The living Gods who made the Nords a note worthy culture with magic, proper architecture and literacy came back from the dead and everybody just tried to kill them. Ulfric isn't traditionalist enough if you ask me.
Let’s not forget Ulfric actually refers to you as “the dragonborn” where as no one in the imperials notes that you’re the most powerful being in Skyrim at the time XD
@@alfonsocarlossoler5371 well thats not true even in the slightest. Skyrim is quite poorly executed in this regard. Dragonborn is the integral center of the empire. The Septim Bloodline were Dragonborn. Empire has merely been 200 years without a septim yet the empire has forgotten that the Dragonborn is the Emperors blood. Basicly Dragonborn appearing is something entire Tamriel should revere since the dark times fallen on it since fall of the septims, yet only ones who make note of it are Imperial Nords, stormcloaks and avarage nords. Whose reaction is more to kin to "heh" than any actual reverence. Hell even Thalmor recognize Dragonborn more than the Empire which is a huge oversight in the writing
@@MasonStevens9863 Yes that matters so much in a jaded empire that doesnt trust it's own emperor after surrendering. And by name change the entire tamriel would just poof forget about the entire Septim bloodline and it's significance. Septims were chosen to serve as the realms leaders by Akatosh. Who exactly do you think would step up and say "Well akhtually it's the mede empire" while that bald fuck was stabbed to death on his boat.
Actually Galmor tells you that he will only send an initiate to the serpent stone to kill an ice wraith if he is not sure about them or if the risk of them turning on the Stormcloaks is worth it. In fact Ulfric says that anyone can fight for the Stormcloaks and not all of them are put through the initiation process
Talos the mighty! Talos the unerring! Talos the unassailable! To you we give praise! We are but maggots, writhing in the filth of our own corruption! While you have ascended from the dung of mortality, and now walk among the stars! But you were once man! Aye! And as man, you said, "Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you."Aye, love. Love! Even as man, great Talos cherished us. For he saw in us, in each of us, the future of Skyrim! The future of Tamriel! And there it is, friends! The ugly truth! We are the children of man! Talos is the true god of man! Ascended from flesh, to rule the realm of spirit! The very idea is inconceivable to our Elven overlords! Sharing the heavens with us? With man? Ha! They can barely tolerate our presence on earth! Today, they take away your faith. But what of tomorrow? What then? Do the elves take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? Your very lives? And what does the Empire do? Nothing! Nay, worse than nothing! The Imperial machine enforces the will of the Thalmor! Against its own people! So rise up! Rise up, children of the Empire! Rise up, Stormcloaks! Embrace the word of mighty Talos, he who is both man and Divine! For we are the children of man! And we shall inherit both the heavens and the earth! And we, not the Elves or their toadies, will rule Skyrim! Forever! Terrible and powerful Talos! We, your unworthy servants, give praise! For only through your grace and benevolence may we truly reach enlightenment! And deserve our praise you do, for we are one! Ere you ascended and the Eight became Nine, you walked among us, great Talos, not as god, but as man! Trust in me, Whiterun! Trust in the words of Heimskr! For I am the chosen of Talos! I alone have been anointed by the Ninth to spread his holy word!
Why fight for the Stormcloaks? 1) For Talos! (Which is to say in support of traditional Nord culture & life.) 2) He challenged the King fairly. (See above) 3) Ulfric may be a sleeping Thalmor asset, but the system is such that another Nord (particularly the Dragonborn) could challenge his supremacy. (Back to number one....) 4) If Hammerfell can fight off the Thalmor, so can Skyrim. 5) The Empire allows Thalmor agents to abduct & execute Nords they suspect of being in violation of the Concordat. When armed officers of a foreign power can dismiss sovereignty & attempt to subjugate a people, it is the duty of the people to fight them. (Draw what analogies you will to current world politics.) 6) Don't give Maven Black-briar more power. 7) Any chance to bloody the noses of the milk drinkers in Softitude is a good enough reason. Does anyone else find it amazing we're still playing the game more than five years later?
John Harrison You do know that a part of Talos founded the empire right? If you joined the stormcloaks you're basically destroying what Talos has created his legacy just destroyed by you? Yeah long live Talos while destroying his legacy
Perhaps. Could it also be honoring the intent of the gardener by pruning the tree? The last time I checked, the Empire was no longer connected to the Septim line. Also, in most playthroughs the player also assassinates the current head of the Empire. More moral disambiguity, please.
1) Imperials let you worship Talos, just not openly. 2) He did beat the High King fairly. 3) No, the system is that the Jarls have to chose the High King through the Moot. All the Jarls either support Ulfric or fear him, so he'll win. 4) Hammerfell has the most gifted warriors in Tamriel, sword-singers, cannons, plus extra troops the AD didn't expect. Skyrim can barely fight off the Empire, and that wasn't even their whole army. The AD will crush them. 5) This is bad, but they have no choice. Also, the Empire is trying to grow their forces and fight the Thalmor. 6) Agreed, but sometimes you have to make compromises for the greater good. 7) I personally enjoy slaughtering the racists in Shithelm. Yeah I do find it amazing, it's a great game to have lasted so long.
Corrections: They only made u (the dragon born) kill an ice wraith that's not normal for any of the recruits, and High king torigg says himself when u meat him in soverngarde that it was a duel not a straight up killing. Cmon fudgemuppet Smh
If you and I agree that at any point in our lives, we can take a knife and shove it into each other's back repeatedly, we can do that. Now that doesn't mean to anyone watching, it isn't senseless. Brutal. Pointless. Etc Additionally, you and I may be in a city where it's illegal to repeatedly shove a knife into someone's back until they die. Beyond that still, there are great swaths of people that believe it's immoral, even under accepted terms, to shove knives into someone's back until they die. So even if you and I see everything happening in one way, that doesn't mean it has to be accepted as right or lawful or moral by others. Cheers.
The Empire is only a bread crumb of whats left of the past Empire, The Rebellion is a thing that proved the Imperials should've asked Skyrim for it's such staunch warriors and Hammerfell for it's strong yokudan swordsingers, as well as High Rock for their Breton Magisters to defeat the Thalmor and target Valenwood while Skyrim can use Hammerfell and Skyrim's Fleet to besiege and take the following Altmer Cities: Firsthold, and Skywatch, to continue to defeat and destroy the Aldmeri Dominion and turn them from real to folklore.
Yeah, all hail Ulfric, the true High King of Skyrim. The same said "True High King of Skyrim" who foolishly walked into an Imperial ambush and surrendered meekly to the Imperials instead of fighting in “victory or Sovngarde” style.
I'm still not sure why I made a redguard and joined the stormcloaks. Even they asked why do u want to join. I'm just like.... Ur guess is as good as mine. Also ... Damn elves.
This video just changed my perspective on Stormcloaks, I thought they were mostly racist and arrogant (like the Elves) but Ulfric had every right to do what he did.
@@Ojajjajaj Buddy, the Empire doesn't directly rule over Skyrim like that; not even pre-Great War. That decision was made solely by the Nordic rulers and their xenophobia. The Empire has nothing to do with that.
With the sheer depths that the Thalmor sank their claws into the already weakened empire (compared to the days of Uriel VII) I honestly thought it best to side with the Stormcloaks. Having always played it as using them and garnering the peoples' love for the mythical Dovahkiin to begin bringing a hard reset to the empire and sometimes even playing it to bring a proper descendant of the dragon blood to the throne where a true Tamrielic emperor can work on the reclamation and reforging of the empire.
indeed and maybe the dragon born can unite the provinces as there own self governed state were they aid the new empire but it only a dream the best we could get is the Alliances
The truth in the matter is that as soon as you join stormcloaks(and funnily enough stormcloak camps are hostile and tell you to fuck off until you join them) you begin to notice just how its a house of cards, Ulfric can barely lead his own city and by the time you join he is more fixated on making songs and historic stands. It becomes very clear that SC are willing to live for 4 seconds to worship talos publicly vs Empire that is regaining its strength from the forst great war, entertaining the thalmor on surface level who are hellbent in dividing the empire. Talos was the first emperor and the worship was banned only to appease the thalmor and buy time, yet the majority of SC troops are more motivated by the ban than by Stormcloak. In otherwords they are fixated on Talos and will follow anyone who will stand for it. Even after imperial victory most Stormcloak supporters say they will just wait for the next nord to stand up and say "Lets start a war for talos".
@@_NutcasE_ you’re a fucking retard bruh Ulfric is literally AT WAR it’s the exact same with General Tullius and Jarl Elesif and no the Stormcloak camps aren’t hostile at all they just have no dialogue it’s the exact same with the Imperial camps you deluded cunt 😂
@@_NutcasE_ so God help us if you ever end up responsible for other people or for a community because if that’s what you’ve got against Ulfric and the Stormcloaks then fucking hell, that community is doomed under your stupidity 😂
trying is not enough tho, not against the Thalmor. The Stormcloak are all just sucidalists trying to go to Sovengard, the Empire is the faction that is taking care of the living.
@@kaleidoscope3234 The Empire is letting the Thalmor roam free in Skyrim, and allow them political power to kill/torture/kidnap anybody they damn well please. The Empire is betraying the very same citizens they swore to protect! At least the Stormcloaks are killing them to stop them from doing more internal damage to Skyrim.
@@MasonStevens9863 which part in the game the stormcloak killing the Thalmor??? The Thalmor still roaming and killing people after Ulfric take over, so I don't get your point. It's proven Ulfric is the one who helped Elenwen and her goons getting into Skyrim and Stormcloaks are close allies with Thalmor, so stfu you elf hugger.
@@kaleidoscope3234 Close allies? You gotta be either trolling or dumb as hell lol. Ulfric and Galmar both say they're going to go to war with the Thalmor after they rebuild Skyrim. And in cut Civil War content Galmar kills Ondelemar in Markarth. And even in the base game, all Thalmor are gone from Markarth after you take it. The Thalmor are committing heinous crimes against the people of Skyrim and the Empire is holding the door open for them. So stfu Thalmor boot licker, and go wither away with your coward Empire.
@@MasonStevens9863 lmao cut content ain't cannon, there is a reason it's cut from the game. If Stormcloak were meant to fight the elves then devs wouldn't have cut the only scene they are fighting them. The Thalmor committing heinous crimes against people of Skyrim with the aid of Ulfric Stormcloak so stfu elf hugger
I usually go stormcloaks but then I went empire my most recent game and I killed Ulfric didnt feel great about it, then when I went to sovngard to kill alduin I saw Ulfric there and it made me feel even worse
first time playing I played as an imperial and then I met him in Sovngarde and I just kind of went: oh. I felt really bad after that for some reason... and then I played through the Stormcloaks and I've been a Stormcloak ever since.
Alex Rothman Ah so long and you still don't understand the lore enough to understand how bethesda essentially made the Stormcloaks the worst possible faction to join in the game
how though the empire is unimportant compared to Talos and the maintenance of the towers. the empire is literally just one empire which periodically fall and come back every 1000 years or so.
A new war against the Aldmeri Dominion it's inevitable , they are just wainting to the better oportunity , when this happens humanity have much more chance to survive fighting together than splitting like the Stomcloaks want . The Empire almost lost the Great war using the army from Cyrodill , High Rock , Hammerfell and Skyrim and with the ''help'' of Talos , I don't understand why some people think that Skyrim alone (and with a weak Talos) could survive the Domion .
I slightly respect the Empire but I prefer the Stormcloaks, also I play as an Imperial so that must be Ironic Edit: Can’t believe I once supported the Stormcloaks 4 years ago lol
Even if my playthrough is as a character who does side with the empire, i still go with Ralof at the beginning because nothing is more satisfying than killing that captain who orders you to be executed for no reason even though you werent on the list
If Skyrim is independant she could ally with Hammerfell and Morrowind bc they both realy dislike the Empire, plus Redguard albeit different share a warrior culture meaning they could get along quite well. Also Skyrim welcomed many dumer refugees going as far as to give them solstheim back. Finally there's already been a Nord-Dunmeri alliance the Ebonheart pact so we know they can cast their differences aside when needed.
But isn't "the supreme Jarl Ulfric" racist towards Dunmer? he has his own section of Windhelm for them and when you first go there two Nords are harassing a Dunmer woman because they (the Dunmer in Windhelm) won't choose a side in the war.
They both hate the aldmeri dominion and the thalmors. Plus their culture albeit differents are both based on martial arts and honours they are both distrustful of magic and elves due to their history and both were more or less abandoned by the Empire
Well if I recall well he did not made the decree of giving the former snow quarter (now the grey quarter) to the dunmers, he is only enforcing that law. Plus I don't think they are force to remain in the grey quarter because Nyraniye the altmer merchant lives in another quarter and I'll guess that being the same race as the thalmors she suffered a bit of a bias at first. Moreover she states that she has no problems and that the dunmers owe their conditiion to their misplaced pride, and I am enclined to believe her, since the if you don't include the beggar and Rolf you don't see very much bias overall in the Hold (there are even succesful dunmer mechants and farmers). Moreover when the great eruption occured the Empire abandoned Morrowind letting it vulnerable and didn't offer any help when the argonia invaded the dunmer homeland. Whereas Skyrim's Nords welcomed refugees in Riften, Eastmarch, going so far as to give them full ownership of the Solstheim island. Finally the dunmers traditionally hate the altmer, that's why they became the chimer in the first pale because of their disdain for aldmer's culture which evolved into the altmer. PS: They succesfully allied with the nords during the Ebonheart pact albeit their rivalry and inimity were even greater as they used to often battle each other before.
Did you know the Redguards and Nords fought against each other during War of Bend'r-Mahk some 600 years ago? Hammerfell just experienced Haymon Camoran or the Camoran Usurper taking advantage of the disunity between the Crowns and Forebears to invade the weakened Hammerfell. After the Camoran Usurper's invasion, the further weakened Hammerfell faced the Nords from Skyrim. The Crowns and Forebears was too caught up with their hatred for each other to face the Nords properly. It ended up with Elinhir and half of Dragonstar captured by Skyrim. So if you think Hammerfell is going to step in and help Skyrim, you're mistaken. The Ebonheart pact being reinstated is even less likely, as at present the Argonians are fighting the Dunmer. That fight is still going on, there’s no way they would stop and work together suddenly. Furthermore the Stormcloaks aren't known for strong relationship with Dark Elves and Argonians.
I fight for the True Sons of Skyrim, and the True High King! ... Imperials may not be the bad guys, but they work for them, Ulfric's building an Alliance to oppose the Thalmor is the kind of unity Tamriel needs.
See? It's crazy. I was able to see your comment here by clicking on your profile picture in the other comment section. I can see this being a step towards a much more communal environment here.
the stormcloaks are a large militia the empire is a military organization with ranks and discipline...they are going to treat you like a soldier because you are one you would get similar treatment in the real life military...also only one imperial tried to get you killed because she was lazy and didn't care about protocol and guess what she dies either by your hand or the stormcloaks.
Taco Libre the Stormcloaks only treat you like a brother if you're a nord, and that is also a sign of a bad army. They have no discipline and would be crushed under a single proper legion if the emperor would allow one to be sent to skyrim.
I'm a stormcloak in my heart. But, after several times playing Skyrim with a righteous and honorable character, who fight for the stormcloaks, I'm playing right now with a treacherous and evil character, who betrails the stormcloaks and give the Jagged Crown to General Tulius and join the Legion.
The imperials were awesome, before they bent their knees to what's basically the third reach. I support not the Stormcloaks, but the end of Thalmor operatives in Skyrim.
While I love your videos, I find it a little odd that you didn't give both sides of the story to the Ulfric-Torygg duel. Some people claim Ulfric's shout tore Toryyg apart, but from Ulfric's own mouth he says that isn't how it happened, that his shout was more of just proof that Torygg was weak, and that his sword piercing his heart is what killed him.
Having played both story's twice, yes twice I really can't look back at choosing imperial. Like the stormcloak story is far better and more satisfying, and it just makes sense. Cuz you know....fuck the elves
The Thalmor think that Ulfric is an asset, but they could they predict that the Dragonborn will ride alongside him? I picture that dragonbone-clad master of the Thu'um, smiting those damn elves with Storm Call, Summon Ohdavin, Summon Duvenir, and Unrelenting Force.
I always imagined that after the events in Skyrim, the Empire makes peace with the Stormcloaks, while also secretly aiding them with supplies and training so that they can both renew a war with the Aldmeri Dominion. When it's all said and done, they're the biggest enemy in that era and would probably rule the world if given a chance.
Even if my playthrough is as a character who does side with the empire, i still go with Ralof at the beginning because nothing is more satisfying than killing that captain who orders you to be executed for no reason even though you werent on the list. vengeance is sweet.
It doesn't matter if you hate them or not. We are definitely going to see more of the Stormcloaks in future games. Why would Betheasda even bother creating them and giving them so much lore if they were only going to scrap them a game later?
HumanOfPrey I don't expect them to be a present or joinable faction again, but in the background of the games we always hear what is going on in the rest of the world. We never never seen any of the races of Akarir but we still know they exist and what they are up to.
Maybe in the next game, just to extend their power, the Stormcloaks may invade that unconfirmed province and try to conquer it. Of course, that's just my theory.
We all once supported the Empire from Oblivion but this new "Mede Empire" is a disgusting remnant of greatness. Skyrim will remove the Imperial lap dogs and rebuild and rearm and prepare for the next and final War with the Elves. Under the leadership of High King Ulfric I we will prevail to Absolute victory!
You're discounting the fact Ulfric himself says the Stormcloaks cannot fight the entire Empire in an open invasion. Should you attempt to attack Solitude while the Dark Brotherhood quest "Bound Until Death" is active, you're met with this direct quote from Ulfric: "We're ready to march on Solitude, but the Emperor's cousin is getting married! If royal blood was spilt, all of Cyrodiil would be up in arms. We can't afford an all out war with the Empire. So we'll bide our time for now." If he admits he couldn't face a full invasion from the Empire, what real chance does he have against the Dominion (who I might also add, includes forces from Summerset Isle, Valenwood and Elsweyr)? This is Ulfric, in-game saying he could not take on Imperial forces alone. This is FACT.
+HumanOfPrey First off, Ulfric does not want a war with the Empire. He only wants independence for Skyrim because of the Talos ban, and Imperialism of a dying Empire, and because the Thalmor have free reign to kidnap people and haul them off to Northwatch Prison, Solitude, the Embassy, or to Aldmeri controlled provinces. Ulfric is like Donald Trump. He wants to make Skyrim great again. He is a true Nationalist, and true Nord. Also, Ulfric will build up the Stormcloak army after the Civil War, and forge alliances with Hammerfell. He also mentions High Rock sending soldiers and aid to him. The Nords that support the weak Empire are like the Scandinavian Nords in real life that are cucked beta males, feminists, and globalists. Not true Nords at all. *ALSO* the Thalmor want to eradicate Talos worship to fulfill an agenda to kill all men, and deactivate the Towers that keep Mundus stable, and usher in Landfall, or C0DA so the Altmer can be gods again. They *CANNOT* be allowed to eradicate Talos worship, like they most likely already have done in Cyrodiil, and almost certainly in Valenwood, Summerset, and other places they control, and other places in the Empire like High Rock. Ulfric is the Resistance to tyranny. If the Thalmor succeed, kiss the Nords, Imperials, Bretons, and Redguards goodbye. There is not going to be any more humans in the TES universe, because they will be extinct, but first, they have to get rid of Talos worship to make Talos weaker, because he is basically the guardian of the human races. In all honestly, I am surprised they did not try to ban the worship of Shor/Lorkhan either because the Nords, and Bretons venerate Shor/Sheor/Lorkhan, but Talos mantled Lorkhan, so Shor/Lorkhan is Talos, because Talos mantled Shor, so he basically is Shor, so technically they did ban the worship of Shor they just did not mention it that way because it is another aspect kind of like how Akatosh, and Auriel are the same. The Thalmor cannot be allowed to deactivate the remaining towers, but the Imperials don't care because they surrendered. It is better to die heroically in a war, than surrender. It is better to fight to the last man, than give up. Play TES Legends, and you will see just how evil Lord Naarifin was. He re-opened an Oblivion gate in the White Gold Tower to fulfill the Cunning Prophecy. After playing Legends, I cannot help but view the Thalmor in an even more negative way than I already was. The emperor did *NOT* fight back against the Thalmor and lead the charge in the Battle of the Red Ring. The Forgotten Hero did. Titus Mede II gave his armor and weapons to the Forgotten Hero, so everyone thought the Forgotten Hero was the emperor totally unaware that he was not. Only Naarifin, the emperor, and the Forgotten Hero's companions knew the truth. They fooled everybody, even the author of the in game book, The Great War. The Aldmeri Dominion in the fourth era is not the same as the one from ESO. The one from ESO was good, and had good intentions, albeit slightly racist towards humans, but not that bad, and not near as evil as the Third Dominion who want to unmake creation because they believe they will become gods. If I lived in the TES universe, I'd be a Stormcloak myself just to fight the Thalmor after I get done with the Pussy sellout Mede Empire. The Mede Empire is illegitimate anyway because there is no Dragonborn ruler, and the Septim Dynasty no longer exists. I miss the glorious empire from Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion. The Mede Empire is better than the Empire of Cyrodiil from the Interregnum in ESO, who sold out to Molag Bal, and the Worm Cult, but not near as good as the Septim, Reman, or even the Alessian Empire. Hammerfell fought the Dominion and kept on after the Empire betrayed them by allowed the Thalmor to rule certain sections of Hammerfell. The Redguards saw that as betrayal, and rebelled, and kept fighting the Thalmor. Hammerfell can Ulfric can forge an alliance. Ulfric also mentions High Rock sending soldiers to his cause. Any human with any guts should support Ulfric, not just Nords. Hell, even elves who love Mundus, and Nirn should support Ulfric, because the Dominion want to unmake it by deactivating the Towers. I feel bad for the Altmer Dissidents in the Night of Green Fire. Even Malborn says his Wood Elf cousins get purged regularly by the Thalmor, for not supporting them. The Dominion was just as weak as the Empire when the war ended. One final assault would have gotten rid of the Thalmor from Cyrodiil. Like I said, better to die to the last man heroically, than to surrender and be a slave. To quote Patrick Henry from real life "Give me liberty, or give me death!" Surrender is *NOT* an option! Would you rather die heroically in war, or die a starving slave, or in a gulag, or concentration camp? One last thing, you say that Ulfric should not have protested the Talos ban because he brought the Thalmor to Skyrim by doing that. Apply that logic to real life and try banning something concerning Christianity, Judaism, or Islamic, and see what happens. Try banning the hijab in a traditional Muslim country, and see if a real life "Islamic Ulfric/Rebel/Freedom Fighter" does not make a fuss about it. Try banning the worship of Jesus Christ, or Yahweh in real life. Do it, and see what happens. Try banning some sort of religion in real life, and see if you do not get a social backlash. *PLEASE try.* Hell in real life, if you go after evil abortionists you get a massive feminist protest, but that is a different discussion for another day. Used to, you'd get a bloody revolution just for raising taxes on *TEA* of all things, and get all that tea tossed in the Boston Harbor because they did not want to pay high taxes. They were Nationalist all the way.
Valerious Catastros 1) Ulfric does not want a war with the Empire? Give me a break, boy. Ulfric doesn’t want independence either or else he would simply ask the high king for it. He wants the throne. Hence why he betrayed the Greybeards. Hence why he betrayed the Empire. Hence why he aided the Thalmor. Hence why he killed his King. And hence why he doesn't accept Whiterun's neutrality, nor a fair moot. And what is a "true Nord" for you? 2) Ulfric is the cause of the entire Talos ban being enforced in Skyrim, prior to the Markarth Incident there weren't any Thalmor in Skyrim. 3) Ulfric is indeed Trump, he wants to make Skyrim great FOR THE NORDS ONLY. Ulfric's viewpoint is a Skyrim for the Nords, and Nords only. That's why the Stormcloaks keep yelling ''Skyrim belongs to the Nords''. 4) If you honestly think that Hammerfell will ally with the Stormcloaks you haven't heard of their national pride and the cities of Dragonstar and Elinhir. 5) Highrock is an Imperial province so STOP saying they will send soldiers or they support Ulfric. 6) The Empire weak, dying… Except when even Ulfric knows he can't win a fight in a full scale invasion with the Empire. 7) The Thalmor destroying the towers, c0da and Landfall are fanfics created by Michael Kirkbride and he no longer has a say in where the Elder Scrolls series goes since he no longer works for Bethesda. Nothing that MK says is canon unless Bethesda decides to add it to the game lore. 8) The main reason the Thalmor banned Talos worship is to enrage the Nords, not because of this crap of destroying towers. 9) As Tacitus once said: "He that fights and runs away, May turn and fight another day; But he that is in battle slain, Will never rise to fight again”. So you rather die than fight? Typical of a Stormcloak fanboy. 10) Ulfric is a racist, believing that a nation should be ruled by insert race is racist because your race doesn't matter in terms of rulership. Ulfric wants to kick the elves out of Skyrim, how is that not racist? Ulfric segregates people because of their race, how is that not racist? Don't use game mechanics as an argument in a rushed game. 11) Ulfric can forge alliances? You know Ulfric’s way of diplomacy: “side with me or face my army” .You are to naive to ally with an asshole like Ulfric. 12) The Dominion could have won the Great War, with or without the Forgotten Hero. "Only by signing the peace treaty known as the White-Gold Concordat was the Empire able to survive the onslaught of the high elven Aldmeri Dominion, and thus end the Great War." Loading screen 13) The only reason the Redguards pushed the Dominion out of Hammerfell was because of the IMPERIAL LEGION'S actions during and after the Battle of Skaven. Without the actions of Imperial general Decianus, the Redguards would not have had a chance against the Dominion. 14) And to quote another person in real life "freedom is not free" You need to learn more about the Great War and the events that lead to the civil war because it's crystal clear you know NOTHING.
+HumanOfPrey Ulfric wants to be High King because he wants to serve his people, the Nords. He said himself that he fights for the people. He fights because he has to. Ulfric challenging Torygg and proof that Torygg could not fight is proof that Torygg is weak regardless of how Ulfric killed him. How can a king defend his country if he cannot defend himself? You clearly have no understanding of Nordic culture. Even IRL the ancient Scandinavian Nords in Sweden, and Norway were like this. They were proud warriors and vikings. You had to be a *MAN* to be a king. Not a milk drinker, or a boy. Ulfric shouting Torygg just surprised him, and knocked him down, so Ulfric could stab him. Ulfric used the Thu'um because the ancient Nordic heroes also used it, and it would revive Nordic nationalism for them to see a challenger, and revolutionary using the the Thu'um. Also, the Greybeards do not condemn using the Thu'um for violence, they say it should be a last resort, and it has greater uses other than violence, but they shout you to death if you try to hurt them. However, the Greybeards are the only ones teaching the Thu'um in the fourth era, besides a few dragons, so they basically have a monopoly on it, and you have to subscribe to the Way of the Voice in order to learn the Thu'um unless you are a Dragonborn. Talos did not listen to the Greybeards. If he did, he would not have founded the Empire, because they teach pacifism. Reman did not listen to them either, nor did Ysmir Wulftharth. Jurgen Windcaller only created the order because he lost a war, most likely they lost because the Dwemer had advanced technology, (duh) and the Chimer were allied with them. Not because the Nords abused the Thu'um. That is a ridiculous theory that Jurgen made, if anything, the Thu'um helped them. Ulfric did not accept Whiterun's neutrality, because he wanted Balgruuf to join his side. The Empire and Ulfric both harassed him constantly. But then he finally gave in and joined the Empire. The Empire harassed him just as much. It just doesn't show it in game, but the Empire did the same thing as Ulfric. General Tulius even got pissed because Balgruuf would not make a decision to join the Empire sooner. He was complaining to Rikke about it, and she had to explain to him that you cannot force a Nord to do anything. If Balgruuf accepted Ulfric's axe, it would have meant peace. It was purely symbolic. If Balgruuf wanted peace, he could have just accepted the ax. It did not mean he had to join Ulfric's side. It was basically asking "are you peaceful?" Will you accept this as a peace offering?" Balgruuf himself was struggling with the decision to join the war. "General Tulius will tell you that I owe my loyalty to the Empire. Perhaps this is true. Ulfric Stormcloak will tell you that I owe my allegiance to the Nordic people and help fight for Skyrim's independence. Perhaps this is also true. The day may come where I am *forced* to draw my sword to one side or the other. But that day has not come yet." Finally, he gave in to the Imperials, because he did not accept Ulfric's peace offering. Again, Ulfric protesting the Talos ban was completely logical. Let's apply this to real life and ban the worship of Jesus Christ, and see if somebody does not make a fuss about it. Talos is the Elder Scrolls equivalent of a Messiah. He is the equivalent of Jesus Second Coming and uniting the world together as one, and getting rid of all evil people, and punishing evil people, and overthrowing all the governments and setting up his throne in New Jerusalem and reigning as king of the world. Your logic falls apart when you compare in game religion to real life religions. If a new country analogous to the Thalmor from Skyrim rose up and conquered a bunch of Islamic nations and banned the worship of Allah, don't you think the Muslims would be *PISSED OFF?* They'd have a real life Islamic Ulfric in mere days. You cannot trample on religious freedom and expect nothing bad to happen or everybody to go along with it regardless of how politically, economically, or militarily strong, or weak you are. The Empire accepting the peace treaty was them surrendering to a bunch of mongols. IRL people in barbaric Islamic nations always complain about Sharia Law. You think they like that stuff? Of course not! They want to leave! To me, you sound like someone who only cares about status quo. That is what the Empire in Skyrim is. All they care about is status quo. You just seem to go with the flow, and not give two shits. If aliens invaded Earth, and enslaved humans, you'd just go with the flow, and not give a fuck most likely. Your logic: "That's fine, you can castrate me as long as I get to live, and you leave my weak ass government alone." You can ban Islam and Christianity, I will just conform to your norms because we signed a "New World Concordat, just don't hurt meh, plz." The fact that the emperor did not really lead the charge against the dominion proves he is weak. His military camp got destroyed by Bosmer assassins of all things working for the Thalmor. Could not even stop a bunch of assassins and he was left wounded, so he asked the Forgotten Hero to wear his armor into battle. TES is full of restoration magic, and healing potions that can instantly cure broken legs, and side wounds. Just chug an Ultimate Health Potion, or expert level Restoration spell. Surely, with you being the emperor, you are *supposed* to be surrounded by generals, master swordsmen, archers, master healers, spell casters, and blacksmiths. Pure *LOGIC* Ralof, and Galmar both confirm that you do not have to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim. They want you to be true to the cause because they are not looking for mercenaries. I have only encountered one racist Nord in Windhelm. There are two Dark Elves there living great lives not complaining like the others are, one of them owns a farm. There is even a high elf in the city living quite well and comfortably without a lot of harassment. High elves are hated more by Stormcloaks than Dark Elves, and they don't persecute her. The Dunmer in the Gray Quarter allowed it to get dirty. One of them has skooma, another one is an Imperial spy, and one of them tried to sabotage the East Empire Company with pirates. As for the Argonians, they cannot enter the city due to the Dark Elves, and because there is no room. Dark Elves and Argonians hate each other. As for the Khajiit, they cannot enter any major Skyrim city, even cities controlled by the Empire. In Riften, the Argonians do not have much trouble. They work in the fishery, and the meadery. The Redguards are *HUMANS* like the Nords. The Nords are much more sympathetic to them, and supportive. The Redguards and the Nords have *TWO* common enemies. A desperate empire, and a nation of arrogant elves believing themselves to be gods and superior to men. They can easily put aside their differences. Also, it Ulfric wins, High Rock gets cut off from Imperial control, unless they use ships to go around Hammerfell. High Rock is full of petty kingdoms always bickering. If supply lines are cut, the Bretons will want to secede. Stop praising High Rock as a loyal province. The Bretons are always fighting each other as petty city states. No doubt, a Stormcloak victory will give some Breton kingdoms like Shornhelm, and Camlorn for example, some ideas especially since supplies are cut, and there are always lazy welfare people no matter where you are relying on foreign goods, and not self made goods. Supply lines being cut would trigger a worker's revolution, or create labor unions in High Rock to get people to go to work. Of course this is hypothetical, but very probable. Watch the Fudgemuppet video titled "Why the Empire will fail." It is doomed to crumble even if they win the Skyrim Civil War. You are defending a dying empire. Just let it go. It is on life support. Cut the line, and kill it. The Dominion will have a hard time taking control of any human territory except for certain parts of Cyrodiil. No human would want to live under Dominion rule. You are just going to create a bunch of black market assassin guilds like the Dark Brotherhood, and give power to banditry, and drive humans underground. You think the Talos worshipers will just disappear? They will just go underground and create secret societies. In Morrowind there was a Talos cult who wanted to kill Uriel VII, and members of the Imperial Legion were in it. In fact, it was started by Legion members. They wanted to get rid of Uriel VII to get a stronger emperor like Tiber Septim on the Throne because Talos is the god of War in TES. Perhaps one of Uriel's heirs was a war hawk, or pro-war. If the Ebonheart Pact worked, then an alliance between Nords and Redguards could work. Dunmer, Nords, and Argonians hate each other even more, yet they allied to fight the Akavir. Why do you think something like that won't happen again, this time with fellow human races who have two common enemies? It'd be even easier. To respond to your quotes. Yes, I'd rather die than be a slave. Escaping to fight another day is one thing, but slavery is another. I know what I would do if my religion was banned. I'd become an extremist. As a Christian, I am prepared to die for Jesus. Also, look at ISIS. America created ISIS for creating instability in the Middle East. We created Islamic rebels, just like the Thalmor created Skyrim rebels in The Elder Scrolls. If you were religious, and your religion got trampled on, I bet you would become a rebel, or extremist as well. Religion is important to people. It is never acceptable to ban a religion regardless of how strong, or weak you are. The Thalmor doesn't want a Stormcloak or Imperial victory. Both would hinder the Thalmor. They want Skyrim to stay in a civil war. On one hand, an Imperial win would make the Empire stronger, on the other, a rebel win would create a nation full of Thalmor hating, right wing nationalists who hate elves.
I’d like a mod that makes the stormcloaks share a religion with the skaal. I feel like that would be waay more significant and line up with the real Roman persecution of Christians
At first I was a Stormcloak because the didn't try to execute to death in the beginning. Then I realised that I could never side with the Imperials because I am rather work harder for earning the respect of others than lose my head because I believe in the "wrong" thing :P
Regardless of how you chose to fight in the war I am having trouble imagining how Bethesda will handle the results of the war. I imagine a dragon break will take place that allows both possibilities to both be true before coalescing into the same timeline. But like most mortals I cannot comprehend how this could be possible. It'll be cool to find out.
Torygg was killed by the Voice, this is a fact, loading screens, Hold guards, Torygg, Stentor and Elisif all say so. Of course the murderer won't admit to his murder.
elder scrolls 6 plot the 2nd great war with the dragonborn leading the charge to wipe pout the aldmeri dominion and with the dragons on his side and wuuthrad on his back the elves will burn along with the white gold concordat.
Heroes disappear after their events. By the time a Second Great War can rear its head, the Dragonborn will be long gone. This has been the case with every Hero, and for good out-of-setting reasons: Writers cannot account for every player's characterisation of a particular Hero. Some players' Dragonborn may be Thalmor sympathisers or Altmeri Supremacists.
There should seriously be an option where you can either join the Aldemeri Dominion or fight against just as with the Stormcloaks and Imperials when quests appears about what side you should join to fight for.
Ulfric's hypocracy-Calls Imperials puppets for arresting him at Markarth after he commited genocide on the Reachmen and forced them into the hills,but was sent to Markarth in the first place as a Thalmor puppet
@Mekel Reen, for all it's faults the old Septim empire was relatively peaceful for over three centuries; disrupting that in the name of nationalism seems unjustified. The Thalmor exploited the oblivion crisis, using lies, trickery and open racism to bring massive war and death. Ultimately they are the enemy of Tamriel. The new Cyrodiil empire is weak, and caved to Thalmor demands; they won't fight them. A Forsworn rebellion doesn't help fight the Thalmor either. But a Stormcloak rebellion (presumably allying Skyrim with mighty Hammerfell, and perhaps convincing High Rock to join them) might defeat or at least help counter the Thalmor's power.
the Civil War quest line is so stupid in terms of missions and fun it does not matter what so ever which faction you join. I think the Stormcloaks goal however contradicts itself. If the Empire which has more troops and a larger economic basis cannot defeat the Dominion (even though they made a comeback at the end which prevented them from being fully annexed, but not enough to win) then how can the Stormcloaks with less of everything win on their own? Realistically they would want to reform the Empire not secede from it. Their war goal should be to oust the current Imperial government but keep close relations with Cyrodil so the might of Skyrim and the rest of the Empire could be used to fight the dominion.
I think they follow the example of Hammerfell. They rebelled from the Empire and fought the Dominion and did just fine. If you think that the Stormcloaks might have the help of the Dragonborn, their chances of defeating the Dominion are bigger than the Empire alone.
Skyrim needs to be rule by the strong. I watched many times on the road when 3 stormcloacks vs 3 imperials fight. The Stormcloacks always kill the imperials. And I dont like em Ulfric is a true leader to reubild Skyrim in to a trune Nord homeland!
People who like the Stormcloaks seem understand the lore the Elder Scrolls way better. If Skyrim were more than a rebellion, and be revolution. It might be possible Nords might put a Dragon Born (Not Dragonborn, the one with the inert ability to rule not thu'um) back to power instead the Council who are "true" power in Cyrodiil with the Emperor as puppet. Also, the Nordic Pantheon may be restore to power which is good as well. There also economic reasons why Skyrim should become militaristic again as Bethesda put in the details of their crumbling walls under their Imperial-ization. Even ruins seem to look better than abandon forts. Skyrim is inbetween the 4 most prosperous nations and the imperial constantly opposes their raiding even if it's necessary! Like 3/4th of Skyrim is inhabitable and it's breadbasket province is terrorize by Reachmen. The Empire doesn't actually protect Skyrim. They exploit Skyrim. Those in the Imperial side think that if Skyrim were to comply, the Empire will invade Summerset. Don't kid yourself. The Empire is a political mess going in a down spire with the Gods behind them. Ever since the Necromancer in second era?, the Empire could not be save. Even Talos himself said in Morrowind as Wulf said that it's probably time for something new to replace it because they been in a downturn before ES:Daggerfall even began.
yeah no Tullius specifically say's the empire will fight the dominion after you finish the war, also the the true dragonborn would still be behind the empire not a council if you fight for the stormcloacks it's ulfric simply an apprentice greybeard not the literal dragonborn who leads the stormcloacks the Emporer isn't the puppet of the council, he seeks aid from them and the nordic pantheon was before talos therefore the whole "talos be with you" stuff is overruled and everyone who just wanted to worship talos now has to worship kyne and shor and stuff and if they ally with anyone it would be difficult at best for say the redguards to understand shor and talos and be respectful of all of it, and when it comes to the whole "crumbling walls" thing, what do you expect from a nation that is going through a war? yeah sure the imperials aren't perfect in this but the stormcloacks certainly aren't helping by throwing firebombs at strongholds every hour or so imagine what cyrodill looks like it being it being the forefront of the great war and all, and give me one citation of the empire being opposed too looting or raiding and with the whole forsworn thing you know who could have stopped the forsworn from staying active? thonar silver blood and you know who thonar supports? stormcloacks if he hadn't have done his little corrupt scheme with the Bretons madanach would have died and the forsworn would be a snake without a head if anything he is the one stopping the raiding albeit somewhat indirectly some nord takes down a forsworn camp madanach is in the back recruiting more and more and more, and if you really want to talk about how the imperials are the only ones corrupt take a look at riften stormcloack allied through and through ran by a puppet jarl too a corrupt imperial buisnesswoman entire town lives in complete fear of robbery and the town guard are bribed everytime someone reports anything underneath is the thieves guild sure they may be under bad lucky but that isn't because a strong stormcloack is destroying their business it's because they got cursed by a deadric prince, and i might be misunderstanding some things at points because of grammar, but i don't see how the entire empire couldn't be saved because some necromancer in the second era, also talos wasn't in morrowind and wulf was just some imperial bet with an opinion, an american vet can say "the government should be replaced" all the livelong day but that doesn't mean it really should
+TacticalFaceplm The Stormcloaks fight for that continuation of Aurbis while the Thalmor scheme to end it. I don't see why anyone would think the Empire can comprise between the two. It's important to realize not all Altmer are Thalmor and they'll fight themselves at one point. Hopefully, by that point, the Stormcloaks will come for support this anti-Thalmor rebellion after ending the Empire. And just a footnote, the Nordic Pantheon is stronger and more interventionist the imperial one. Kyne puts Kynareth to shame. Talos, Shor, Tsun, and Stuhn are all protectors of humanity. Everything will be fine. A lot of underestimate the power Aedra except for Akatosh, but that shard of Aka is all about being impartial. He's not very helpful.
UnpredictableSB Bullshit; you'll fight for the stormcloaks if you're a nord (or perhaps a redguard), otherwise it makes no sense. Say I play any other race, why would I fight for a race who doesn't really like me?
I've had this debate many times so I'm gonna keep it short and sweet here. Stormcloaks are demonized far more than they should be and I personally believe they'd have a much greater chance than most give them credit for.
It’s really just a big miscommunication between the citizens of Skyrim and Titus Mede, all he had to was let them know that this is not permanent and only a means to an end.
