Slaughter or Liberation?: A Debate on Russia's Role in the Syrian War & the Fall of Aleppo 

Why doesn't Human Rights Watch want to talk about Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen?

Stephen Cohen nailed it.

Kenneth Roth is an infantile liar.

Mr. Stephen Cohen Thank You

God bless you Mr.Cohen

we are being lied too again to justify escalation.

Debating 101: If your point starts with an ad hominem attack like "lets get back to reality" it loses all credibility and need not be made. Cohen is clearly much more interested in reality than his opponent.

omg, you're taking situation updates from White Helmets?! holy crap

This kind of BIASED 'reporting' is what stopped me from watching democracynow

Roth has no credibility. Has taken money from Saudi Arabia and has claimed that Hezbollah killed more people in Gaza than Israel!! Shill for the Sunni war against the Shia. A liar who is now justifying Al-Qaeda in Aleppo

Stephen Cohen is the voice of sanity - the Syrian people will be grateful to you for telling the truth.

Kenneth Roth cites the Institute for the Study of War as his source on the bombings in Aleppo. Kimberly Kagan is a founder and leader, along with her husband Robert Kagan. Why would he use ISW as a source? ISW is a promoter and propagandist for all things Pentagon. Robert was one on the co-founders of the Project for the New American Century, the "leadership" body for a world dominated by only one power the US of A. Kenneth Ross's use of ISW should qualify him as voice of the US government, which is not an NGO, something that Human Rights Watch pretends, and poorly so, to be.

I agree with Cohen on Russia and the stupidity of the USA to get involved in Syria.

Stephen Cohen is such a brilliant observer and giving us the much desired skeptical, contrarian position and asking important questions that the established media has largely refused to ask even though it would have been there job to do so.

Assad said Syria wouldn't participate in a very big deal pipeline. he said this in 2009. plans to remove him started there. the pipeline he refused is a long time planned one that would put Saudi arabia and America at great advantage into the far future. The SA/US pipeline was also supposed to cut off access to Europe for Russia for their gas and oil. The CIA were in Syria from 2009/10.

That white helmet guy is lying. He keeps looking to his right.

My sympathies are with all innocent victims of any war.

Btw the white helmets are actually a military force that are killers.

RIP professor.Cohen

Never trust anyone who says: "we know exactly what's going on"

Please interview Canadian Journalist, Eva Bartlett, on this issue.

roth is a flatout liar

this HRW person is ridiculous

I think you should be asking the same question about our American role in the Syrian conflict. look a little deeper than this kind of propaganda to get that side of the story

And, Democracy Now, could you explain what this story is titled "the fall of Aleppo"? Are you saying liberating the city from Al Qaida is a "fall"? Smh

Notice how carefully this news presentation is written, 0.18 “Some of the first major peaceful protests against Assad’s rule broke out in Aleppo in March 2011, but today the city is in shambles after 4 years of fighting between Syria and rebel groups”. Notice how they conflate “major peaceful protestors” and “rebel groups”, never mentioning the terrorist groups that make up most of the Anglo-American mercenaries that are attempting to overthrow Assad. Well done, that should keep the other Oligarchs happy. As for the White Helmets, I believe they have already been discredited as CIA and MI6 funded propaganda machines and Samantha Power is a joke. What’s the problem; couldn’t find another daughter of a Kuwaiti Ambassador to spread lies like in the lead up to Iraq. Have you ever wondered how many “Useful Idiots of Empire” remain that still believe your propaganda. From the comments I read, not many. At least I thank you for allowing Steven Cohen to present the facts; that must have hurt. It was also interesting to see Human Rights Watch represented even though this entity, like most Orwellian named NGOs (e.g. National Endowment for Democracy) that are used to destabilize Anglo-American targeted nations, is main function is to spread propaganda and introduce bias. Human Rights Watch also has a Wikipedia page dedicated to it called, “Criticism of Human Rights Watch”; it’s worth a read and might give you some insight into the structure of the deception they peddle. Maybe Human Rights Watch can give Assad some advice on how to cover up war crimes; they have covered up enough for the US. If you “accidentally” bomb a Medecins Sans Frontieres hospital in Afghanistan or "mow the grass" in Palestine, just call it an accident due to the “Fog of War” and like most militant thugs around the planet will let them investigate themselves to achieve justice. That does work so effectively; doesn’t it?

The guy talking from Aleppo was reading froma script??!

Democracy Now????? My foot is laughing.

At least 1 guy is speaking the truth

Thank you Prof Cohen, for this information....

congrats Stephen Cohen for balance arguments

How this man Roth can look into anybody's eyes with those superlies?

The war cannot win without people support. Winning side has people support for sure esp for prolong war.USA should had learned that lesson since Vietnam war..

TRUTH(Stephen Cohen) EXPLAINING FACTS, FACTS SUPPORTING TRUTH!

All around victory Professor Cohen.

Prof. Cohen is amazing.

It doesn't matter to me what anyone says, all I know is people, civilian families, are being murdered and/or displaced from their homes. What is in Syria that is more valuable than these people that can justify these horrific human rights violations. What does Russia getting out of this that can justify its blatant disregard for human life?

Funny I don't recall Mr. Roth ever condemning Israel's bloodbath in Gaza

steven cohen is absoutly logical and truthful

You can tell when Roth is creating a false narrative... he speeds up, and looks at the floor. Check it out.

I'm glad Mr Cohen pointed out the language change also done by Amy Goodman, who sold out years ago. Now she plays the compassionate liberal and supports US military interventions. The crap from the White Helmets about executions is laughable, and she doesn't call out this bull.

Stephen Cohen was wrong to dismiss the information of Human Rights Watch as baseless. He knew better.

Mr.Cohen spoke the truth and even put "democracy now" on its place. Please bring him back it was a fresh of breath air to listen someone like him.

Did he say there is no isis in syria?

Goodman, take heed. That paralyzed face you had a while ago was karma for "reporting" like this.

Stephen Cohen speaks common sense. Roth is clearly propagandist.

Human rights?! What about the human rights for the Palestinians? What about American committing atrocities in the Iraq war and illegal attack on Libya? And the Saudi atrocities on the Yemen people?

"Occasionally going into Syria", says it all.

How can there be such differing viewpoints? And it sounds like Cohen really does not disagree that Roth could be correct. He's just a skeptic.

Love Stephen Cohen!!!! The other guy sounds like more American propaganda!!!

Human Rights Watch has lost even the last shred of credibility and dignity. It's completely shameful. The guy repeats every piece of unsopported and unproved accusations that basically came from pro-militia activists.

What an odd position of Mr Roth. Mixing arguments going till call the real appalling prison conditions in Syria and stay quiet about the most illegal prison Guantanamo- just for one example

So, this debate is basically ‘we know what happened and our next actions are clear’ vs ‘we actually don’t know whats happening and we’re making moves as if we do know’ am I missing anything? Am I safe to assume that part of Cohen’s allure is the confidence (I would say pompous attitude) in the things he say?

This obviously was posted in response to Eva Bartlett's testimony at the UN, but yet you don't mention that testimony. Very cowardly. And I used to love Amy and DN.

Thumps up for Dr Cohen!

case was closed a while back: liberation with inevitable civilian casualties, because it's a damned warzone...and what state actor(s) are at fault for that? (hint: it ain't Syria or Russia)

This is hard to watch because while they talk people are being killed. So sad. But, I do really appreciate these two men talking with civility toward one another. I have watched way too much mainstream news in my life!!! This is how you have a conversation.

Is there anyway to fight an urban war without civilians being harmed? Certainly, there are ways to prevent it but when you have families living with fighters you have a big problem. I don't understand this idea of mixing fighters and families.

Is there another part to this interview?

this is pathetic... i can find 100 who will say that "rebels" are executing anyone who wanna go out from alepo. is that truth then? if that hrw can get some evidence and help people, not target certain side. and finally, from what background are those rebels? professional soldiers and policemen or they was civilians who took arms? and aren't those civilians ones who support and aid those "rebels"? you guys hear about word WAR? you know its meaning?

What about the corridors?. Why didn't they use corridors?.

Kenneth Roth, member of Council on Foreign Relations. Stephen F. Cohen, member of Council on Foreign Relations.

@19:22 Cohen: "One person's war crime is another person's liberation." @20:33 Roth: "Let's get back to reality here." Well done Mr. Roth. I would not have been able to put up with Cohen's sophistry as well as you did.

Here's the real story of Syria's 'rebel forces': 21stcenturywire.com/2016/12/16/reports-at-least-10-nato-military-officers-captured-by-syrian-special-forces-this-morning-in-east-aleppo-bunker/

Aah, yes, the mythical “moderate opposition” that included radical jihadists.

Way to go Steven !!

many of our us presidents should be punished not just Obama.

the white helmet is a farce

why when the second debater Stephen F. Cohen talks we see traumatic images full screen and his face small and when the second debaer speaks we see his face full screen?

i hate when people point fingers .....and give no solution ....when we all know who started this shit.....and it sure was not the syrian people.....

The situation is a huge clusterfuck. The amount of foreign involvement has turned this civil war into a massive proxy conflict. It doesn't help that pretty much all remnants of the "moderate" rebels from the beginning of the war are now replaced with radical jihadists. There should be no excuse for the actions for Assad either as I am sure those who've been paying attention since the beginning know how the government opened fire into protestors against the regime among other repression. His execution of medical personnel and indiscriminate bombing of civilians is also horrific. In order to see the bigger picture I think you need to look at situations like the Syrian Civil War amorally, as to not allow your tears for one thing or another cover up what is really happening although this goes for both Assad and rebel supporters.

At least you are providing two viewpoints now but your stance on the role of the rebels has been woefully slanted. I'm disappointed in your reporting on this topic, Amy.

While we hear that the civilians in East Aleppo are trapped, being bombed, and executed, we see video images of large masses of those same civilians walking out of the same area where according to the words we hear they are being trapped, bombed, and executed, fleeing to West Aleppo where the Syrian army is. Speaking of an audio/graphic contradiction. A real cognitive dissonance. Then it comes down to what you want to believe: the words spoken of someone who isn't there, or the cameraman who shot the video evidence. It is true those people were trapped as human shields, bombed with rockets and grenades, including with chlorine gas, and executed (and many more than 82 of them) by by the terrorists who are now being presented as the victims. Many were raped and beheaded by these "rebels" who are mostly foreign mercenary, jihadi-terrorists. But the MSM won't show that. Only the alternative news sites. Just search for: "Syria White Helmets: Humanitarians or "Executioners"?"

Rest In Peace Mr. Cohen

Hi mr. Roth how about Yemen children and women ?

Bravo Stephen Cohen

Now, a year since this interview was published, Aleppo is liberated from ISIS and so is most of Syria. Syrian people are returning back to their homes and celebrating. Dear Kenneth, please post a message here accepting how wrong or how dishonest you were and apologize to all of us for trying to mislead us and spreading fake news. Thank you.

Why is the date Dec 14, 2016?

Thanks, Democracy Now!:)

Lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies lies

to him saying bombin of institutions are being undertaken, he forgets to mention that terrorists and rebels (legitimate or illegitimate) dont follow any rules of warfare, using those institutions as bases and to attack from, ive seen this many times in the middle east, but what happens most often is that both sides break rules

Thank you Dr Cohen for being open and honest

Human Rights Watch lost all its credibility.

kenneth roth be real ,,,, white helmet is not the real information ...

Democracy Now, we all know you are a Gate-Keeper.

Roth and Cohen says it all. Democracy now is sinking so low.

As we listen to the news emmanating from Mariupol today 3/29 2022.

It's neither slaughter nor fall. It's called the Liberation of Aleppo.

My eyes tell me this is destruction, not liberation.

I'm fucking sick and tired of being the bad guy and the villain because my government is fucked up As Americans we should feel bad we let our government get like this because if we actually got off our asses we could do things in our government stop stating the obvious educate yourselves get involved we talk about how everyone has rights everyone feels like a victims in the u.s.. apparently we don't know what a victims is till we get outside the us . and see what our govt has done. us being victimized by our own govt isnt enough just because we kept Hillary out which is good isn't enough Trump isn't enough I have a feeling the Trump supporters and us are going to be betrayed by him and we can not turn our back on them because they're Americans we all made mistakes with politics if I'm wrong I'll apologize I have a feeling it's not going to turn out that way

Ms Goodman, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Kenneth Roth you definitely not defending human rights your just accusing others based on false information. i believe you should let someone else to do dthe job

It's Stephen's Cohen clear win in the discussion. Shame on you, Kenneth Roth from Human Rights Watch!

The government forces secured 95% of Aleppo, the rest 5% probably where all the hospitals schools are. They also mentioned there are "hundreds of thousands"civilian, that make that 5% of Aleppo the most populated area in the world.

There are question marks around the white helmets now, some say they're totally discredited.

What are your facts that support that that statement. Name calling is not very convincing.

Roth is no more than a propagandist.

The path to a peaceful Syria doesn't include ISIS, Al Nusra or Assad. Hence why a path to a peaceful Syria doesn't exist.

Fantastic rebuttal to the hysterical accusations by the regime change propagandists. My utmost respect for Mr. Cohen.

Once SAA started to attack rebels and al qaeda in e. Aleppo, the rebels and the terrorists were morally and legally obligated to let all civilians go who wanted to leave e. Aleppo and had to have sent all children and their mothers to safe regions. So, the blood is on their hands for such a criminal act. But the West also has blood of civilians on its hands for not screaming at the terrorists for not forcing civilians to leave e.aleppo.