SLIP TEST - Subaru Forester SG - manual vs XT automatic - VCD vs VTD / VDC -  

Enlighten us, which is it and what is he doing wrong?

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I think they were being sarcastic... a joke. it's kinda funny!

@@q2subzero I get quite a lot of such comments from people that don't understand the test thus I think it was serious...

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers He might mean if that the manual used the low gear? Maybe.

@@TheDeathlyBullet He doesn't know what he meant, no response.

You must see Tesla on rollers :)

@@Daniel_Kro Tesla + Range Discovery 3 and 4. :)

Lol so easy, it make it look boring

Too bad it's only 4 gears.

I don't understand what I just watched so which is better auto or manual

what means "mid power"?

not too slow not too quick.. think stock cars under 35k .. hmmmm?

Also the man' can do front wheel burnouts easier than the auto (in light rain)

I own 04 fxt auto and manual both, the manual gets snow tires in the winter, I’ve never needed anything other than all season for the auto, even with vf39 “stage 3” swap (STi stage 2), auto never has any traction issues, manual seems to need to hunt for traction a bit more, which can be fun, but slower around the autox track on mixed tarmac and loose road

@@bmoore8853 the manual ones are awesome. Faster than the auto too.

@@bmoore8853 lucky. I have only got a manual one lol wish i could collect those cars in different trims. The 06' 2.5xt is so fun to slide on snowy roads!

It would probably be a similar result. The issue isn't power, it's how the power gets directed to the wheels with traction. As fun as it is driving with a manual, the automatics have a better version of the Symmetrical AWD system. VTD makes a huge difference. That said, it's a real hoot to drive around with a manual XT though.

It probably is, it's trying to do something...It's just not a strong enough LSD. Most older foresters have LSD in the back

Which year model. My 2006 JDM is a 4eat (TV version). I also haven't noted any VTD.

It will be included in one of next videos. Edit: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hhBL1kLCN9Y.html

This particular manual is missing VDC, that makes major difference.

I know mine is a manual, but I have Hi-LOW like the old 4x4's I used to drive, which is an advantage, but advantage for the manual, as the clutch is tiny, so LOW range helps. I would be so happy to have the VDC together with the viscus that changes power between front and rear with huge margin. I am 39 and ever since I was a teenager and the early TC/ESP came out, I was wondering why BMW or Benz aren't using the break on the spinning wheel, cars started using it years later. This what VDC does right, it applies breaks on the wheel that lets the power spin out of (it's the early X-Drive system, No?) I've seen a RAV4 doing well with same system as X drive on 2023 model, but the Subaru is utilizing it better due to the symmetrical axels/AWD. I just couldn't spent the 2.5XT money in 2010 and got since Subaru are behind on some other tech, the Automatic was 4 gears, a 4 gear auto on the 150hp Forester would be a suicide, it's slow enough with 5@@4x4.tests.on.rollers

@@Valdismith Benz was one of the first to use brakes (traction control), Bmw also did it before Subaru and before xDrive debuted. And it was quite effective system. I'm not sure what you mean by Rav4 with the same system as xDrive, they are very different. When it comes to Subaru - majority of their new cars are missing center diff, there's clutch pack shifting power from front to back.

Cześć, dzięki :) Co do S-AWD - w zasadzie niezależnie, który rodzaj rozpatrzymy - jest to najwyższa półka. Oczywiście Subaru nie jest samo na tej półce, ale te napędy nie zawodzą.

Temat jest trochę bardziej skomplikowany niż tylko MT vs AT. Przy skrzyni automatycznej występują dwa rodzaje S-AWD, kluczowe jest także to, czy VDC jest na pokładzie.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers takie pytanko, czy można jakoś wizualnie rozróżnić gdzie jest s-awd a gdzie vdc ?

@@igwarden5404 Nie bardzo rozumiem, o co pytasz, S-AWD jest wszędzie 🙂

@@4x4.tests.on.rollersniestety nie znam się na rzeczach

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers ok to jak można wizualnie sprawdzić czy jest VDC ?

I'll do my best 🙂

Manual ma silnik 2.0 i nie ma blokady tylnego mostu, jak by był w wersji turbo to radził by sobie tak samo jak automat

Thanks! Why would you want a manual?

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I love the control more, brakes last way longer when you know how to down shift. Sliding around in the snow is more controlled BUT I will say your video showed how much better automatic it is getting out of spots.

@@cliftonsargent1572 I see. The difference here comes mainly from VDC, manual doesn't have it.

Same here. Had a manual XT 2.5, blew the engine a couple of times and I now own an auto XT 2.0(older, non VDC sadly). Auto is way better off-road but I miss the control of the manual a lot when driving on road...

And TG also known as 5eat.

@@ValtersPelns 5 gear on SG9?

I have a 2006 SG9 FXT with 4EAT. I has LSD in the rear axle.

The XT Sports are worth a lot in both AT and MT.

Agree 😁 Thanks!

The difference comes mainly from VDC on board.

No it doesnt. Main difference is vlsd in rear diff.

@@xxaba1989xx Main difference comes from VDC. Rear vlsd helps of course but not that much in this case.

LSD doesn't make any difference here. VDC does.

LSD isn't doing much here. VDC is much more important.

Most Foresters have the LSD(auto and manual). It's just weak, it doesnt transfer much power to the other wheel.

Forester S Auto probably has the VTD awd system, great solution with slightly rwd balance. Manual Forester or Outback has VCD awd system, less advanced than VTD but still very capable.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers do you reckon any >10 yo Subaru matches that Jeep “one wheel” capability?

@@penponds Well, the 2.5 XT which you can see here passed all tests.

Thank you! More videos with Subaru coming soon, including live OBD data during the test so we can see what awd system is doing.

Thanks 🙂 Test on three rollers coming soon!

that is kings level

Cześć, szczegółów nie znam, natomiast wszystkie wspomniane wersje na pewno mają centralny dyfer ze sprzęgłem wisko.

We tried that in Rav4 with similar awd system, didn't help: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AP98iNAbuVI.html

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers These manual foresters have viscous coupling in center and sometimes rear diff - does Rav4 too?

@@ach.1980 Both tested cars had front and rear open diffs, both had center differential with viscous coupling.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Ok. My 2.0X and 2.5XT both had viscous coupling in rear diff also.

Why do you think, that manual could be better in mud?

@@anonim1133 sure it depends just manual could use full throtle where VDC can just limit your throtlle because it would think its too much wheel spin. TC off helps some sure.

@@MrScalman Sure, VDC limits throttle a lot, but there is a button to disable it. So... Lock 1st gear, disable VDC, and the world is yours :P

@@anonim1133 tc off not vdc off. It still uses brake on wheels just wont cut the power. Abs still works too.

Would you say getting a model with VDC is worth it? I’m wanting an 08 forester

@@xxaba1989xx R160 27020AA050

This is about power distribution, not about acceleration or towing a trailer.

It's not the point of MT but a lack of VDC on board. MT equipped with VDC would perform different.

Grafika poglądowa.

2.5 doesn't have visco. It has electronically controlled center diff.

@D F Yes, that's exactly what we show in the test.

@D F There is no official information about it - could find it in car manual, or internet. So it is no wonder, that not everybody knows it ;-)

Tak jest, cztero-biegowy tylko, niestety.

@@KrzysiekNie lepszy taki niż cvt

cinek505241513 w zyciu nie. Czterobiegowy automat to padaka, mialem w Forku i Outbacku. Cieszylby moze w 1999. 5 biegowy 5EAT jest duzo szybszy i lepszy, ale w 2020 juz i tak brakuje biegow.

@@rommel17pl Może nie jest to kozak skrzynia, ale żeby padaka to mocno powiedziane. Sprawnie działa, szczególnie w forku SG - w SF był wyraźnie wolniejszy, ale może to też kwestia olejów była. No ale fakt, że 4 biegi to nie za wiele jednak...

@@anonim1133 padaka przy 5EAT. 5EAT dopiero sprawnie dziala...

Thanks! This is about two different AWD systems - Viscous Center Differential vs Variable Torque Distribution.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thanks for the prompt attention. Does that mean only the 2.5 version counts with VCD feature, then?

@@ricardolb VCD is combined with manual transmission. Automatics have VTD or ACT-4, depends on version.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers viscous center diferential is also the simetrical awd?

@@dimosgeorgiou4503 Yes, Subaru cars with manual transmissions have S-AWD viscous center differential.

XT is nice but it can have engine issues...

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers as all can, you personally is VCD worth it?

@@mercenary1485 There are much more reliable engines than 2.5T. But in this case it's not only the matter of VDC but also VTD, which manual doesn't have. In terms of performance - definitely worth it. In terms of maintenance costs - definitely not. Edit: don't confuse the names VCD and VDC, these are different things.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers yeah my bad on the typo, thank you by the way, I’ll probably get the XT Limited just for the added boost of performance off road and on

2.0 X is not equipped with VDC. No electronics for awd system.

Both are basic AWD system with almost no electronics. The olsy difference is that the XT has rear lsd

@@headless7345 No, AWD system of XT is almost entirely electronically controlled (center diff with clutch-pack + VDC).

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers is that only the automatic or the manual is the same?

@@headless7345 Manuals have VCD system. Automatics may have ACT-4 system or VTD system.

Hill stop feature has nothing to do with this test and I doubt that the car was even equipped with that.

Nie mam informacji na ten temat, ale w komentarzach znajdziesz właściciela, można dopytać 🙂

Its VDT vs VCD test manuał doesn't have VDT

I know what you mean but actually AWD is 4x4. The only *formal* classification is J1952 by SAE, AWD name is on top of all others. Hill stop feature has nothing to do with this test and I doubt that the car was even equipped with that.

Unfortunately no.

Hej, wyłączone jest ESP, ale kontrola trakcji pozostaje aktywna. Tak jest w większości samochodów, TC w ogóle nie można wyłączyć.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers zaraz 😁 na odwrót to tak, ale jak jest wyłącznik, to z reguły kontroli trakcji po to, by np jechać po śniegu, piachu itp. Jeśli czegoś wyłączyć nie można to prędzej właśnie ESP niż TC 🤔

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers natomiast to co napisałem cholernie kłóci się z tym co widzę na Twoich filmach, gdzie przy wyłączonym ESP auta mają lepszą trakcję 🤨 co tez jest delikatnie nielogiczne

@@marcinobodzinski52 No właśnie nie 🙂 W większości przypadków jest tak, że po wyłączeniu ESP komputer nie ingeruje w obroty silnika, ale układ hamulcowy cały czas pozostaje aktywny.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers no dobra, większość to pojęcie dość względne. Ale rozbiłeś mi teraz rzeczywistość i muszę się upić 🤣

You can find it on my channel!

pajakbartek właśnie miałem o to zapytać 😊

2.0 X nie podchodził do trzech rolek z oczywistych względów. 2.5 XT na trzech rolkach będzie w kolejnym teście 🙂

4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel prośba o rozwiniecie tych „oczywistych względów” 😊

@@Xxxoddam 2.0 X nie ma żadnych układów odpowiadających za rozdzielenie momentu pomiędzy lewą a prawą stroną 🙂 W zasadzie to i wynik na dwóch rolkach był oczywisty przed testem 🙂

4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel dziękuje

Cały czas kontrola trakcji, z reguły nie da się jej wyłączyć.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers rozumiem,... po prostu nie da się jej w 100% wyłączyć.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers model z manualem nie ma kontroli trakcji?

@@adamjanisiak3119 Nie ma...

Zawsze byłem za automatami 😉, dzięki i pozdrawiam.

Ale tylko na 1 biegu - a i to w sumie chyba nigdzie oficjalnej informacji czy spina 50/50 czy jak.

Trzeba sprecyzować, o jakim rozkładzie mowa. Manual ma bazowo 50/50, automat 45/55. Zakres manuala to 80/20-20/80, ale układ ten nie ma możliwości pełnego zblokowania centralnego dyfra. Automat ma taką możliwość, steruje tym komputer, choć - jak widać w teście - na pierwszym biegu dyfer jest zblokowany.

It is the same generation. XT wins cause it has VDC, turbo isn't an important factor.

Przetestować na rolkach 😉 Jaka dokładnie wersja i skrzynia?

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers SG przedlift 2004 AT 2,5 wolnossak USA

@@GLOVVACZ A ma przycisk VDC/ESP? Cztery biegi? Wolnossak to raczej ACT-4.

4x4 tests on rollers - duszaniespokojna channel 4EAT, ale chyba tylko XT mial VDC.

@@rommel17pl Pytanie było o awd. Przy 2.5 wolnossącym ze skrzynią 4EAT obstawiam ACT-4, nie VTD.

Dopytamy właściciela :)

Też chętnie się dowiem, ciekawi mnie ten kolor bo ładnie się prezentuje.

Variable Torque Distribution. Planetary gear center differential with clutch-pack.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you...what other subarus have that?

@@emanuelmontes6634 All with 5EAT transmission. And WRX with CVT.

@@4x4.tests.on.rollers but forester have 4AT right?...

@@emanuelmontes6634 Yes, this one here has 4EAT but it is XT, it also has VTD. I don't what other models with 4EAT have VTD, I suppose the most powerful ones.

There is no flooring, max speed ~25 km/h. Manual doesn't have VDC, that should explain your doubts.

Są dwa rodzaje S-AWD dla automatów, więc pewnie mówili o tym drugim 😉

@Tadeusz Dabrowski ACT-4, zwany też ATS. Ogólnie uznawany za gorszy, bo nie ma centralnego mechanizmu różnicowego, tylna oś napędzana jest sprzęgłem (jak w układach z haldexem). Obecnie Subaru stosuje w zasadzie tylko ten rodzaj (wyjątkiem są modele sportowe). W mojej ocenie - w dzisiejszych czasach układ ten niczym nie ustępuje innym.

What do you mean?

Everything is on the screen.