Smash Bros. Comeback Mechanics Are Out of Control

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Kazuya from Tekken is the latest fighter in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to have a comeback mechanic. Are Sakurai and the Smash team going too far? What even is a comeback mechanic? Let's discuss!
0:00 - Rage Drive
0:44 - Aura
1:18 - Diamond, Waft, Revenge, and K.O Punch
3:20 - Arsene and GO!
4:28 - Rage in Smash
5:23 - Hidden Comeback Mechanics?
6:46 - Limit Break and One Winged Angel
7:16 - Closing Thoughts
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Опубликовано:

15 июн 2024

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Комментарии : 136

@bageltoo 2 года назад

I wish my Dad had a “come back” mechanic

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

This is my favorite comment on this video

@thesandkingdom 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash hey

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

@@thesandkingdom hey

@LuigiOne12 2 года назад

@@thesandkingdom heeeeeeeey

@AshenDemon 2 года назад

@@LuigiOne12 HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY Okay I'll shut the hell up because I'm like 7 months late.

@donutdome 2 года назад

Biggest Comeback Mechanic: Ivysaur down b to side b

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

This is painfully accurate

@OrangeToadGamer 2 года назад

Playing with comeback mechanics: 😀 Playing against comeback mechanics: 😐

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

It's so true it hurts

@larryflaco8320 2 года назад

There's an option in Ultimate rule settings called Underdog boost Which is basically ultimate rage but a bit worse

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

OH YEAH I FORGOT ABOUT THAT. Dang that would've made for such a good joke in the video too NOOOOOOOO

@castform7 2 года назад

I have never gotten Aura's transition to Smash. In Pokemon, it just allowed it to feel the energy of others and stuff. Here it stregthens him when greatly wounded, which it's never been even aluded to do. At least Pichu has the Pokedex talking about how it gets hurt when using electricity. The closest reason I can think of is to fit a certain *theme* with Lucario. A theme around Lucario being a martial artist that gets stronger when fighting, has a stronger form to tap into, has a Final Smash that shoots a giant blue beam and is voiced by Sean Schemmel. If you couldn't tell, I was comparing him to Goku.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah it really makes no sense from a canonical standpoint for Aura to be a comeback mechanic huh lol

@dustymcwari4468 2 года назад

It’s probably just made up loosely based on his general description, rather than actual info and data from the games or the anime, would make more sense if Pokemon Trainer’s Pokémon and Incineroar had that because they legit have an ability in games and in the anime that boost their attacks when at low health

@SussyBaka_irl 2 года назад

I'm the type of guy to find Lucario's Aura & Terry's Go mechanic to be much scarier than Joker w/ Arsene & 1-Winged Form Sephiroth, despite the latter's being MUCH better. Something about a permanent comeback mechanic in 1 stock is scary to me, ESPECIALLY when you're at a deficit & are forced to approch.🥶

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Sephiroth's is similar to GO! and Aura in that it can be taken away by taking Sephiroth's stock too, but I know what you mean. I'd rather camp out Arsene than have to interact with Aura or GO! any day

@SussyBaka_irl 2 года назад

Sephiroth is quite similar to Go, however once he takes your stock, the Wing dissipates for the entire stock, meanwhile Terry only losses Go when he dies & what's worse is that Terry can reliably combo his Go Specials from a lot of his combo starters at early %, effectively offering him a significant head start too. Aura is just too cheesy imo & though it's definitely predictable, it's not on a timer like Arsene is & won't disappear after taking a certain amount of damage, like with Kazuya's Rage, so it's threat is always looming & you have to approch & kill Lucario to nullify its presence, which those players aware of & will do whatever they can to force you to whif punish & lose stocks as early as 60%. Arsene is in my experience a lot easier to handle, because the 7.0. nerfs make the hit & run strategy against Arsene extremely affective at diminishing the rebellion guage quickly & safely. Especially with Sonic whose Spin Charge combo's alone can reliably drain half of the Arsene timer & his movement capabilities can allow him to consistently remain out of reach from Joker's range.

@PhantomAarantula 2 года назад

Okay that joke with SpongeBob and Mr. Krabs laughing at Little Mac actually got me good.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

You can never go wrong with SpongeBob references :)

@castform7 2 года назад

Comeback mechanics (especially the bad ones) are like Double Team from Pokemon. Fun when *you* have it but so much of a nightmare when others have it, you'd probably prefer it to not be there. I'm mostly fine with comeback mechanics since they've never really made me feel like I got punished for winning (cause I'm not really what you call "good at the game") but I do understand the problems people have with them.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

"Fun when you have it but so much of a nightmare when others have it" is the best way that I've ever heard comeback mechanics described lol. When it comes to Smash I only really feel punished for winning when Go! and Aura are out to play

@BigRigCreates 2 года назад

I am BigRig and I approve of this take

@penguinpng-gj1lr 2 года назад

Double team is such trash. Just attack em you'll hit eventually. A total waste

@BigRigCreates 2 года назад

Time to sabotage the comment section by saying Incineroar doesn't have a comeback mechanic - just a gimmick. Please fight below.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

No one else has mentioned in the comments that it's not a comeback mechanic yet besides you :eyes:

@andymcclurg9916 2 года назад

Incineroar's moveset is well balanced with Revenge. He's a pitifully slow grappler that intimidates you the whole game until he gets in. Revenge forces more interaction from the opponent who relies on shield a lot, which leads to a powerful kill throw or command grab.

@shirshobanerjee7751 2 года назад

So cat zangief?

@gio_setsuna 2 года назад

Thing about getting buried is real? I'm surprised no one talks about it

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah it was mentioned on twitter a couple months back after someone found it but that's about it

@StockeTepes 2 года назад

Really glad to finally see a video about this topic! While I don’t hate comeback mechanics it can certainly hinder my experience depending on the situation. It seems they are becoming more and more common in fighting games, I don’t think we’ll be seeing the end of them anytime soon

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Comeback mechanics seem to be the fighting game solution for making the games more beginner friendly or adding extra drama to matches at the very least. I could do without them, but they're not going anywhere

@ZX_STH 2 года назад

It's fun to take peoples stocks at 40% tho, So having a pocket Lucario is pretty fun.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I don't care how bad Lucario is in Ultimate, that character will ALWAYS terrify me

@andymcclurg9916 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash At least the Lucario playerbase is smaller than Nintendo's library bundle with online service.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

@@andymcclurg9916 LMAO TRUE. I'm so glad that character doesn't exist in ultimate

@moosesues8887 2 года назад

@@andymcclurg9916 there a damn library??

@marikevangroning1603 2 года назад

Why not just play Ganondorf then

@sonicthehedge 2 года назад

Hero probably has the most calm comeback mechanic. At best it can increase whack's instant kill % by 10%-30% but you have to be like at 300% in which would be nearly impossible not to mention the opponent instant kill % will still be 1% if they are at have less than 20% damage, nothing changes that 1%

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Mhmm, a comeback mechanic that requires rng just to pick the move and then another round of rng to see if the move works is definitely less frustrating than a lot of the other comeback mechanics lol

@Antonio-is2cn 2 года назад

Imagine if Paper Mario joins Smash and his "comeback mechanic" is "Danger Mario" basically the more he is at a disadvantage it causes the opponents' attacks miss more often and his attack power is multiplied by 0.6

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

This is way too good of an idea Love it for the homage to his games and imagine how mad the other players would get LOL

@st4pps 2 года назад

How tf am I just finding ur channel? Ima put this in my GREATEST FGC PLAYLIST OF ALL TIME.

@HELLRAISER02 2 года назад

I never liked comeback mechanics in serious play, just make a raw comeback, which is part of why i hate macs KO punch, and i still use it or try to get rid of ir

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah I could definitely do without them but learning how to deal with them is part of playing the game at the end of the day. Little Mac being able to guess right and kill you at 20% by pressing B will never be fun though lol

@HELLRAISER02 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash its not even fun to land i just dont want KO punch, i like straight lunge more,oh well

@andymcclurg9916 2 года назад

@@HELLRAISER02 He's too polarizing to be fun and in my opinion should be either heavily reworked or demoted to an Assist Trophy. Maybe a new, more balance Punch Out representative could take his place like Glass Joe or Mr. Sandman.

@HELLRAISER02 2 года назад

@@andymcclurg9916 joe? No Just get rid of KO punch as a comeback and give him aerials, while removing armor on smashes and then hed be much more fine

@nah_man78 2 года назад

@@HELLRAISER02 I've seen a Little Mac concept on Rivals of Aether (a platform fighter with custom support). Instead of a K.O. meter, instead he gains stars by landing combos or his counter, which can be used to enhance his specials.

@ketzalo7005 2 года назад

Sick video, just discover your channel, absolutely suscribing right now.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Thank you so, I really appreciate it! Lots of videos like this already on the channel if you wanna see more of them :)

@andymcclurg9916 2 года назад

I don't think characters like Sephiroth, Joker or especially Kazuya need a comeback factor. Granted, Kazuya's is pretty tame, but having Rage with the the rest of his absolutely absurd kit isn't well balanced. Joker has a strong neutral without Arsene, so he doesn't need the comeback mechanic either. Sheik plays a lot like Joker but her moves are even weaker than Joker's but she doesn't get an ancient Sheikah Ghost to power up her attacks. Sheik is notorious for her terrible comeback potential so a temporary boost in power when she's on her last stock would help her a lot IMO. I could see people arguing for Sephiroth, but if he had been released with power and speed between his base form and One Winged form, he would have been balanced just fine.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah it seems like they don't give out comeback mechanics to characters that need them, only for characters that have a comeback mechanic that references their games for some reason. I don't get it either lol

@ivrydice0954 2 года назад

Base Joker ain't getting same results. He becomes a worse Sheik legit and can't kill until 120 without his unsafe combo starters lol.

@Lonewolfprime. 2 года назад

Base Joker is a worse version of Shiek when you get people to ko range, which is around 120. He’s more of a hit and run, with many of his combo starters being unsafe to get a kill. That’s where Arsene come in. So yes, Arsene is essential to Joker’s game plan. Arsene is legit the main back horse of his strength, and has counterplay. It’s fair game, especially with the nerf. He goes away at least and joker is forced to go back to his old ways. Sephiroth’s comeback is perfectly balanced, and I for one believe it to be a nice touch. Now GO! and Aura, you can’t make that disappear. There’s no counter play, you *have* to interact. You can’t just camp it out until it goes away.

@TheEmiL99 2 года назад

Bro your videos are great, I can't believe your channel is still small, but ey I hope one day more people can enjoy your videos

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Thank you so much! There's only so much I can do when I work full time and can only get a video or two out a month. Just gotta keep at it and hope the algorithm graces me again one day :)

@gengarguy8801 2 года назад

You forgot to mention Joker's Down B. Legit lets him get Arsene for free if used correctly.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah I definitely goofed by not discussing that at all, it basically gives Joker control of when his comeback mechanic comes out

@Lonewolfprime. 2 года назад

At least you can punish him for it

@cat6833 2 года назад

Sometimes I wonder if some characters need a comeback mechanic, like does kazuya really need rage drive. I like comeback mechanics if they synchronize well with a characters overall kit.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah I go back and forth on Kazuya needing it since he already nets kills so easily without it. Probably just in his moveset as another reference to Tekken but he would be fine without it

@ivrydice0954 2 года назад

Kazuya doesn't have a kill throw until around 170% on most of the cast. So him getting shield camped is a very real threat considering his trouble vs platforms and none of his shield breakers breaking full shields or beating parries. It defo compliments his kit.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I mean Kazuya has a command grab that kills earlier than that and if you do the special input backthrow that thing kills super early at the ledge on characters with poor recoveries while killing everyone around 120ish

@ivrydice0954 2 года назад

That grab is dope, does a lot of damage, sends at a really low angle. I just wish it didn't send so low you could tech it anywhere you would use it unless you're back is to the wall. And outside the corner even like a 1/4 a way from the ledge at FD Sepy really should not be living that move at 150%...

@eleaglexv 2 года назад

With Little Mac, after acquiring the K.O, you get a temporary shield for it for about 5 seconds which doesn't make you lose it from knockback or getting thrown.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yup! It makes sense, otherwise he would get KO punch in the middle of being comboed a lot and lose it immediately

@curesaul5749 2 года назад

I love the thumbnail of Kazuya’s big shoulders.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Thank you, I was really happy with how this thumbnail turned out :) I'd say that I want to look ripped like Kazuya but that would be waaaay too much work lol

@liroanimations5090 2 года назад

Great video as always 👍

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Thanks Bolt! I really appreciate it ^_^ and thanks for watching!

@liroanimations5090 2 года назад

PowPow, can’t wait for the next video! :)

@dagamerbois6069 2 года назад

tbh since most of these mechanics are at short range (rage drive, waft, ko punch, go, revenge, arsene etc.) it just encourages people to either play those characters or play campy to avoid them. I think that they are bad game design because of it. Its a big part of the reason why quickplay is such a nightmare

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah the just make the game less interactive unless they're a comeback mechanic like GO! that never goes away until Terry is dead

@BabyDeath68 2 года назад

Mmmm, Smucker's guitar picks. So tasty.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

They taste like strawberry!

@javisingsmusic9444 2 года назад

LMAOOO LOOK AT HIM CHOKE, LOOK AT HIM SUFFER, that was so good, this video came out great! i can't wait to see what you come up with next!

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I'm glad that I decided to add that in last minute :) thanks man! Can't thank you enough for all of your help with these videos :)

@Rhino-n-Chips Год назад

I gotta say, it's real refreshing that you start the video stating you expected Kazuya's mechanic to be busted, but admit that it's fine. I am so used to videos coasting off a recent example for their bitch-fests, and just shoving a square peg into a round hole. So kudos for not just doubling down on being wrong.

@PowPowSmash Год назад

I pride myself on being someone that's willing to admit when I'm wrong so I'm glad that was refreshing for you! Glad that you enjoyed the video :)

@dextra_24703 2 года назад

Cloud literally just has an Ex-meter.

@ReticularTunic7 2 года назад

it was pretty stupid for sakurai to have terry using a comeback mechanic. Why couldn’t he be based on his latest incarnation which is King of Fighters 14 and uses a the power bar it for super specials ? Tekken 7 did the same with Geese, so why not Terry for smash.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

The power sounds way better than dealing with GO! tbh, but knowing Sakurai he usually bases characters on their classic iterations which is probably why they went with GO! unfortunately

@ReticularTunic7 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash tell that to Kazuya, hes based on his incarnation of Tekken 7.

@rayman9118 2 года назад

Why would they give terry a FATAL FURY CHARACTER WHO REPRESENTS FATAL FURY IN SMASH A MECHANIC FROM KOF THATS LIKE GIVING HIM THE THREE BAR METER FROM FIGHTING EX LAYER SINCE THATS HIS MOST RECENT APPEARANCE AS HE IS A DLC CHARACTER IN THE GAME.

@Lexicon865 2 года назад

I'd say the comeback mechanics in Smash aren't much of a big deal, outside of maybe Lucario's dumb aura mechanic. One-Winged Angel is fine, Rage and Rage Drives are alright, Super Special Moves may stay forever but they are relatively tricky to land anyways so eh (them being 1 and dones would be intriguing though) and meters like Rebel's Guard and Limit are okay. I'd say Little Mac's KO Punch is stupid but I'm just glad it doesn't last forever like it does in Smash 4 (iirc) so eh

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I agree with what you said for the most part besides landing Super Special Moves since Terry has really easy to land moves to combo into them (dtilt to buster wolf or super spotdodge uptilt into power geyser)

@ivrydice0954 2 года назад

Terry's super specials are easy to combo into, but you still have to win neutral and hit specific combo starters and they aren't really safe outside of advantage state. If you're still getting hit GO does nothing for you, and they're both locked behind extra startup while being slow moves in general, with the inputs make it kind of telegraphed when he's going to throw it out from ledge or in neutral. Which is why he said they were hard to land.

@Radiant_Emerald 2 года назад

I'm surprised you didn't mention how Arsene would be Brawl Meta Knight levels of broken if it stayed out until Joker dies.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I definitely should've compared it to GO! in that sense since I was talking about the two mechanics at the same time. WASTED JOKE OPPORTUNITY

@mrkicks7817 2 года назад

I don't really care about comeback mechanics. I just accept that they exist.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

It's probably healthier that way lol

@NeonLightsYT1 2 года назад

Aura is horribly bad at even making a comeback because of the fact Lucario needs to take damage before unleashing his true strength. It needs to be buffed.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I think the biggest issue is they nerfed Luacario's weight in Ultimate so he dies a lot earlier than he should in order to be able to utilize Aura properly. He just needs a weight buff is all

@matthewpipes018 2 года назад

How I see it, the comeback mechanics are a lot more tolerable to deal with while playing offline But online, it's a pain in the ass

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Very true, you can def play against them better offline! Online is so bad lol

@matthewpipes018 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Yup. The lag and the buffer system makes it painful to fight them

@Lonewolfprime. 2 года назад

. Little Mac legit is a flawed character that needs to be reworked completely. He’s just anti-fun to play against, and forces a lame play style for the opponent, and for the player to suffer for it.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Agreed, they should've overhauled his moveset after seeing how degenerate he was in Smash 4 but that didn't happen for some reason

@oa-san53 2 года назад

He's fun to play against, cuz is fun see him trying to recover and fail miserablly

@Lonewolfprime. 2 года назад

@@oa-san53 Okay I gotta admit, seeing little Mac fall to his doom is funny. The rest of the match though is just not fun x-x.

@stephenschuster3555 2 года назад

Waft, mining and revenge are not comeback mechanics

@Emu- 2 года назад

Wow, that's so Meta!

@themarioking7127 2 года назад

Mfw Kazuya has diamond: 😳 *this is a joke*

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Now all of his moves kill really REALLY early

@iceloveanime 2 года назад

I love revenge so much on incineroar. You dealt 77% with that combo you've mind numbingly practice for months on end? uh-oh......you flubbed that perfect Fsmash finish you had planned and hit my revenge. You know what that means riiiiiight?

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

In tournament I died at 30% in the middle of the stage from Revenge-powered Alolan Whip after all he did was Revenge one hit of Spindash...it was an experience lol

@Blu_Moon_VA 2 года назад

Welp, at least Sora doesn't have a comeback, just a busted combo game.

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Yeah good luck recovering against Sora lol

@acedelta12 2 года назад

No mention of Revenge?

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

I talk about KO Punch and Revenge about halfway through lol

@acedelta12 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash It wasn't on the thumbnail

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

@@acedelta12 oh I didn't know that's what you meant, it would've been weird to incorporate into the thumbnail so I decided not to

@DoctorMario606 2 года назад

These are why I barely touch this game now lol. Imma wait until the next dlc before I start playing this game regularly again

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Another new character isn't going to make the other characters with comeback mechanics go away though?

@DoctorMario606 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash Never said that. I meant I'll be compelled to go back once the new character comes out

@Mc.Scrumpy 2 года назад

Sheesh I hate comeback mechanics. Why should there be a get out of jail free card when your loosing?

@cristiansoberal9914 2 года назад

Go is balanced

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

It's the worst balanced comeback mechanic in Ultimate imo Terry shouldn't have access to two super strong kill moves that he can combo into after 100% while being as heavy and as fast as he is. No to mention the burst options he has like his back special and a projectile too

@cristiansoberal9914 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash god I wish I mained terry

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

@@cristiansoberal9914 one of my practice partners mains him and he complains about getting camped out constantly LOL

@cristiansoberal9914 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash he sounds like a handsome guy

@rayman9118 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH, yeah two strong kill options that you require specific combo starters to combo into, with slow startup that makes them useless in neutral, on a bottom 30 speed character with a bad dash speed, walk speed, below average run speed and terrible air mobility, a terrible recovery and disadvantage state, a projectile that is useless when someone jumps and back special/side special being super unsafe. And finally the moves being only usable by executing difficult command input while also the combos being very precise. Nah, they are very well-balanced I tell you as a shoto player most of the time characters will combo or edge guard you before you have a chance to use it like 60% of the time and getting camped is how you play against all shotos like WHY WOULD APPROACH A CHARACTER THAT CAN ZERO TO DEATH YOU WITH OR WITHOUT GO.100% is KILL PERCENT FOR THE TERRY PLAYER YOU G HIT HIM ONCE HE IS DEAD. So in my honest and more factual opinion thanks to superior evidence, GO is very well-balanced like terry isn't even that much better than ken and ryu. Without combos, terry simply cannot kill, unlike ken who just shoryu's and ryu has an amazing projectile game. Go gives access to zero to deaths like ken that are more difficult but kill just as early. So with all that said your opinion sucks I guess and the worst comeback mechanic is aura so OKAY BYE.

@SaoAhmet 2 года назад

"Minor inconvenience" BRO HE REPLACED UR CONTROLLER WITH AN XBOX CONTROLLER U CAN'T PLAY THE GAME LOL

@PowPowSmash 2 года назад

Nah they'll add xbox controller support when the Chief gets into Smash don't worry

@SaoAhmet 2 года назад

@@PowPowSmash ah gotcha makes total sense!

@Stachebro12 2 года назад

You realise that the reason sakurai made smash was because he most fighting games are too difficult for new players to get good at them. So like it or not, comeback mechanics are literally why smash exists