As a retired metallurgist with many hundreds of hours using various hardness testers, I have a few comments. First, 100kg or 150kg is the load applied by the penetrator to the gage block or work being tested, not the sum of the weights hanging on the back of the machine- there is a considerable mechanical advantage involved here. ASTM E18, the governing specification, recognizes that moving a hardness tester- even within a building- can be traumatic. It's money well spent to find a hardness tester service tech in your area to clean, oil, perform minor repairs and verify your nice machine. He or she will check your conical diamond penetrators for chips that are virtually invisible. Speed of force application is just one important facet of hardness tester function- that will be checked out. While you may not be doing certified work, you'll want to treat the machine like any other fine measuring tool. On the Rockwell C scale, one division is equivalent to a penetration depth of 40-80 millionths of an inch! Rockwell testers cannot tell the difference between penetration and elastic deflection. It's important that the test piece be clean and dry and lay flat against the anvil. Workpiece camber can yield an erroneous (low) value and this is compounded by large diameter anvils. Hollow parts also can yield misleading numbers. You may have in your kit anvils with 0.25" or smaller contact patch. Smaller anvils are more repeatable and accurate provided the work is balanced. (Make sure nobody has performed a hardness test directly on the anvil). Don't depend on the preload to support a long workpiece. Outboard supports are often used. Hardness tests on round shafts require a V-anvil or roller cradle. Hardness values are corrected upwards- especially for softer materials and smaller diameters. Workpiece thickness should be at least 10X the depth of penetration. Minimum thickness and curvature correction charts simplify matters. Flip over thin parts and check the back for evidence; if you see a mark, the test is invalid. It is not OK to stack thin stock to build thickness. When performing multiple tests, make sure the test spacing is at least 2.5-3X the impression diameter. Don't test through mill scale, oil or grease. And get a dust cover over your instrument. A VCI emitter under the bonnet will keep surfaces rust free in your Florida climate. Anyway, congratulations- your shop auction haul was incredible!
Dennis, I would be interested in your comment on this thought. I was taught, both in Materials Science classes and on the shop floor, that the pre-load should be approached from 'below' only and that if you put too much preload you should abandon the test , move the piece and retest. The reasoning is that if you back off the pre-load then you leave residual plastic deformation [albeit miniscule] which is not accounted for when the load is applied and therefore causes an error. {Not, as some people may believe, because of backlash since as the thread is continuously loaded by the pre-load there is no backlash}. I noticed Adam did 'back off' the preload in one test and maybe that contributed to the slightly different reading he got on that test. Would like to hear your opinion. Adam - great vid as usual, keep up the great work.
Dennis Stephens, Excellent information, and on point. Quite a few topics that are new to me, always learning!!. speed of force is common cause of inaccurate sampling, as you stated, I was looking at the dash-pot system. My experience is on Vickers Hardness machines, then micro-hardness for further investigation, ( I will avoid the "In-depth prefix"). We have our machines calibrated annually, and the diamond every three years. Best regard from the UK
Nice job handling the hardness testing procedure! Retired metallurgist here from a career in industrial failure analysis, we put the hardness testers to use frequently...my only suggestion in observing your technique is that you did a nice job of avoiding crashing large anvil into the diamond cone indenter. It's heavy and typically when it releases from the last thread the operator tends keep lifting! If it's too close to the indenter...crash! Better the lower the anvil much farther away from the indenter of justt remove the indenter before switching anvils. An your are 100% correct in mentioning that the tester is simply measuring the depth of penetration of the indenter...good information for the viewers out there. Also the "C-scale" is for the diamond "Cone" indenter, the B-scale is for the hardened "Ball" (not rocket science). You might want to check the indentations on your test standard, if is says 94 it is most likely round ball indentations and the 94 is on the B-scale...i.e. softer material. Like I said, I'm a retired engineer learning the hobby machinist pass-time. I enjoy your knowledge and experience....I have a lot to learn! Thanks for sharing, it's great!
Adam, NEVER back off the preload if you overshoot the zero. You will get low readings because overshoot pushes the diamond test point a bit deeper into the material. Since you can't rotate the dial to this new zero position, just remember the offset from the desired zero and add it to the final reading. Also the the bolts in the wood box are probably for bolting the tester to a stand. There are threaded holes under the machines base.
For those upset about the promo for KBC Tools. It's not that bad and you can skip over it. Keep in mind we don't know if Adam likes the guys and giving them a plug or it's a payback for some freebies. Who cares? It's his channel and it's not that intrusive at this time. I'm sure Adam knows where the line is and won't step over it. Consider all the hours of great video he has provided and measure that against him talking about a product for a few minutes. No comparison. Yes, the tour of the KBC Tools website was too much. I've never seen a website tour before and I'd rather not see one again but we don't know the reason it happened so let's cut him some slack, let things find their own level and see what happens as Adam finds his way in something that's new for him and us.
Fair point and can see the usefulness if one used the KBC website. I don't so it was a bit strange and unnecessary to me. My comment shouldn't be taken as an indictment of what he is doing now. As I said above, it's Adam's channel to do with as he pleases and I'm just a viewer that can bail at any time. I certainly won't because he has taught me a lot about being professional and one can't put a price on that. Plus I like the guy. I think some people need to realize that when a channel becomes as popular his has become, things change. Companies want to give you things in return for the publicity it generates. Picking and choosing on who and how is a learned skill that takes a while. At the same time he needs to keep and grow his viewers because that is tied into a large chunk of his income. Everyone needs to give him time to find a balance that keeps everyone happy, I'm sure he's already spending a lot of time pondering this.
Great instrument Adam, I have spent 10 plus years on hardness testing machines, mainly Vickers and Micro Hardness (Knoop), but the Rockwell type are as you say for production sampling, each hardness test peice should state the load used, you only use the higher forces for harder materials. I'm sure you'll enjoy the added feature of testing parts before you start machining. Be careful when using it for very very hard materials. Thanks for sharing.
Adam Enjoy your channel and wish you the best . I am 40 years in the trade Toolmaker/Modelmaker and have made a lot hard tooling for our company.We have the exact same hardness tester. The small tool platen that was at the bottom of the box is the standard issue for the unit. The large diameter platen must be a optional attachment or ours is gone. Very nice to have a larger work surface. The standards that you showed should have markings that show HRC Rockwell C scale (diamond point- for heat-treated steels) others may say HRB Rockwell B scale ( 1\16 ball point - for softer -usually stock material non -heat treated materials). The HRB reading can help with determining speeds and feeds for different metals. I have read that when measuring round parts the reading can be off a little due to the sides curves away effecting the penetration.Thank you for sharing your expertise and knowledge and for all you do to promote this wonderful trade. Ps love the shaper work. Have a 7inch at my home shop -just does not compare to the stout machine you have.
I could watch the shaper all day. It always amazes me how such a large machine with such a long stroke can produce such consistently accurate and beautiful finishes, its a tribute to the men who designed and built it.
Twenty seconds into this video, my wife asked me "Are you smiling back at Adam again!?" Ha ha ha! You've got a great infectious smile, Man! - It's even making my Mrs. jaloux. I love the shaper work; the finish on those soft jaws is beautiful.
Hey Adam. When I was a tool and die maker in my grandfather's shop, we used almost the same model if not the same to check our die sections / tooling that we heat-treated in house. It was great seeing that tool ... brought back fond memories.
Man I just love the shaper. Milling machines are fine but that K&T just sings!! It seems like you've really nailed the art of grinding/honing the tooling. It makes all the difference in the world.
Used the rockwell hardness tester in my apprenticeship and through the years handy. Thankfully a lot of prototype word is still done on human operated machinery before it gets to the CNC stage. Some trades are becoming lost arts. A trade keeps the brain sharp and the hands busy 😀😀😀
I love tap magic! I was first introduced to it working on my ship in a shipyard in for repairs. I was drilling grease ports in a stainless steel pin and wasn’t having much success so an old machinist passed by and offered to make it. I was determined to do it myself, so he came back with a diamond hone and a small tin of tap magic. I had a wire bur on my drill bit and the tap magic worked excellent.
The 96 hardness standard was B scale, not C scale. 100 Rockwell B is about 20 Rockwell C. I'd suggest you try and Google a copy of ASTM E18 -- Standard testing methods for rockwell hardness. It explains the correct procedure, as well as conversion tables between different hardness scales and correction factors if you're taking the hardness of a curved surface.
Hey Adam, The shop where I used to work, we adjusted the dial on the hardness tester after it was preloaded - I don't know for sure if it makes a difference on your tester but that's how I was taught to use the shops tester. You may want to give it the 3 turns to preload it and then try to adjust the dial to zero. (It may only work after it has some stress on it) Don't know for sure but, it wouldn't hurt to give it a shot. Good luck, can't wait for a video showing everything that you won at the auction. Later
Thanks Adam, it's Sunday morning , and drinking my morning Dunkin Donuts coffee and I just watched this, I have to say it was great, the shaper really does a nice job. But seeing a hardness tester for the first time was "spectacular" thank you!
One thing i have always loved about your machining and project videos is that we see basically every step and every cut. No skipping through or unnecessary fast forwarding. It gives much more satisfaction and i feel im there with you. I would gladly go through a job real time but obviously thats not practical for a youtube video. Keep up the awesome videos mate. Deren Australia
Wow, another great Abom video to enjoy plus a coupon code for KBC. I've had a few minor items in my cart with them for a while and that extra $25 savings just pushed my to buy them. Thanks Adam for a great vid and some new parallels, edge finders and 123 blocks.
Gday Adam, it is Sunday morning here in Australia and like every Sunday morning I am blessed with laying on the lounge watch SNS, life doesn’t get any better then this, absolutely fantastic, I really enjoy the shaper work and the viewer gifts are fantastic, thanks mate for making life enjoyable, Cheers Matty in Australia 🇦🇺
Hi Adam, paused the video when you mentioned storing your hardness tester info sheets in a filing cabinet. It occurred to me that you probably have a very valuable stockpile of very hard to replace documents. If you are not already copying these documents in a digital format you may want to consider it. The easiest way I have found is to take pictures of each document and have at least one back up of the pictures, two back ups would be better. Make sure one back up is off site in case of a fire in your shop. Another tip since you are taking video anyway is make sure you have video of all your possessions, business and personal, and store a back up of that off site as well. Invaluable in case of a catastrophe. Back to the video. Cheers from B.C.
I never thought about the vise lifting the piece but your explanation makes perfect sense. I can see the movable jaw coming up, since the thread comes in on the bottom of the jaw. Good stuff, as usual.
It seems in Northern BC canada that a Rockwell Tester can not be found anywhere. Every once in a while I have to send a piece all the way south to vancouver to let me know what is what. What a great wall chart and sure enjoying the post today bud. Many thanks eh.
I've used that hardness tester and the Olsen Stiffness tester when I processed sheet metal before the slitting process. It was important to know when stamping coils of steel for the manufacturer.
Very nice work on the shaper, that tap magic worked very well. I wish I had the room in my small shop for a shaper. Adam you have exposed people the another old school way of machining. Good for you!
This is the fist QC Instrument I learned how to operate. In the beginning of our apprenticeship Heat Treating was learned and a requisite part our training , so we would test the material once it had been quenched and drawn to the correct harness. Since we were heat treating tool steel this was a critical part of the process. In a metal stamping plant there are a variety of tool steels required for manufacturing dies, gauges, jigs and fixtures and special machine tools.
I liked this video. However, you left out the interesting principle of operation. Hardness is measured by how deep the 200 Kgs can push the diamond point into the metal. Some viewers may not have seen this. Thanks. Keep up the good work.
In all three tip-force-depth hardness scales, they use the inverse of the value calculated times a constant to give a number used as the output on the dial, with the higher this number (smaller the mark on the sample), the higher the hardness. Brinell, for example, was based on fully annealed pure iron sample at room temperature (ferrite crystals) being very close to 100 on its scale, with the maximum (pure cementite at room temperature for a maximum hardness steel quench) being roughly 700, though anything above about 650 or so starts deforming the carbide ball and accuracy goes down with those higher hardnesses (diamond tips in the Vickers and Rockwell "C" are good for practically anything that steel can give, no matter how it is hardened).
That was good that the hardness tester came with the complete kit and paperwork! By the way the copies of the instruction manual were mimeographs that is what was used before the days of copy machines.
FYI, the big chart you show @9:33 or so says 'hardness conversion comparison chart' (koudo kansan hikaku byou), which I guess makes sense :) Thanks for giving me some kanji practice! Also you should scan that paperwork before you file it.)
Adam, the finish left on those aluminium ( sorry I'm English lol) soft jaws does look as if it has been surface ground. A superb finish, but that's Mr perfection for you! Nice job mate.
Adam I have been using Tap Magic since the 1980’s for drilling and taping and on rare occasions for machining. It is a great product for both steel and aluminum. Keep up the great work buddy.
Adam, your Hardness tester reminds me of my years working both for Teledyne McKay and Thermadyne Stoody. Both were manufacturers of stainless and wear resistant (hardfacing welding alloys). Rockwell C and the Mohs scales were our meat and potatoes! Great buy and great video!
@@joel231 He posted some videos of him at the actual auction, but he is also making a couple of videos going over each individual auction purchase. He said those videos will be coming out some time next week
I use a hardness tester very regularly for grading the quality of cane for the purpose of making oboe reeds. Any pieces softer than -14 are discarded. Saves time later because I get rid of bad material before spending more time on it. Mine is a lot smaller than the one you bought!! But the basics are the same. Mine is digital though. Cool stuff!
I think I saw a pinion gear attached to the bezel ring rotating when you moved it.There should be a rack attached to the dial face that meshes with the pinion. They can be ran past and you will have to dismantle the bezel to get the gear teeth to mesh back up. I work with precision pressure test gauges and it happens to us all the time thanks to idle hands.
At one shop I work at had a Rockwell tester that worked on a whole different concept as that one. Can't remember the manufacturer but it was a quality overbuilt heavy casted machine. It worked by dropping a weighted carbide tip and you measured the size of dent it made with an optical comparator included with the machine. For all I know there may be many ways to test hardness. I think someone even makes a noncomplying rudimentary pocket tester.
Hi Adam, May I make a suggestion for tracking out what may have been the surface finish issue on the chill block versus the soft jaws? Do a hardness test on the chill block and on the soft jaws. That may tell you that the chill block was extremely soft (for machining aspects). I have often seen similar things occur when machining 6061-T4 versus 6061-T6 aluminum. The T4 temper is 'just barely' considered "machinable" by many. Great videos! Again, be safe, & keep the content coming! LOVE IT ALL! Ken
The big table you have on the hardness tester is normally in the storage box and the other one you were wondering about stays on the hardness tester. Unless one of the other plates/tables are needed. Nice find Adam. Ken
Nice addition for metrology in the shop. Just as a note, try US Plastics Corp., they have any and all plastic bottles, containers, buckets and even barrels that you may find useful or need. Always enjoy your content!
Good video again, glad you mentioned ABBIE (hope spell it rite) haven't heard you mention her for a while. I worked for a steel forging works mfg. Axle shafts ,large trucks down to small cars ,after heat treated would check hardness with Brinnel) test different instruments for various metals I guess. Thanks.
Adam, you may have already taken care of the bezel-dial issue, but if not you can try this. On a dial gage there's often a notch in the outer edge of the dial that engages a small tab in the underside of the bezel. This allows the bezel to "carry" the dial as you rotate it. The notch and tab may have become disengaged, and if you spin the bezel all the way around a couple times you might get the bezel tab and dial notch to line up so that the tab can re-seat in the dial notch.
Adam, I have worked a couple of years in QC with a full set of Mitutoyo instruments. A CMM crysta apex, hardness test, projector etc... I know that sensation...measuring means knowledge. What a nice deal man!
I used to takes a lot of measurements in electronic systems where, similar to your tester, repeatability was always a little off. I would use more than three measurements, but throw out the high and the low and average the rest. That helps get a more representative number. Oh, and the softjaws looked as nice as a surface grinding job to me!
Awesome work Adam. Any chance you could get a mirrored of your logo so whenever you showcase the surface finish we can see your logo in the reflection?
Ever try a bar of soap on aluminum for finish issues. I never used it on a shaper cut but have had good results turning and milling. Rub it on machined surface and tool bit or cutter. Has saved my ass before.
The three major hardness scales for steels are Rockwell "C", Brinell, and Vickers Pyrimedal. The first and third use a diamond tip, the second uses a carbide ball (so it has a slightly lower maximum accurate hardness range than the others). They press the tip into the sample using a fixed specified force and note the depth (volume) of the dent mark made, with the smaller, the harder. There is also a somewhat less accurate, but quicker, Shore machine that uses a calibrated hammer that is slammed into the sample and how far it bounces off is the measurement, the higher the bounce, the harder. Shore does not put a mark on the sample and can be used in places where the others cannot, but, as you can imagine, it is rather crude and used as a first approximation usually.
You may use the Ball tip to check the Fireball tools Ductile consistency. Sometimes is needs stress relieving/annealing to stay in tolerance after machine work has been done. Cast iron is finicky. Very nice tester! Great score Adam
We all understand the need to make money for all the hard work you're putting in this channel, but I found the promotion part too intrusive, I hope you find a way to integrate it into the content in way that is both non-disruptive and useful. Been following this channel for years, hope you find this comment constructive for what I'm sure is a somewhat stressful period.
hey adam .... an old machinist here in germany told me the best cutting and cooling fluid for aluminium is methylated spirits.... i tried it myself and i have to say the results are penomelnal .. so if you want you can try it out (maybe in a video)
One of shops I worked at had one of this same brand. Punched a lot of hardness checks using it. Later replaced with a new Wilson hardness tester, nice! Won a eBay auction years ago for several grinding wheel dressers. Turned out to be diamond penetrators for Rockwell C hardness checking. Luckily, they haven't touched a grinding wheel! I'll have to see if I still have then here somewhere. Ken S
Wow! Your hardness tester demo was something special. I imagine you are looking for a heat treating furnace. Maybe one with a vacuum chamber or one that can be flooded with inert gas? Digital control for ramp up, holds and cool down cycles is nice.
$46.95 for those soft jaws? That’s a rip off! I just received my beautifully machined USA made 6” set to go on my Kurt DX6 for $16.99 with free shipping on eBay.
Adam, when you were "letting it settle out", it looked as though you didn't give it enough time to actually settle out. I know on the third time around (with the closeup so we could see what you were doing on the 33.1 puck), the needle was actually still moving (slowly, no doubt) when you picked the load back up off of it. This could make your readings off. Just giving it a few more seconds might give you better results. Just a thought.
I would love to use that Hardness Tester to test our tappets/cam followers, they often fail and start eating in the camshafts of our classic engines. That aluminum shaping is beautifull
Richard Michael Owen I'm sure that it's no news that since zinc has been removed from regular motor oil that non roller cam and lifter failure is way up.
Brinell uses a much larger ball (10mm) and and force (3000kg) The tester is also very different to accommodate the loads, the ones I’ve mainly used even have had a hand crank for a mini hydraulic pump.
