I think one of the largest things that disappointed me with the book was Telsin. She's been central to era 2 since the first book, her being captured was part of what prompted Wax to return. But then there's no resolution for it. He talks to her on top of the Shaw, having the same conversation they had the past few times they talked, then tells Harmony to knock her out and leaves. There's no victory or resolution to it, no personal or philosophical stakes were resolved. It literally didn't even have to be Wax there and it would have gone the exact same.
Yes, I totally agree with this! I was very disappointed with the way Telsin was handled - not just in this book, but in this era as a whole. For a character who is so vital to the plot - and who turns out to be the more-or-less "final" villain of the era - she has very little going for her in the way of character development. We're told over and over that she has been ambitious her whole life, and that she's had a strained relationship with Wax as a result, but we rarely ever see why. She's a rather one-note character overall, and I think the way her story just kind of petered out is a reflection of that; her story didn't even have anywhere to go.
In general, I feel like villains are one of the weakest parts of the Era 2. Miles is good, but ultimately the most classic villain for a western story; Bleeder is carried solely by the twist at the end; and Edwan with Telsin are your basic mustache-twirling villains with barely explained motivations and plans for world domination. To be fair, Era 1 villains also weren't the best part about it, but they're at least handled more competently. Lord Ruler, while is your basic Evil Emperor in Book 1, gets a surprising amount of depth in later books, Book 2 has several villains each working for their own goals leading to some great situations, which compensates for the fact that each individual one isn't that interesting, and Ruin in Book 3 presents an incredible threat to our protagonists which makes up for his not-so-great characterization.
I kinda like how patetic she is, she is just someone who thinks that is the protagonist of the world, but in reality is just a opportunistic who sided with authonomy, giving her a green card to be egotistical
I think that was kind of the point, wax even says that he feels no familil connection with her anymore, for him it was a job to finish, he wanted to be the one to do it, but in the end just a job
I enjoyed The Lost Metal, but I do think this book suffered from the fact that this era wasn’t in the original outline. It meant that things had to be implemented to set up era 3, but also complete the arcs of era 2. I think it was hard for brandon to decide how to make this entire era relevant to the story of Scadrial.
Yeah, that's more-or-less how I felt. Obviously I'm still glad he wrote this era - and in many ways I enjoyed it more than Era 1 - but this final book made it obvious that he had to change some major things to make it fit in with the already-planned books.
I think Allik suffered the most from the time skip. I remember reading Bands of Mourning and generally liking his character and I thought that his relationship with Marasi was cute. To go from a budding romance to them practically at the alter was quite jarring. Ultimately, I think it would have been better for them to break up during the time skip and remain friends.
Didn’t Allik also witness his friends getting tortured and murdered? And now he’s a smiling bake-off contestant. No ramifications of the trauma. Similar to OPs thoughts on the ending, it all feels a little sugar coated for such dark events.
@@notlukebenson It's been 7 years mate. I'm sure he was messed up for a few months, maybe a few years. But the time skip is really long. He might still have nightmares now and then, but even Wax got over murdering his own ex-wife in just a few months.
@@notlukebenson he might not have actually seen them murdered and tortured, it sounded like he was locked in a cage while they were all taken into another room and had stuff done to them. He probable heard it....however he may have not based on how shocked he was when he discovered how much Suit had figured out from those sessions... Still rough though....
I didn’t really think it was suuuuper jarring to have their relationship progress like that. It didn’t really deviate from the trajectory that was being foreshadowed, and the time involved was certainly enough to let it develop as it did. The timeskip itself was somewhat jarring for all characters to me, but I figure that’s just how timeskips are
HARD SPOILERS BEWARE Man I love Wayne, but since the first book I knew he was too awesome to keep alive. I cried like a baby from the page he pushed Wax off the boat to the very end. He was just so fun to read and for a sad sap like me he just is my favorite. As a wise man once said "she was built like a good roughs fence"
I dont disagree on any of your points, but I had a different emotional reaction to them. Especially the gang finding out the Cosmere stuff. It feels like Sanderson has positioned it to the point where people are now aware of the cosmere, thus freeing up era 3 to be more cosmere focused. Marasi, Wax, and Steris get to work readying Scadrial for whatever else may come. You are right, it feels much less like the end of era 1, but it feels like the whole Cosmere series has shifted away from that approach in recent books.
I think you're probably right; I just feel like it was a lot for this one book specifically, what with it being relatively short and at the end of an era that was mostly not Cosmere-aware. Still, I think the way he handled the Cosmere stuff in this book bodes well for the future, because it's really cool to see all these things that have been in the background for so long finally getting the spotlight.
I’m kind of the reverse on Allik. I think having background elements that the author doesn’t have space to detail are still nice as they make a world feel lived in, and a relationship can be one of those elements. Too often I feel that major characters have to be either single, married, or in a relationship with another major character, with page time needing to be dedicated to the romance. It’s nice to see Brandon breaking from that, and also including the extremely rare domestic male partner. If a relationship works in the author’s head, I don’t think it should be cut just because they don’t have page time to detail it, or because one character doesn’t work as a major part of the plot (and trying to force him in would probably feel like a repeat of Steris’s plot in Book 3) Edit: Note I am not slamming Steris’s inclusion in book 3, but it’s lampshaded a lot that she has no business being in most of the book, and it’s only tremendous (read authorial) luck in-universe and some of Brando’s best character writing that makes her a boon to the story, rather than a bane. Deciding not to try to repeat that with Allik is fair, but I don’t think that his inability to serve major narrative purpose means the relationship needs to be cut entirely.
I feel like you did a really good job articulating my feelings on this book. I really like that we’re moving to more cosmere aware stuff, and I’m all for that, but it definitely felt a bit jarring compared to the rest of the series.
Great stuff, man! I hadn’t thought much about the more negative aspects of the book, but I had a lingering feeling of unease after I finished, and you put that feeling into words very accurately! Also, I definitely agree that this was one of Sanderson’s more predictable entries in the Cosmere. Not necessarily bad, but the plot didn’t blow me away like lots of his others have
(Sorry in advance for any mistake. English is not my first language) The thing that disappointed me the most about this book is the wasted potential for new concepts like the twinborn, the compounders or the koloss-blooded. Like, we haven't seen a compounder since Alloy of Law, but they could have make some amazing antagonists, having powers like (almost) infinite speed, infinite mental speed or infinite strenght. Same with the koloss-blooded. It seems weird to me that Brandon introduced that concept in the first book and did nothing with it. No POV from a koloss-blooded character, no relevant koloss-blooded character... And it seems wild to me that only twinborn character we have seen (obviously not counting the characters with hemalurgic spikes) are Wax and Wayne. Specially since the Ars Arcanum implies that they have special powers thanks to their combinations of powers, which, by the way, we have basically not seen for Wax and Wayne
My biggest criticism for this book is that the biggest threat comes from the only story in the Cosmere that wasn't told in a novel. I never managed to read White Sand although I tried, and although I've read about it in the Coppermind (like a good Cosmere-Scholar would do xd) having Autonomy as the final boss felt like...meh. I don't think it was necessary to have an out-world menace, the Set (until we find out they were just Autonomy "fanatics") as a criminal movement based on shrewdness and cold-planning, was much more interesting in my opinion, and I think that having a god messing things up is a bit overdone by now in the Cosmere. *Humans can be terryfing too, and a planetary menace if given the powers to become one* I wish Autonomy becomes better explained and built in the next books if they're going to be that conqueror-god-universe-threat that all in the Cosmere should dread
Since The Alloy of Law we learn to dread the arrival of the men in gold and red, the colours of Odium. But in the end...it was Autonomy?? Why. I mean, using the same colours as Odium feels like a trap. At least I felt...fooled
100% agree that it felt jarring compared to the other 3 books of era 2. Although, it was fun and enthralling to read as always, I would’ve liked a little less time on the cosmere and a little more time with the era 2 gang as this is their last outing.
While I absolutely loved The Lost Metal, I do agree on some of the criticisms you make. I think I myself have less of a problem with the issues you mention, and they didn't detract from the story too much. I'm still very interested to see where the story goes.
This book was just jam packed with a lot things that aren't fully fleshed out. Also I didn't feel the Alec and Marasi relationship at all. It's like all that was in the intervening 6 years and it doesn't feel believable. I pretty much agree with everything you said. XD I definitely agree that the wider Cosmere stuff seemed like too much too fast. I think Brandon was itching to jump into all that stuff and couldn't wait til after Era 2. I still love all the info we got but the story of this book Linda suffered for packing too much stuff into it.
Yeah, it felt very compressed. All of the pieces were perfectly fine - I did not enjoy the ghostbloods MiB / Hellboy vibe, but It was done well I guess. But the book as a book felt more like a shortened / compressed readers digest version of something that needed much more actual length to tell properly.
Man you just perfectly put into words the exact feeling I had when I closed this book after finishing it. It was a great book and I was glued to it the whole way through but after the bomb went off it felt like all the characters instantly just..forgot? Moved on? Wax was literally turned into a Mistborn but 2 years later him just kinda..standing there feels wrong. Maybe that’s just me wishing it had been closer to a stormlight word count
For the technological inconsistencies - it was said that Autonomy pushed technology Set has access to a lot. Rockets were the most prominent example, they were specifically stated as being something Telsin was shown the image/idea of, but failed to re-create in time. It makes perfect sense to me that some of the simpler technology they got in a similar way *would* get created even though it's a bit early for it to develop naturally. Though I agree, this rapid development does disrupt the immersion a bit, it got integrated just a little too quickly.
So, as far as the rocket... the one thing I will say is, what I love about Sanderson books is, there is, well, always another secret. So many authors build their book around one specific twist, so if you see it coming then the book is basically ruined. I didn't personally see the rocket thing coming, though I did guess a few other things... but that's what I love about it. Very few twists come out of nowhere, he does hint at basically them all. Which means we'll see some of them coming. But there are *so many* twists, that even if you see 2-3 of them coming, there's still other things that totally blindside you while you're like "oh my god that makes so much sense."
I agree pretty much 100% even though I really liked this book. I don't really mind the interconnectedness since I really enjoy it and I feel cosmere would not be cosmere if we didn't increase the crossover pretty much at each major release.
Marasi's relationship and the reaction to aliens are the big flaws of the book. The rocket thing works because Wax is seeing unbelievable things since he returned to Elendel thogh readers know is very unlikely that the Set is able to make a rocket. Era 2 didn't actually finished, like you said it stopped, it will restart with era 3, when the technollogical developments discovered in era 2 will be spread everywhere
I feel like the ending worked quiet well. Marasi is gunning for a high leadership possition, which is the perfect place to stear the society into looking into the broader cosmere. sure, she herself could do research, but then she could've just joined the ghostbloods. wax is just tired and done with all the shit. his best friend died to save the world. sure, there are still the cosmere threats out there, but he was promised peace. though I wouldn't be surprised if he still did some research with metalurgy and by extension investiture as a hobby. and sterris is obviously creating hundreds of plans on how to deal with the threat.
I pretty much agree with all of what you said here. My main gripe with this book vs the rest of era 2 is the feel. This was a more expansive novel and had more to try and tidey up. That said, I think the Alloy of Law on its own as well. Basically, Alloy has a slower, more concentrated feel than Shadows. Bands is more detailed and faster paced/more happens, it makes sense that Lost Metal would be a finale of sorts. I do have to say that the whole underground post-fallout town thing was disturbing. The concept is brilliant and scary; the execution was a little corny though. Cmon. People just up and believed the world was ending but first were kidnapped? I have a hard time buying it. But it's a book so I'll let it slide. I think it was Brandon trying to show how merciless the Set could be and how the destination was more important than the journey, so to speak. Overall I was floored by the Lost Metal. But it still sucks Wayne died. PS: Let's hope for SL5 Brandon doesn't kill off anyone too awesome. That's all I'll say about that. :p great vid!
Just heard a theory that Allik was the one who drained the Bands of Mourning (apparently the Ghostbloods referred to him as a relevant 'connection' to the Malwish people, so he may be more important than Marasi thinks), so maybe we is indeed faking the relationship... Also, that's why I think she doesn't join the Ghostbloods, she cannot leave the planet and ultimately end her relationship with Allik because in the future we will need a link with the Malwish people
I just dont know why Marasi never told Wax about Moonlight. He trusted her, she should have told him but said she'd handle it. Even when it was all said and done, she kept Kell and the Ghostbloods to herself.
Heyyyy so that random Taldain video turned out to be super important after all! I mean yeah me (and others in the fandom) kinda guessed that Trell was an avatar of Autonomy, but I was expecting much lighter Cosmere-aware stuff with regard to that actually. I mean I really enjoyed it and oh MAN do I have some theories and ideas and questions... blah blah blah you get the picture; but I think it was just trying to "do too much". I sort of think that this is the other version of a Rhythm of War style of book, except with the opposite philosophy/focus. What I mean is that I loved RoW and while it might be my least favourite SA book overall, it was self-contained enough so that I was sure it was a SA book and yet had enough Cosmere goodies to make me excited long-term (and had one of the best endings of any Sanderlanche). For TLM though, it was the opposite approach: have the Cosmere stuff as a central part of the narrative, and also try to put in future references and open questions, except it kinda felt like a hollow victory. This book was doing so much leg-work for Era 3 and the wider Cosmere that it kind of forgot it was a Mistborn book sometimes, which is a bit sad. I didn't enjoy RoW as much as others, but I respect the hell out of it for setting up SA5 so well while still being a firmly "Stormlight first, Cosmere second" book. I'm really excited for when Sanderson really nails a Cosmere crossover book in this new phase, but this was certainly a solid attempt and left many positives to be built upon. Okay anyway enough rambling, thanks for another awesome video!
I totally agree with this. If this book was a Stormlight-length book, with the majority of the wordcount still focused on purely-Scadrial stuff, I think having the Ghostbloods plotline could work. But since it's such a short book, it bit off a little more than it could chew.
I read all mistborn books before reading anything alse in the Cosmere. So, I did not know a thing about the cosmere things. That make this book a challenge, sometimes boring, but a very good book anyway. Now I have read the Emperor's Soul, Elantris and eveything else. Now I like this book so much more. The cosmere stuff it's too much if you don't know about it, but if you do, I think that it makes the book so much better.
I am gonna disagree with you a bit on Marasi's ending. I don't think she was just planning to "go back to politicking" like you can dismiss that out of hand. She intends to become Governor. That remains the single most powerful position in what her entire life until a few years ago she believed to be the known world. And even up against the Malwish Consortium is a huge deal. I suspect Era 3 will be liberally sprinkled with 'history' pointing out that the only reason Elendel society wasn't entirely subsumed by the Malwish culture is because of her influence. And Scadrian society looks like it will be a massive player on the cosmeric stage in the space-opera age. She, personally, far more than Wax, is basically going to be single-handedly responsible for shaping the universe-spanning conflict that is to come. Granted, she goes into this not knowing that, but even from her perspective, going for the Governorship is more than just 'boring old politicking'. And the second point about how she'd want to know more... what's stopping her? If she sticks with the ghostbloods, anything more she learns, she can't use. But, she already knows some. Why are the Ghostbloods the only way for her to discover anything? I think her decision was more, I will gain power on my own, I will learn more on my own, and I will not be beholden to your demands that I never share what I know. I suspect Marasi will end up being the reason Scadrial knows about the wider cosmere as soon as it does, and why they end up being the central point of what, it seems, are the two great powers vying for control of the cosmere as a whole.
I enjoyed the book but had similar thoughts. It feels a bit tonally mismatched internally and with the other books. Andnd there is a lot going on (I think half of the book takes place in a single day?) As someone who just started Way of Kings last week, I thought there was too much Cosmere-connection stuff with the Ghostbloods; they don't factor into Marasi's subplot (other than helping her infiltrate the Community). I could justify their inclusion more if she ended up joining them, but she doesn't. I agree that her reaction to learning about them wouldn't be to just go back to her normal life. Anyway, I do think it was a good ending to Era 2, problems aside. I wonder how Era 3 will reference these characters.
Absolutely agree with ur point, I think that this book was setting up TOO much and not doing justice to the actual plot. Like it definitely could have been more fleshed out, every single one of the 3 plotlines.
There is definitely an odd technological inconsistency here. They don't have basic computers, they don't even have radios, but they can setup a system to monitor the bombs for tampering that is so robust and precise. It makes me feel like Sanderson should have consulted with more electrical engineers to sort out how something like that should work, especially with the interaction between the speed bubbles and the electrical signals. It might be a little dramatic, but this book has kinda broken my trust in the magic system and it starts feeling more like things happen because the book says they do rather than as a natural consequence of the basic principles of magic that have been outlined.
Yeah, I feel you on this. I think this is partly an inevitable result of trying to take magic systems as literally as Sanderson does in a world where real physics is also important. We already see lots of examples of him having to tweak real physics in order to have the magic system make sense (e.g. the speed bubbles not causing redshifting) and I suspect that trend will have to continue.
I really enjoyed TLM, and sure the book felt a bit different from the previous 3. Because as you point out, its 11 years later. Brandon is a different person, he's grown, his skills have developed and his goals have changed.
I really enjoyed the book and it's my favourite from second era, but Telsin was a dissapointment as a villain. Btw, Wayne is the best character in the Cosmere so far 😎
I think allik doesnt really need to be fleshed out, we saw that they liked each other in the last book, ee know they got together in this book so he does his pourpus is being a tether and something to fight for for marasi
12:26 Spoiler shield just in case: “His death was basically written in stone from the prologue;” the implications of that prologue are fascinating to me, since it’s basically another Terris Prophecy. That might be small potatoes in the face of the Cosmere as a whole, but that hitting me at the end was still a rush. (Just finished it this week lol)
I mean... Kelsier and Marsh are the only characters who would want to stick around tbh... Marsh more so to be of use to Saze than actually wanting to stick around
I think a large part of people's reactions is this expectation that era 2 would end like era 1. I didn't have this expectation in large part because era 2 was always more era 1.5 where it is more of an in between series. Also Brandon always talks about era 3 being a cold war which I assumed would be between the Basin and Southern Scadrials. Hence we don't get anything about that. Also I think Marasi and Wax are kind of just letting Harmony figure out the whole Autonomy thing. He'd let them know if he needed them.
As far as the ending... I dunno man. What's your alternative? That people just never retire, never live happy lives? You just keep fighting endlessly until you die because the entire universe isn't at peace yet? I don't think the ending of Lost Metal was a 'manufactured happy ending'. I think that Marasi very obviously is continuing in a long, difficult, arduous political battle that will take decades at least, and Wax is old and served his time and saved the world multiple times and has ended at a place where the rest of the universe isn't going to attack in his lifetime, so maybe he is allowed to just enjoy the rest of his life? I don't think he is required to be fighting until he's a broken old man who's never known anything but war, and the alternative is a "manufactured happy ending".
The only part I didn't like in this book was the way that the bands were just given to the Malwish. There was really no reason to ever have offered the deal to give them up in exchange for using them once. The Malwish had no leverage in that exchange, in geopolitics there are never gifts like that. Nations don't just act against their interests for nothing in return. I think in general politics/geopolitics is Brandons one weak point in his writing. But this book was an absolute 10/10, just fantastic. I absolutely loved it.
Wow... I feel sometimes I am in the extreme minority of Cosmere fans who can be critical of Wheel of Time and it almost made me spit out my drink to hear you acknowledge that romance in Wheel of Time isn't very well-written. Thank you, brother.
Big spoiler in my gripe of a comment but here it goes Well for me, The whole story with the ghostbloods just didnt feel real. These kinds of interplanetary magic inter mixing was allways just in shadesmar or so vague to the characters that they didn't realise. And then suddenly we have the lost metal. I'm definitely not complaining about how other forms of magic crop up in other planets but it just feels Soooo off. It didn't help that much of this magic interaction happened in the community where the underground environment made it more surreal and not feel like Scadrial at all. Also, the whole pure investeture shenanigan was a bit unfulfilling. Brandon in his spoiler stream long ago mentioned unkeyed dor when talking about a forger making themselves a mistborn with essence marks. I am sure that there are narrative reasons to why he didn't allaborate more on the essence maks lasting permanently, but a little explanation couldn't have hurt right? Just a single mention on how pure investiture has an effect on forgery as Moonlight subtley indicateded they would have adverse effects. Well this is just my opinion so if you disagree with it, you are a hundred percent right.
The way the Ghostbloods were so open about telling Marasi all the ins-and-outs of their magic systems definitely felt different from what we've seen from the Ghostbloods before, so I totally get where you're coming from.
loved allik in book 3. extremely dissapointed in his portrayel in TLM. Completely agree with you that the relationship was unnecessary and felt forced.
You: "Come on, how can they go straight to ballistic missiles, that's ridiculous, clearly there's going to be a plot twist where the missile is fake." Me, with a general familiarity with the history of a variety of technologies: "A missile? That seems like quite a stretch considering the level of the rest of their technology. But on the other hand, they do seem to jump forward in technology in unrealistic ways without intermediate steps in other parts of this world, so I guess its plausible enough, and I'll try not to let it break my immersion."
Yeah I 100% believe that Autonomy pushed the set into advancing into a hyper specific technological advance (rocket building)... Telsin even says that she can see the final product but she just needs to wrap her head around the finer details (not verbatim)
I loved him. I thought we got just the right amount of him, and the payoff at the end for the "Your carriage, sir" gag was solid gold. Legitimately might be one of my favorite Hoid moments
The whole not understanding why wax thought it was a rocket and not on the ship seems silly of you to say as a huge plot boy in the previous book was the set kidnapping and torturing a group of people to learn about how to fly lmao
I found the Ghostbloods stuff to be very jarring. Having read all of stormlight, I was under the impression they were a villainous group. Feels like Brandon did a complete 180 on the purpose of the Ghostbloods. I don't really like that direction. I preferred it with more villains in the cosmere, because I think the cosmere needs more substantial, well developed threats.
I agree that Shallan's experience and Marasi's felt like 2 different groups. Some of that can be explained away by the fact that the ghostbloods are from scadrial and they sought out Marasi directly but it still feels like Mraize's ruthlessnes is too much of a contrast to the complete open acceptance of Marasi. That said I didn't see the ghostbloods as villains really but as an outside group with different goals from the people of Roshar. Like a less sympathetic version of Hoid's connection to our protagonists (although I believe Hoid when he tells them not to trust him fully).
I feel like with all the shit the gang has been through not much surprises them anymore. Once god himself started talking to them crazy new things happening sort of became the new norm to them.
I've just read the book and before I watch your video, I only would like to say that I find your lack of 'puffy eyes after whole night of crying after the ending of this rusty book' disturbing thanks, now after this short break, we're back to crying and watching
Something that sort of blindsided me was the number of world-hoppers. I accidentally read the inside cover of the book (rookie mistake), so I knew there was an organization like the ghostbloods involved, so I was too surprised. But in general the amount of stuff in this book that was directly or revealed to be directly the result of outside influence, even just by Harmony, was a bit unnerving. Like I really like all the connections and stuff, but this feels like it's leading to only focusing on things like the ghostbloods, and it feels like these worlds have no control over themselves. Which brings me to what I thought you got spot on: how the stakes escalated super fast. Maybe if we learned a bit about some of this stuff previously, but first civil war (talked about in bands o' mourning), then the basin/elendel (because of malwish & set), then the whole world n stuff. I get that we always knew the Set were working on stuff, but there were multiple plans involved here, for example the bomb plan and edwarn's plan, so it just felt like Brandon was tying up loose ends. Overall it just feels like this book is just too much of a departure from the rest of the series, and also it felt like wax's development took a backseat to wayne's, and also wayne didn't get enough development throughout the whole series so it was crammed in here, instead of being sprinkled constantly, and also how did they end it there the tensions were palpable this should've been the ending of 3 or something and also the set doesn't really seem that scary in retrospect and I feel like they should've put up more of a direct fight as tendrils of their influence are discovered in everything. one sentence based good video also
It seems you have a common misconception about objectivism. While self-interest is considered the supreme value in that worldview, it is not about striving independently. Far from it. Cooperation and interdependence are necessary and advantageous. What you can't allow is for those relationships to turn parasitic -- in either direction.
Ok constructive criticism incoming. Look for example at any Marques Brownlee videos and you can see him from the upper part of his belly. Check Goblin videos - same thing. You sir are a talking head here. Small improvements matters.
how DARE you not mention kaise!!!! kaise is there!!!! she is a AONIC worldhopper and she's Codenames!!! how DARE you! I LIKED the video because of this, I am DISTRAUGHT. (this is a joke, but how dare you not mkenion kaise) [aonically pronounced kai e say]
Book was ok overall. It suffered from being the stepstone towards the Cosmere, which is evident if we consider that the main criticism is that Brandon Sanderson didnt give the Chars and Plot enough room to breathe, even tho this book was PACKED with content. Maybe it would have been better to slow it down a little bit, focus more on the story on hand instead of the cosmere...but I can also understand the urge to move forward.
