Some Coin Dealers Are Livid! What Coin Dealers Are Saying About CAC Grading 

For this 65 year old guy, this whole grading mess is really making me question investing any serious money into this hobby. Seriously, who would want to invest thousands into just one graded coin where just one grading point difference means you made or lost 10K ? Now you will hear people say that your PCGS MS-69 is really not a 69 as CAC has set a new standard and now your coin is worth thousands less. This is what happens when something is based on many different opinions. Its not good for the hobby. Just my opinion.😢 😵‍💫

I did an experiment with them as well. I collect sealed flat pack proof sets. I opened two sets of 1962 proofs and sent in the complete sets. Most coins were graded at 66, and two coins a quarter and one of the franklins were sent back as cleaned. The only coin to get a 67 grade was one of the pennies. They are being over strict trying to make a name for themselves. This also gives coin dealers an excuse to inflate prices if something has a lillte green sticker on it. Just another way to make this hobby harder and more expensive.

My mouth dropped at the anecdote at 3:12. Going from Details CACG to a PCGS slab and then getting the green sticker should be a black eye on the company. All we want is CONSISTENCY.

I don't have a problem with CACG grading tough, but what I do have a problem with is their grading service being tougher than their own sticker service.

I think it is horrible what CAC/G are doing but the coin collecting community brought it on themselves. Overhyping and overvaluing those stickers has given a green light to CACG to take over the coin grading market at any cost.

This is not limited to the coin world unfortunately! This has been going on between Beckett, PSA, and SCG in the card grading industry for years. Beckett graded cards always demand a premium because getting a high grade is tough to get. Just my observations. Thanks for your content!

From my point of view, CACG is playing their game with graders who perhaps are not experience I feel. I always thought NGC and PCGS were close in their grading standards and CACG I feel should be in line. Yet if said stories are true about those crack outs and grades, I feel CACG is unrealible.

Great video Daniel! I still love CACG, but they are hard on grading. I have many CACG coins, mostly Morgans, and I really enjoy the quality. Thanks for sharing the dealers’ perspectives on CACG 😎🤙🏼

Back in 70's I bought coins from Coin World ads, most Unc coins were Gem BU, Choice BU, Unc...same issues 45 years ago....I found PNG dealers back in the day had the most accurately graded coins....lots of overgrading back years ago...anacs was a great resource to have coins graded..Those were the days!

I see slabs, MS70'S, Proof 23' Morgan's, Peace & Eagles that have obvious issues I can pick up on with naked eye! Paid a premium price & they look like 2nds! Thanks for all your work & help with the coin world today!!

Personally, I have no interest in professionally graded coins. To me, those are for high end collectors and those that have more money than they know how to spend. This whole CAC thing just came out of nowhere, and suddenly collectors are paying premiums for their graded coins? I have been collecting since I was about 9 years old. Currently, I am over 70. When I started collecting, it was more about gathering coins and filling albums from pocket change. Just good, honest circulated change. After 1964, the whole hobby changed with the end of silver in coinage. One more thing that ruffles my feathers is the declaration on a slab that says "cleaned." Right. Show me one circulated coin that has never been cleaned in some form, and you will have a singular miracle. EVERY circulated coin has been cleaned - even if only to wipe some dust off of it - at one time or another. Lastly, I'll say something about population counts. The ONLY population count that counts is the mint record of how many were produced. How many coins have been sent out, graded, cracked open, and resubmitted - and how many times. This totally invalidates population counts. This also does not account for how many high grade coins are still sitting in Great-Grandpa's dresser drawer or how many are in private collections that have never been professionally graded. Well, I guess that is enough of my ranting for now.

PCGS carries a decent premium over NGC. I can imagine the premium that CACG would carry over PCGS if you can get a straight grade. It's got to be ginormous!

The inconsistency in gradjng is a very strong deterrent in collecting for me. I was just starting to get into it but have taken a large step back.

We used to know what we wanted and that's what we bought and if the price was too high we passed. Now we let the holder tell us what we're looking at. The collector who is willing to study is going to always have the advantage.

I have one and it looks like it should have been graded a little higher. I have no problems with them as I’ve only been a buyer. The ones that I’ve seen have all looked good so far.

I knew this was going to happen! LOL Thanks for sharing, Daniel. 👍👍

Another great information video Daniel. I will stick to buying coins that catches my attention and I will judge what I am willing to pay for it that way I feel like that I pay the fair price after I research it and I am happy with the purchase it. As far as CACG is concerned I will research it and watch what happens in the next few months to see if I am going to agree with their grades and willing to pay the price for them. Thanks Daniel for all you do Daniel for the hobby and have a great day.

The industry is just screaming for AI. Thanks for another informative video Daniel

This just proves my first impression. CACG is great for buyers or flippers, but a nightmare for submitters.

This is why I don't mess with graded coins. I have seen some highly graded coins that look worse than some loose coins I have found in rolls.

Seems to me that CACG is going to either make it the "Gold Standard" or they will make it the "STAY AWAY FROM ME." I see no middle ground.

That’s very interesting. I appreciate conservative grading but they seem to be going overboard with details grades. When you go from a straight graded PCGS holder to a details CACG to a straight graded PCGS + CAC sticker says a lot and now they can get the coins crossed over as Legacy coins to CACG lmfao. I think CACG isn’t letting a lot of the “market expectable” would-be-details coins through. We know there’s lots of coins that probably shouldn’t be in straight grade holders that are. Like a couple of those PCGS coins that got sent in again that got caught on the second go around. There are so many variables, I see why you push for AI! What happened to the mint state website? I miss the Morgan pricing. Thanks.

Another great video Daniel. Coin grading is subjective. You win some and you lose some. It sure does sound like CACG is expirencing some growing issues maybe. Not sure. I have never sent in any if my coins to be graded by any of the services. I have thought about it but now i dont think i will. Makes me apprehensive. Also its why i dont usually purchase graded coins in holders. Thanks for sharing and keep doing what ya do.

Grading is so subjective that in my opinion having another set of "eyeballs" on a coin is not a bad thing. It is the responsibility of the buyer/seller in their relationship to come to a fair price. No one forced anyone to send a coin to CAC for their evaluation just like many dealers and collectors prefer raw coins over slabbed. This is a free market place. If they prove to be reliable and honest at a fair price then they will succeed, if not their holders will become collectible.

Good for CACG, let all those coin dealers cry about the tough grading, for to long NGC and PCGS have graded coins to high. Plenty of coins getting MS-66 or higher, coins on holders is what’s going to kill the hobby. But I forgot we are at a time when everyone gets a trophy.

Yet another reason why I'm not going to bother with having any of my coins graded. I will agree that a graded coin can and normally will command a higher price, but from everything I've seen through my years of collecting grading companies are just as subjective on grading as the common persons idea of the grade of a coin. Thanks but I'll stick with ungraded, circulated coins for my collections.

Although “a new broom sweeps clean” is a truism in many phases of life, this truism grades on a curve in real life. This is especially true in politics - a dirty arena where a new broom results in a spruce up but hardly housewife level cleanliness. The Big Two in coin grading have gotten pretty comfy and I maintain from inspecting thousands of their slabs that there’s at least as much variation within P and N as there is between P and N. I think it’s too early to predict how all levels of the coin hobby and industry will judge CACG. For better or worse they are the new broom.

Based on that 1 dealers comments about the quarter submissions it sounds like the "green bean" sticker thing is just as big of a money scam as I expected. Send them your pre-graded coin and for a high fee we will blindly agree with the grade and put a pretty sticker on it. Thanks for your money suckers.

Thank you Daniel ! I haven't seen a CACG holdered coin in hand yet but interested in looking at some. Need to get grading that is correct. We shall see how this plays out

In this day and age there can be no reason that computers cannot grade a coin . This would prevent human subjectivity. I also wonder how often the big companies hold down grades to prevent price drops in the very high grades .?

I've been collecting for over 50 years. And I can remember an old timer telling me years ago that if a coin was handled to much he always concerned it to circulated

Thank you for sharing!

I don’t like how grading companies mark some coins as cleaned but the coin looks more like it was rubbed through 100 years of circulation.

Good day podna this is very insightful news and Happy New Year !

Fracturing the grading services will only have a negative impact on the industry. Where did they get their official training on grading.

Buy the coin and Not the holders

Thanks Daniel,...appreciate the KNOWLEDGE sir,..HAPPY NEW YEARS to ALL🎉

With these facts about the CAC coming out with grading issues , should they return the money or is this just a case of gambling you win some and the house usually wins most of the time ? It seems they cannot grade ungraded coins but are scamming for a green sticker on graded coins . Just my thoughts on every thing being reported . Danial your reporting is top notch , and I do watch others as well .

This just goes to show that stickers and grades are more or less pointless. The only value that these grading companies provide IMO are whether or not a coin is genuine. After that, it's eye appeal that should determine a coin's value, not some number or sticker. If CAC keeps grading this harshly and prices don't reflect the "premium", they won't have a grading service anymore

I commented on another video of this kind as well. We need to figure out an AI standard for everyone to use and bury the human element for accuracy (at the least to be fair to the hobby and the amount of $$ involved). Daniel is 100% accurate on this topic we just need consistency!

As I have said before, the grading standards for grading companies are subjective, inconsistent and lack explanations from the companies. Finally the process is costly and increasing in price due to cross overs and causing increased numbers of graded coins. AI needs to become the grading standard taking most of the human element out of grading.

Thank you

Very informative. I'll make sure to avoid them at all costs and stick to NGC for my gold proofs.

The big problem with the CAC stickering is that the general public, and even serious collectors and some dealers don't quite understand it. And in a way it gets overused like a knee-jerk reaction, and abused by folks trying to lend credibility to their "toned" coins. As to CACG - I have exactly one coin in a CACG holder, a 1940 Jefferson nickel graded MS66, which is their top pop (though they have only 100 or so Jeffersons in their pop report.) I would say, in a PCGS or NGC holder, it'd probably be an MS67 5FS. But am I cracking it out to get a higher grade? Absolutely not. I was only a kid when I started collecting coins, before any slabs existed. But even then a "Gem" was a true gem, and MS65 was a really good grade. Today that same coin would be an MS66+ or MS67. Seeing a coin marked "Superb Gem" was almost unheard of. Now it's almost commonplace with some issues. It's not like hoards of coins are getting newly discovered. Kind of reminds me how the golf club industry had been scamming golfers. Ever wonder why you new 7 iron hits as far as your 5 iron from the 1980s? It's because they've delofted that 7 iron to the same loft angle as that 5 iron, and possibly almost as long a shaft (which they have to do with graphite shafts to get the correct swing weight because they're lighter). The USGA has limits on CoR and other measurements in a club. So you end up with a 3 iron that is almost impossible to hit (because it's like a 1 or 2 iron) and you have to buy expensive hybrids or fairway woods. No shock, golf is also on somewhat of a decline in participation, as it has been for quite some time. A lot of the inflated grading I feel stems from the Registry set game which becomes a contest for the uber-rich, bulk-grading which in my opinion has ruined the TPG industry, and "market" grading based mostly on so-called "eye appeal." But I've seen a lot of crap Jefferson nickels as well in CACG holders - coins I'd never send in myself. And I'm not sure if it's testing the waters, or just having one of the "first" Jeffersons slabbed. But if the inaugural coins graded are submitted by the original CACG members (of which is about 3,000), I cannot see for the life of me how any member who takes pride in receiving a green or gold jelly bean would send such junk to be graded? Can anyone explain that?

It’s a shame, I think cacg is trying too hard to be conservative and they are ruining the value of people’s life long collections, its just too frustrating

I like the idea of a CAC coin, but I have been disappointed by some the coins I've seen. Personally, I only purchase PCGS or NGC. Just a personal preference. This almost sounds like CAC may be damaging their coins and sales, by questionable grading. Great idea to have select options, but when the grading is "questionable", It's a no sale for me. We have enough other alleged grading services that are at best questionable. Please don't "grade" your items, so that no one wants to buy them due to questionable items. Thanks Daniel for this post!

Let the seller sell ungraded coins, Get the price the buyer will pay. The buyer (IF) they want to, get them graded. There's too much greed in the grading system.

Getting details grade is always a crapshoot. Details should be reserved for when it's obvious.

Wow! That is a epic failure on CACs part, they sticker coins that they won't grade. Seems like they are on a huge cash grab right now.

All of these grading services are so confusing is the reason I no longer buy coins.

They are trying to make a statement

Clearly there's an issue with the graders who are stickering and the graders who are encapsulating, as both are not adhering to the company's grading standards consistently. Depending on the series, I can see high grades in a CACG holder commanding a good premium, whereas trying to get a good premium for an 1881 S Morgan, MS 64 CACG isn't going to happen. Who's going to pay a premium for that coin when they can get the same coin for the same price graded MS 65 in a NGC or PCGS holder? Why is anyone wasting their money sending CACG common coins at this point? (Especially moderns) 🙄

thanks daniel. i'm glad I don't care

The CACG Coin holders are Very difficult to open because they Don’t want you to open and submit to PCGS for grading. It goes to show a Double Standard within CACG when you an crack one of their coin holders, graded as Details, and send to PCGS and obtain a high grade And Then send it, the coin CACG originally graded as Details, to CAD/CAM and Get a Green-bean, which means CACG agrees with the determined grade of that coin. I won’t use CAGC except to get a Green-bean or Possibly a Gold-bean sticker, agreeing with PCGS’s determination of the coins grade.

Big like number 168! Excellent information and thank you so much for sharing!

Yes, I had a bad time with them, not a dealer just a life long collector.

What's next a CACG holdered coin with a Sticker if approved by another company ! Sticking with NGC & PCGS..

I welcome all grading companies it is all a part of the game. Holder, no holder, at the end of the day the public truly decides the value.

Yep they are mopping the floor with PCGS an NGC lol. This is the right time for ANACS to bring back there rep. ANACS has been doing much better imo but needs a better looking holder...

CAC, in my opinion, are probably grading harder to slow down their submissions being sent to them, So they don't look bad.

Between the grading companies and the Chinese it's getting harder to do coin collecting.

When CAC stickers came out there was an uproar. Then things settled down. I think the same will happen here. Once the company grows it will be sold. Same as PCGS and NGC.

This is why I’m a pure stacker and not a coin collector.

Thanks Daniel good stuff

Coins are worth what someone will give you for them. Just an old mans opinion.

Cracked out 5 PCGS Details coins sent to PCGS, 3 came back graded, go figure.

To my knowledge there are no published grading standards...# contact marks, luster, frostiness, strike, color, etc... This just emphasizes grading is just an opinion, subject to change, company to company, day to day. While graded coins typically bring a premium for value added to sellers and are possibly better for the unexperienced. It's buyer beware...there's also the issue counterfeit coins and/or holders.

Happy new year, sir have a nice work day.🕐🗼🗼🕐🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿

Finally sinking in. In the past many coins wouldn't get the green sticker at the requested grade. Fine. That's b/c CAC didn't control the grade, just the bean. And many/most didn't get the bean/CAC approval. My first concern about the new CACG was "Wait, now that every coin automatically gets a (printed) sticker (i.e., CAC approval) how does this not devalue all the existing, relatively rare and previously awarded beans? Beaned coins will be ubiquitous. Now I have the answer. Because now they do control the grade, which is the great equalizer. Something had to give and it was the grade. Interesting how this plays out, and whether people will regard physical stickers and printed stickers as equal. My guess is that the CACG holder will be preferred over a stickered NGC but NOT a stickered PCGS, certain exceptions notwithstanding. If their standards remain (unrealistically?) high, perhaps both but they might end up shooting themselves in the foot by discouraging submissions. I have very mixed feelings about their entrance in modern coins. It seems as though the qualitative differences in freshly minted modern coins is already splitting hairs, at least for the most popular coins produced by the U.S Mint post 2004. In any event, I'd be curious about CACG's definition of an MS or PF 70. PCGS defines a 70 as "as minted"... but slightly imperfect minting processes all but guarantees small, almost meaningless variations at 5x. Then again, I'm not sure how a grading company could make it without grading the moderns. And maybe that's all there is to it. One thing is certain: We all benefit from choice and competition.

CACG either figures it out or the service won't make it. I see they just lowered their prices, so they must already be seeing things slow. PCGS is still the king. Cheers!

I wouldn't even consider sending a coin to cac for grading. Unless I had endless $$

Thank you for the share @CoinHELPu my thoughts are not happy with some graders charging for getting cleaned au-details when they wre not shown that way in auction as they were even sent to grading from the auctioneer

people have cracked out Ngc details to pcgs and gotten a straight grade and vis versa. it just shows how subjective coin grading is and coin inflation. the dealers that solely sell raw coins will suffer most because unless you have a keen eye for grading then buyer beware.

When submitting to CACG is there an option for "do not holder genuine" like PCGS has? If so, just use that option and save some hassle trying to crack them out of a CACG slab... And my personal opinion, the harder it is to crack open a slab is something I'm all in favor of!

Whoever invents a feasible and accurate AI grading system is gonna be a multimillionaire.

It's one thing to claim you are being very strict with grades - that's fine. However it is quite another to be inconsistent to the extent that you grade a bunch of coins as cleaned and then give the same coins green beans effectively blessing a clean grade when they are instead put in PCGS or NGC slabs. I also have a problem with any grading service that only grades US coins. Okay you can argue that people can specialize in various things but only grading US coins means there is a problem for collectors that don't just focus on US coinage.

Eventually, all grading will be done by AI. This type of variance in coin grades between the top grading services is going to drive the market in that direction.

I've seen the SAME thing with sport cards...AND the grading companies. I'll give you ONE word - inconsistency.......or lack THEREOF. Enough said... Pretty well screwed up....frankly in my opinion. But if ANY of you feel the stupidity of an excessive NEED to have that elusive "green" sticker...give me a call. I"m certain my son can print them ALL DAY LONG on his printer....and we'll place them on your precious coin...ALL DAY LONG.....for a PRICE. For the sake of normalcy..and sanity, people - SOBER up!

I use a scroll saw.

Exactly why do not and never will buy graded coins.

I think the comments about sending in proof sets and getting back details coins is just wrong and more people need to be made aware.

There’s tough and there’s unreasonable tough. I know there are tons of coins that have been messed with and should never be submitted. That being said, if the majority of pcgs and ngc straight grade crackouts, (which seems to be a feat in itself achieving straight grades with them) are getting details grades at CACG, they won’t last long. The market needs more viable coins not less. If they’re willing to say details cleaned on a proof set crack put then almost nothing has a legitimate chance. This doesn’t provide any benefit but to line the pockets of CACG.

CACG appears to be aiming for the "best of the best of the best" in the market, which immediately disqualifies 95% of the industry. If they're only going to be beneficial to the coins that would warrant a PCGS "MS72" (MS70++? LOL) it won't take long before the MS69 level coins don't get sent to them at all. I haven't heard any mention of what they're charging for the grading service, but I suspect as more and more write them off a waste of money, they'll be forced to raise their prices even more, alienating even more of their potential market. They've set the bar too high, and it looks like it could turn out to be unsustainable.

Bah! Humbug! But seriously…how many ‘unboxing’ videos donI see where the submitter / dealer says “I didn’t think this coin would …” And they do The coin is the same, but with now three different opinions 1) what the submitter thought. 2) what the TPG said 3) what the submitter NOW thinks And the TPG, much like the casino, makes money with every bet. I just collect coins…

I've bought some of these slabs, and the grading is VERY conservative. That's what I want as a buyer, and I'm willing to pay extra for these slabs if it's not a ridiculous premium. It seems that CACG doesn't grade looser on key dates the way PCGS and NGC do, and the 1914-D cent I just bought is evidence of that. When I sell this coin, some dealer will be very happy.

There is a certain Bay Area dealer who had high grade CACG coins at FUN that were in fact nice and original but this dealer also has stake in the company too so....

I get the feeling that cacg is just trying to make the other guys look sloppy to gain more market share. In response we will probably see the other guys get hyper tough just to save face and the submitters are the ones paying the price. Eventually we might just see fewer submissions and collectors will just go back to deciding the condition and value of the coin themselves.

PCGS and NGC have been doing market grading for some years now. It seems CACG isn't which is good, but they do seem to be overly strict. Many dealers want to play the "crack out game" for profit and CACG doesn't fit their game plan.

I am trying to make the choice which grading com😊

BA HUM BUG 😮😂 LOVE U DANIEL GREAT VIDEOS

Buy the COIN, not the slab

Buy the coin, not the holder!!!

The coin dealers in Tulsa Oklahoma are absolutely worthless.

I've got a sample slab, and that is the extent of my CACG collection 😂

I think they are down pricing all other companies. That way they look better. CACG needs to go back the way they were before.

I guessed that coin dealers are not going to like CACG because there are very strict in grading. It's probably better to send them to PCGS and if warranted for CAC stickering. I recently sent 17 coins to CAC for stickering and all but 2 came back unstickered. The most common reason seems to be that coins were cleaned so their standards are very high. CAC coins sell for a big premium and even CAC's price guide is below what they sell for at shows and on coin dealer websites.

Are any coin dealers complaining certified to grade coins?

Stickers man 🤦‍♂️

Some Coin Dealers Are Livid! What Coin Dealers Are Saying About CAC Grading Look what CAC did to NGC and PCGS graded coins ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-K8D_qDU_-U0.html BUY COINS From Us portsmouthcoinshop.com/ Go to our help community here for coin help coinauctionshelp.com/forum/index.php

Is it just me or does CaC frown upon toned coins? They definetly seem to downgrade coins that are toned. Idk....I'm an NGC guy myself....