Some Thoughts on Yuzu and Citra 

Citra shutting down infuriates me more than Yuzu. Yuzu was kinda expected because the Switch is still an active system, but because of collateral damage, Citra went down as well. That was the best 3DS emulator and no other has a high compatibility rate at the moment. The 3DS is legacy hardware now, so shutting that down was a dick move.

You know what's more absurd? Some years from now, Nintendo will probably use yuzu code to emulate switch in their current console.

Citra being downed is absurd.

I've been an emulation fan going back to when MAME was a one person project. The Yuzu situation reminds me of Ultra-HLE (N64 emulator) and Bleem (PSX emulator). Both of these came out during the lifetime of the hardware it emulated, and both got smacked down by Nintendo / Sony. It was a blow to the emulation scene, but as you know, N64 and PSX emulation is alive and well today. Emulating systems is not illegal, and as long as the emulator developers avoid making money off of their work (and avoid current systems of course) then they will be fine. Emulation is not going anywhere.

Whoa, whoa there, buddy. I didn't even have time to grab a snack and drink, because dang it I need one after this news.

Thanks for providing a very well thought out and professional perspective on the Yuzu / Nintendo situation. Your channel is always one of the best when it comes to emulation and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information and advice on the preservation of these systems, and their respective audio and visual art. Keep up the great work!

Well presented and well thought out Russ! Well done.

Ryujinx just had UI improvements in latest update. A much nicer game layout now. I liked how Yuzu handled game controllers better though.

I love the push for retro emulation for the ability for us to keep enjoying these pieces of media history that have been lost to the wind. I can understand what is going on with this situation and know people always find ways to work around it. Being able to keep those memories fresh and these pieces of history and art alive is what brings me the most joy. The digital domain is finding its place in antiquated history and I don't want to see it turned to digital dust in the wind. Thanks for your thoughts on the topic Russ.

Definitely a respectable approach to the future of emulation and your videos moving forward. I'm still interested in every other existing emulator with new and old handhelds alike, so I'll be watching regardless of the unfortunate halt in Yuzu and Citra development and inability to showcase them without the risk Nintendork striking you down. Love the work you're doing and appreciate the update on your channel after all that's happened!

Great video Russ. Listened while I cooked on the grill. Thanks for the entertainment!

Nintendo first party exclusives aside, the thousands of indie and third party titles are usually widely available on other platforms - notably, Steam, where they're likely to work on PCs for years to come.

Always appreciate your candor and positivity. I look forward to seeing where the channel goes. You're a national treasure!

You can get it off Internet archive

I did see it coming thanks for the analysis on the matter, Russ

Looking forward to seeing where you go with the channel, Russ. 🎉

I literally got yuzu and citra setup on my Retroid 4 Pro right before the take down.. so lucky. Thanks for the content RGC, don't slow down.

I'm glad that the last version of Yuzu was pretty solid in performance and that version should last us for a while. It runs almost any switch game I've tried. The handheld market is obviously more impacted than PC since Ryujinx is still a great emulator and is still in development.

Someone will use a clone of the last repo and keep Citra and yuzu running, if not under the same name. A popular manga app, tachiyomi, had the same issue, and someone picked up the torch within 24 hours.

Smart decisions Russ. Thanks for the fireside chat ✌🏻

I think the 3DS video ideas sound great! Looking forward to those!

Glad I downloaded the latest update

Appreciate the solid summary Russ

This is a really big bummer. Im pretty new to the retro emulation community, about 6 months, and this is the first big blow to emulation I’ve experienced. As for the future, I’d love to at least see performance benchmarks for switch on these new devices with the next best available switch emulator. But it’s totally understandable if that’s not doable right now. I’d love to see the 3DS and Japanese 3DS modding videos. I see tons on marketplace in my area and have always been curious to get one and tinker. We’ll be fine through this, it’s just a change to adjust to. Thanks for keeping the community alive and well Russ! :)

I think the patreon also gave Nintendo real numbers to understand how yuzu was being used when TOTK was launched. Without the subscriber count and the early access incentive nintendo would have virtually no way of prooving that pirated copies of TOTK were being emulated. As oppose to just being played on a hacked switch

The issue wasn't emulation, but the fact totk was leaked before the actual release of the game and Yuzu devs actively profited from it before even Nintendo did it. We have to thank Yuzu and Citra's shutdown to all these folks around the internet bragging about how "smart" they're for playing totk even before de "morans" who bought it. The emulation community weakens because of such behavior! When we make emulation about piracy the big companies gain resources to strike harder and even destroy whole niches of emulation. But when it's made about access and preservation this community is UNSTOPPABLE! I wish everyone had seen it!

Nice level headed approach. Its nice to hear an unbiased explanation

Great to hear a measured reponse to the last few days news!

Just a quick note, Ryujinx got an entirely new UI in a major update this past weekend, you might want to check it out.

This is the concern I have when "buying" videos as well, from Amazon, etc. Will they always be available? But while I understand the Yuzu takedown, I agree with you that 3DS emulation through Citra should have been left alone. If it's not an active system, it moves into the realm of preservation. At some point, the technology available to physically play games on the older systems will not exist, and emulation will be the solution. I'd like to see a video on the Japanese 3DS system, as well as jailbreaking and set-up, as my current 3DS is no longer working. Thanks for the video!

Very sensible and reasonable discussion man, well done! 🥰

I was wondering where those upcoming 3ds videos went haha, I'll be looking forward to them!

I believe Switch emulation shows a few things: 1) there is a desire to carry fewer devices that serve more functions, and 2) there might be some frustration with Switch performance. It is no secret that the handheld is using a SoC that is roughly a decade old at this stage, and even top end devices rarely last so long. If we could measure those two driving forces, I wonder what they would translate into in terms of raw numbers. I assume Nintendo probably has some marketing/product strategists that have a better picture of this, but I a sure those sales figures act as a strong counterpoint. I would love to be a fly on the wall for those conversations.

The code for the early access builds was available to everyone. Only the builds were paywalled.

I have to tell you, I really appreciate you and what you do. I’m new to all of this and am also of the same mindset of being able to play all of the retro systems in one place is fantastic. As a switch owner, being able to play those games was just gravy. I guess we have to stay tuned.

your a LEGEND in the gaming comunity! we love you! hope all is well for you and yours! stay royal!

“The way they allow you to play”

i don't give a shit what nintendo says, i am emulating all of their systems and will continue to do so.

My thoughts are 🫡

Good video well needed! Thanks I hope things stop at thenyuzu and citra and we can move forward.

Stay Retro folks. History tells us that messing with stuff that is still on the shelf is not retro.

Yuzu could be compiled for free. You didnt need EA its just convenient. Also Ryu had TOTK working before Yuzu and i was there to see lol

Was waiting on your response 👌

Thanks!

I'm surprised by the number of people who genuinely cannot see any issue with an emulator that targets a company's _current console_ on the market, and which lets you play those games at higher framerates and resolutions. That, coupled with how people would brag about how they were playing some Switch games ahead of their public release, is essentially saying 🖕🏻 you to Nintendo. Are people really now **surprised Pikachu face** that Nintendo's lawyers have said: no, 🖕🏻 you! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Hello Russ, Highly appreciate your high quality videos over the years. Thank you! I think you can still show your 3DS and N.Switch emulation results but not mentioning the emulator’s names. Tell your audiences to check your older videos to get to know what emulators were used, “because of many reasons”. That makes your videos remain high quality by not missing 3DS and N.Switch results. I hope you would keep it on. All the best!

This was an amazing discussion on the topic. All sides were intelligently dissected and it’s honestly, just great journalism, which I don’t think we always think of when watching RU-vid. Ha.

Great video, Russ. I saw someone in the comments of MVG's video speculating that Nintendo chose this time to strike once they had a solid case because the Switch 2 is going to have a similar OS and API layers. It feels like this is an extremely unique case because gaming is so much bigger now, and the Switch is so underpowered.

Love the work Russ.

Damnnit Russ, I came here expecting a fancy video!

Great video Russ, I knew Yuzu was over when they had day 1 patches for new games, no way they can get away with that in court.

Good take on the situation, Russ. Also, the Japanese Region 3DS sounds like a fun project. I personally think other options will find their way into the wild. 3DS emulation being a lot closer, hopefully. I know besides Panda, there is Mikage that is being developed (albeit behind closed doors, but that might be a good thing after recent events).

What does this mean now for reviews as we are nearing levels of performance with these handhelds that Switch is a good test, or benchmark as you mentioned. Where do we go from here?

thank you for the info and also for not yelling angrily at the camera like some other RU-vidrs.

Glad your planning on doing modded 3ds videos. 3ds is still strong, red viper just made virtualboy playable in 3D on 3ds and it looks amazing- surprised Nintendo never did this

Bless you 🙏

Great chat Russ! Re: testing Switch emulation on new devices, maybe u could test on Ryujinx, but show literal footage of the game on Switch? So we'd more listen to the words than the visuals.

Been waiting for this video over these last few days.

Great balanced video.

this is why i recently starting collecting basically every old game id wanna play in the future and the emulator that plays them. Ive also seen some games being removed from vimms lair

You make some good and well thought out points. I have never done any Nintendo Switch emulation, simply because I didn't want to jailbreak my Switch to back up my games and risk being locked out of my Nintendo account, even though I have an earlier version of the Switch console that can be more readily jail broken. I bought my Steam Deck LCD, and subsequently Steam Deck OLED, to primarily play the games in my Steam library, as I especially like the Steam Deck's console experience. I have experimented with emulation on the Steam Deck, so I could play my GBA games that I really liked, but I can no longer play on my GBA console because it failed. I also play Zelda BOTW and Metroid Prime on my Steam Deck, but I bought the Nintendo WiiU games versions for the Deck, in addition to having already bought them as game cartridges for the Switch, so I paid Nintendo twice for the experience, as I prefer playing these two games on my Steam Deck compared with my Nintendo Switch. I do wish Nintendo would spend as much money / effort on improving their customer experience as they do on litigation. Nintendo's recent antics and sharp practices of effectively making you buy the same game many times over as you upgrade to their newer gaming consoles, discouraged me from buying an OLED Nintendo Switch, and leaves me questioning should I reward such behaviour and buy a Nintendo Switch 2, should one ever be released. Why don't Nintendo take a leaf out of Sony's book, and release some of their back catalogue of old console games for the PC. Most modern PC gaming consoles have touch screens and gyros etc. that would allow them to readily play PC versions of old DS and 3DS games, and then I wouldn't need to mess around with emulation. I recently re-imaged my Steam Deck LCD, and didn't bother with reinstalling EMUDeck etc, and instead focussed on my Steam Library and XBox Cloud gaming, so I could stream some of my XBox Game Pass games to my Steam Deck which works really well after adding the relevant Microsoft provided Edge shortcuts and artwork to my Steam Library.

Russ, your videos encouraged me to buy an Odin 2 and no regrets 👍

Thank you Russ

Thank you for addressing this and you're right on the money.

Very well handled Russ!

I have the citra app downloaded on my rp4 and I have all my game files on my sd card. Haven’t set up the app to play them yet. Will it still be possible to get that set up now? Would really appreciate any info!

We live in strange times and I think this is just the beginning of the end. It was nice to experience the golden age of emulation.

Glad I just updated on my Odin 2

I would love to see some Analogue Pocket stuff, emulation, new adapters and newest firmware update etc.

Some people are already working on a new fork of Yuzu called Suyu. I was watching them develop it live. It was awesome!

Thanks for the video, Russ! I'm sure there are loads of resources available but if you need a hand with translation for the Japanese 3ds, please give me a shout!

Bleem and Virtual Game Station were awesome PS1 emulators back in the day, and it hurt to lose those products that I paid for. It took many years, but now we have some incredible emulators that strive for accuracy, not just zero-day compatibility (as impressive as that is from the user's perspective, it's a nightmare for publishers). The Yuzu model was quite the anomaly in the emulation scene; we just just need to recall the past and practice patience.

never change, russ

i would be fine with you just describing yuzu/citra performance without showing footage, i think you are detailed enough to get a good idea. looking forward to the 3ds videos :)

Guess I bought my Retroid 4 pro at the wrong time :/ any other good alternatives to Citra? I was really looking forward to playing some of those 3DS titles again

will you switch to testing ryujinx for reviewing new devices that support it?

@retrogamecorps i have a qq . i was in the market and was planning to buy odin 2. afte this case yuzu and other emulators now. are nust closing their shops and i am not sure how will the future if emulation will hold. not promising tbh as of currently. Do you think right now going for odin 2 or any similar device is a good idea or maybe but a first party handheld.like switch or ps maybe. anyways great work as always.. #fan. and thank you

Does this mean when downloading it from Emudeck cifra and yuzu won’t work? Cuz i did and they both downloaded but Citra isn’t working =/

What were the last yuzu android and Citra builds?

How did you set up your crt tv over the shelves to show footage like that ??

Its a bummer from the present stand point. For the future, its very likely a fork will pick up Yuzu's work and go from there. Same for Citra. Its just a matter of time until even more alternatives exist, so yeah, its fucked now, indiferent in the future.

New fork of Yuzu's already announced

thanks for new video ;)

I've always wanted a handheld and one of the uses I was planning for it was, of course, Yuzu. (Planning also to buy the games) I finally got one, It will arrive tomorrow but now there is no Yuzu anymore.

Yay for the potential new 3DS videos. I didn't know Citra is gone now as well.

I have a RP4 pro on the way, will it come with Yuzu?

A big point, and I’ve seen others bellow say this as well, is that citra going down seems to be collateral damage or damage control, theirs no mention or evidence that Nintendo had them pull citra, it was (as far as we know) a decision by the team themselves, probably as a reaction to the lawsuit and fine

This is quite the video to see when i open youtube the day my odin 2 gets delivered...

Now that I’m listening to Russ’ talking about emulating Switch and retro on Odin…I didn’t consider this before, but could Nintendo be invested in shutting down retro emulation too, now that they tied retro game access to their NSO subscription service?

Citra MMJ seems to still be available, could that be used for future reviews?

Buying a Japanese New 3DS LL was a mixed bag for me, I got a defective unit with a bad headphone jack, sound would only play through earbuds or headphones when plugged in but the unit itself always thought headphones were plugged in so it refused to play sound through the speakers. I had a workaround in the form of Luma3DS which had an option to forcibly route the sound through to the speakers but that only worked for native 3DS apps, so no regular DS games, emulated or otherwise would have sound. Same thing for GBA emulation, but open_agb_firm had a similar option to route the sound forcibly through the speakers, so that worked as well. Anyway rant over, moral of the story is that as long as you find the guide it's super easy to get a Japanese 3DS changed to a new region and they're pretty decently priced as well, so if you're on the fence about buying one, go for it!

Idea: use a graphic to show gaming performance for yuzu going forward for games and then use b roll to show other games while you talk about it.

I downloaded citra from the playstore and paid for the premium features. I cannot find it anymore in the playstore but it is still avalailable in my library. Will it stay that way or will it also be removed from my library?

Very balanced perspective on a controversial issue, great video. My only comment about Yuzu development would be, whether anyone agrees or disagrees with what Nintendo did, doesn’t it seem pretty risky to develop any sort of software to help emulate the primary money-making console of a very large company that is well-known for being litigious about IP, and doing it in a country where IP and copyright protections are relatively strong? I’m sure Nintendo has a lot of lawyers on retainer in the USA, and this seems like the best sort of target for them to make Nintendo happy about its IP protection. Yuzu was popular enough that bringing it down would get everyone’s attention, but not so popular (and wealthy) that they could actually fight Nintendo in court, so Nintendo scores a relatively large “win” for little effort.

Preservation, etc is so key. It's not nintendo, but I was telling someone about Telltale's Poker Night and Poker Night 2 (you can play with the Heavy from TF2, ClapTrap from Borderlands, etc) and it's no longer avialable for purchase. So *I* can play it because I bought it a long time ago, but no one I tell about it now in 2024 can.

After thinking on this for a few days, I think there are generational differences at play here. Who didn’t have a “neighborhood” copy of software in the 80s and 90s? I remember in my high school Cisco Networking class, we had a copy of Windows XP that was passed around prior to release by a few days. Our teacher over heard us talking and kind of called us out, kind of hurt he wasn’t offered it early. Apple became what it is today because Napster and Limewire, etc all got shutdown while iTunes made it affordable and easy to pay what we now know is for the ability to access a license, not actually own it like physical. Who didn’t have mixtapes and recorded shows off their VCR? …I’m still curious why companies haven’t tried to ban DVRs… I think we have a culture that toes the piracy line with different feelings based on different upbringings, both generationally, but also regarding what is and isn’t perceived piracy. Obviously there are legal definitions, but there are also plenty of laws that are no longer enforced, but still in the books. Piracy can obviously be enforced, but even Nintendo seems to pick its battles. Ultimately- devs, stop pre-release compatibility, if not all current gen emulation. Stop pay walls - I’m fine with “$5 to remove ads” or “$5 coffee donation”, but the optics of “Pay $10 to get this additional access” seems a little too far. Publishers need to do better, too. We need options to preserve purchases and not be expected to pay multiple times to play things on current hardware - Steam has done it for years and years! Windows still has Windows Phone purchases I made. C’mon Nintendo!

Get ready kids we're setting Sail!

We love u Russ

Yuzu and Citra will love on. They were both open source and now people are pissed off at Nintendo, especially hackers and hobbiest developers

I received my odin 2 one week agao and am busy to set up everything while playing some times and working (also... ) and I was pushed to work on 3ds ... I just got the latest version of citra a few hours before the shut down...