Something weird is happening to used Intel Macs 

My first normal video in the new place! What do you guys think? I hope you’ve enjoyed the video as I sit here in pain from my wisdom tooth surgery on Wednesday 😬 hopefully I’ll be able to film some new stuff soon

I think it’s down to the average person not realising how much better performance and battery life they will get with an M1 chip.

There’s one thing that an Intel Mac holds over an M1 Mac, and that’s the ability to run Windows natively, I do still need to be able to dual boot, so I’m running a current i7 13” (16gb ram, 1tb SSD)… it’s the only single machine that covers all bases for me right now, it’s just the price that hurts!

This is proof that compatibility is just as important as performance

Oh you’re so young. All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again. This happened last couple of transitions because a lot professional software isn’t or wasn’t new chip ready. So, it’s probably not consumers that are buying Intel Macs. It’s businesses or people with professional needs. The technically true doesn’t matter at this stage of the transition. Until all pro software for Macs is on ARM and is super stable then the Intel Macs remain valuable and in fact more valuable because business have more money to spend. It makes perfect sense to us Gen X’ers and baby boomers that have been working with Macs since the 90s. You’ve also got people that aren’t ready to give up the ability to run Windows either natively or on VMware in a pro environment. I’m one of those people. You’re also thinking in self-employed terms instead of corporate terms. Traditionally bigger businesses like to use tech that has been proven for at least three years.

I’m a musician and I bought an M1 mini for music, I’ve talked to other musicians that are going back to intel because the plugins they spent money on won’t work on the M1; ,luckily I haven’t run into that problem.

The M1s are 1st generation, so it's understandable that the Intel ones haven't decreased in prices...yet. There's a demand for them used.

Still, real professional work, can’t be done on a 13” m1 with two thunderbolt ports that only support 1 external monitor. I switched to a windows laptop in the beginning of this year waiting for the new 16” and 14” MacBook pros with more ports. Hopefully I won’t have to wait much longer. Thanks for the great video as usual.

You can't use Boot Camp on M1 Macs and I think for huge group it's a big disadvantage.

I love the light in this new setting. Warm cozy tone. But regarding the prices.. it must really suck having bought a computer for $2000 and 3 years later have it drop more than half. But man! I wish we had the refurbished Apple store in Sweden.

Most people aren't computer techs so they don't know differences in specs. so they just look at the sightly cheaper prices and buy that...

It's still too soon. There are clear advantages to the M1 architecture. But Intel has a history, and a familiarity that you don't even need to think about. In two years, all these Intel Macs will be dirt cheap, and we'll all be drooling over the new M4's.

I don’t think the prices will change. I bought a 2015 15inch MacBook Pro inbox with no laminating issues or body damage on your say so thanks to your comparisons. I love the computer and the convenience of all the ports. Sure I have thought about upgrading to an M1 but honestly, if there was a way I could keep my current body/frame and do so, I would much rather that. I will forever cherish my 2015 15inch and I still think it’s the best all round computer for the money. That 15inch you found with 1tbssd and 2.8ghz is crazy value for that model. If anything I would buy that since I only have a 256gbssd and 2.3ghz. Either way I’m happy for now, many times I have thought about changing my set up to a desktop Mac M1 and just get an IpadPro but maybe in the future when I can afford to treat myself. Thanks for all your videos and I’m glad atleast Apple has some decent offerings. Shame they can’t offer decent trade in values though, that I think add to the premium price on eBay. Not to mention current world events.

Probably because power users recognize that having flexibility in OS is valuable. Being able to run MacOS AND Windows or Linux (not in a VM) has a value to a lot of users. Apple removed boot camp and has already said that M1 compatibility with other OSes is on the OS dev to figure out. And with the new privacy concerns around Apple, having the build quality and polish of a Mac but with an OS that respects their privacy is also valuable to a lot of people. Not every Apple user is exclusive to the Apple ecosystem. Assuming we are all only interested in MacOS performance per dollar is missing a big chunk of the story.

A small factor would be that M1 portables do not natively support more than one external monitor. So many people are waiting out or purchasing specifically intel JUST to avoid dealing with that. It seems weirdly convoluted to purchase a portable computer to only have it hooked up in a harness of 3+ peripherals but that’s a lot of people’s work flow

It's because Intel Macs are still actually Macs. For the moment, Apple Silicon is only partly a full experience. You still have to emulate a lot of apps and you can't dual boot Windows 10. That's a massive compromise for some professionals who still need full x86 compatibility and graphics cards.

I know so many people who automatically associate performance with an Intel i5 or i7 regardless of cpu generation or model. M1 means absolutely nothing to people who don't follow any tech news. So having an i5 or i7 is simply a tick box on their list of what they want from a laptop and these people are what is holding up that market price.

Still can't get over how good that lighting with the concrete pillar looks!

You're forgetting 2 killer features older MacBooks have. First, they have a mini-stereo jack. Macs used for working with sound and video still require it. Bluetooth just doesn't cut it for pros. Second, users need to boot to Windows for running specialized software. Running Windows in a VM has compatibility and performance issues.

For Anyone in music production, M1 is useless almost no plugins or DAWs work well on it, and it's gonna be quite awhile. Also being able to use x86 windows in boot camp/virtualised is very important

In early August 2021, I bought a new M1 Base MBAir for $749, all in! That was from Best Buy with a $150 discount, additional $100 student discount, and zero sales tax due to back-to-school tax holiday in Florida. I honestly had to laugh out loud at the eBay selling prices for the i5 base model Intel MBPro listings you shared.

From my experience in selling used laptops (X Thinkpads mostly), I see time and time again a transition of a good from being a high-tech item to being a utility. When you consider a new laptop, you normally put a lot of consideration into peak CPU & GPU output, RAM clocks, SSD speeds, design. As the item ages, these become less relevant and other things start to matter, e.g. if it has a durable body, if the keyboard is pleasant, if the screen is good. Battery is likely degraded at this point and the peak CPU & GPU output does not matter any longer - you're not hoping for AAA gaming, but rather a decent browsing experience and office work. After this long intro, why IMO Apple laptops age well (arguably as Thinkpads do). First of all - aluminium body is hard to beat. It gets scratched and gets bumped, but you cannot crack it, so aesthetically most of the laptops look really well. The Mac screens have been great if not the best since forever. Not many screens out there today reach retina quality and screens rarely degrade over the years (you can get pressure marks on the IPS panels if you're clumsy, but Mac ones last well). The Mac keyboards have been great, with the butterfly keyboards still great, but terribly unreliable (no idea why people buy those). Lastly - the touchpad is the best one probably of all the laptops. Pack all of these together and you get a competitive laptop in the $400-600 range. Buying a plastic piece of 💩with the 11 gen Intel or 2015 MBP - i'd definitely pick the 2015 MBP. To answer the obvious question - how do old Macs get close in terms of pricing of the new M1 ones, i'd say that the issue is not with old Macs being overpriced, but rather with the new Macs being under-priced. The value of M1 MBA should be around $1300. What Apple seems to be doing is having an aggressive pricing to increase its marketshare using their technological edge. I think it's great for the consumers and for breaking the Intel hold over the laptop industry. At the same time, i hope the competition does not go bankrupt, like in case of the Android phone manufacturers. This is unless we are ok with $2k MBAs...

If you look hard you can get a GREAT deal, picked up a 2011 MacBook Pro 15/i7 dedicated GPU base for $140. It was in new condition, granted I had to up grade the RAM and HDD to an SSD. I had the Ram and put in an inexpensive SSD, total out of pocket with the upgrades $161. It is really outdated, but the price was good and it performs well.

Nice job! To your question regarding value... Value has little to do with price, only the market. Due to Covid the "APPLE" market has changed (for the good) and people are working from home and being plugged into zoom calls all day. 16g of ram, a solid ssd and 2 extra monitors is all they need. they don't edit or game so saving $500 on fantastic used laptop is a value. I switched 2 years ago to a 2014 Mac Book Pro 15 (for $400) after 5 years of intel. The difference is amazing. I could have spent $2000 on another intel laptop and been going back and forth with the geek squad every 3 months on some windows update problem. I have had no issues and I am happy and due to your videos I have had a great deal of fun cleaning fans and changing thermal paste. When my computer works like it does today, all is good and in place.

I would say Intel Macs are still valuable for those who cannot get m1 compatibility on the software they use, 32gb of ram, good dedicated graphics cards and egpu support, better ports and running windows in native bootcamp. The m1 performance does not necessarily help here. Also old MacBooks would be more repairable/upgradeable.

Can we also talk about how many intel macs they dropped from support. I don’t see them being supported as long either as they switch to the m series chips.

Honestly its the complete opposite for me! I was gonna get an M1 MBA for collage (the base model) so i asked the IT guy and he said that their network wasnt ready for M1 atm. So I got a loaded out 2019 13" MacBook Pro 16GB RAM 512GB SSD Core i9 for $900!!! Im so happy with this little guy and its working out great for me!

The biggest problem is that you shouldn't use eBay if you want a good deal. I bought a Retina 2013 MBP 2.6 dGPU 512 GB model which is in pretty much A grade condition + a new battery for just ~350$ from a local. Meanwhile, on eBay, good luck finding any 15" retina that isn't in horrible condition for that price.

Thought so the same until I started using an M1 for work. Besides the battery, I don't like it at all for now. There are so many bugs on dev tools side of things. it usually crashes. The external display situation is also a big bummer. So its totally understandable for the intel ones to hold their values.

Maybe the sustained demand is partially about compatibility with older apps? For example I use Parallels and I think my VMs won't work on an M1 Mac.

We have people here in western Australia were I live trying to sell a trashcan Mac for 2200 aussie dollars ... When it's 3000 for a brand new Mac studio 🤔

I had wisdom tooth (impacted) surgery when I was your age and was out of action for a week! Good to see you recovered so fast.

Luke: WHAT ARE YOU LOOSING? Me: A FAN!

I think for a lot of people it’s that the limitations of M1 in its current incarnation don’t suit what they are trying to accomplish. Need BootCamp? Sorry. Need stock support for multiple screens? Sucks to suck. Need more than two ports? Joke’s on you. Need all software to work except (lol) cross compatibility with iPadOS apps? Call Tim Apple to cry about it. These are real limitations that a blazing fast CPU can’t really fix. I have a 2020 27 inch IMac and an M1 MacBook Pro, and besides almost never noticing the difference in speed, there are many tasks that just require ports and intel chips at this point. I couldn’t even consider selling that IMac (which I love, btw). Another thing is that outdated Apple products are still Apple, and that will always command a price.

Thanks yet again for the great info :). I did look for a MacBook Pro 2015 and there was one for $569. I'm not sure it warrants the price when I can get a Mac Mini in the same price range.

Still use a 2012 MBP. I upgraded in ram to 16gb, installed a 1tb SSD and changed the battery, and that makes it run fine for what I need it for. I would love the battery performance of the M1, but I’m never on mine that long…..

You could be surprised at the number of people who still need to run Windows through Bootcamp on their Macs.

Here in Germany used Mac prices are still higher than in the US. Crazy. Love your content. 👍🏻 I guess they‘ll get cheaper when far more used ones come on the market after the Mac setup has been renewed. There is no logical technically related reason for the prices. Consumer behavior relates to many „soft factors“.

Oh no, they make perfect sense. Majority of people out there have NO IDEA what Intel or Apple Silicon(M1) is. All they see is Apple Macbook and nothing else. I sadly know so many people who are like that it was so hard to explain the difference.

I bought a brand new MacBook Air M1 Base model at Best Buy 2 weeks ago for only $750! (Best Buy had a promotion deal for $849, plus another $100 off with their student program). You can't beat that value and power for that money anywhere! That's 25% off the retail price.

I think your missing the software effect. Sure the M1 has better performance, better battery life etc, but there is a whole generation of software it can’t or won’t run.

Ebay sellers are in denial, basically. Its like selling the best horse available once motorcars started showing up for sale LOL

Intel chips last a long time. I have friends that still have 2012 Mac Minis that run their streams and still use for their photography. I have the IMac I5 4 core 3.8ghz 2017 with 64gb of 2400mhz memory which is still great! I love the 5k screen. I also have the 2018 Mac Mini I5 6 core 3.0ghz with 64gb of 2666mhz memory which I have used 5 Elgato 4k USB capture cards with camera and it runs flawlessly. The temps get no warmer than 65 degrees Celsius. I have two 2017 12" Macbooks Duo Core but the battery power is about 3 hours for each. So I bought the M1 Macbook Air and it is fast and great battery life. Next year when hopefully the supply chain will be better we will get the new 30" M1x or M2 IMacs which I am patiently waiting for. Stay Safe and Keep Smiling!

Luke nice video! The who are buying are DJ's and producers. I currently have two 2012 MacBook Pro's and 2014 MacBook Pro that are still going strong. I also have the M1 Pro, M1 Air, and M1 Mac Mini. I still use my older Mac because my Ableton, Native Instruments, and Arturia software still run marvelously on the older Macs. Thanks!

The 5600M is 60 to 70% powerfull than M1 Gpu ... Luke Miani: BAAAArrreeeellllyyy More Powerfull...

The new space looks great! As for why have these Intel Macs not depreciated more it’s a head scratcher… It’s good to know about the refurb deals though!

That lamp over your left shoulder is fukin wit me.

I have a 2018 Mac Mini i7/16gb/512gb with an eGPU AMD RX 570 and dual monitors. If I were to "upgrade" to the new M1 Mac Mini, I'd be going down from 4 usb-c thunderbolt 3 ports to only 2, I'd be giving up that gorgeous Space Gray color and would not be able to run an external video card. The way I look at it, regardless of how much I paid for it, upgradability and rarity are the two driving points for me. I can upgrade the ram, I can swap out my video card , upgrade my monitors, sure it may not be as fast or as quiet or as energy effient, but who cares, it looks cool and for my needs it's perfect.

As a dev I'm sad to say it's hard/impossible to do my job on M1 mac. Still have problems. A lot of them...

16" MBP is still the best Mac available for a lot of people

Just bought three 2012-2013 MacBook Airs, all in very good shape, the two 2013s for $50 each, the 2012 for $80 because it was in perfect shape with original box, but it had a funky battery. Upgraded all to 256GB for $30 each, and $25 for the one that needed the battery. This all began when I learned I couldn’t reasonably install Windows on my new MBA M1, and I needed Windows for some work apps.

I have a used Intel MacBook Pro, used because I've been using it for the last couple of years, and I rather like it. I think I'll hold off judgment until an M1X MBP comes out.

Loving the new location; looks warm and cozy.

It will all make more sense when you realise that your thinking is flawed. Your mistake is that you are comparing Intel macs only to Apple silicon macs. Where as if you bring other intel laptops into the picture, then it all will make more sense. Because it’s not like intel macs are suddenly half the price of hp or dell… they are still better. So for intel macs to significantly decrease in value, others need to decrease in value the same way.

My “mid” 2015 MacBook Pro 15 Retina absolutely rocks. I have no interest in replacing it as my everyday all around personal computer. However the Thunderbolt ports are not functioning properly. (Causes my Thunderbolt Display to overheat???) I hope to see a video on how to fix that problem. Thanks for your support!

I think it’s just the software support for x86 that is making these macs still keep their value. Some workflows just arent ready for M1 and its still too early. In a couple of years when all macs are Apple Silicon and software is not an issue anymore, these macs are going to really cheap out.

Luke as Sauron: Buildeth me a PC worthy of Macdom

Bonus: When purchasing a NEW M1 Mac look for Apple to offer some goodies like free AppleTV Plus, deals on AirPods, Beats headphones etc.....that adds little more value to a NEW purchase.

*Are* people paying these prices though? You've really gotta look at completed listings to get a proper feel for the current market.

I picked up a 2012 "13 MBP and it was half the the price of another exact model as it had an SSD and upgraded RAM, so upgraded this one I got to an SSD and 8GB of ram for next to nothing, installed Linux on it and it runs like a dream

Maybe it’s the people who have just gotten into the habit of thinking, “Used is better value than new,” and don’t really care about technical specs.

Makes total sense. The mac experience was never all about how fast things get done. People love using the physical machine, the OS.. no one cares if the M1 chip is better. Only you guys and geeks.

Here's another weird fact. I have seen multiple listings of M1 MacBook air listed between $600 and $700 on FB marketplace (MA/ New England area) place. Anything above $750 struggles to sell.

Topic blends in well. Nice studio for your first real video happy streaming.

The dislikes are coming from the ebay sellers lol

As far as I’m concerned right now since they’re transitioning away from Intel they’re worth nothing. I wouldn’t buy one if it was half price.

This video came out after I just bought a 13-inch MacBook Pro 256 Non-touchbar. I got it for $300 though so it was a steal tbh..

Good video! I'm hoping to hear you weigh in on the Apple Privacy controversy. With so many people poised to leave the Apple ecosystem, I think it's an important issue to talk on.

I am tired of this blind admiration of M1 Macs. No repair videos or interesting stuff anymore. Just blind love for M1.

A question to Luke Miani and everyone has an answer. "Which is the most budget powerful Mac looking mostly to Final Cut X export time? In a 600-800€ budget area, and ignoring the OS release (it's a production machine where I edit 4k videos for a YT channel)

I'm watching this video on my fav old mint iMac, mid-2011 21.5 using an external boot M4 SSD sitting on a little shelf mounted behind the screen, and High Sierra .. my go to laptop is a flawless, pristine mid-2012 MacBook pro with Mojave and a Samsung 850 evo, ... I'm happy. Occasionally, I load Catalina into the MacBook just for fun .. and to use a couple of programs that need this. This entire set-up cost me only a few hundred dollars, purchased both machines "in the box" from "one owner auction" situations and it does everything I need.

@luke miani I'm still rockin a mid-2009 white macbook (2.13gz c2d, 6gb ram (max) and a 240gb ssd. It actually runs High Sierra (dosdude patch ofc) very well. The only thing I could with is that the wrist rest wasn't chipped a bit.

2 months later. The M1 Pro and Max hit. My Mid-2020 4 port 13” had the prices fall so much I only lost $100-200 trading to apple rather than selling on eBay(when you account for eBay fees)

The live sound industry relies heavily on Dante devices, as far as I'm aware there's no reliable way of running DVS or anything Dante related on an M1 machine... If you have a machine that goes bad you're looking for another Intel machine.

I stopped buying and selling used Macs over a year ago, dabbled in ThinkPads for a while, and have now gotten into rugged laptops. Huge profit potentials if you can find the golden nuggets among the ore, fix up the scratch and dent models, and salvage cheap as chips "as is" listings.

M1 Macs still have issues with multiple screens and there are still some compatibility issues for certain niche stuff... sad fact is, for some people, they still need the Intel Mac... So prices won't drop... over all better doesn't mean it's better in every single issues. From businesses to certain niches. You need to remember that some people might have needs that you don't and maybe the M1 isn't ready to deal with that specific market yet. Just because something is good for 95% of the market doesn't mean that the 5% doesn't exist.

The price for the older models don't make any sense. I nearly bought a 2018 Macbook Pro and my friend explained that I would be buying a worse device for basically the same money. I no longer worry about charging the M1 Pro after work - it just sits in the bag and I'll do exactly the same this evening! Battery life is a game changer. I worried that M1 would be annoying but for anyone creating music ALL vst's work perfectly 😇 I really am grateful for your videos - and continue to watch after buying the new model. It is definitely the most expensive gadget I have ever bought but that sense of convenience that I get over my PC based laptops is priceless. Apple just works. I compared an Air (A1466) to several PC laptops and computers, and the old Air was always better. Windows slows down and cannot cope with the same amount of RAM. Apple never slows down or cries - they have perfected perfection and really enjoy working with the newer model. Fingers crossed it will continue to function as well as it does in years to come. Thanks again for the amazing content Luke 🦾

It might just come down to laziness and people not researching or not knowing what they're buying.

It makes total sense. Intel Macs are slowly getting discontinued. And everything that hasn’t translated to the M1, whether it’s full app support or hardware drivers, they all live with the old Intel Macs. You can’t even use Teams on the M1 yet. And some folks cannot change their workflow just because something is simply “faster”. It has to work with their work.

I just bought a 2018 512 Gb 15 inch MacBook Pro with the Radeon Pro 560X that just came back from the keyboard replacement program for $600. Local listings are the way to go.

Your setup is a place that I would snuggle up during the winter

Going with a M1 MacBook Air or even a Mini is a no brainer, however… the market has not budged on larger display models, which Apple has yet to release. I’ve seen 13” models drop considerably. It’s apparent people want a larger display with the M1 chip and aren’t willing to wait.

There's also the issue that you can only get multi-monitor support with DisplayLink adapters, but hardly any of the adapters will tell you that they're not DisplayLink compatible (and even if they are, you have to install the driver - which is weird as a mac person), so there's a big holdout for that.

How about $500 for a 2012 MacBook pro or a 2014 Macbook air 😬😬😬😬 Hard to believe but, yeah that's how terrible the current MacBook market is in Sri Lanka

I see it this way: 1) As long as people want MacOS but depend on x86 they can continue to charge a premium. Think about businesses with highly specialised applications. 2) If they were to offsell their Intel portfolio, the attractive price would dampen some of their M1 sales which of course is their bigger focus. In other words by keeping older stuff expensive, people will naturally choose the newer and better product in the same or lower price range. 3) Intel Macs are still great for advanced users who want pretty looking devices but run multiple Operating Systems on it like Linux.

Yo Luke, I think the main reason why prices aren't going down is mainly the supply and demand chain. M1 macs are there in the store so they don't really need to be included. But the quantity of Intel macs on used market is still so huge that the small number of M1 macs won't budge the prices. Because after all prices are decided not by performance but by value. The day the market has 1 intel Mac for every 5 M1 macs , the prices will adjust. Until then the majority will decide the price, if Intel macs are selling for 1k$ , they'll keep selling for 1k$.

I see it in Europe, mac are so expensive and people are so used to know it that they rarely discuss the price of Macs and price for used device are out of control. Even PPC ones.

You guys in US and Canada are so lucky that there is a refurbished store for Apple. Can't get that in many parts of Asia so it is either brand new or second hand from online selling platforms.

Hey if you are a music producer and own a ton of plugins good luck with Apple Silicon. I have an I-Mac Pro and plan to keep it. Some of my plugins will not work with native Silicon Apps. I plan to add a M1X laptop for video and photo editing but just in music and sound design…

There will be a massive correction next year when the full silicon line up is out. Lots of people find the 13 inch screen too small

We had to buy a 2018 intel Mac mini over the m1 because of program compatibility. We didn’t want to but 2 major programs we use for music production are still not m1 compatible. I tried to hold out as long as possible for m1 compatibility but these smaller software companies couldn’t evern give me a ball park date for compatibility and our 2014 Mac was too slow to handle the load. @LukeMiani

The reason why is that intel are still going to have updates and thats what its all about. Both work fine for the con/prosumer. But at the end of the day 2010 mac pros are powerful but dont get MAC OS supports anymore.

You have a great setup. The lighting strip on the column is a great touch. The only thing I might change is your desk lamp that’s visible over your left shoulder. It’s a little too bright and draws my attention to it. Maybe a darker lampshade or dimmer bulb should solve that.

You have blindsided the fact that there are many software that still doesn’t run and people use their macs for work and not just browsing the Internet which an iPad can do.

I have a 2011 Macbook pro that I bought for $580 NZD. Upgraded OS to Big Sur. Still fulfills all my needs. Just changing its skin

Like the new look except for the desk light over your left shoulder to bright and annoying every time you move your shoulder

Good video. I had a similar 2019 16" MBP. 512 GB SSD, 32 GB of memory. Ran great. But, was noisy, heavy, and bulky. So I bought an M1 Air as a secondary machine. No fan, so silent. I discovered it could do everything I wanted and had a normal set of function keys. After 2 weeks with the M1 Air, the 16" MBP was sold. I can't ever imaging going back to such a noisy, heavy laptop.

I'll tell you why; it's because they're beautiful machines. That 2018 13 pro has amazing speakers, 4 thunderbolt ports, 16 ram, and is a beauty to use and hold etc and most people don't care about the other stuff.

one of the things to consider is that intel macs will not be officially offered from apple in less than two years. this adds to the idea of scarcity, which in conjunction with the social status brand awareness won’t allow for the prices to drop until they become fully unusable. also as mentioned by others, apple has apparently done a poor job of advertising the performance improvement of the new chip and they intentionally hide the GHz speed for secrecy, so people aren’t directly shown the difference.

Love your new studio!