Impressive review, thanks for testing on real hardware instead of some emulator. Just imagine if this masterpiece had been available for the C64 back in the early 80s.
Early 80's wouldn't be possible, the Commodore REU was introduced with the C128 in 1985. But in September 1985 Commodore also introduced the Amiga, so the C128 was doomed from the start.
@@gertachimrenel595 It's a good point, the game does rely on the REU for fast scrolling. I always forget how much the Amiga was ahead of it's time. Doing a good Sonic port for the Amiga should be no problem. Cheers, Jake
To be honest, third party solutions are a must nowadays for most commodore endeavours. old PSU's fail, as you saw some of the official stuff was expensive as hell, and we need to also use SD solutions for the best results. Oh and a tip about the turbo chameleon v2: it does more than C64 because you can flash extra cores to it. Mega Drive and Master System are among the supported ones but you may run into button limitations without a ps/2 keyboard instead of a controller. and yes, i do know the turbo chameleon's output is a little blurry so it's not your setup.
So *that's* what you needed them repaired for! Looks like a pretty good use to me :) The Commodore 128 CPU can run at 2MHz but the VIC-II can't, so the C128 still runs C64 stuff at the same speed as a regular C64. The SuperCPU is a much faster beast and runs differently so provides a large speed increase. Great video, though!
Sonic runs 2Mhz in the screen border, so can benefit from C128 speedup. However, the REU doesn't work reliably in 2MHz mode (this is documented in the manual), yet Sonic still accesses the REU in 2MHz mode. As a result, it is can be unstable on the C128. It seems wether your C128 can run in accelerated mode is mainly a matter of luck.
For all intents and purposes, it works on real hardware around the board for me and I'm sure most people in the space. I think the question "Does it work on _period correct_ hardware" probably means a lot more here to the userbase. The Commodore 64 is a general purpose computer, not a console, and beyond the Apple space, generally you don't get a majority of the base being die-hard purists like you would with a Nintendo or SEGA contemporaneous system, and generally care more about period correct things than pure things. Being an IBM PC collector myself, I'd be hard pressed to find someone that'd claim a game made for an XT didn't "run on real hardware" because one of the binaries only ran with the slightly expanded V20 instruction set or needed an EGA card with more memory than anything IBM ever offered. It's just a different set of values.
I just find it amusing that PAL users FINALLY come out on top and have the straightforward, streamlined experience for once in this series, whereas NTSC has to put more legwork in this time. Love your work Red, this was a joy to finally see!
You actually see that a lot in Commodore machines -- PAL (50Hz) timing leaves more time between each screen scan, meaning you have more time to write new stuff into the display buffer each frame. This is actually true in most consoles but it doesn't come up much because most of the games are developed in NTSC (America/Japan), then moved to PAL. The Commodore machines (especially the Amiga) were more popular in PAL territories, especially Europe, so there's a bunch of games that take advantage of all that extra time between frames. Many of those games and demos basically couldn't be done in NTSC at all. This would be why there so much screen tearing happening here -- there's just not enough time to update game logic and DMA all the new graphics into position in time.
@@birdrun4246 This was an utterly fascinating read-- thanks for laying it out! I'm not much of a technical sort, and while I know PAL and NTSC have a 10Hz difference (and that it does make a LOT of difference in many areas), I had no idea that Commodore machines were more routinely optimized for PAL territories. May I ask (if you happen to know) if that's why NTSC C64 Sonic 1 was outpacing its Master System counterpart, because it is trying to keep pace with its 60Hz requirements and struggling to do so, thus overcompensating and causing the screen tearing at the same time?
@@curly_girly19 The screen tearing in NTSC is almost certainly caused by the game not having enough time between frames to update as much of the screen as it needs to (due to the shorter VBLANK time in NTSC). I don't know why the C64 version is running faster, I'd need to do some deep research to figure that out. It's possible that the C64 is producing a marginally faster video clock than the Master System -- these things are not exact, after all, and game logic is tied in lockstep to the video refresh. It might just be oddness in how the port handles timing or a slight change to how the physics works, too.
@@birdrun4246 I knew it was a long shot as to whether you knew the exact reason why the C64 version was overclocking compared to the Master System, but thank you for taking the time out to reply anyway. There are so many possibilities and they're all so fascinating in their own ways- whether it's a spec of the hardware or just a quirk present within the port. I really appreciate you explaining this all so thoroughly. :)
Given the limitations of the hardware, even when using an accelerator, this is pure magic, tbh. I'm always extremely impressed, how far such geniuses actually can go...
Pinned by redhotsonic redhotsonic 1 year ago I have NOT forgotten about BDIWORH, and the next video will be a Mario hardware video too. With this video, I’m trying something short and sweet, seeing I see on RU-vid recently shorter videos seem to get people’s attention. STTP will not just be hardware related, but it could be short reviews, information on how I connect my consoles up for recording, and I’m debating Sonic news too but not sure on that part yet. Anyway, it would mean a lot if you liked this video to show if you want to see more STTP. Thanks for reading! 😊
I just got a C64 again (had one as a girl) and had no idea Sonic had a port on this thing. I can agree with you on the prices cause holy crap these things are expensive! I got EXTREEEEMELY lucky with my breadbox w/ floppy combo I found and snagged! (Only 125!)
I don't think I've ever heard of any commodore users caring about using well-made third party accessories before, it's just considered required to use the commodore line effectively nowadays.
Also, by your logic, both of the systems you got repaired would automatically give the game the partial rating to the game, since it's pretty unlikely that they were fixed with original c64 parts, it is alot safer, cost-effective, and generally better overall to fix old c64 systems with off the shelf, third party parts. Basically, the idea that third party items aren't real hardware, is a disservice to the idea of many fans preservation attempts.
@@UltimateExplosiveGaming I mean said third party parts are usually just the same Commodore bought back in the day to make them. Many of the chips are I thing still produced.
@@UltimateExplosiveGaming Basically every parts of the C64 are still produced nowadays, except the SID chip (the sound card). It uses almost exclusively off-the-shelf parts, that's one of the reason why it was so cheap to produce.
Just a summary: he and his wife thought that they needed to go on their own ways, so they decided to commence a divorce plus he probably needs to take care of his daughter
Just a summary: he and his wife thought that they needed to go on their own ways, so they decided to commence a divorce plus he probably needs to take care of his daughter
God, all gripes about how much this cost you aside, the fact that some absolute madman out there decided to make a 1:1 port of the Master System version of Sonic 1 to the C64 is truly a delight, from a technical standpoint. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go pick my jaw up off the floor after being so awestruck.
As far as I know Sonic the original on the SMS was 256K and Sonic2 on the SMS was 512K so these games were already massive on the Master System by Commodore 64 standards as the Sega Master System was able to handle up to 512 Kilobytes without bank switching.
In fact since the Commodore 64 uses floppy disks, I was also curious if hackers might make a Famicom Disk System port of Sonic as well (since the FDS uses floppy disks too), and even include some enhanced audio too, that’ll be incredible if hackers manage to do this. The amount of Sonic ports is very impressive actually. Now let’s also imagine people making a TurboGrafx-16/PC-Engine, Amiga, DOS or maybe even PlayStation 1, even though the latter is mainly a 3D system but hey, they could try and make a new engine for the game instead of emulating it. Lol
@@vytah Yeah I know that, but what I mean is on the Famicom Disk System, and see how much differences it can get than NES. Example, FDS has some better audio than NES and normal Famicom, meaning if it got an FDS port, maybe it could include enhanced audio too. That’s what I’m saying.
It was going to be ported to the Commodore Amiga too, but for some reason it got cancelled. Kind of a shame really, would've looked beyond nice with the bitmapped graphics and sample-based music.
hello Redhotsonic! I Am writing to wish you doing well! knowing what is going on with your life the past one year and how difficult and time consuming these videos are to make I genuinely hope you are doing well! and that I hope that whatever may come in the future that I am going to wait patiently for it! take care and best of wishes from a tech nerd and fan of your content!
You combined a genuine love for our little blue buddy with an honest critique. Nice work! I got the ntsc / pal switchable breadbin 64, turbo chameleon v2, 1541uII+, zoom Floppy, ramboard, burst nibbler, dolphinDOS, JiffyDOS, sidFx, pi1541, sd2iec, MMC64, RRNET, 1541 w/ track display, device ID switches, reset, ray Carlson power supplies, you get the picture: an investment. Aaaand for the life of me I can’t get sonic running here.
Fun fact: This is the _oldest_ comment on this video, making viloer vilo truely the first commenter! One can debate however of they were the first viewer, however.
For Megadrive users, NTSC might be the superior experience, but for us Commodore users, PAL is the superior experience. 20% more time to compute a frame is a big thing.
Kind of impressive, but too much work and money just to get it working. Sega should make a Master System Collection for PS4/PS5/Xbox. They only ever cover the Genesis.
I think I may be able to suggest something to get more useage out of the N64's, maybe for the next But Does It Work On Real Hardware video, you could test out the hack, "Super Sonic 64" by Thodds and Gamebun. It is a really impressive Super Mario 64 hack which differs greatly from the official Super Mario 64 game itself. When you do check this out, feel free to give this hack a go. You won't be disapppointed, if not impressed for what this hack has going for it. -A fellow subscriber
The funny thing for me seeing Sonic running around really fast on both the C64 and Master System here is thinking about how long Genesis fanboys went on and on claiming that the SNES couldn't do a game like Sonic because it was too slow . . . But at least that silly thought was finally put to bed once and for all in recent times: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-DlrxKECsogE.html
Sonic on C64: Exists Sega: Yeah, we're okay with this. Super Mario on C64: Exists Nintendo: NO NO NO WE WONT ALLOW THIS! TAKE IT DOWN! DESTROY ALL THE PHYSICAL COPIES! HAVE THE CREATOR HUNG DRAWN AND QUARTERED!
That's some strange fate shit right there... Was bored looking for vidoes, thought you had not put one up for a while so checked your channel, and BAM, new video just 30 minutes ago 👌
