You're welcome. Here is my advanced user guide for the FX3 if you'd like to check it out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fBNOwUaOE84.html
I am currently using the GH5 and I’m looking to buy the FX3. I’ve never heard of Cine EI before and stumbled upon your video. Despite being from Germany and not speaking perfect English, it was my first time encountering Cine EI, yet I understood almost 100% of what it is and how it works! Incredibly well-explained! You’ve earned yourself a subscriber!
Thank you so much for the explanation Josh! I just got the Sony FX3 and I’m so confused about the Cine EI mode. Even though I watched a few videos on RU-vid I still don't get it. But after watching your video, it helps me completely understand the Cine EI mode. Much appreciated! 🙌
Love it, it did a live stream without log and when switching back to Cine EI, I filmed bad clips which were underexposed. Not gonna happen in future any more with your help!
Hey thanks Josh. This video really helped me to understand the principles of shooting in Cine EI. Alistair Chapman confused and bored me but your video simplified things. Great work mate.
Great Video, great help for someone new to FX3 - this was very useful and easy to follow. I would vote yes on "run and gun" set up for outdoor on the FX3,
Great explanation. So I film in my garage purposely keep the lighting low. So sounds like I need to either pick 800 or 12800 and manipulate my aperture. I'll try this today for a video I'm filming
Great video Josh! I never heard of this mode until you told me about it with the previous firmware update video! Awesome stuff, and it's nice to know we have another way to use the FX3 for log shooting now. Like you said, a "race car" method of using the camera for video ;) Thanks for your efforts and looking forward to learning more, Jay
Love this, I just had two custom modes that set me up for 24p & 120p S&Q. I’d always stick at 640 and then spin the back dial a bunch to switch to 12800 when needed. Just added the ISO switch to move between the two with the ISO button on top and it’s just 🤌🏼
THANK YOU sooooo much!! Finally, someone who can explain something clearly!!! You saved me so much time as I’ve just bought this great camera, and couldn’t figure out what was this cineEI thing… THANKS!!!
Great video, thanks! So Cine EI is a different and guided failproof way to expose the image. On the background is basically doing the same as fixating the shutter at 1/50 (or 1/100, 1/200) base ISO at 800 (or 12800) and adjusting the exposure with Aperture/VND/Lighting recording SLog3 on a regular sony camera, only presented on a nicer way and aiming to MM0.0 instead of MM+1.7
Great video, thanks king. Explained very well. I'll have to rewatch it a few more times for it to fully click but that's more of a me problem. Thank you!
Well well well, looky here. I googled 'what is Cine EI and your video was the first'. So awesome to see, Josh! Great overview! That's interesting that the low base ISO of the FX3 is 800. On the A7SIII it's 640. I like the fact that it locks you in to the two base ISOs though. I rarely go outside that range in my A7siii. The thing that I'm not a fan of is how you're unable to change the S-Log3 settings. I've made a few tweaks to mine and it kind of sucks that that's not easily available.
Yo Dylan! That's great my video showed up in a Google search. Yeah it's weird that the base ISO is 800 in Cine EI but 640 in Flexible ISO on the same camera. Yeah, that is also weird how they took away the settings, but you can access those by turning log shooting off and setting up one of the picture profiles to Slog3 and you have access to all of the settings like you did before. It's a weird workaround for sure.
Thanks a lot for the really detailed explanation of Cine EI, I’m new in cinema line category using my new FX30 and it was really hard for me to understand how cine EI works. Greetings from Greece😊
It’s quite funny that they give consumers too many picture profile controls, and in more professional cameras (FS5,FS7,FX3,FX6,FX9) they limit a few things so you can’t do it wrong haha.
Just sent a small donation to your PayPal because of the time you spent on this video. I found this tutorial/guide extremely helpful. Thanks for posting!
A bit late to the party, but thanks, firest video about CINE EI that I can actually say, I.. mostly understand haha, got my FX30 a few days ago, will try and fail probably, but I will try ! Thank you
I like you, man, you're a cool guy and killing these videos. I'm on my third one, I think I'm binge-watching at this point, and I don't have my fx3 yet 😂
@@Josh_Sattin Hey there, how are you? Quickly, can I shoot in a Standard picture style, or must I continue in Rec 709(800) to keep these settings? I've been shooting with the settings recommended in this video. This is my first cinema line camera; I'm coming from a Sony A7. I ask because I'm in 8bit and want to retain optimum colors. Thanks for this video.
I have watched this video about 5 times now and am still terrified to shoot cine ei at some of these local sporting events I shoot. I just dont want to ruin my exposure. The lighting in some of these venues is always so terrible. I think im just going to go in with a base of 12800, I only have the 16-35 PZ F4 with a variable ND.
Very interesting video. So to see what you’re doing, you need the LUT on. But can you then see if you’re clipping highlights. Before you could set zebras to 94+ in SLog3 and then avoid a clipped file. Is there a zebra setting for LUT on which aligns with proper clipping in SLog3. I’m guessing that 100+ after the LUT doesn’t necessarily mean the SLog3 is clipping. Or?
Thanks! There are many ways to use this camera now. If you are using Cine EI you can turn the LUT on or off. If you turn the LUT off, it will judge exposure like it did before the update when you were in Slog3 with or without the Gamma Display Assist on. The Gamma Display Assist doesn't affect the exposure tools like zebras, histogram, etc. If you are in Flexible ISO or Cine EI with the S709 LUT on, its 45% for middle gray or 41% with the LUT off. I personally don't use zebras for a maximum luminance value. If I am doing something without controlled lighting, I rely on the histogram to make sure I am not clipping highlights. If you don't like how Cine EI and Flexible ISO work you can turn log shooting off and set any of the picture profiles to Slog3 and the camera will work exactly like it did before the update. Hopefully this was helpful. Thanks for watching!
I am so glad to have found this - the Cine EI function kept throwing me off but glad i watched this whole video. Quick question - when would you use a higher EI value?
I mention this in the video, but you can increase your EI to give you more dynamic range in the highlights, but I generally advise against this because the FX3 does well in the highlights and very rarely you don't have a scene that doesn't have any shadows at all.
So what I am used to doing with the A7 line is just pick the base ISO and never change that. Indeed like film or like how cine cams work with the best dynamic range in mind. And just change exposure through Lighting, ND, Aperture. And use a monitor with waveform and false Color to see where my skin tones are landing in relation to if it’s dark or bright scene, knowing if I’m over or underexposing for optimal highlight or shadow details.
Thanks🎉. One thing: when film cameras were used (not so long ago) you chose the ISO but the camera knew nothing about nothing. The Dop did all the decisions using his knowhow, lighting and colourmeters and the assistance of his/her 1st camera assistant.😂
Thanks for the guide! I’m completely new to the fx3 and slog3. I’m a bit confused about exposing with and without the lut. So what I read online is that someone recommended to expose without the lut first, because having the lut on changes the values, so expose without the lut and then with it’s properly exposed, apply the lut. It’s not recording with the lut baked in, so it makes sense to expose without the lut I guess. Here you mentioned that having the lut on also changes the values, but only on screen, not what is recorded. So why then do you change the exposure based on the lut, if it doesn’t change the actual values that are recorded but only what you see on screen?
Does the FX3 have "My Dial" (or whatever it's called) customizations like the a74 and a7s3? You can set a custom button to trigger different dial functions while holding it down. You could keep the shutter as that front dial that way, but only when holding down whatever other custom button you have programmed for it. No more accidental shutter speed changes!
Honest question: Even before this update I always shot at the two Base ISOs. Whenever I was in a dark scene I would just bump to 12800 and add an ND if needed or plat with aperture. How is this any different? I mean I understand the workflow slightly changes if you move your exposure index, but if you always keep it at Base, then its almost exactly like before when you would keep ISO at Base as well, right?
Great question! I was also wondering if there are any other differences. I'd like to compare the images and see if there are any subtleties. One thing that seems weird to me was that the base ISO before was 640 and now in Cine EI it is 800. Makes me think it was 800 the whole time so maybe something is going on there. Not sure.
The only difference, is that now you can set 2 settings.. which base iso u want (800 or 12800) and then which EI you want. When you go up or down in EI you are changing where your dynamic range is. You get 16 stops, but do you want more of them in the shadows? If so then lower EI.. if you have a scene with mostly highlights, then go up in EI and it will prioritize the highlights and give you more stops if dynamic range there. That is it, no more no less. It changes the normal model upside down.. normally we’d add iso in the dark. In this case, stay at base iso but the lower EI setting is what you want when you need to capture more shadow detail, and a higher EI is what you want when you want to capture more highlight detail. Done.
6:16 I wish my sIII had that menu. I would love to have iso on the front dial but i can only swap Av/Tv >_> Sony finally needs to bring all the cool new software stuff to the sIII. Even the cheaper IV has it
Hi, yes great explanation. Please could you do the outdoor settings video. I watched the Cannon explanation but that used false color. I guess the sony equivalent is use LUT and set zebras to 75 but something better than guess would be good. Thanks again
Thanks! I am hoping to make a Sony specific video soon, but check out this video because it will be pretty similar. I don't use false color in this video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-JCDaz1Ewirg.html
Thanks Josh! It was much easier to understand new functions of 3.0 firmware. But I have a question not about it. Can you say please how are you recording screen menu from camera?
Dearest, I follow you from Italy, thanks for your work. I can't help but notice the enormous noise in every one of your videos. Don't move do the basic iso. Why? Many youtubers say that Sony recommends lowering the low base ISO or the high base ISO to reduce grain, why don't you do it?
QUESTION: In flexible ISO mode, if you manually set it to 800, is that essentially the same as using the base ISO? (even though it was a manual operation)
The crux is that EI will only change the MLUT , it does nothing else , zero , zilch , no LUT ,the evf doesn't change . Its very simply a way to set a universal exposure off set to the underlying slog. Just like setting a light meter differently to the ISO written on the can. and usually you are "over exposing ' to bring down in post, to get a better signal to noise ratio , but really with these FF sensors you very rarely need to even do that , expose to the right is 10 year old s35 sensor work flow. Expose to your MLUT levels and the underlying slog will be totally fine. There is nothing difficult about it , except the folks that want to shoot with an slog image in the EVF , and try to expose with crunched up WFM , not be able to judge their lighting or see the focus .. use the LUT young sky walker ..
Does the technique you applied to shifting the EI down to 400 for retaining shadow info apply to when you're shooting in low light at ISO 12800? I'm assuming that if the priority is to retain highlights, you'd just go the other direction on the EI index?
If I am a 3 year old, what is the reason you'd want to change your exposure on the LCD if it doesn't bake that exposure in the file? What is the point of the exposure index if it doesn't change anything?
Yo dude! This video was so helpful thank you! I just have one very bizzare question for you - my Sony monitor screen looks the same as yours with a different look to the battery percentage etc. Mine is exactly the same, the audio channels don't appear where everyone else's does? Why do ours look different to everyone else's? I thought I had bought a fake FX3 for a sec
I've watched hundreds of video about CINE EI and yours is easier. But I still don't fully get why we can change our ISO (to 400 like in your exemple), if the camera will record in its 800 ISO base anyway. It wont change anything on the camera and in the final video. So why would anyone would change his ISO to see something else than the base ISO and what he will get in post? Should we not work from the base ISO without ever changing the EI with our four ways to correct exposure (lighting, aperture, ND and changing base) ? OR maybe when we say "remember the camera will still recording at ISO 800" we forgot to say that if we change the EI at 400 we are still changing a parameter in the dynamic range? I would be eternally grateful if you could answer me on that 🙌🙌🙌
Yes if you change the EI, you are still recording at the base ISO. I would recommend that you rewatch this video. The EI is an exposure tool to accurately over or underexpose the image to push the dynamic range to the shadows or highlights.
Hi Josh, great video. One question: What is the difference between "S-Gamut3.Cine/Slog3" and just "Gamut3/S-Log3"? Which would you recommend for best quality. Thanks!
amazing concise explanation. how do you load the S709 LUT into the camera? You use that LUT just as a viewing mechanism for easier viewing, because youll eventually apply a REC709 LUT in post anyways right? but really the camera is still recording in SLOG 3 flat profile? and yes! please do a video on the fx3 for run and gun exposure, thank you!
Hi josh , quick question , is this the actual way to shoot on cine ei? I read the alister Chapman article about cine ei saying what you said but on the RU-vid Sony official page they say you just change the ei without changing lighting or any exposure tools . I’m confuse about this please help
Quick newbie’s question from my side. Time 14:38 - When you changed the index, setting the iso to 400 and open the aperture to get more informations from the shadow. Is it the equivalent of saying “exposing to the right jargon”? Thanks in advance
Sort of yeah, but you don't change the ISO. You also can accurately judge exposure and get it one stop over by setting the EI to 400 when at the base ISO of 800.
Thanks for the explanation! I just want to make sure I’m understanding you correctly because the whole constant recording at base ISO/changing ISO just in camera is a really confusing concept for me. So are you saying that no matter what, in Cine EI mode the camera will always be recording at either 800 ISO or 12800 ISO (which I understand), but then if you change the ISO, the exposure you’re seeing is only on the screen and does not reflect the actual exposure that is being recorded to the file (which I also understand)? But the part that confuses me that I want to make sure I do understand is, the purpose of doing something like changing the ISO knowing it’s not actually changing the recorded ISO. The dynamic range value of highlights and shadows (shown on the chart) is dependent on different ISO values, but that wouldn’t make sense if no matter what your camera is being recorded at either 800 or 12800, that would make every other ISO irrelevant… unless what I think you’re saying is true, which is, it seems like you’re saying - that chart is showing the different dynamic range values you get if you simulate* a different ISO value and nail the exposure accordingly for that simulated ISO value (I’m using the word simulate because it seems like that’s what you’re doing when you change the ISO in camera since it doesn’t actually change the ISO of the final video file), resulting in the final video file (at the base ISO of either 800 or 12,800) being either over exposed or under exposed on purpose, resulting in you being able to get more information in either the highlights or shadows for your intended needs? Sorry for typing so much, I just want to make sure I fully understand this concept because it is really difficult to comprehend for someone who’s never heard of a technique like this…
You are close. When in Cine EI mode, you can not change the ISO from either 800 or 12,800. You can change the EI, but all this does is change how the image appears and the monitoring tools. This is an exposure guide to force you to over or underexpose to push the dynamic range into the highlights or shadows. You are not changing the image whatsoever by changing the EI.
+Alexander Forde You're completely right about this, I'm a bit confused too, but I think the bottom line is by exposing "correctly" for a simulated lower/higher ISO, you may be losing detail in the opposite end of the spectrum, but it's just the idea of gaining detail in the shadows by lowering ISO, or gaining detail in highlights by increasing ISO. But there is a risk of losing detail at the other end too of course, it's just a way of accurate exposure without actually changing ISO at all.
"Depending on the EI set as you monitor images at the time of shooting, you can use the Catalyst Prepare Plugin in post-production to reproduce the appearance as monitored." I think the point of changing the appearance on screen is that you want to reproduce it in post. Done this way will produce better image than say applying those monitored settings straight outside cine EI mode (therefore, both as monitored and recorded). Not sure if my understanding is correct.
If EI confuses you, put it on flexible ISO and use this like a normal alpha camera, or any photo camera for that matter. Use EI if you want to get used to how real cinema cameras work, where they always shoot in native or dual iso, where EI allows you to allocate where your dynamic range goes. Arri works this way, Red works this way, Mavo, works this way, etc…. This was a strong move by Sony to start differentiating the FX3 from the a7siii!!
It bogles my mind they would release Cine EI mode and not add something as basic as shutter angle into the firmware update. False color as well. It still feels like a A7SIII without an EVF and larger profit margins for Sony. If they named it FX shouldn't it have Sony FX cine features?
@@willvazquez3218 u said you agree then go on to say everything I don’t agree with lol. Cine EI is good if you know what you’re doing. U don’t have to use it so use flexible iso and stop complaining. Yes the zebras change because each lut has a different way to expose it. If it stayed the same you’d lose the usability of the lut you’re using. Professional luts also provide that data, so you can set it accordingly. This is a feature aimed at professionals, but again, if you don’t like it, go into flexible iso and choose a picture profile instead of a lut. Make one of them slog 3 and you’re back to the way u used to work. If you understood the flexibility they’ve provided in this update then you’d appreciate being able to use the FX3 as a bcam to fx6, fx9, and Venice, that all work that way… exposure is different based on the lut. Before FX3 was the only one that violated out of the 4 cameras, and now it’s in-line with them. Get an a7siii if you want the regular older way to shoot vs the cinema way..
@@jessejayphotography agreed, false color & shutter angle would put it over the edge. This is a great starting point however, and just the beginning. I don’t think they’ll be without shutter angle and false color for too long.
@@willvazquez3218 1. Zebra’s measuring for exposure is amateurish, pros are using false color and light meters. 2. MOST SETS are monitoring through a lut, even if it’s just the log to arri c 709 lut. 3. Pick your mic back up because knowing your lut and how you expose is the best way to ensure how your images looks, in camera and on set. It’d be foolish to just expose however on set and then fix in post. Most pros want to do their best to get the look IN CAMERA. You cannot do that using zebras to measure log with no idea of the post workflow or look/lut intended in the final image.
Hey Josh! Thank you for the explanation, but does this mean no more ETTR in exposition process? I mean there is no sence if you use EI to expose ebove 0.0
You're welcome. ETTR is always a personal decision. You can still ETTR if you want to by lowering the EI. If you want to ETTR by 1 stop for example, just lower the EI from 800 to 400 and then expose normally. The EI is essentially an exposure assist tool.
Hi Josh. May I ask you a stupid question? Why, when I’ve selected to record with S-log3 lut, and I hit the button to show the image with lut, it makes any difference? And it works with rec 709 selected… :/ Thanks
I don't see a difference between exposing to the right by aperture using one of the base isos and cine ei. By using catalyst or any other software you can bring the exposure down in post and preserv e dynamic range. By exposing to the right using zebras you achieving better noise performance in scenes like you showed.
Cheers for the breakdown and info handy to know. I do have one part bit confused by the two modes. If place camera into ISO mode and Then test scene in cine ei Both same iso settings, shutter and aperture with LUT preview enabled the cine ei is dark and hard to see the image. Not sure why this is when matched exact same settings in controlled environment? Surely should produce sake image when viewing?
I think what peps like me find confusing is that when you change the Exposure Index it does not change the exposure. More fundamentally: as Cine EI is, well, a cine camera approach it works best if you have tight control over the lighting. Which you normally have in a cine use case. So this is not so suitable for run&gun filming with fast changing, uncontrollable lighting conditions. This is where the flex ISO setting is preferrable.
It's all personal preference. I use Cine EI almost exclusively and for a lot of run and gun type stuff. Low or high base and then control the exposure with aperture and/or ND.
