@@Legba85 i mean Jhon is right on this one, if u disrespect the wife u disrespect the man. fak the money, ralph aint jesus u can get another guy to do what he does. Carmine faked up
@@josephclarke557because he lied to Paulie about Carmine knowing him, when Paulie was considering joining the NY family. He was using Paulie for info and Paulie got nothing out of the deal, but high hopes.
Also it wouldn't be helpful for Johnny if he wants to get cozy with another Jersey mobster. Not only would Tony be watching like a hawk, the potential moles would know Johnny isn't going to keep them safe.
I think he also just doesn't really care to make small-talk with the has-been ex-boss of the glorified crew from Jersey. Wants to get to the fuckin point of the whole meeting
Carmine is the only real boss in the history of the show. Totally unemotional, all about what's best for business, while John (and Tony in other situations) act like pissed off teenagers that make business decisions based on emotion. Carmine is levels above both of them.
The way Tony turned it all back on Johnny by making him reveal his source was a masterstroke in negotiation. And he had every right to play that card. The beauty is,Tony is covering up for Ralph because he was right there laughing at the joke. So it's his ass out there on the line as well. But he knows Johnny can't play his Ace card. Brilliant writing!
@@gonesville6873 But he then adds his own joke when they are making fun of her again. "When she hauls ass, she's gotta make 2 trips." Or something like that. :D
Was John unable to mention he was talking to Paulie at all? Would that have been viewed as a violation to Carmine and Tony? Even if he presented as if they were casually talking?
All about appearances and to not draw attention.. old school way of thinking.. you got a big ass house and ur a consultant in a garbage company, puts you in the cross hairs of the irs/feds
I noticed that too. He was mostly a business man, cultured with manners. He loved his Jenny. If we could somehow place her at the Ukraine/Russia border, she would tilt Ukraine so that Russian troops would fall back into Russia.
Man it’s really easy to see how everything goes to shit when Carmine dies. He’s clearly got the respect of everyone, the second that’s gone they (New Jersey and New York) immediately start killing each other over anything.
Yep I compared him to Marcus Aurelius in Roman history. He was considered one of the last Caesar’s to rule in peace and unity. After his death there was infighting, corruption and eventual collapse. Carmine was Marcus Aurelius for the family. He brought stability and a level head and his death brought needless bloodshed and war.
@@tjanderson5892 In the first season when jr had a failed hit on Tony and they started taking out jr's crew they were planning on hitting junior too until he got arrested.
Junior’s recommendation at the end was actually quite good. It would have hurt Ralph financially, but avoid the unseemliness of “naming a price” for his wife’s honour. Too bad Johnny walked out before hearing it.
@@SangreFriasBack Some people are better at being no.2 Silvio and Junior both have status but also a lack of charisma and authority. They're weirdos, even by mob standards. Tony basically treated his uncle like a windshield and the less said about Silvio's brief run the better
Tony usually is impulsive and insecure but in this scene he held his own and showed true leadership here. He could figure out Johns game, and you can see the fear in his eyes when he says “Alright fine, YOU tell me who said it we’ll bring him in hea.”
@@Mr._X84 i don’t think so. Lol I’m pretty sure he got dressed up specifically for his meeting of the bosses. He was getting cabin fever being on house arrest during his trial and started lookin forward to literally anything and everything to get through his dayd
He was the only boss in the show who was competent. Tony was a headcase and tolerated too much bullshit from his men, Johnny was too emotional, the Shah of Iran was too stubborn and hotheaded. Carmine was always cool, calculatuing and thinking three steps ahead.
@@hizkealbishaw3487 maybe but it would go both ways at that point. I wouldn’t even be surprised if John spilled the beans on paulie here that Carmine says to Tony “okay let’s just whack John and paulie and call it a day.” That’s probably the most likely thing to happen. And Tony would 100% agree on that because John is or can be unreasonable and paulie talks too much.
@@mastod0n1 Not a continuity error. It shows you how bad of a chain smoker he is, foreshadowing his cancer. But DAYUM does he look cool while doing it.
He pretty much *won* the sit down with that. What he suggested was reasonable and would solve all the problems at issue. Carmine knew it too, thats why he looked at Johnny. Johnny was screwed at that point. Rat out Pauly and admit to sticking your nose right in NJs business, or deal with it and STFU.
@@HighLordBlazeReborn I agree, Tony knew Johnny very well and knew he would never give up his source. He certainly wouldn't have shed any tears for Ralph but I don't think he wanted him dead at that point, Ralph was the best earner he had. Ralph sure had a way with people, though. I wonder if he had any idea how close he had come to getting whacked and on how many occasions, before he finally did push things too far.
Johnny Sac knew he was stuck in between a rock (Carmine) and a hard place (Tony). Johnny couldn't give up Paulie because Paulie was feeding him too much valuable information and Paulie would probably be murdered by the Sopranos for talking family business. Tony knew he could press John as much as he wanted because Johnny didn't have a leg to stand on. Amazing writing, they thought of everything.
Every time I see Carmine on this show, he reminds me of being perhaps the only character on this show that could have been a mob boss during the Godfather era. Everyone else is Goodfellas, but Carmine is cut from a different cloth. His one that one boss you could not help but respect. Even when he was causing you grief.
He was the most practical because he'd seen the most and dealt with the most, but the biggest factor I think was beating his RICO trial. Thats a LOT of money to do that and at this point in his life he just wanted money to flow.
Bobby was the only decent one out of everyone that didn’t have an attitude and did what he was told. Fucking shame he got killed off. Would’ve preferred him over paulie to be standing last at the end
Paulie was the luckiest guy in the world throughout the series. It is not so apparent the first time watching through, but when you sit back and look at all the various scenarios where he could've been killed - often due to his own ineptitude or poor choices - wow, man.
proves that, despite being exceptionally clever in some cases, Junior has no idea just how out-of-the-loop he really is. Well, at least until he gives up and takes his meds in season 6
It was because Paulie was in prison at the time and only Heard about it from his nephew. Jonny sac knew if he named Paulie then they can say he wasn't at the dinner.
Love the look Carmine gives John when Tony offers Ralph’s head in exchange for the rat like “This is the best offer you’re going to get, take it or leave it.”
Ralph and Johnny really foreshowed the war between the families. It was mainly the quick temper of Johnny that started the war, and it’s shown here that Johnny wanted to whack the CAPTAIN of another family all because of a joke. Hell, even Carmine thought it was crazy and put a hit on Johnny.
There was always tension under the surface. Tony resented he needed to kick up money to NY even though he was boss of his “glorified crew”, and they in turn have little respect for NJ only letting them conduct business cuz it filled their pockets.
I mean John is being unreasonable. You can't just clip somebody over hearsay. If you could then everybody would do it. I know Ralph did say it, but John didn't actually hear it.
I mean Tony’s right, the beef is really more in Tony’s corner considering Paulie (or in their eyes “somebody”) talking the way they are could mean bigger issues in regards to the feds. If they’re this loose lipped about a joke what are they liable to say when and if feds get ahold of him?
@@sergiomendoza4850 How is that John's problem? Tony has the rat in his family not John, John didn't ask for this information he was given it for free, so to catch the rat, you want ME to rat in front of my boss? That's the checkmate, Tony was not correct, he won this whole ordeal with a single sentence.
You know this scene is deeper than I thought. I just noticed something, out of watching this scene so many times. Carmine disrespected John here big time, and tony knew it also. He shut john down but also insulted him in front of another family. I think this may be one of the reasons John wanted to trade on him.
How did he disrespect him? I'm not saying he definatly didn't, but at some point a boss has to say "cut it out" if someone of his family is unreasonable, even if it's infront of others. But yeah, this def factored into Johns decision to have Carmine whacked.
Carmine was justified in doing that, his underboss is acting like a pissed off teenager in front of the boss of another family, and he wants to whack one of the mobs best earners all over a stupid fat joke, so he has to put him in his place
Well that's because in real life the mafia refers to made men as "friends of ours." It's how introductions were made without having to come right out and say that you're in the mob. The Sopranos writers didn't invent it.
The scene after John stares at Carmine where it’s silent and Tony looks down is f’n superb, brilliant acting - Tony was taken back and embarrassed for John after getting told off in front of everyone
@@andrewbecker9062 I’m making point here... you gotta take traffic into account... now the other thing, apologize for what you said.... eating ice cream like some fucking king??
As an ex-smoker of cigarettes, I'm after many years finally free from phantom smells of cigarette smoke from watching people smoke in tv-shows and movies. Except for this scene, this scene fills my home with smoke.
Geez man after I stopped I understood why other people get disgusted because I get disgusted too and cannot believe I used to smoke... I look down on smokers now! What a hypocrite I am
I need to quit. I quit drinking 2 years ago, and the amount of money I save every weekend is amazing. If I can successfully quit smoking, I'll be golden.
Tony knew it was Paulie too, but he didn't KNOW it was Paulie. If he had proof, Paulie would have been keeping Big Pussy company. He very nearly ended up that way as it was.
@@brucetucker4847 don’t know if Tony would of necessarily killed him, it would of cost Pauli’s a lot though. He wasn’t a big earner like the others, a gangster more than businessman like Vito and Ralph
Taking his leave as soon as it was set up. I'm surprised Jr. wasn't very suspicious (even though we know Bobbi). I'm reminded of "Paulie" in the Godfather. His taking the day off was all it took for him to die over the steering wheel out in the country. We know why, but why wasn't Bobbi looked at similarly - especially when multiple high level targets were gathered in the same place.
@@dj3114 because there was zero implication that anyone wanted jr dead he was only boss by title. And the character bobby was the least violent of all the gangsters
@Hyper jones So was Paulie. Low level people can be more easily influenced. I'm not saying that Jr. would be suspicious, but I'm just commenting that Jr. was surprised he wasn't going to be there, even though I'm sure he had been told. Just making a comparison between the two that had different outcomes.
@@dj3114 I feel like the logic here the less people talking about a potential hit the better. Bobby was keeping himself out of the know on purpose here.
Carmine has perfect poker face. And in real life, if anybody throws a temper tantrum about what a boss says and storms off like a 12-year-old girl, they tend to disappear.
@@tapset He may have been on trial, but he was definitely dressed for the sitdown. Junior was a peacock and supposedly old school. This was a brief return to normalcy for him lol
"If this were years ago, would I even have had to ask?" *To kill a made guy in another family because you heard a rumor? Yeah, I'm pretty sure you would have had to ask.*
@9SecondStreetMustang I came here from that video with Michael Franzese. Michael said that the cell would still be tapped. So the feds would still be able to listen in. He also said that 'allegedly' was the keyword to say, "Yeah, this is just a waste of all our time. Good day."
I'm no expert at the series but it strikes me as John still playing the long con here. Paulie was formidable in many ways, but he wasn't necessarily the brightest. He was being played like a fiddle by John, and John saw him as a long-term asset.
Funny how confident and cool Junior is talking to Carmine. Like even at the start asking Bobby where he is going. Tony and Johnny Sack always were a little more cautious or respectful. Junior too cool for that.
I just realized the only reason that Johnny made even more fuss is because Paulie being a rat to Johnny was way too valuable in the past so he elected not to have a huge asset killed.
“Who’s that, Tony?” It’s very telling that Junior’s opening contribution to the sit-down was a question of utter confusion. Afterward, he goes on to continue asking questions, most of them obvious. He is completely out of touch with all family business.
You say that, but he was right to ask how Sack knew about it if he wasn't there and was 100% correct in his conclusion that Tony was correct. Honestly, Junior was the best reader of people on the cast. (So long as a beautiful woman wasn't in the room.)
@@Delightfully_Bitchy oh no doubt, you make a good point. Junior, up to a specific point before the dementia really settled in, continued to have genuine intuitive moments where he read a person or a situation perfectly (warning Richie about Janice’s true nature)…. but those moments were typically undercut with instances of him being a squirrelly old loon who gets his hand trapped in sinks for hours. After those embarrassing moments, whatever influence he had as a “semi-retired” don was essentially undermined. The way this scene ends also perfectly exemplifies that.
James Gandolfini said it in an interview with 60 minutes. The writing on this show was simply incredible. Too bad they killed Carmine off as well, he was excellent.
