You know the best part? This is a Reaver convergence, when two incarnations of the sword are confronted. This is one or those rare occasions in wich history can be changed. So, Moebius is well justified to be afraid. At this moment, his omniscience is worth nothing and his death thirty years latter is no longer certain. So, when he says "I've taken an enormous risk by appearing here before you", he is, for once, being sincere.
Yes. however he did know he had ot show himself here. if he chose not too, then he would no longer be able ot predict Raziel jeopardizing his grand plan for him.
This Mobius has yet to meet young Kain in the Blood Omen Era, twisting his ways into the Sacrifice. Without him in the way, Kain would still be a vampire, just without the Soul Reaver, therefore the Nemesis would win unchallenged and Kain's leutenauts wouldn't be raised.
@@Death_Korps_Officer They are in front of the tomb of William the Just AKA the Nemesis so he's already dead, the timeline has already been changed. BO Kain will also emerge 30 years later from one of Moebius Timestream devices with the Soul Reaver because of the altered story (thats how he alters history by having a Reaver convergence while wielding the BO Reaver when he kills William with that had a past Reaver breaking the past Reaver in the process). Moebius only concern in there is that a Reaver convergence can change history so had Raziel killed him there he would die for sure, not only that but the two reavers would have devoured his soul tearing it apart making sure not even the Elder God could ressurect him. Also with Moebius dead the Vampire Hunters would probably never catch Vorador during BO so Kain wouldn't be the last vampire.
I like how he does the same "turn towards the camera" trick to show his true expression, but this time it isn't a knowing smile but "Oh shit I might actually be fucked."
In a messed up sort of way, Moebius was the last soul Raziel consumed before willfully entering the Soul Reaver. Even if the Reaver was pure and sanctified, I don't think Raziel would have ever surrendered to be absorbed until the Time-Streamer's soul itself was taken out of the picture.
You prolly dont give a damn but does anyone know of a method to log back into an instagram account..? I was stupid lost my password. I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me.
@Thatcher Theodore I really appreciate your reply. I found the site through google and I'm in the hacking process now. Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
When two Soul Reavers are present at the same time, it creates a paradox, which can allow the timeline to be changed. While Raziel was holding Soul Reaver, with the spirit of both the blade from the present and from Raziel's own time combined, Raziel can strike Moebius down and change history. At this moment, he could have disrupted everyone's plans effortlessly.
@@DutchGuyMike Good luck finding a pawn capable of time travel like Moebius is. The only reason the elder god's plans can transcend time and space is because of who his best pawn is.
Raziel When Raziel fights his former Sarafan self, there is no wraith in the blade, that’s why there is no sensation of displacement and vertigo when Raziel wields it. Therefore there are only three Raziels in that fight as well.
That blade didn't have Raziel Soul, in this timeline Raziel is trapped in the soulreaver after he killed kain, in the ending of SR2 he fuses with the blade because the reaver was entangled with the wraithblade and that one can't devour his own soul.
They did meme of that, though i can`t find it- this last scene is "Soul Reaver 2". Raziel stabs Raziel with Raziel... And Sarafan Raziel, with Blood Reaver firmly in his gut, says "What the Hell?" to which Wraith one responds "Yeah, even i am confused..."
@@Rafesco yes he was because in this scene Raziel says he could feel the presence of an entity in the blade deranged from thousands of year of imprisonment and also mention it later in the game at the end
God, I hate Mobius so much. Just watching him regain his composure as he mentions the Elder, watching that horrible shit-eating grin crawl back just makes me want to punch him in the face at least a few dozen times. Oh, if only Raziel had just killed him then and there. Granted, Mobius would've been resurrected one way or another, but still, that would have been so, SO satisfying to see.
if raziel killed moebius here it would ahve been a huge paradox that would change history to the same levle of the 3 other major paradoxes in the story
@@Teixas666 I always wondered what would be of Nosgoth if Raziel killed Mobius here. For one, there would be no crusade against the vampires in the young Kain time, Vorador wouldn't be killed, and maybe, the young Kain wouldn't be able to complete his journey to redeem the circle. I still believe the circle would have fallen, since it's implied the Hylden had a vital role in those events. I can only imagine a Nosgoth were the vampire run amok, far earlier than Kain's empire, Kain embraces the circle's corruption, and Raziel is imprisioned in the reaver anyway.
I don't think he could be revived, his soul will be consumed by raziel or the reaver, Mobius fear him in that moment because Raziel consuming souls is true death
I cant believe moebius would make a mistake like this its out of character he knows everything a thousand years prior and to think of it Raziel and Moebius should've teamed they would be unstoppable Moebius can save raziel from his fate by disabling his wraith blade forever and Raziel can bring balance back to the world destroy the vampires destroy the hylden
he had ot expose himself here ot make sure Raziel did what he expected him ot do, but he knew that if raziel decied ot kill him here he couldnt do anything about it and it would derail his whole plan but that's jsut it , he had or risk himself otherwise raziel would become unpredictable for him@@ljklmoiaoklmlljkajksjdklfm503
Move these pawns the right way.... or fail your god. He took "the high road" in his head, but he should've been afraid. This was definitely a time where you see Moebius's cowardice and religious zealotry. "The Wheel of Fate demands it" is what sways Raziel, but the irony is that it's not because of religious reverence. It's because this moment reveals Moebius's true character, a fearful man struggling to find the strongest religious figure in existence to shield him from inevitability. For a guy who spent so much time accruing knowledge of the ages, he never learned it where it counted.
@Son Gohan but that the thnig in this scene while holding both reavers, Raziel is on the verge of a paradox, this paradox is strong enough to derail history. at that moment Moebius's Death at the hands of Kain in 30 years is no longer a certain event and his omniscience is worth nothing. At that moment moebius is nothing more than an old man in eyes of History. the only thing that saved him here was the mention of the wheel of fate, hinting raziel that he is a servant of the EG.
Teixas is that why everything looks like it’s in a tangle because it’s either paradox or what was to happen? I tried understanding this lore but can’t lol I been playing since soul reaver 1 came out on a demo disc lol
I just realized the subtle manipulation I guess in the phrase "how mine? Don't forget it was Kain who led you here not I" because it was his trap Kain led him to the past yes but Moebius pulled him out of the time stream so he could find the reaver and kill Kain with it later thus the line "Kain led you here" is also used to further fuel his hatred.
Kain, in hopes of preventing this, went back in time himself, and killed William the Just before he became The Nemesis... this instilled a genocidal hatred, as Raziel calls it, towards vampires into his kingdom, creating the vampire hunters we see throughout the series. It was all Moebius' plan, to wipe out the vampires.
And in turn it was part of the Elder God's plan due to seeing vampires as a blight now, not something he could manipulate in his so-called "Wheel of Fate" due to the Hylden cursing them with immortality after their defeat. And how Moebius was used by the Elder for his own ambitions, while Mortanius was able to see that Nosgoth *NEEDED* the vampires to reclaim the Pillars to keep the Hylden locked away forever.
The thing is, King William was implied to have become the Nemesis because of Moebius's manipulations. Moebius gave King William weapons that corrupted him.
there will never be a game like the Legacy of Kain series, the amount of work that goes into their scripts is something not even the witcher will ever have. why can't we get the final game of this masterpiece of a saga?
Because it is best left to imagination, I feel. There has been so many conflicting things in the storyline and it is rather fascinating, and to have a conclusive ending in which everything is laid clear would be counter-intuitive and destroys on of the things the series does incredibly well.
@@capitanspoiler7393 Oh yeah believe me I would really want to see that too, the Elder God can finally fear him and hopefully die - which would purify the entire world in essence as he has highjacked the wheel of fate :D
@@DutchGuyMike yep, i'd be so hyped for an ending chapter...then i remember that we are in 2022 and that talent is a rare thing nowadays, so it would inevitably end up being a watered down version of "the popular thing of the moment" instead of an actual sequel to the legacy of kain franchise T^T
@@capitanspoiler7393 Sadly the entire series has been mostly watered down as the developers wanted to make much larger and encompassing games but they lacked the funds to do so and had to always cut back on parts of games :(
In this scene, we see two Soul Reavers ocupying the same space at the same time, one inside the broken physical blade and the other bound to Raziel. Being in the same place is enough to cause a paradox. Moebius was right to be scared.
I love this game and this whole story, but i just can't hold myself back form laughing everytime i see Moebiu's absolute gigantic hands.
8 лет назад
So at this point the spirit inside the Reaver (Raziel) and the still material Raziel collapse one with each other, thats why he says that he felt another entity inside the reaver, so one of them has to take control, in this case the Raziel inside the Reaver (I think) wich granted the spiritual Reaver the capacity of consuming souls... And on the other hand, Moebius always knew that Raziel was able to carry out his free will, making him able to kill Moebius at any time, that's why he sais that he made a risk by facing Raziel unarmed, but he also knew that Raziel wasn't going to kill him at that moment... I still don't understand many things of this history, wich is awesome.
in this scene Moebius lucked out majorly(throwing otu the fact he serves the elder god Saved him) If Raziel was as assertive as Kain was HE would have died right then and there derailing his plans, butthisalso shows how calculated he is in his knowledge he knew he had ot show uip there and risk actual death
I played this as a kid funny enough and never finished it till a few years later, but it definitely sucked cause I’m like,”Wait! No! Don’t leave awesome swoooord behind!”
As a kid, Yes, Absolutely hated that raziel threw away the reaver. As an Adult...I now understand that it was wise Raziel threw it away. given his horrible connection to the blade.
It's only one Reaver but from different timelines: Raziels' soul reaver (that spectral blade attached to his arm) and the original blade on Williams tomb. The final blade from the future has both the physical blade and Raziels sword so this is the historical moment when the sword was repaired (kinda of). Raziels' sword eats souls exactly like him to mantain itself.
Richard Doyle as Moebius kicks so much ass. The script is amazing and the direction is great and Michael Bell works wonders with him but Doyle went through so many emotions at once. First off, since the Reavers collided and history could change he was actually acutely aware of the danger, so he had to suggest fear in every dialogue, but he started with manipulation by accusing Kain, self-righteousness by boasting how good of an ally he's being, fake begging mixed with smarm and fear, actual outright begging, then abject horror (he stutters, something he never does unless on purpose), then hope, then a tangential devotee fanaticism around the Elder God, then an attempt at kinship by saying he and Raziel serve the same God, as if Raziel was supposed to give a shit and well knowing how cruelly the Elder God will treat Raziel in the future, back to confidence when he realizes what he said worked and Raziel isn't going to kill him anymore, and a final metric ton of smarm to rub it in. What a fucking amazing performance
The Reaver that Kain has in Defiance is the Blood Reaver, the one that Kain pulled out of Raziel at the end of SR2. There's only one Reaver, the Reaver that William and Kain used in BO1 are the same one, just from different eras. Kain *must* return the Soul Reaver to the Sarafan Stronghold, from the same era he got it in, after Defiance so that both William and his younger self can later obtain it.
Blah, my post disappeared. *Tries again* I know all about The Lost Worlds, been all through their stuff (and my own BO1 and SR1 discs, too). I've also been all through Dark Chronicle and Nosgothic Realm. I know most of the LoK history by heart at this point~ Working on novelizing the series so that requires a crap-ton of research.
At 2:21 - "But the reaver knew better then to destroy its host, and as I neared the brink of oblivion, released its hold on me." The second time, it doesn't cut him the same courtesy. This is how I've always seen it, anyway.
Sir William *is* Nemesis. Moebius traveled through time, gave William the Just armaments and instilled in him the belief that he could be a conquerer, and he did - he became known as the Nemesis, and his armies spread over Nosgoth, conquering everything.
I thing that isn't right. If Raziel turns the Soul Reaver into the Blood Reaver by absorbing his future soul in the blade, the Reaver wouldn't break in the future when Raziel meets Kain after his redemption.
No, the Soul Reaver doesn't revert to the Blood Reaver when he repairs it. All Raz does is restore the blade, nothing more. His future self is still bound inside it (which is what drives the paradox that lets him spare Kain later) until it breaks against his arm in SR1.
Oh yea now I remember-in the final cut sequence 'with all other foes destroyed the twin blades now turned themselves on me'. That was the third time he picked it up because after this he is handed the Reaver by Kain when he meets him in Williams chapel(and it vanishes after he sticks it into William's crypt).Thanks for that
Well. I did say it was a theory. Raziel's soul wasnt always part of the Reaver, and it just led me to believe that the point at which he did become its soul was when he took the wraith blade as his own. From that point on he was doomed to enter ther Soul Reaver. The Reaver itself was a vampiric blade, remember, Raziel (reborn)was the one who ate souls. Like Mobius said in Defiance:'In time, it may be safe to realease him...He "will" enter the sword'. This did indeed happen at the end of Defiance
Raziel was also supposed to get the Shift at Will ability in SR1, kill Kain at the end of SR1, and find the Spirit Forge in the lake outside the Sarafan Stronghold in SR2. Ideas come up and get scrapped all the time. Besides, even if they HAD shown Kain putting the Reaver in Avernus it would have been 500 years before Defiance that it happened, and that still would have allowed Moebius to give it to William.
This series is worth keeping and replaying every few years. Even blood omen 2. I rather enjoyed the sword dueling in bo2. That and playing a kain that was still young, brash and arrogant as hell.
I agree, history compelled Raziel to take the blade(and with no Kain to tell him so, he couldnt fight the urge). My theory is that when Kain shattered the blade, the (vampiric)spirit inside was released and Raziel chose to take the spirit as his weapon. However, by the time Raziel found the Reaver again, the spirit wanted to reunite but discovered that it had been part of Raziel for too long, and Raziel would die before it could detatch from him and join its physical form.
"Why, you're trembling, Moebius, has your confidence abandoned you?" 😏 This was one of the few lines that 11 year old me could quote from the entire game! That and "You knew I would lead the Sarafan to Janos, you vile bastard..."
I wondered why Raziel was in a constant state of paradox once he bonded with the wraith blade. The best i can guess is that after so long being trapped as the entity in the blade it somehow changed him enough so that the paradox did not happen when they came together.
I think I get what happened here. The temporal anomaly caused by the two time displaced blades, in this bubble Mobius knew he could die and all his predictions and foresight could be meaningless. But he also knew it was the only way to manipulate the path of events by pushing Raziel into the path he intended for him. Raziel found the anomaly, Mobius just wanted to ensure the outcome he most desired in line with his predictions. This is why he left his staff, so he wouldn't appear a threat to Raziel.
pretty much, at this very point in history the fact moebius is omniscient means nothing as Raziel, while not knowing it, is at an advantage by being able ot change history. Moebius is in a VERY precarious position and he is trying for dear life to get Raziel to not do anythnig too impactfull like killing him . This is because while moebius knows exactly when he is supposed to die(atthe hands of kain in about 30 years for the events of Bo1), history and the EG will ensure this. but if he were ot fall ot the reaver here, history would have to change, thowing his whole plan into dissaray.
Even if Kain kills moebius in Bo1 he is atemporal i think.Or he is in touch with all his versions from different timelines.The Reaver belonging to William was shattered in the fight with young Kain because he was armed with the Reaver infused with Raziel's soul. Great videos Joudas.
By being Raziel's symbiote for so long, it also become ravenous for souls(because at the time, Raziel was the Eldar God's Soul Reaper). It also may have fused itself,perhaps unknowingly, with Raziel's soul(thus found itself unable to sucessfully detatch without killing Raziel). The Reaver's spirit, may have lost hope of seeing its physical twin again so, perhaps, remained dormant as a weapon. When Raziel brought the 2 together though, the Spirit took control, hopeful of a rejoining its twin
It would have been interesting to see what happened with Moe dying 30 years early. Kain's adventure in BO would have been vastly different, that's for sure. Though without Moe around it's likely Kain would have been killed by The Nemesis (no time streaming device to go back and kill William).
I dunno i mean if Kain couldnt kill William then William isnt made a matyr so Vorador wouldnt have been killed either its possible they would have been able to defeat the Nemesis.
I think that reason he wasn't fully drained this time was because of the reaver only draining him (and possibly Dumah's soul" to repair the blade. At the end of the game there was nothing left for it to feed on when it regained its from being far enough away from moebius's staff as well as it being fully sentient then.
still 2. when raziel unwillingly repaired the broken reaver, what took place there was that the spirit of the reaver collided with Raziel and the Wraith blade, and the resulting collision caused a forced resolution. in this case, the "Raziel"(the wraith) and the Wraithblade collapsed together and merged into a singular being. when raziel mentions he feels the blade fully awakened and felt its will, he unknowingly was describing himself as now the wraith blade is a part of his being instead of just a entitiy attached ot him.
@@Teixas666 Yeah that's not what happened. It just jumped into the blade with its other self for a bit and then came back. What aroused it to its fully awakened state was experiencing its former home again. This is all made very clear in the dialogue. Even if that weren't the case, there were still 3 Raziels before the blades "merged" so either way you're wrong.
I think the reason is "embracing it's twin ,it's mirror self the reaver's long dormant spirit was now fully aroused and for the first time I fully felt it's presence willful ravenous and deranged from thousands of years of captivity" and "the reaver was no longer my symbiotic weapon but a sentient parasite competing for control and if I allowed it to become over aroused it would turn on me."
So long as his soul is still floating free, sure. But if Raz were to have devoured his soul after killing him that would be that, as we also so in Defiance.
