Carnage is a very easy character to adapt (just not in children’s cartoons). His character and personality is simple and easy to understand. All you need is a PG-13 rating or higher and half a brain. SONY had one but not the other.
"just not in children's cartoons" That's the issue. As long as Marvel and Sony will keep making movies and animated series "for the kids" we will never be able to get a proper adaptation of Carnage outside of the comics. I'm excited to see what Insomniac wants to do with Carnage since it seems they have some leeway to go to places darker than regular Spider-Man media is allowed to, so we might get some good stuff. But aside from that, the only way we could get a proper adaptation of Carnage in an animated series or something is if by some miracle Sony decides to make an R-Rated Venom animated series tackling his Lethal Protector days after leaving New York. Unfortunately I don't see that happening. Hollywood in and of itself sees no profit in making animated series for older demographics (which is so odd cause I mean look at how much bank series like Attack on Titan makes, and that one's definitely NOT for kids, then again that's a Japanese Anime, and Anime series can sometimes get really fucked up and grotesque)
@@comicbookking3446 from my perspective the answer is because it was a cartoon meant to advertise and sell toys to children on public TV. Meanwhile a movie you need to pay to get behind the screen. Due to this the movie's rating could have easily been changed without a loss of advertisment and profits, at least in comparison to the 90s Spider-Man cartoon which relied on its Younger demographic to be profitable. Basically while the 90s Spider-Man cartoon version of Carnage is a watered down version of the character, I do understand that because of the media the character appears in the character has to be watered down to even appear at all. That's at least my take away.
Another reason I think he's tough to adapt is that he needs a lot of set up. He needs to be post venom, and venom is a two parter villain due to the symbiote suit and the Eddy Brock rivalry. So Carnage needs to appear after a lot of set up.
I think Woody Harrelson was PERFECT as Kasady. He’s funny, he’s creepy, he LOVES hurting people. It’s the Carnsge side of things that are different. I respect the writers working around the PG-13 rating by leaning into the gothic horror of recent Carnage comics since they couldn't go full slasher
Honestly the only problems I had with Carnage's depiction in Venom 2 is how they depicted Cleatus and Carnage's relationship like I've always pictured them being bonded to the point that they share both the same mind and almost body they are one also the movie should have been fucking R-rated for more on screen gore and violence... Honestly Sony is retarded for making the Venom movies PG-13 and making the Kraven movie R-rated (speaking of the Kraven movie but am I the only one that gets the vibes of a bad comic book movie from the late 90s/early 2000 when watching the trailer)
Woody Harrelson is irl a little crazy, I think he was perfect. It was the lame script that screwed him. The moment he started bickering with the symbiote the movie went down the drain.
@@The_Blue_Otaku I take it you never read a Venom comic. Venom comics aren't like the Punisher or Deadpool comics and aren't R rated material to begin with. Sony actually did the right call staying true to the source material. It wouldn't improve the movie, a R rating does not mean a movie is automatically 100x better.
I’m actually really excited to see how Insomniac handles Carnage. It’s harder to get a faithful adaptation of him in children’s media because they can’t explicitly depict him as a serial killer without heavily sanding it down or using some kind of allegory. With some of the stuff we saw Kraven and Venom do in Spider-Man 2 I think we can get a lot more leeway with having Carnage go all out. Maybe we could get an M rated Venom game to really go all out with him.
I honestly think that the 90's show did a good job despite having to be limited for a cartoon. Just because he's not a serial killer, he still tried to blow people up, had a creepy voice, and the design was pretty much untouched. It did also imply that he has killed people.
@@Optimegatrongodzilla Robbie said "He's done things the press won't print." That's good writing. I don't need to or want to see a villain viciously kill people; I want to see the hero stop him before it happens. And if he kills people, it shouldn't be too violent or it could be off-screen.
spiderman having to punch through a wall to escape is SO raw. A lot of iterations show how smart he is, I almost forgot he's that incredibly strong. IMO they need to show that rawness in a live action spiderman, that raw energy has been absent in live action versions!
It’s weird people don’t like carnage for the reasons of him being one note and a murderer when they enjoy Sukuna from Jujutsu Kaisen for that said reason 💀
I think the reason many people see Carnage as "one-note" is because they see him as Marvel's answer to The Joker, but without the class, the style, and the theatrics. Carnage won't stage a massive show to kill some cops unless Spider-Man can stop him, like what Joker would do to get Batman's attention, Carnage just likes to maim and slaughter for the sake of it. Except when he doesn't. One thing the comics have shown us is that deep down Carnage, or at least Cletus Kassidy, wants a family. He wants more people like him. He wants to show the world that madness is the only path worth taking, and that comes from a place where he doesn't want to be alone, despite literally killing his entire family just because he wanted to. He has an occultist mentality. In fact there's been multiple instances where he ran his own occult, most recently in Marvel's Spider-Man 2 where he runs the Cult of The Flame. And then there's the time he took over an entire small town and made a make-shift family for himself by infecting everyone with the Carnage Symbiote. And during Maximum Carnage he didn't want to just kill Spider-Man and Venom, he wanted to bring them down to his level and prove to them that when the chips are down, they're not different from him at all. And THEN he'd kill them. One thing people don't know about the character due to lack of exposure is also that Cletus feared death. He fears dying, he fears whisking away and being forgotten, and every time he felt genuinely threatened with death, he started shivering, crying and begging for mercy. At one point in the comics it was suggested that one of the reasons why Cletus is a mass murderer is because he's trying to understand death so that he can conquer his fear of it. That threshold was eventually crossed when Cletus would get to a point where he'd keep getting killed only to be resurrected later through whatever means, and since then he hasn't really shown much of that fear of dying. But when the character was introduced, that fear was there. He was afraid of Venom actually killing him, he was afraid when Joker threatened to kill him with a virus (Batman and Spider-Man crossover, the first of two, it's actually pretty cool, I highly recommend it), he feared death, and killing and maiming others is his answer to that fear. There are certain layers to this character, it's just that those layers don't get exposed enough. That is one thing that Venom : Let There Be Carnage handled quite well I believe. For all his sadistic ruthless antics, deep down Cletus just wants someone like him, so he knows he's not alone. In the movie he saw a kindred spirit in Eddie Brock and became obsessed with him, trying to get his attention, his friendship, trying to prove to him that they're the same, it really was trying to go for a Joker and Batman dynamic between Cletus and Eddie (key words being "trying to") and I think that's an aspect of the character that should be exposed more. The contradiction within his soul. He'll kill and claim that life is meaningless and death is the only answer, but he also wants a "family" for himself. There is a layer of depth there, but since the vast majority of comic book audiences don't actually read comics and just watch the movies and cartoons, they don't know that.
It’s so frustrating that unless they’re doctor octopus or mostly green goblin the general public just brushed spideys rogues gallery off as being one note losers in tights or the most surface level charicature imaginable, which leads to them being written as so. It’s telling that this is such a huge problem to the point the reason the spot becomes the main villain in atsv’s narrative is because this exact thing happened to him by the in-universe characters which rightfully pissed him off.
@@PinBBro Vulture and Mysterio weren't one note, also Spot the main villain in ATSV? he was present for like 10 minutes then got sidelined for the entire movie lol
@@theamazingspooderman2697 Yeah Spot is the main villain of ATSV and BTSV, the creators have said as much. He's the end goal now, like what Kingpin was in ITSV. Miguel and the Spider-Society, despite what many fans seem to think, are still only the secondary antagonists.
I think Carnage has a lot more depth than you give him credit for. He's still not the deepest villain ever but I think he's pretty interesting. Carnage isn't just chaos incarnate, no matter how much he wants you to believe he is. In reality he's kinda pathetic despite his insane power. I like that side of his character
I think the problem begins with Carnage's origin. Carnage (the symbiote) is the offspring of Venom. You HAVE to get Venom right before you get Carnage. We have yet to see a movie series that even lasted long enough to give Carnage a chance... except for the Venom movies. Though, I wouldn't necessarily count those for the sake of this argument. Venom is not a spiderman movie. It's a Spider-Man villain movie
Alternatively, they take a massive gamble by making either Venom or Carnage not exist. By this, I mean the symbiote could evolve more powers over time, namely the weapons shapeshifting, and perhaps drive the host more and more insane (or just becomes so if it bonds to Cletus first instead of Eddie, just to jumpstart being Carnage. Simply put, give Venom Carnage's powers, or skip Venom entirely if you want the big red monster.
I love Carnage so much, hes the ultimate test for Spidey in both physicality and morality; what do you do with a serial killer who will consciously choose not to change that is ALSO bonded to an alien that can create quite literally any melee weapon and makes him nigh immortal and immune to most forms of damage besides like two things? Do you not follow your principles and make an exception (which most people would at the very least completely understand), or do you stay true to who you are at the cost of knowing there will ALWAYS be a chance that he’s gonna come back and do it all again with glee? also he looks cool lmao
Carnage is arguably the exact true opposite of Spider-Man. Not only does he not have responsibility for his great power, he revels in his power to cause as much destruction as possible. Pretty much every villain can have something to sympathise for, a circumstance, a hang-up, or something that could be reasoned with. Carnage has none of that, with no hope for redemption or empathy. Carnage is possibly the worst thing Spiderman could be, if he turned his back on a code.
i really want to see how insomniac is going to adapt their version of carnage just cassidy himself was already a great and meancing chracter in spider-man 2 so i really want to see how their carnage will work
I think its cause studios and censors are too afraid to show pure evil atrocities. With cases like Joker, hes easier to adapt causs hes had toned down and silly versions since his debut and you can work off those, or make him a maniac while still being entertaining and funny. But carnage doesnt have that. Hes genuinely pure evil with no spectacle or cause. He just commits horrific crimes cause he simply can. His victims arent offed creatively or inspired like Joker does it. Carnage does it brutally, slowly, and with maxiumum gore. And censors and editorials dont want to show that. And its not even the symbiote powers or anything thats hard to adapt either. Its Kassady himself. He was a vile disgusting depraved man before he even became Carnage. When you look at Carnage you see a super villain. But when you look at Kassady, you see a monster. The symbiote isnt what makes him scary, but what Cletus will do to you with it. And you need to show what this lunatic is capable of both as a monster and a villain. And you cant do that without it making the movie or show R or MA rated. And execs and censors dont want to have that. Carnage is a villain so evil and monstrous, that he HAS to be obscenely graphic to get right
God bless you brother, finally someone who actually make sense and don't use the whole "it not need to be R rated" or the whole"get away with PG 13 " people often time don't realize that something that is r rating don't mean just Gore blood or sexual contact,it about take theme or consept that is qute R rated consept (something that either heavy or controversial stuff or anything that can make the audience feel any short a anxiety or anything that made them fell unsafe)
The carnage in the dinner recently and death of Venomverse isn’t even the real Cletus Kasady, long story short, Og CK is dead officially, but a cult used his corpse and a piece of Grendel symbiote that bring Kasady back sorta, it’s more less a memory fragment of Cletus Kasady form within the symbiote that’s basically left off where the Og ended, but then later defeated. Then the symbiote had a mental argument with the Carnage symbiote half and the Kasady half before splitting up, and finally the carnage symbiote make a new Kasady from a criminal in the jail cell where the original carnage symbiote (the one that was eaten by Venom) was born.
Carnage once Bonded to Green Goblin to create The Red Goblin and became almost unstoppable. Spider-Man had to bond with Venom to stand toe to toe with the red goblin even then Pete had to trick Norman to get rid of the Carnage Symbiote to defeat both Green Goblin and Carnage.
The fact that he's so great as a one-dimensional villain is why I don't like him in let there be carnage. They try to make him more than that. Give him a sad backstory, a girlfriend he genuinely loves and wants to protect from the symbiote, who becomes a separate character rather than an extension of his madness.
No joke I was in the shower the other day thinking about how you'd make a video on Carnage. Needless to say, I was excited when I saw the notification.
@@azaanimations319 Hey! I don't usually get recognized on comments here. I subbed to you, your animations are miles better than mine will ever be. Keep it up!
Carnage was my favorite villain before I even knew his name. I remember seeing a red venom in the 90s theme song and right off the heels of the venom saga and was like “whoa! There’s a bigger and badder version of venom?!” When I got to know him, I liked him even more as marvel’s version of Joker, but his powers supplemented his murderous nature.
To be fair there's also Massacre, who IMO does a better job at the 1 dimensional spider-man villain because he isn't a gimmick villain who is also a psychopath who just wants to kill. His gimmick IS that he's 1 dimensional, he literally cannot feel anything, no pain, no remorse, no guilt. It's led to moments like his death in Superior Spider-Man that are really powerful, and the only carnage moment that even comes close is when he forces Eddie to decide whether to unleash knull or lose dylan
the idea that carnage daily activities till spider man and venom stopped him was literally going out looking through a phone book and chose ppl based on what he was feeling that day
Its good to have a villain that's just pure evil in a series instead of some broken wreck crying to their mother being such a wannabe stealing candy from babies, carnage just shreds through people. Carnage is my 2nd favourite spiderman villain, 1st is Green Goblin, can't wait for carnage in the next game
In The Carnage - It's a wonderful life comic A Doctor & Psychiatrist (Can't quite remember) are in Carnages head searching his memory I think - One of his earliest memories is watching his Father bash his mother with a hammer and half her face his smashed off - his father is electrocuted by chair - Point being is - He's actually quite traumatized & suppresses quite alot, For some reason he's also suppressing a child hood friend, Hes also ver knowledgable of history -He's not a 1 Dimensional character, Even Silver Surfer felt somewhat sympathy for him after the Symbiote tried bonding with Surfer and he saw his memory & soul pretty much, He's just that unhinged already then he's given a Symbiote - There was always going to be Maximum Carnage ..
Carnage is my second favorite spider man villain. First one is venom.and I agree with most of your comments specially when you said when he is written well he is a good character.90s spiderman cartoon had the best voice actor of carnage for sure but ultimate spider man had a good voice actor for carnage two.and is finally great to see someone talk about this character.good video🤘👍🏻👍🏻
@@spidermania dunk I hope you know who wesker is if not look him up he is a god tier villain up there with ultron and carnage his theme works so well with carnage especially his final boss theme in 5
I think putting carnage in a kids show should be an oppurtunity to let the viewers imagnation do some of the work imagine, the heroes looking for carnage, openng a door, and being visably horrified and/or disguted by what they see. Revealing through dialogue that there are people in there and making it clear that whtever happened to those people, it was fucking horrific
4:50 that part of the game is actually why I like Carnage can you use to terrify me when I was younger but now I love him and not scared of them anymore for the most part
4:45 I just recently finished a whole playthrough of shattered dimensions on my channel! This game is incredibly fun and I definitely think it's up there with peak Carnage representation. (Even though it wasn't Cletus cuz it was Ultimate Carnage).
Being one dimensional is not a bad thing, in fact with all these villains being so deep now, going back to being one dimensional is a breath of fresh air sometimes, just give me a regular babyface vs heel dynamic, so i don’t have to feel any sympathy or resemblance towards the villain, and I can just cheer for the hero
I’m sorry to be a nuisance but in the venom ranking you forgot venom from the Disney infinity 2.0 game, granted when in the story he has a extremely minute roll but at least at the start the symbiote gets cloned from him without him wanting it to be then he breaks out and is fully on team spider man to stop it
On the subject of hating death of the venomverse... its worse because a few of the venom varients introduced in extreme venomverse where *really cool* actually. I adore necroko, I want more of her, I am glad that the writter has confirmed she was the one venom not to get axed, but it just speaks to marvels hubris of "lets introduce all these characters who people might really like, then axe them all instantly"
You should watch Ultimate Spiderman by Disney. People hate that show but I personally love it, and imo it has the best adaptation of Carnage and Antivenom so far.
Carnage is one of the easiest Spiderman villains to adapt. He literally is a nihilistic psychotic murderer who cares about two things: murdering people as brutally as possible and utter anarchy. And Sony had managed to fuck THIS up. This is literally a "You had one job. ONE. JOB." meme
I actually like that take. Carnage is such a threat that cannot be taken lightly that spiderman can’t quip or joke when he fights him. Instead carnage is the one quipping and making jokes, because Carnage is the one with the advantage, the one in control.
i own the whole of the venom comic with absolute carnage and its honestly my favourite carnage (and fictional character) ive ever seen, also the one thing that disappointed me the most in the movie is that carnage often refers to venom as "daddy" in most media, it wouldnt have worked with the low pitched voice they gave him which was definitely not a good choice to do, but i think it would've been hilarious and it's honestly one of my favourite things about carnage because every time i hear him say it i get literally chills
Carnage would be a real good villain if he had class, most villains these days have some complex or deep reason why they are evil Shigarki from mha Yhwach from bleach Thanos from mcu Makima from chainsaw man Odin from god of war Kylo ren from Star Wars These villains have a reason and motive why they are evil, to change society, the laws of the universe or simply help others by bad means But a real simple way of fixing carnage is to give him class, like yes. He is the psychopath serial killer who just wants to kill people But you should give him a quirk or give him a style, villains like the joker from dc, big Jack Horgan from puss in boots and mahito from jujutsu kaisen are liked and loved Because they have a style and quirk that make the audience can’t help but like their charm and personality, the joker when he makes a dramatic scene to get Batman’s attention Jack Horgan is charming and funny that you can’t help but laugh when he does something bad and shrugs it off like as if it was a minor mistake Mahito who says he has a deep reason why he kills but in reality just lied and only wishes to break and kill people Carnage needs to be like them, they don’t have a real reason nor motivation but have charm, quirks and personality to make them beloved and hated I think what marvel has to do is just give carnage a quirk or a air of charm to him, he clearly can persuade people into joining his cults and is smart to run a organization so why not give him a bit of a calculating and charismatic attitude It can be like this “Oh, you wish to kill me?” “Yeah, you just $hit talked by boy and bit me you €ucking psycho!” “Psycho? Psycho?! Me?! No no no NO! A psycho would do something like Cletus kasady would do! And that would be punching you through the ceiling, slitting your throat, grabbing that chair and beating your friends head over with it like this!” Then Cletus’s does what he says, word for word with a happy smile and his arms covered in his symbayote and killing the guy cartoonishly but gruesomely to add humor but a psychotic keeping in character to carnage
I think what makes Carnage one of the best villains, and why his "Evil For Evil's Sake" personality works is who's his main hero is. Spider-Man. Carnage is the opposite of "With Great Power, comes Great Responsibility," man will just use his powers for whatever he wants whenever he wants. With no moral code or greater cause stopping him to reconsider.
Since, that last hint of venom in another universe they should DEFINITELY stick to R rated movies and take advantage of that opportunity for Maximum Carnage. Id love to see it. Maybe even hint one of the older spiderman characters near the end of that and so it wont be too long make it a two parter. Ik in the right hands I’d pay to go see them both.
If they don't make the carnage symbiote playable in some form in the Spider Man 2 flame DLC I'm gonna be so disappointed. I've been WAITING for a game where you can turn a battlefield upside down with carnage's powers Prototype style, his use of his tendrils while fighting is always the coolest thing on screen.
This is why carnage is my favorite super villain of all time, he is just evil to the core, and being similar to venom power wise except stronger is so cool
Carnage needs his own R-rated spinoff with Shriek, change my mind. Like the final battle from Venom: Let There Carnage, but what if Carnage won that battle? What if Carnage killed Venom, Eddie, Anne, Dan & Officer Mulligan? 2:40 IT'S NOT PRONOUNCES SYMBI-OTT OR SYMB-EYE-OTE. IT'S PRONOUNCED SIM-BEE-OTE, DAMMIT. WHEN WILL PEOPLE GET IT RIGHT. 3:42 TAKE THAT BACK, IT SOUNDS COOL.
I find it funny when people say that Spidey villains are "too dumb" to be adapted, because I guarantee you, if these characters existed in real life, there would be a reason for superheroes to exist. Just the fact that New York is a nightmare land in the Marvel universe, always under attack by mutants, robots, aliens, wizards, you name it, it's the worst place to live at, unless you're rich enough to leave whenever you want, because there's no reason to live there when anything can kill you. Now imagine this, there's one supervillain in town that is so dangerous that his mere and sole existence leads to pure brutality to ALL people everywhere and NOTHING can stop him, so you know that just by thinking about it, it should drive anyone crazy knowing that they'll never be safe while he's around. Yeah, that's Carnage. Carnage doesn't negotiate, he doesn't pity, he doesn't hesitate and he doesn't care. He just does it because he enjoys it. That's who Cletus Kasady is. He's pure evil incarnated into a human being since his birth. Not even as a child they could stop him, imagine him as an adult. You shouldn't be afraid just because of what he can do, but also because you have no idea what he can do. You just know he'll do it and it ain't gonna be nice.
