This is a copy of the atmospherics game that ditches a huge amount of the mechanics for what their nonce coders want. I don't mean that just pulling it out of my ass, the people making this game are not good people, lul.
my main issue with this change was that its being made under the premise of "atmos issues", which are pretty much entirely because of the new meteors change, quartering the damage shows how unaware whoever made the change is to how combat is handled, it feels like a mald git-push. i dont have as much an issue with this affecting nukies though since they're kinda in a really good position right now with their winrate being like 40-60ish% now, back when we had space-pens their winrate was abysmally low like 8% or something ludicrous i think it was so this is likely gonna swing us back towards that winrate era.
Also evac shuttles had their airlocks removed for some reason. Which seems to have sparked part of this prs reason due to evac shuttles spacing too easily.
@@Liltenhead genuine question. who hurt the SS14 github coders? honestly. I can't fathom removing complicated doors from a mode of transportation through a SHEER VACUUM. is the expectation that only those who steal eva gear early enough worthy of surviving round end? and what about escape pod airlocks??
Honestly, in a game about you being on a SPACE station, space should be this threat that could be lurking around any corner. Think of it like the game Barotrauma, you try and avoid breaches as much as possible because water will flood in and ruin your day. If an area has been sealed off by firelocks that people know activate when something is up with the air, and then they pry them open with wearing normal clothes, what do you expect would happen? A better fix would have just been to give evac firelocks and a ton more eva suits.
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
so let me get this straight, they remove atmos tools (the fire remote) and now are complaining that "i open firedoor that closed and now im dying cus space" how fuckin sad
Wizden balancing in a nutshell: > makes a gamebreaking change (for this instance it was the meteor showers rework) > uh oh! that gamebreaking change broke the game! who wouldve guessed? and what do we do now to fix it? > instead of reverting said change like a normal person would, adds a band-aid fix which breaks the game in a different way :D
The justification on the PR is shuttle spacing killing everyone, and they decided ruining combat would be a better band-aid fix than just tripling the number of EVA suits in the shuttle.
If the station is unable to regain a livable atmosphere after meteors strike, there is an issue with the way it fills the station with air, not that meteors is the issue. Meteors just brought this to light. I don't like meteors that much myself due to them being much better at stopping rounds that I feel the rod ever was.
@@SES37as atmos I can setup the station to be able to refill air rather quickly as long as the district pipe survive or are replaced, pressurized distro pipes means that refilling spaced rooms after repairs takes astronomically less time and people opening firelocks to flee spaced rooms will not compromise atmos in the rooms they flee too. The only issue is that the gas miner can only mine so much gas, and the new meteors do way too much damage, like what the actual hell, who thought this was okay. Like to combat this you'll likely have to run 40% oxygen so your n2 miner doesn't fall too far behind just so you can keep pumping breathable gasses into the station at acceptable levels.
My favourite is cryox actualy you can make it so easily and its strong enough that you could old pressure damage almost outheal it(i almost did whole round around atlas naked
Again, this video is mostly my opinions. I personally think the game just feels off when people are running through space with no protection. It's honestly more of an RP thing for me. The gameplay mechanics are also something I don't like, but I just think it looks silly to see a guy in a winter coat fixing broken windows to space and being completely okay. Related PR: github.com/space-wizards/space-station-14/pull/29478#issue-2373906703
I see the point why the PR was approved. But i see so much other options for that... If arrivals and arrival-shuttle got preached by whatever i really cant understand that the solution is to just remove spacing damage. Just map some aircanister on the shuttle, remove some chairs and put emergency lockers with suits on them, make the shuttle walls almost immune to meteors, put air alarms on the shuttle and map some more emergency suits on the starting area so everyone knows that its spaced, OR EVEN just detect if shuttle has no atmos and force people who join to arrive iat cryo?! Sorry put this PR and the people who approved was short minded here. Still thankful for all the maintainers.
@@Pascij Mapping is kind of painful right now. We have really poor mapping tools. Unironically the issues outlined in the PR would be heavily salved by space pens. Were space pens right to be removed at that time? Maybe. Would they fix this problem pretty well? Uh, yeah.
The recent change to be unable to pry powered airlocks is extremely annoying against nukies, this helps against it but both feel like changes for the worst
The glitch with people visually flipping in and out of bed has been infuriating for me as a CMO main, I can't tell what the fuck my patients need nowadays
My first thought was that you can now be almost immune to space by just injecting yourself with cryoxadone and the space damage nerf wouldn't be very noticeable. But this is damage is even weaker than if someone spills a bit of welding fuel on you and lits you on fire. I don't get why evac spacing made the PR author want space damage to be nerfed so significantly.
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
honestly, i personally would love space damage to be one of the most dangerous hazards. like you die in seconds. Space is no joke. But maybe the alerts for spaced rooms should be buffed and more noticeable. At least the PR says "This is a band-aid until better mechanics exists for the crew to deal with breaches of various kinds."
I dislike the change. Puts a lot of overhead on sabotage antagonists and needlessly buffs unrealistic builds. Hoping for a revert, or a nerf like you do not heal while spaced/you take more damage the faster you are
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
@@FrioTheDerg As a DBD fan, allow me to inform you that "bandaid" and temporary mean 3 things: "This is replaced by a better change next month", "this will be changed in 3 years", and "this will have more bandaids laid on top during the next half a year". It is not justified, it is misguided. It's a bandaid to fix the shuttle door removal. Another shall follow it. Refactoring will not happen soon. Inb4 newmed happens first.
Before even watching the video i did that exact medical bed-medibot setup on my last round to test space damage nerf, was planning on fliying around the station and stop at peoples windows to brag about tiders being space resistant now but rouny chew on my power cables again and internet speed plummeted, i managed to connect for 2 seconds after several minutes and i was still alive before disconnecting again and for the next reconnect i was crit and died (medibot ran to space and paramed was syndie)
I think that spacing damage should be back to normal and prying open airlocks without crobars should also work again maybe make it take a little longer but if get into a room totally alone and dont have a crowbar you can do nothing but wait for your death making rushing for eng and getting a crowbar on round start mote popular... I think the shield buff is fine since most guns now need you to wield.
Emergency crowbars are scattered throughout the station for a reason. It's a shame no one respects the "emergency" label, and they feel free to take them from the emergency closets like it's no one's business during code green.
@@fernando47180 that's why I think the forelocks should be opened by hand, cuz when not everyone will just take a crowbar on round start witch pretty much debuff s the players that respect the emergency label
Players are abandoning the game at a "supposed" period when new players should be coming to it. These kind of changes made for absolutely zero reason. I feel like at this point, I want someone on the "in" to start getting angry about this bs. Or more are just going to keep leaving, everyone who's been here already sees it happening.
Welcome to public github repo where anyone with half a brain and determination can make changes and they can be pushed if they are persuasive enough (think of the singularity "nerf")
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
This sucks. I hope the devs realize we dont like this at all. The nerf to literal SPACING is laughable, it should be something scary and life threatening.
Hopefully only a matter of time until its reverted. The "just try anything" mentality sure seems rediculous sometimes. Fuck it though. One thing we can embrace is enjoying how different things change, and like it or not it keeps things fresh!!!
Honestly this change was such a disappoitment just seemed like a shitty band-aid fix to the metor spam and the lack of firelocks in evac shuttles. Rather than just revert the metor change or atleast decrease the metor chance (I see atleast 3-4 metor events in a 1 hour shift) and map firelocks onto evac shuttles someone github malded space damage nerf and the contributors went along with it.
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
Ah, yet another brilliant wizden change! A shame they didn't remove barotrauma damage and suffocation entirely, but this a step in the right direction! I mean really, those suits and oxygen tanks are so damn cumbersome!
this may just be the WORST band-aid fix ive seen for a game. why they didnt revert the changes that CAUSED the original "problem" is unknown to everyone.
The devs are just making "bandaids" for the bad features that they pushed and are too embarrassed to revert, meanwhile they nerf everything the exact second it does damage to them whilst buffing everything that they use to powergame.
Just a heads up. This a baindaid patch until they can fix atmos. Some rounds get immediately ruined because of meteors hitting the air supply causeing spacing in the hole station. This isnt gonna stay.
Finally, a true, TRUE example that shows that the maintainers don't actually play the game they work on. This game is in a very bad place right now, imo
How spacing works has been on my bucket list for ages. It's yet another thing blocked by newmed being the Duke Nukem Forever of PRs. I've been wanting to kill off audio in spaced rooms, for example, and add radiation and heat damage when in direct LOS to the local star rather than pressure damage (pressure doing lethal amounts of blunt damage before you die of suffocation is completely against how the universe works!). The latter change would mean that a spaced room needs its atmos fixed reasonably urgently, but actually being in open space unprotected is very, very lethal. We need a lot of refactors through before this stuff can be done, and Wizden allows itself to get buried under hundreds of random PRs with no development focus or team support. It's frustrating.
for some reason people seem to be missing that this isn't just some random contributor who made this as a permanent PR, it was PJB and they're only doing it as a bandaid. people are treating this like it's going to be a permanent change when that is explicitly not the point of the PR. you can still be mad about how out of touch the PR is, but at least understand that it's not completely fucking game ruining, forever. this happened before with the AME and engie changes, i don't see why people are treating this significantly differently.
I hope that this issue may, finally, convince the majority of the SS14 player base and coders to divorce themselves from Wizden. They are genuinely awful, as developers and as people. This kind of stupid doesn't come from anywhere else but serious personality issues.
I don't like this. Spacing is **supposed** to be a problem, imo. The crew and specifically engies have a way to deal with spacing rather than making it not a problem
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
@@FrioTheDerg Apparently the bandaid fix was for the meteor rework, the one that no one asked to begin with and was developed instead of any other actual decent feature. Edit: not meteor, but apparently to how easily shuttles get spaced.
i like how the entire point of nukies is to be 5 super soldiers vs the entire station but the purpose is kindof defeated when john greytide can be tankier than a nukie for free
At this point they should make atmos like SS13 and make it move super slow. It would've been a better nerf because space would still be lethal. Atmos being slow in 13 isn't an engine limitation (there are servers with "monstermos" which is basically SS14's atmos), it's a deliberate choice simply because that means if someone blows a bomb in the hallway people have reaction time to deal with it.
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
Having seen other games work on stuff like this, there's likely another factor they are working on in the background. We don't have pressure damage despite artifacts rolling node activation with high or low pressure situations. If theres another damage type, paramedics or normal medics may have a harder time saving a person if they survive the nukie blast, but are getting fucked up by the spaced room.
It’s nice they aren’t afraid to try extreme things but this makes me wonder, does space freeze you? I remember the issue in SS13 is that you had emergency oxygen and medipens to help with spacing but the pressure damage and cold temperature would slow you down and kill your combat potential as well as escape speed
sounds like the meds will be running out a bit quicker. people limping away from a fight they survived may still be in serious danger. space isnt even cold anymore, is it? so the temperature wont slow people down either?
This really wouldn't require an atmos rework, just needs someone to figure out how the hell to make body temperature affect speed properly like in ss13.
to be honest, this is a really simple fix in terms of balence if space is no longer threatening enough with meds or healing in play simply make it so while exposed to space, all healing is reduced in effectiveness due to exposure, that way while you CAN still heal in space, you really want to get that person or yourself into stable climent or a suit before attempting to do so as space exposer will drastically diminish its effectiveness, naturally this can be selective in effect, so that it only deals with brute or cold aspects, and not say oxygen deprivation damage, but it would be a interesting and valid method to make space combat risky, while letting it be less punishing for being exposed, unless you litterally just sit in it
Somewhat related, as someone new to SS14 who used to play SS13 a ton years ago can you still reduce the output of your internals to drastically increase the lifetime of them with no drawback? Or did they tighten up that slack in 14? I'd test it but I can't remember the value for the life of me lmao.
I always play with my oxygen tank to preserve life time. There was this one time I was stranded in space and I did exactly that. Didn't get to evac, but survived with some, let's say 3~ minutes remaining of oxygen?
Yes you can, a standard human can survive with oxygen set to 17 instead of 21.3, however this is the bare minimum and if you fail to breathe before turning on air like this you will continue to suffocate. Thus 17.5 is the recommended oxygen rate. Having reduced breathing rate increases survival time for slimes assuming you got n2. Having increased breathing rate like the delta v harpy halves the survival time.
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
DoKaK данное изменение настолько плохое, что Morbo(владелец основного ру билда игры, а также хост Корвакса) отменил данное нововведение, а это значит что на всех ру серверах не будет данного обновления
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
Its a bandaid fix, this is temporary. Hopefully they decide to revert this and additionally revert whatever the bandaid fix was supposed to "make up for."
Could see a side nerf where there are space jumpsuits that are "Space rated" where without a helmet you take 50% space, with space helmet 25%. + a sense of "Space damage escalates, where the more blunt damage you have the more blunt you take." Make Spacewind its own damage type that does blunt, cold, oxy damage
We need the opposite of this change! Bring back space winds and make them so when you open a spaced room you get catapulted into space like you're an amogus!!
As far a QoL changes goes for the average person? Seems fine. Gives sec time to respond. Engineering doesn't have to run for minor patch work. Gives people time to leave a room. Maybe lets a greytider respond before dying (3 min reaction time required). Actually is more realistic based on physics (Armstrong limits and what not; there's a suggestion to be made a skintight body suit that provides positive pressure could serve as an emergency option to resist spacing when temperature control isn't the primary concern, especially with 02 on hand; something something AF research and DARPA). SS13/14 has always had pretty awful combat; from my perspective that's just a fact of the game. Seems a bit much to roll this out atop the riot shield buff. Maybe it helps those weird russian servers where only sec fights nukies? Idk.
"Low pressure damage now does only 1/4th as much damage. This is a band-aid until better mechanics exists for the crew to deal with breaches of various kinds."
@@SES37 I'd be curious to know what the idea of a better mechanic for breaches is: Holobarriers, inflatable walls, more EVA suits, RCDs? Making Floor Tiles more resistant to spacing? I'm sad they're not interested in the real physics reason this change would make sense, but, hey, whatever. I could see this becoming a permanent band-aid really easily, as, the 2nd order effects of more accessible holos, walls, EVAs, RCDs, and so on are fairly huge buffs to syndi agents trying to escape, stay hidden, or maneuver. Making the station more explosion resistant would be neat, but, also a stealth nerf.
@@tawnykyle-cm5eq I am also interested in that. But the power changes took what? Half a year of overpowred AME? I do hope it's something interesting nad not just making engineering even more braindead when it comes to spacing. I want spacewind back :( Fuck the RCD, may it get thrown into a void and never be thought off again.
I'd wish you mention the part about this being labled "a band-aid until better mechanics exists for the crew to deal with breaches of various kinds." in the start of the video. Alot of comments act like this is how the devs have planned and intended for it to work. Meteors have shown that there is a weakness in alot of the stations where multiple areas are being spaced when it comes to refilling them(even when the engineers remembers to fix distro pipes). Evac shuttle have always been had issues with spacing even with firedoors, they always get pried open. You can still holofan and use the disposabal walls on the evac shuttles, but even if you fix the spacing, you still only have one spare cannister of air to connect to it. There is mutliple rounds that have ended due to the station not being able to regian atmosphere after major breaches.
Reading through the comments of the PR, if this was just in response to issues with the evac shuttle spacing, it's and conincdental godsend for spaced stations right now.
Its like puting a torniquet in your neck, you stoped bleeding from your neck but you cant fucking breathe. Evac shuttle isnt that bad when spaced but the rest of the game is getting magdumped
Their solution then is primarily a gameplay based one, where, it sounds like a better evac shuttle or an adjust to meteors would be a wiser decision. I was hoping we were getting an interesting physics based simulation change, and, all I get instead is people mad cause stuff changed.
Ive held the belief that there is zero checks held on how a pr will effect the game. Ivr had this belief since they changed the inventories. Someone makes a pr that changes the entire games flow, its riddled with bugs, and completely unbalanced decisions. Yet it somehow just flies into the game. The community looses their shit on how ass the change is, and in response something else gets changed. It was so frustrating i had to move to a different server.
Wait until you find out they denied a completely finished Supermatter shard (new power source, literally new content for the game) under the premise of "Too destructive" when the Singulo exists in the game and warrants a shuttle call every time it escapes.
@@romulo2714 I admin for goobstation, the supermatter got accepted there. Most of the absurd decisions were reverted on goob, as well as things that should be added in are added.
