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I think you explained it very well in that everyone doesn't know what the heck a series 70 pistol is, but would expect a modern pistol to be just as drop 'safe' as the 40 year old Glock design they're used to.
Some people wrap their entire identity up into the things they like/own/do, so it feels like a personal attack when someone says or does something that goes against those things. 🤷♀️
I personally LOVE how real you are in your videos. I don’t think you’re looking for attention or anything stupid like that. I think you’ve got more knowledge in your non dominant trigger finger, than most people do in their entire body. Keep doing what you do brother 🫡💯 you’re awesome!
Sig was hammered regarding the P320 as a result of its early problems with drop test. It’s a pistol that is used extensively throughout the LE community much like the staccato so the same standard should be used.
To be fair the drop issue on the sig was worse. It would go off when dropped on the back with the barrel pointing up, something a series 70 or CZ shadow would never do.
While on the one hand I agree with you, I would also point out that Sigs would fire when dropped on their back, sending a bullet upwards into the air, instead of down into the concrete like a 1911/2011.
@@mattwhite7421 I would say that a CZ Shadow (which doesn't have a firing pin block) very much can go off if it's dropped on its hammer, while it's resting against the firing pin with a round chambered (the ready condition in IPSC/USPSA production). More likely if it has an extended firing pin with a reduced firing pin spring.
@@Blackstone9x19 I've seen videos of people putting them in a vice and hitting the hammer with a mallet and it won't touch the primer with the stock firing pin but an aftermarket one would dent the primer. But that's not the fault of CZ, that's a modified gun.
Not going to lie, Ben literally described me. Got a Glock 19 at 21, got a staccato on my 26th bday cause it seemed like a better duty gun. Didn’t know there was a series 70 was a thing. This isn’t a deal breaker for me because I shoot my C2 better than I ever shot my Glock. Which is more important to me than it being drop safe.
@@atypical-bass1966I wouldn't say they're "horrendously bad", but they're definitely aren't as good as a series 70. Series 80s still have better triggers than the majority of handguns on the market, and can be tuned and polished to nearly as good of a trigger as a well tuned 70 series. A well tuned 80 series just takes more work to get there, and manufacturers like Stacatto aren't going to put all of that work in. Series 80s with incredible triggers are out there. You're going to pay out the ass for it, though.
I carry a Staccato C2. I wasn't aware that when dropped in a certain way series 70 actions aren't drop safe. I'm still gonna carry it, I think the likelihood of dropping it in the exact perfect way for it to go bang is low, and it is a risk I will accept. That said, I totally understand why this would change someone's choice in carrying or using a Staccato, and this is information every Staccato/Series 70 1911 user should know.
Simply get your new firing pin and spring and shoot your gun and carry it worry free. I understand this being a duty/law enforcement issue but if youre not then do whatever you want to make your gun safer or better. It will not make it impossible to fire if dropped but it will require such a high drop in order to go off that it can't really occur unless you drop it from 15 or 20 feet or so if not more maybe. Some companies such as springfield produce 1911s that come stock with a more drop safe firing pin and spring. This is what a lot of 1911 guys do and just something you should try to take into account if you love the platform and want to carry it. I wouldn't worry too much about it but it's a very easy inexpensive fix and probably worth doing.
Don’t listen to these fools. The series 70 has been used by cops and military personnel since its inception. We still use them. Cops constantly have negligent discharges with SA/DA and striker fired guns, that’s not because they dropped the gun.
I carried a series 70 Colt in LE knowing it was not drop test safe. The Agency knew too. It never became an issue. That Agency and the SO I also retired from didnt care either!
For the comment regarding LE carrying AR15s and shotguns and them not being drop safe. This is know and trained ARs and Shotguns that are carried in Police cars are carried in a "cruiser ready" configuration per policy which means for an AR a 30 round mag in the rifle bolt forward and no round in the chamber. Same for shotgun and this is specifically done because they are not drop safe. Just food for thought.
It also makes sense from an additional safety perspective. Not having a round in the chamber means that if you grab the long gun and the safety is off, hitting the trigger doesn’t cause an AD. I keep my home gear the same way.
I've been shooting since I was 25 ironically. I didn't know what a series 70 pistol was. If there was a pistol marketed for carry or "duty" I'd expect it to be drop safe. My G19 is drop safe ;) I found out, thankfully.
Oh wow, so you did the drop test that soon? Good on you Ben! Even with a newer gun, with presumably fresher springs, the gun still went off. I grew up on the 1911 so this does not come as a surprise. But good on ya for doing that drop test and getting the conversation going. If you are willing, can you do a drop test on one of your tanfoglios too? I know it has a drop/firing pin safety but due to the design, it may still conceivably discharge a round if dropped at a forward angle wherein the slide would be out of battery enough that the firing pin lifter arm on the receiver wont be holding up the firing pin block on the slide.
I replaced my stock P safeties with extended safeties (Double Tap). They made a very positive ergonomic difference for me, as well improving their function.
Great stuff Ben. I knew all about series 70 1911/2011 when I got my p. I put a +40% Wolff firing spring in it with no function issues. If I send you a spring, would you drop it on it's nose? Not sure I can stomach dropping my p from head height on the cement. Let me know.....
I love that you do this. Not gonna lie, if I had spent that much money on a pistol and thought it was drop safe only to later watch this video, I would be seething or coping or both.
On the note about AR-15s not being drop safe, one thing that always tripped me out was the free float pin. If you drop the bolt and chamber a round then check out the primer, youll see a tiny mark, just not enough to ignite it.
@@NDcompetitiveshooterI didn’t know it was possible until a swat guy told me it had happened to him. To be fair, the same guy took an AR in that he had never fired, didn’t “need” it, and only found out about an issue later at the range testing suppressors.
The cci400 small rifle primer cups are softer than most and are more suitable to slam fire. Use the 450 magnums if you are a reloaded. For any semi auto rifle
Drop a Stock 2 or any of your Tanfos next! I am curious how they will do...and am poor and don't want to drop my favorite comp gun. Do it. I know they have a firing pin block but it is a different type of block that most pistols.
I guess part of the reaction is that most people just don't know how their guns work. Sure, they can do most of the gun manipulations that they need at the range. Many people could also strip down their guns for cleaning or whatnot. But it usually requires a certain level of mechanical inclination/gun nerdery/autism before people care about the nitty-gritty details of how the things work. It's like with cars: not everyone knows how the hell a transmission works, and most people just have a vague sense that it's "gears and shit".
No. No. This goes beyond people not having basic mechanical knowledge. I knew what Series 70 is. I knew Staccato P does not have firing pin block. However, the promoters of the pistols said stuff like, "Passed many agencies' drop tests...blah blah." So, do not try to pin this one on "Ignorant Newbies not knowing their own gun, not knowing what Series 70 is...blah blah." It is the promoters who are responsible for insinuating that this pistol would be different.
Let's add fuel to the fire - Kimber and their take on the Swartz safety. What are your thoughts? I know the general complaint is that if the grip safety timing is off, it will fail to fire. However, that seems like the best way to have a firing pin block in a 1911 pattern without affecting the trigger pull and feel. I have a 2009 Kimber TLE/RL II which basically runs well. I qualify with it as an off duty weapon. I knew going in that 1911s were a lifestyle type gun and they need understanding and more TLC. I ended up pulling the FP safety out to run a Wilson HD extractor but added a titanium firing pin and Wolff XP FP spring.
There is no other manufacturer that use the Swartz system to my knowledge, and for a good reason. I have dealt with a Kimbet with one, and I have nothing good to say about Swartz. It makes that so called "grip safety" that I hate even more funkier. That moment when you feel as if your trigger barely scratching past the grip safety internal block when your grip is not perfect. Now it also does it with the firing pin block. Also, having a firing pin block disengaged the whole time you are gripping the pistol does not make sense to me. I would much rather choose Series 80 which never gave me any problem.
Hey Ben - how’d you get into shooting if your dad wasn’t into it growing up? My dad is similar. He hunted and was in the Marines but never did competition stuff. Always curious to hear other people’s stories.
Those boys in Vietnam were the last of a certain type of man. I knew a guy who flew Dust Off in Vietnam, and I’m surprised those boys could walk. JD would talk about getting flak like it was just Tuesday. Turns out, it was.
What’s your opinion on the issues with the p320 considering the issues CZ has had with the shadow 2? I’ve heard more stories about gun ADs with S2’s than the p320 in the practical shooting world. Admittedly, I shoot the x5 but I’m not brand loyal. What’s good is good and what’s bad is bad.
AFAIK every AD involving the Shadow 2 has happened with a gun that has been modified with an extended firing pin and lighter springs. The S2 in its stock configuration appears to be safer if dropped. Ben did a drop test with a Shadow not too long ago. Search his previous videos to see him discuss the results.
The auto adjusting holosun needs to be discontinued. If it can adjust instantly maybe... I've had issues with this in a local match. Turn that function off, don't need it.
I don’t know if I am the only one in the whole world, but blue lights look blurry to me so I’d rather go with a red dot than a green dot. Also, it’s a shame that there are no Schwartz safety 2011s. Seems like the perfect solution (dropsafe and Series 70 trigger) as long as QC is good.
Only as long as it isn't modified, not involving far weaker springs and extended firing pins. It could pass. The modified one already got an RO to the grave being dropped on the hammer.
Yes it’s a series 70 pistols. They aren’t 100% drop safe. But if they are gonna market it as a duty pistol it shouldn’t be this easy. It sound take some decent hight.
I wonder if Springfield 1911s/2011s do the same thing, they all have lighter titanium firing pins that are also smaller in diameter than those found on the Staccato P. The idea that these lighter firing pins would solve or mitigate the issue keeps coming up but I would love to see that theory tested.
Look mr science, it’s all series 70 1911s….all brands. Find me a story of a cop or mil guy that dropped their 70 series 1911 and it went off. Then search for NDs from cops with SA/DA and striker fired drop safe guns….they go off with not being dropped.
Correct. The only thing preventing the firing pin from hitting the primer is the firing pin return spring. If this thing falls muzzle down fast enough, the pistol stops and the firing pin keeps moving.
There's an inherent balance in trying to blend a racegun and a duty gun - speed and safety are almost opposites when it comes to handguns. It's also very common to instinctively disregard a perceived safety concern because safety is soft or bad or whatever. Bottom line: If they're gonna put the word "Duty" anywhere near it, it needs to be drop safe. Things get dropped, especially when you're carrying them all day, every day. It's not difficult to make a 1911/2011 platform drop-safe, and it's not impossible to get a good trigger afterward. Whether this specific platform needs to be drop safe is another question - is this truly a failure of safety or more of a failure of marketing? The real rub I'd like to know - Is the New CS/C platform different? Or will that one pop too?
I’m assuming you have your own FFL. Would you be interested in shooting and reviewing my edc? I’ll provide the ammo, just honestly interested in what you’d think and how you’d like it, or if you’d tear me a new one for my setup.
Damn dude, you that insecure? If it’s a modern gun it’s fine. You are the one that makes a difference. And there are better weapons than others. Post what you have on here, I’m sure it’s not some one off gun.
@@HWG-wm8ld not insecure about it all LOL I just know he’s a tough critic but that’s why I appreciate his opinion. And actually some of the parts are completely one off, because I had them designed and machined myself. (Trigger bar and fully adjustable trigger) it’s a custom P365 FCU with upgraded tigger and all springs replaced. Mischief Machine Macro+ commander grip module with G10 grips, custom machined 365XL slide with upgraded springs, Parker Mountain Machine barrel and comp that fits flush with the XXL frame, DPM recoil kit, Align Tactical mag release, Holosun 507k, TLR-7sub with Anitmatter Industries micro wing, and Tactical Development +2 basepads. The shorter trigger bar and fully adjustable trigger combined with all the spring work and the hours of polishing, it’s got a super clean 2.7lb break with zero take up and a short fast reset. Personally I think my build is what the 365 Legion wishes it could be. Like a mini striker fired Staccato XC lol but I’d love to know how he feels about it. I’ve got over 8,000 through it and it’s definitely reliable, safe, and accurate.
@@HWG-wm8ld lmao 🤣 I’ve been a gunsmith for 20 years and I can guarantee you that I shoot more than a handful of people you know combined. I’ve got both already, education and training 😅 and a degree in gunsmithing. How do you think I designed my own trigger setup 🤦🏻♂️ What do you have?
@@HWG-wm8ld too many words with more than 4 letters? I understand 🤣 don’t ask questions if you don’t want the answers. Besides, my comment was for Ben anyway 🤦🏻♂️ nobody asked you lol
It does become an issue when the promoters of this gun kept saying "This gun passed drop tests of major police departments..." pretending it would be different.
It would be interesting for someone to look at the “approved firearms list” of California and see how many approved series 70 guns there are on the list.
@@chrisharris6834 Control. To hassle gun owners. It even required technology that does not even exist in any feasible form to put new guns on the list.
So why is it marketed as a duty firearm ? But it can’t pass a drop test ? I mean what if a officer or somebody is chasing somebody and they drop their gun as a running or they get into a scuffle and the gun drops and then it could go off
I’ll repeat, do you have any clue how many cops and military personnel have used series 70 1911s since 1911? They have negligent discharges all the time with SA/DA and striker guns all the time.
Nah it’s not deal breaker but….. Am I the only one or do I feel like for $2000+ would be nice for them to be an series 80 . I mean my $600 guns come with firing pin blacks it’s not like it’s an unreasonable thing to ask for a gun in that price .
@@HWG-wm8ld well have you shot a series a good series 80 and 70 side by side ? Because I have. Its an excuse normally by companies is the tiger is way batter in the series 70. But I grew up shooting 1911 , my dad had both series 70 and series 80 from colt and there was not a very no much of difference since colt did their job right back then when they use to care ,the reality is just companies bs costumer and tell them all this stuff so they can get away with selling a gun with less manufacturing hrs cost and have a higher profit .
A lot of people in the comments upset are fighting their own cognitive dissonance about justifying their purchase. Being so committed to that brand they can't handle a little criticism. Those are also the same people so quick to call some pro shooters "shills." Gotta love the irony.
Is it a big deal if you drop it and it fires? I don't care. You shouldn't drop the gun. But then the same people that say this isn't a big deal made a massive issue with the sig p320. Something you had to drop at a very funny angle at the right time when the moon aligned. Because it did pass the standard drop tests.
The fact you ate discussing legitimate Issues for a duty blaster is baffling. Not sure how your qualifications seem to not matter. Keep doing what you do.
Honestly, saying the Stacc is an entry level 2011 is so out of touch. Tisas-Prodigy are entry level at this point. I really like the grip texture on the Prodigy, and the mags are relatively affordable, so that's the direction I went. All in, the gun is still a couple hundred cheaper than a BUL 2011. PS. I just find it funny. I feel like the more entry level guns have been out for a bit now. 2011's have become pretty accessible at this point.
You don’t understand what’s the issue. It’s the design in series 70 1911s. Find me a story of this happening outside of purposefully dropping it on an exact point.
Regarding green dots, they will absolutely wash out in daylight conditions in thick green foliage. Think scanning treelines, draws ect... for competition, won't matter at all, but real-world use, it definitely has downsides imo vs red.
I have heard the green dot is a fairly large negative under NODs as well. Has been the reason I have been given why most guys doing night work, SF, ect, have remained using red dots only.
This has been my experience in the bright NC summers. Everything is a shade of bright green. Sun through foliage can be very bright green. Maybe not a problem for somebody who always shoots against berms or in desert, etc.
Fair, but how many stories have you heard from cops and mil guys that their 1911 went off when they dropped it? Since 1911… They have NDs all the time with their SA/DA and striker drop safe guns, that’s not being dropped. A 1911 isn’t for people that are not committed to their craft.
@@HWG-wm8ld I can't remember hearing about a series 70 going off from a drop but that's kind of my point. It's a very rare thing. NDs are a more common and prevalent issue than drop safety.
It is a bit disappointing. I am aware of what series 70 is. So, it is not surprising. However, there are also claims out on the net saying to the effect of, "This gun has passed drop tests of many departments...." There are people here whining, "It's a series 70, this is nothing new...blah blah." but AT THE SAME TIME, "Not a problem! It still passes standard drop test...blah blah." Isn't this cognitive dissonance? Why was an issue known since the Series 70 not fixed for decades? If a so called "standard drop test" passes a gun with an issue known for decades then what is that so called "standard drop test" even testing? For me personally, it may be argued that the slim probability of dropping the gun at an exact attitude is outweighed by the benefit of having a gun a shooter can be accrate with. Although 1911 or 2011 is not my preference for securiy purpose. So, I would not be opposed to anyone choosing to use it. However, I question why Series 80 AFPB is not more prevalent. People whine about Series 80 trigger actuating the firing pin block making the trigger bad. But, the Series 80 Commander I tried was not bad at all, and I do not feel even my Staccato P trigger is any better. There appears to be no willingness to innovate here.
@@HWG-wm8ld And? In WWII, my grandfather was part of a unit that recovered and reworked unexploded ordnance. Nobody will even TOUCH that stuff these days because it's too dangerous. Times change and safety standards go up.
