Standard Array VS Roll for Stats? NEITHER | Best Way to Generate Ability Scores in D&D Characters 

This is not exactly the homebrew for me or the tables I play at *BUT* I really like how you explain your thinking process and the different versions of it. I love how you give us a point to work from so we can make the homebrew that works for us. Thank you, Coach :)

Rolling stats is one of the most exciting parts of the game. Keeping the party balanced is one of the most important. This does both. Way to draw up a good play, coach.

Math + Chance = Best of Both Worlds! Keep that content train rolling (teehee) DC!

In my latest campaign, I used a very similar system where they rolled for 4 of their stats, and divided the remainder however they wanted (with a floor and ceiling) for the remaining 2 stats. It allowed for mostly randomized stats with some customization, but equal power balance between players.

This is so helpful! I’m a brand new DM and I’ve been binge watching your videos for the past 15 hours 😂 thanks so much coach!

21K, get 'em coach!

Honestly the best way I've seen someone come up with rolling for stats. Your homebrew is awesome!

I like these options, but my favourite method is probably roll 2D6+4 for each stat. This gives you the boundary of 6-16 naturally. Though I may steal the idea of having the stats add up to 72 points to make it a bit more balanced if they roll really badly.

The standard array is from the point buy system. Total of 72 points isn't accurate to how they make it. If you went with a perfectly above average PC you could have 12, 12, 12, 13, 13, 13 for a total of 75 points. Or a min maxer could have 8, 8, 8, 15, 15, 15 for a total of 69 (nice) points. It's intentional to make players have to give up more to achieve those higher numbers.

Whenever I have my players roll I let them roll 4d6 drop lowest for all 6 stats. Then if you rolled above 75 congrats you rolled well and get to have higher than average stats. If you roll below 75 then you get to add points until you reach 75 points, so congrats you have descent stats, but you got to customize them to be more optimized. This is my favorite way to do it because both low and high rolls get rewarded.

one method i found on reddit that i really liked is: roll 1d6, 1d8, and 1d10 stats are determined by 10 + result on d6 15 - result on d6 (same number as before) 10 + d8 15 - d8 8 + d10 17 - d10

Been following your channel for a bit now and each time is something that feels just right. Living these idea for when I run my first

"72 = 72 *MATHHH" made me lol xD Great technique, coach. I've been doing something similar for a while (though definitely a little more powerful) which is to roll 4d6-low six times, and the total must be between 72 and 84 (just reroll if it's not). I also really like the idea of just giving them 72 points to completely customize their stats!

I think that this is probably the best video I've seen from you so far. Good job bro, keep it up.

Waaaay back in Basic D&D, you rolled a 3d6 for each ability, from Str to Cha in that order. You chose your class based on what you rolled. It was only later in AD&D there were different methods, like rolling 4d6 or 3d6 x6 for each ability, giving your character an increased chance of being heroic. This way before Ability Score Increase was introduced in 3E so increasing your ability score was rarer than getting an artifact.

Love this coach. The way I do it is if someone rolls lower than an 8, they can roll again or take an 8. Likewise If someone rolls higher than a 16, they can roll again or take a 16. I use the total of all 6 stats as 74, which is the average roll total of 4d6 drop lowest.

As a DM who has tested several homebrew systems of rolling stats over the years, I have to say I think this is one of the most inspired, simple, and intuitive methods I have encountered yet. Nice Work, and thank you!

I've included this in my house rules, setting the floor at 8 and the roof at 16. My table recently rolled up new characters, and this makes me feel a lot better about the party balance. I cannot thank you enough! You've single-handedly fixed my biggest problem with 5e as a DM. You are an absolute legend.

Very cool system! I will try this out sometime and see how it goes. Usually I go with good old point-buy to evade huge imbalances in the group, but this certainly gets around that while still leaving the rolling!

So simple, yet genius. Great video as always coach :)

Seriously every video I watch I have to pause every few seconds to write down notes haha keep it up man! I may need to join your patreon to get all the other nuggets

This. Is. Amazing. I have been trying to think of a way myself to incorporate rolling for stats and keeping everyone on the same playing field. This is absolutely perfect! Fantastic Work Sir!

There are many good ways. I'm glad you're bringing various methods to people's attention 🤙

Interesting method. Definitely going to try it for my next campaign. So far, I've been using a shared rolled array for my games. I have each player roll 4d6 dropping the lowest and combine the results into an array that is shared by the party. It makes everyone suck together or be OP together. My players have been enjoying it, even the ones that absolutely hate rolling for stats.

I've been using this method since you mentioned it before, love it! It combines the thrill of rolling with the balance of a fixed number.

YES, I love this!!! I am wrapping up a campaign, most likely next week and starting a new one with my group and I am gonna take SO MANY of your homebrew rules and add them to my game, starting with this one since I am gonna have a good session 0 where we go over everything. And starting at level 1 which I have never done before because I always thought it was lame until you changed my mind completely.

New DM here from Germany! This helped me really out! Thanks alot! Stay Strong and role high!

I love this! For my one current group this would have worked out amazingly. I'll definitely try this out for my next group.

Hey DC, great video. I agree with your point about all players being on the same page in regards to stats. In my last game, (5 players and 1 GM), we all rolled one stat each, and those 6 stats were the stat line all the players got to work with. It worked pretty well, and it have the players a sense of unity 😁

I like it. I am planning for an AD&D 2e campaign and this will work very well for it as well. Thanks for posting this video.

36pt buy, all stats start at 6, each point costs a point, only 1 stat can be 18 before racial modifiers. That's my preferred way to do it if I have an experienced table. If I don't, I just go with my modified version of the standard array. So in a way, I kind of also do a version of your point buy that you mentioned toward the end. I like the creativity Dungeon Coach! Subscribed!

I like this! The process is very good, I see it as quite balanced, while still inspiring personality from the numbers. I had been struggling a bit to break from my "point buy" system. I just disliked the extreme randomness of the rolls. This certainly gives a nice middle ground (if a bit number crunchy - but given how much game play WILL happen from the characters made, I think dedicated players are more than willing to do the ground work over just wanting to "JUMP IN"). I'll certainly field test it. See how it goes. Thankyou for this. I look forward to browsing your other videos! :)

Nice video! I’ll definitely use it when I start a new game.

Hey, I've been using this system for quite some time now. It's been pretty well so far, no complains

This has to be the best stat gen method I've ever seen xD I love the mix of randomness from rolling for stats and the fairness of standard array. will be using it in my next campaign

Great video, I learned something new. Thank you!!

I'm a new DM, and I had my players generate their ability scores *yesterday*. If you had posted this a few days sooner, I probably would have used this method. Instead, I let my players vote between Point Buy and the Matt Colville method (everyone had to use the same method), and they voted for Point Buy.

Oh man this is a juicy meathod. Another siiiick homebrew thanks coach.

thanx so much for this video!!! this is gold!!

The last two times I ran a game I did standard array. My usual go-to method is the same as your last method of just giving out points. Mourad you like this and I'll give it a shot for my next game

i cant get enough of your videos. Def gonna use this on the next game i run!!!!!

Physicist here: I love this method so much, great use of maths to incorporate balance and rolling!!

I really, really like this - will pitch it to my players next campaign!

Here’s another alternative that uses random dice rolls, keeps all characters mathematically in the same ballpark, and allows for customization like a point buy: Roll 9d6, group into 3 sets of 3d6, those are three of your stats. Subtract each number from 24 (if you’re totaling 72) or could be 25/26 if you’re allowing a stronger array. The results are your other three stats. Unhappy with a particular result? Swap a point or 2 within matched pairs. 3d6 grouped = 17, 24-17=7, don’t want a 7? Okay move points from the 17 to the 7. Very similar to DC’s method.

It's amazing; it seems perfectly balanced across all methods so that no PC is outshined by another's superior dice luck. This is the greatest ability score generation method (player's choice of any them, cuz 72=72) that I have ever come across. You've done what I've aspired to do for years now; I love it so much and will 100% be implementing them.

This is very very interesting! Going to send this videos to my players :))

I love the free allocation of 72 pts. I have an compulsion to use numbers divisible by 5 so have to do 70 or 75 for my characters. Thanks for the wonderful homebrew ideas. I'm stealing them all.

I've been using this method of rolle for 5, calculate the 6th for years now, BUT I use point-buy method, instead of 72 total. It's so great, and I'm glad to see someone make this way more popular and spreading the joy :D

I love this idea! The "surprise" stat at the end of your rolls is a fun touch. I saw a short from Nerd Immersion about rolling 8 d20s and dropping your lowest two rolls to make a character and I enjoy that because when else would you get to roll 8 d20s?

Wow this is a very cool solution to rolling random numbers! Smart :)

I have been doing exactly that. Love it. Was playing with the idea of 72. Wherever you want. One stat has a floor of 8, the rest have a floor of 10. Second idea was similar but 62 instead of 72... but they get 1pt every level.

Oooo, very interesting. I've gotta try this with my players!

That’s a neat method. I tend to do a “heroic” array, 16,15,13,11,9,8 (Flaws and good stats, pretty balanced but overall positive). But as you touched on, the downside is it takes away from the fun of rolling

In our games we use the straight roll system with two caveats: if your roll totals are under 72, you can take standard array or gamble on one more roll set and take whatever happens. To date no one has had a stupidly low set twice in row. The other thing is that, if starting at level one (which we don’t always), 18 is your cap for any one stat, so if you have stat that will be bumped up by a race or other bonus your functional cap on those rolls is a 16 or maybe 17. Keeps anyone from getting totally hosed while allowing a little extra for for those who rolled lucky without being ridiculous.

This is a really great rolling system, and I like that you can nudge up/down the total depending on how powerful you want your Lv1 party. We play a point buy of 31 or 29+feat (max 17, min 6). It's powerful but fun, allows our DM to hit us hard from the get-go, and brings character concepts online earlier - and if anybody wants to run a 6 intelligence or charisma, our DM makes sure they need to roleplay it properly.

My favorite method is where each player rolls a d6, or multiple, until we have 6 numbers. Players can each assign those numbers to A, B, C, D, E, F as they individually like. Then (to get a total of 72, let's say), you would do: STR: 12 + A - B DEX: 12 + B - C CON: 12 + C - D INT: 12 + D - E WIS: 12 + E - F CHA: 12 + F - A Your range will be anywhere from 7 to 17. Whatever you use as the baseline is the total you have (6×12=72 here), because you are going to overall add and subtract every die roll.

I was originally going to ask about the Point Buy system (my favorite system for stats in my opinion), but you covered that really well. This actually trumps Point Buy, which has me torn a bit.

Ok, this is a cool idea. Definitely giving it a try next time I DM.

This is absolutely awesome.

That’s really smart, I’m going to start doing this

This is an awesome idea. I'm gonna combine it with the bingo method as well (because I've always wanted to try that)

I’d like to get into this game. Great video

I’ve got a homebrew idea I’d love to see expanded on. The idea is a remake of the fighting style and weapon proficiency system for fighting classes. Essential the idea is the list of weapons your class is proficient in is now instead a list you can choose from and at lvl 1 you can choose only 2 or three weapons from this list (the amount varies based on class and especially for fighters you get to learn additional ones at higher levels). Each weapon type now has their own fighting styles you can learn, and as you level up you can upgrade these styles to make them stronger or get new abilities related to it (for example a light weapon will let you learn duel wielding wich at lvl 1 is simple the extra damage buff, but at higher levels you’d get things like not having to use a bonus action for the extra attack, or getting a flurry attack that stacks both weapon dice into one melee attack etc.) the idea is each weapon type: light, finesse, two handed, ranged, thrown, and heavy all get upgraded fighting styles based on that type and extra ones based on wether the weapon deals bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing. (You could include a lot of the feats that give these buffs as well, having them be restricted to higher levels, or in some cases just leaving them as feats)

I actually really like this!

Your homebrew generator is an excellent solution between ease, function, and customization. I'm definitely bringing it up to my group next time we make new characters. My party uses a few homebrew ability score rules. These are almost constants for us: No lvl 1 character can have an ability score above 18 (even after racial bonuses) and a player can increase their ability without limit (instead of a maximum of 20). I had a "dice math" brainstorm a while ago to come up with my own stat generator: 20d6 allotted however the player chooses. The average ability score total is 70 but it allows for meaningful customization. I haven't had anyone roll below 60 or above mid 80's, but anyone who has played with a combat oriented wizard knows, "the more dice you roll, the more likely the total will be an average roll." The customization also allows a poor roll produce a character with ability score bonuses and min-max opportunities (using the max of 18 rule means a min-maxer has to think a bit or waste some of their precious points). What I really like how you can use how the dice are allotted as inspiration for character background: is your character with 18 strength an innately strong mountain dwarf using only 3 dice or did he struggle through gruelling training using 6 dice? Was he a child prodigy that struggled with growth later on, represented with evenly spread high and low rolls? Maybe some of your 1's are from trauma or 6's are because of an outstanding mentor?

Interesting, have a session 0 today so will bring this up.

I used a Grid method last time i ran a game, you make a grid that is 6x6, have your players roll 6 scores and fill in the grid with each number (if you have less than 6 players you can either have them all roll extra to fill in the blanks or you roll to fill in the blanks) then this creates a chart of 6 rows and 6 columns of stats and each player can choose a row or column. it lets everyone roll for stats, but if one player has a real bad stat line they now have the opportunity to pick one that is a little better either by taking another rolled stat line or one thats a number from each player.

I love this. I would not recommend for newer players (character creation is complicated enough. {I’m an advocate for pre-gens anyway}) But I do love this method!

I like to give my players the option of point buy, standard array or roll on an individual basis instead of as a whole party doing the same but i make rolling be 1d8+7 per stat. This gives you a floor of 8 and a ceiling of 15 just like the other two methods all the possibilities are equal and not spread over a bell curve and the roll feels like a genuine risk

This is what I'm using from now on. MAN that's such a great method, all the fun of the roll without the TERRIBLE unfairness when a player gets bad rolls

In my table, we roll the six statistics normally, then we add all the modifiers, for example, in a game with 3 players, they have 8, 9 and 13, now the player counts the highest character modifiers minus their character modifiers, for example 13 - 9 = 4, and add the number however you want, four times one or two times two and etc., in your stats(not modifiers) I think this method helps to balance the group and still makes the randomness of the dice very important but I liked your method DC, I will try it on my next campaign 👍

Next time I start a campaign I will most likely be doing this. I sort of used this in one of my current campaigns when one person rolled low while everyone else was on the higher end of average. I have enough points to match the next lowest person so they ended up around equal power

I love this and might use it for my next campaign! I generally use 3d6, drop lowest and add 6 (so everything is between 8-18) Because I dislike the idea of "heroic" characters having stats below the lowest average for a human. But I think I may like your system better then mine XD.

Definitely going to give this a try. While having lower stat characters is fun, it's not so much when everyone else has high stats. Worse it makes building balanced encounters really tough, kind of like a level 2 character trying to roll with level 5s.

If you want to do a bit more stable rolls you can always go 2d6+4 or 3d6, drop the lowest one and +4. Gets nice rolled stats from 6 to 16 eliminating those 3 or 18+ racial bonus in a stat. Could be also interesting to combine with the method in the video

My dm does something similar to your point buy system but you start with 8 in all stats and you get 30 points to spend however you want. You can also gain more points by decreasing a stat below 8 so it's functionally the same as starting at 0 with 78 points using your system. It's worked out pretty well so far, and the dm likes to not pull their punches so the extra *chonk* is a nice buffer.

I actually really like this idea and think I'll give it a try. It encompasses the chaos of the rolling but keeps things balanced 95% of the time. But there's that chance that your stats might just be absolutely insane, which is VERY fun. Almost every group I've ever played with has preferred to roll for stats, even if they get terrible ones. Something about the chaos is just so appealing to them

I just use the point buy out of the PHB. Rolling seems like needless complication if you're going to customize scores anyways.

I used this method for my 2 newest campaigns its incredibly balanced and the player's loved the dice rolling and unknown of their 6th stat

Love you bringing in the math! How should I pitch this to my players? I worry that they'll think it's too complicated...

I personally opted to build a homebrew point buy system. It takes the values from the standard set and extends the table to range from 6 (for a 2 point buy back) to 18 (for 19 points). I also change the budget to 30. I prefer slightly beefier characters.

Yeah, this is awesome. I play a lot with my two daughters, and the situation with one rolling consistently high and the other consistently low happens CONSTANTLY. Also, I find a lot of times rolling results in a lot of numbers that are above average and none of those highs and lows that will help bring a character out of a collection of random numbers, and I don't like the standard array, as everyone has the same six numbers, and prefer dice to be involved as often as possible. Definitely going forward this will be my standard method. I may bump it to 74 when I have fewer players.

My favorite stat generation method I've theorycrafted (still to be tested!) is with playing cards. You take a stack of cards that has a pair of 4s, 5s, 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s Then shuffle and deal them out into 6 pairs. The lowest possibility is 8, highest 18, but you can't get those numbers twice. Makes the spread random, but also forces it to conform to a narrow point buy spread in the end.

I have been doing the one where you have so many points (I went with 74 instead of 72) for about a year, and it has been great

I dig this 😊. I usually rule that they: 1. Roll 6 times 2. Roll 4d6 and drop any one 3. One stat can be replaced with a free 18 (sometimes I’ll say 16) 4. Your lowest stat below 10 can be rerolled, but you must take the new roll. 5. You can lower any stat by any amount (if they wanna shunt themselves for roleplay purposes or whatnot, then I won’t stop them basically) I also run a pretty challenging game, so I like giving them one stat that can be their “I’m a pro at this” because I know I’ll be challenging that 18 (often made into a 20 via race mods). Regardless, your method feels good. Perhaps I’ll try it out sometime 😊

Love your videos. A suggestion: What if you just had them roll all 6 stats then compared it to the 72 number you mentioned. If they went over they have to remove until the equal 72, if they are under they add until they get to 72.

The build or decrease to 72 seems sooo good. I'm really excited with using it for my next game.

This is great!

When my friends and I played 3rd Edition we rolled 4d6 discard the lowest for 5 characters and then chose the characters stats we liked. It's a lot of rolling but you end up with a character you want. In the 3rd Edition DM's guide they offered a similar practice albeit it was only 3d6 per character but the minor addition of 4d6 drop the lowest works better. Besides you get to roll more dice! :D

A DM of mine used a self balancing card drawing system. Two cards of every number from 4-8 as well as one 3 and one 9 for a total of twelve cards. Players then draw six pairs of cards, removing them from the deck as they go, each pair's total becoming the Ability Scores. To avoid Min-Maxing, but allow for some viability choice, he had each pair represent the Ability Scores in order with the player allowed to switch any two pairs one time. Adding up all those cards equals the same magic 72 and it has a minimum score of 7 (drawing a 3 and a 4 on one pull) and a max of 17 (drawing an 8 and a 9 in one pull). This will almost always have some spread that is very level from 10-14 across the board or have a couple high pulls with the rest being pretty low. I always thought it was a really unique, still chance based way to get that tactile investment into the character while having the whole party be somewhat balanced with eachother.

This is... perfection

I like this because it gives the players who roll badly a super stat to make up for it. And gives the high rollers at least one weakness. And it is easy to shift the total number for whatever you are going for. For example higher for a super hero campaign or lower for level zero characters or something.

Pulling from a number of comments and things I've seen elsewhere I came up with this: First 3 stats: 3d6 drop lowest + 4 Other 3 stats: 24 - above rolls Always gets 72 total (when you add them up it's 24*3 and the rolls cancel out). Almost 90% of the time you'll end up rolling 9-15 with a corresponding 15-9 with the subtraction. A little less than a 10% chance of an 8 & 16 combo leaving a little more than 1% chance of rolling a 6 or 7 which gives you an 18 or 17 for your other stat. Very consistent and always fair for everyone

One of the things that I loved about Champions (Hero System) was that you were allowed to use a points system to stat out your characters. All players start with the same points, but could “buy” more points by taking Disadvantage points. That allowed you to start with something really cool, but your character had to take a significant Kryptonite type weakness of some sort.

Great idea

I've played a version of roll for stats where you also re-roll 1s. Everyone except the DM had never played D&D before in that campaign so being really strong definitely helped me and the party. XD

Wow. That is so unique. Rolling for attributes and mitigating the randomness is a new spin. That is pretty cool. Personally I have my own take. I have a fixed set of attributes given after a player picks class. These are attributes based on what the class would be good at and find useful. If one makes a fighter, they would automatically give high strength and constitution. If they make a wizard, they automatically get intellegence instead. In DND, attributes tend to be straight up useless if given to the wrong class. This is especially true for mental attribrutes. One may as well automatically give the right attributes, after a player picks a class. My method is just like how video games. For example, one starts World of Warcraft by creating thier character. It only takes a few minutes. One gets to choose thier name, class and race. The rest is costomizing appearence. One picks the character gender, skin color, hair sytle and so on. The player doesn't pick thier attributes at all. So I am assuming the game gives them automatically. More hard core players can adjust thier attrubutes by getting special armor and weapons. I am use to that. It works the same way in Pokemon. One doesn't pick attributes every time they catch a new Pokemon. There is a set of attributes given due to species. There is some randomness. There is also customization for the hard core players. Having players roll thier attributes or pick thier attributes is way overcomplicating that. So I developed a set of attributes that are automatically given for each class. I do allow for players to pick attributes when they level up. Every few levels they get a boost. So that gives some customization. I do this to make the attributes accomidate subclasses better. If two players have different subclasses of the same class, they would benifit from different attributes. There are some wierd subclasses out there. The wierdes in the Player's Handbook is the eldrich knight fighter and the arcane trickster rogue. Fighters and rogues are martial classes. So they would benefit from strength, dexterity and stamina. Strength tends to better for fighters. Dexterity tends to be better for rogues. However the really wierd fighters and rogues have the ability to use some magic. So they would want more intellelgence instead. I want there to be some flexibility to allow for that. Then the Xanathar and Chandra books have lots of wierd subclasses. It is so cool. At that point I throw up my harnds and just allow for customization on level up. It is fair for a class to account for most of the attributes and subclass determine some of it. Class can account for 3/4, 2/3, 7/10 or something. Hit points is another thing that gets randomized. That is also strange and overcomplicating. This is also something that isn't done in video games. It is bewidering that hit points is such a simple concept, but DND makes it so convoluted. This is one of the most essential concepts in the combat system. Hit points are a difference between life and death. I really don't want to have this rely on luck. So I have the hit points as a fixed number. I also have a fixed amount of healing during rests. I came up with the idea of body types. There are four body types. The scrawny and frail body type has less hit points. The brawny and musculer body type has more hit points. There are four body types ranging from frail to musculer. It is based on hit dice. Each class has its own body type. So a burly barbarian is going to have more hit points than a scrawny wizard. That class has a stronger body type. Oddly barbarians are the only class with the highest body type. Characters also gain hit points when they level up. Figuring this out is so complicated that I wrote out a chart. It gives a number based on level and body type. A player uses the chart to look up that number. Then they add thier constitution bonis. Then that gives thier hit points. I don't know if DC 20 has a video on hit points. It is still neat. Just keep it simple.

All Dms have different ways, but personally I really like 2d6+6. Gives a range from 8-18. Gives a nice balance. One other thing I do is allow other players to steal different players arrays. I hate the feeling of rolling really low and watching someone else roll well. I get your method but don't like the low of a 6. Honestly I'd rather do modified standard array or point buy. I really like your point buy system though, I may try that!

My players and i really enjoy this method. It creates more dynamic play having characters actually bad at something rather than god tier stats in everything.

I actually did something a bit similar in terms of point buy, but pick 73 or 74 (depending on how lenient I wish to be) instead of 72 because, when rolling 6 times 4d6 and keeping only the highest 3 rolls, the average is roughly 73.47 :)