So this one takes 'Not to Scale' to whole new levels, the Hive ships are WAY off, but there's no way I could do those on scale and maintain detail with the smaller ships. Also, I know I mention planetary defense weapons and then don't actually show them in the battle, but exactly the same thing happens in the episode, I guess maybe the fleet never got close enough for them to fire.
Could you please do the battle in Star Trek DS9's Sacrifice of Angels? It was called Operation Return, and the wormhole battle that ensued marked the turning point of the war, since thousands of dominion ships were spirited out of existence by the Bajoran gods.
They just got sent into the future, there is a great missionseries in STO where they come out of the WH and take over DS9 and you have to travel to the founders to get them to surrender the station :)
I have to agree with that. And later when this was adressed the writes tried to solve this with a cheap explanation that the ships built by the Asuras were not as effective and were poorly and rapidly built after the Horizon destroyed their shipyards and completed ships.
What I love about Stargate is how much the Tau'ri grew in such a short time. They start off with "we have some nice... shuttles" and end as the dominant force in the Milky Way and a major player in Pegasus in the space of a couple decades, yet none of it felt cheap or unearned. They reverse engineered Goa'uld tech, proved themselves trustworthy to the Asgard, and adapted and improved on Ancient technologies. By far one of the coolest Sci-Fi shows on TV.
Part of what made Stargate's space battles so impressive compared to other shows is that it was six years before the Tau'ri actually fought a space battle themselves. Every engagement dripped with payoff. The battle over the Arctic, while pretty good by most show's standards, is absolutely amazing in Stargate because we saw every step of the journey to where the Tau'ri are able to defend their own soil against invaders, even if they couldn't have won on their own.
I think the plot is actually streched thin in how many technologies they are able to recreate without having the necessary scientific knowledge and infrastructure and how it is depicted as being superior to the original. Seems too much of a stretch. Even when they had weapons and gear that was far behind their enemies, that equipement still seemed to outpeform the enemy because plot.
for a very, very long time in the franchise, a lot of the tech was extremely bad even compared to the goa'uld, and often the battles were only won by sheer, dumb luck. The technology wasn't really "better" until much longer after it was discovered, and even then there were still major flaws and issues. The simulation chair, for example. It wasn't until the asgard literally gave away everything that the tau'ri became something major. However, it is something worth understanding that the goa'uld had their own problems as well. For all intents and purposes, they ran a fleet off what might as well be mountains of ducktape and slaves; they never innovated on anything. It was all just stolen, and what little that wasnt, was terrible. Soldiers wore plate armor long into the tauri-goa'uld conflict, and they never seemed to get the picture that armor piercing bullets can counter their armor in a way that their typical enemies - crossbow and sword wielding primitives/slaves - cannot. The replicators were wiped out through only dumb luck as well, considering how it took the lucky discovery of a super weapon that fired at the same time all across the galaxy at once to stop them. The Ori on the other hand, were the first truly formidable enemy, and they obliterated everything in their way with no opposition until the very final, ending episode of the show.
Man I wonder why stargate does not have a big sounding in the SciFi community. All is Star Trek and Star Wars, but SG has enough storyline, material and even mythology to compete with them.
I just recently started watching Star Gate on Hulu. Almost through Atlantis and am on season 4 of SG-1. Personally have been greatly enjoying the shows. Every since I was a kid Star Wars was my main thing. Through Disney's discontinuing of the stories I have been fallowing for years, made me take a step back from Star Wars; helping me branch out to a wider verity of sci-fi media.
Stargate became more of a spiritual successor to Star Trek for tech, ideology and themes than anything from the abramverse. The writing did get a little stale or forced near the end but I still liked it. And I'm sure there is a very large following in the scifi community. Just not in the casual joe schmo audience that's easily impressed by the flashy drek of Michael Bay, Zach Snyder, and JJ Abrams. You should also check out Babylon 5 if you haven't yet.
I remember watching stargate on tv as a kid in the late 90s going into highschool. Love the lore, tech and star ships. Combining current world tech with alien tech was a good story.
its really sad, because the guy who played shepherd in SGA offered to buy the franchise, but MGM said no because the original director of the movies was pulling favors, and keeping tabs on it to make sure he could get his second chance with a stargate reboot (which was thrown out the window when independence day 2 flopped hardcore)
Stargate is easily my favourite sci-fi franchise. I love how you see humanity's space-faring technology evolves over the course of the show. 1st season of SG-1 they literally just have the real-life Space Shuttle, then they try out stuff like the X-301, then have success with the F-302, then they build their first capital ship in the BC-303 Prometheus-class, then finally the BC-304 Daedalus-class. We're finally getting more Stargate now so hopefully that leads us to see some new adventures, some new alien races and new ship designs, including new Earth/human ships hopefully.
I also think the show is the perfect mix of being a show about humanity exploring the galaxy/universe and discovering amazing things out there, and also having the military/war aspect to it.
I think they advanced to starships unrealistically fast. There's no way they could have funded and built Prometheus as fast as they did and keep it secret.
What's funny that they didn't need to put the Daedalus or other earth ships in danger, a puddle jumper can take a wraith fleet , it take 8 drones to destroy a hive ship and 3 to take out a cruiser , so just have a tactical nuke under the jumper and go cloak fly into the hive ship bay drop nuke and leave and shoot 9 drones for the 3 cruisers that accompany it and let nuke go off and escape to a stargate etc rinse and repeat lol
My biggest issue with this is I'm unable to understand why the Tauri didn't have several teams of like 5 people on standby to beam aboard all the Asuran ships as soon as the replicators were sucked down. We know that the Wraith managed to steal multiple ZPMs during the battle, and that any Aurora class ship can even be flown with just one person in the control chair. Even if they had managed to get hold of one or two ships before the Planet exploded. Two full strength Aurora class ships could have turned the war against the Wraith after seeing what the Orion managed when more than half it's key systems weren't even operational.
If the original plan had worked they wouldn't have had time for that. Also trying it would be the best way to get the Wraith betray you in the midle of the battle.
Abhishek Rajendran My biggest issue is that Rodney turned one of greatest potential allies into "just another replicators we'll kill of as if they're nonsentients". Everything else that followed was irrevalent.
Abhishek Rajendran My biggest issue is aurora class warships supposedly would go out alone deep into wraith territory and were said to be nearly invincible. The wraith could take them down but it took a much larger group of wraith hive ships. So, realistically, 31 auroras vs 7 hive ships should be over in minutes with no wraith left an no damage to the auroras. The asurans were also supposed to have nearly defeated the wraith after the lanteans left, so their auroras cant be that inferior compared to the lantean versions. The last issue i have is that the apollo and daedalus are overpowered. The have asgard tech powered by inferior reactors (not nearly the power generation of a zpm). So if an asgard tech apollo with relatively weak power generation is better than fully powered auroras would indicate that asgard tech is superior to ancient tech. We know this not to be true due to thors comment about them barely being able to scratchnthe surface of the ancient legacy device.
Im surprised they were able to beam anybody in this battle. Remember that Wraith have counter measures preventing beaming? Propably the same thing works for Asurans.
False Prophet and yet, Asgard MILITARY tech is the most powerfull in the series and... the only unique one. Wraith, Goa'uld, Ori, us and everyone else simply use Ancients tech in our own watered down cheap copies. Asgard are the only ones who have unique tech designed by them.
Ah, the Battle of Asuras. It was nowhere near as dramatic or awe-inspiring as the Battle of the Supergate, but the eye-candy was glorious. The tactics involved were really well done too, and sweet heavens, that opening balls-to-the-walls charge by the Tau-ri ships was awesome. More than that...can anyone imagine the initial war between the Wraith and the Ancients? The Ancient fleet surely had to be comparable in size to that of the Asurans, which means that the Wraith armada that overwhelmed them must've been massive. They must've had at least a hundred Hive ships, perhaps even as many as two hundred. The battles in that war would've been extraordinary.
They also under-estimated the wraith threat. They didn't see them as a problem until it was too late. They won nearly all the engagements with the wraith but downtime and maintenance took it's toll on crew/ships and that was the lanteans eventual downfall, plus they had to protect MANY systems from the wraith and technology from them. Most of the time whenever a ZPM powered ship or interstellar hyperdrive was in a position to be captured it was self-destructed to prevent capture. Even then the wraith did manage to get some ZPMs and it lead the wraith to grow/breed more hive ships and soldiers which overwhelmed the lanteans.
Cailus Griffin 200 ships ? Take thousands. Wraith made so many ships and well.. Wraiths that after they "destroyed" Atlantis they all starved to death until the low enough number let them hibernate.
I don't think it was one big battle. It was just endless small battles. The Wraith took out a few ships here and there continuously and faster than the Ancients could replenish.
Wraiths were growing their ships "for free" - they just needed planets with right resources. Crews could be grown too, and with ZPM (or other powerful energy sources) it could be tens of thousands soldiers created within days. Ofc they would need people to feed on and by destroying planets which couldn't be defended Ancients could win... but they were too naive.
You forgot that the Wraith used that battle to get their hands on several ZPMs, which led straight into the finale, when one of Todd’s underlings used a ZPM to grow a typical Hive ship (already huge) into a super-Hive, capable of shrugging off those Asgard beams and blasting any known ship with ease, as well as jump straight to Earth. They were forced to go back to the movie way of dealing with large alien ships - put a nuke inside.
Yeah I recognised it instantly too. so why does it say the music is "Battlezone 2 by Carey Chico"? I i'm pretty sure the main composer for the supcom games was Jeremy Soule, so I don't recognise that.
I love your analyses of space battles. They're an excellent addition to an already brilliant channel. Thank you for creating them and I look forward to future episodes.
They also didn't plan to blow up the planet. The original plan was that the replicators would form into a giant mass and wouldn't be able to reorganize and would just reset into a giant puddle. (like when mcckay discovered the replicatior bench on atlantis)
Well if I remember correctly, they were intending to get some ZPMs, but Rodney decided to blow up the planet instead because it was necessary. And there was no time to get the ZPMs.
The original plan was to overload the ZPMs to make sure the replicators are destroyed and while I don't want to point fingers, the black out that prevented Rodney from doing so may have very well been the result of Tod stealing ZPMs.
Man seeing this makes me want to watch the last few seasons of Atlantis and SG1. I am upset that we haven't seen a new Stargate TV show in almost 10 years, they need to show the adventures of a new team in the Milky Way out of SGC.
Hey, by the end it was getting pretty damn good. They just didn't give it time to settle into self. It had so much room to grow as a story, so much to explore, BSG or not it could've been fucking amazing if they had just let it play out a bit more... I mean, that episode where they explored the colony the crew made? I was tearing up rather badly at times during those bits.
there's a new Stargate mini-show that's going to be online only, but it's supposed to be directed by this lady who supposedly has zero experience in the field. I dont have much hope for it being anything beyond subpar, particularly with the plot direction they're taking.
It is my opinion that Vancouver the seat of acme shark (MGMs stargate subsidiary) is too caught up in the PC far left crap to make any new stargate little more than propaganda, give it time the SGC Atlantis and the rest of the universe isn't going anywhere
Once again damiel u are the man for this terrific stragetic analysis of one of stargate atlantis greatest space battle scences in its entire showing....
Really appreciate that you're doing some Stargate lore. Stargate is near and dear to my heart, and I feel like enough attention isnt always paid to it.
The thing I love most about the Stargate universe is how the technology advances for the humans. I can't think of another show that depicts the advancement of technology like Stargate does.
the one thing that bugs me about that battle, if I had been in charge I would beamed maybe 5 people with the gene aboard separate ships, boom you just added 5 Aroura class ships to your fleet, keep two in Pegasus and send the other three back to the Milky Way to fight the Ori.
The hyperdrives of the Aurora class are a bit slow for practical intergalactic travel. You'd need to refit the ship with an Asgard-designed drive bigger than what the BC-304 to get it to the Milky Way in time. And it's not like the ships would last anyway. Stargate Command has a very bad track record with alien ships.
Seeing as the replicators don't need life support or the ancient gene to use their stuff, they probably won't have the chair to control. Plus with the replicator cells all breaking through the hull, the ships would have suffered severe damage to move.
True the Aurora battle cruisers are good ships to there own right but would be heavenly damaged by a hive ship and would be more effective to use a puddle jumper it has 12 drones and cloak and it takes 8 be drones to destroy a hive and 3 for a cruiser , put a tactical nuke under the thing go in the hive cloak drop nuke , leave and shoot 9 drones to destroy cruisers and let the nuke go off and escape to a stargate etc rinse and repeat lol
Honestly, the better upgrade would be Carter's modification to the Beam. The Matter Converter would be their holy grail. The ability to take any old space debris you come across and turn it into brand spanking new parts for your ships... Or food, water, oxygen. Anything they could ever need at their fingertips. Just need matter to feed in and the schematics of what you want out.
I love stargate, and this episode was fuckinb sweet. That said, I was always disapointed that the replicator ships went down like chumps. Seriously I remember one Auroa class battleship getting taking down by an F302.
Todd, “Very true, Spacedock. But during the battle, I acquire a batch of ZPMs, three for the cloning facility and the rest to create the ultimate weapon.” Elizabeth Weir, “Not to mention, the hunt for me and my faction stop, and we can proceed with our goal: Ascension.
What always struck me as weird about ths battle was that the aurora class ships were supposedly vastly superior to wraith hives, yet the wraiths suffer very few casualties
Broken Drum they were taken by surprise and engaged at point blank range and they only expected 2 ships, not a whole armada. Just see how the Apollo jumped in only a few meters from an Aurora and opened fire at the moment, shreding it with the railguns.
No drones. Also the Wraith had atleast 10000 years of development. The Asurans just sat on their asses pretending to be Lantians and finding a way for Replicator ascension.
The Asuran ships were mass produced in a very short amount of time. They built a fleet of 40 ships in just a few months. And that was after earth nuked their planet and destroyed their shipyard in addition to half a dozen ships that were already under construction. So the ships were probably not as powerful as the ones the Ancients built.
and remembeer when anubis attacked eart, and the outpost fired all it's drones..Yeah, Asuras had multiple Atlantis cities. The only realistic outcome of this battle, would have been the total annihilation of the earth/traveller/wraith fleet within a minute.
imagine installing Asgard beam weapons on the O-Neil class battle ships mark lX nukes with ancient drone weapons. also incorporating ZMPs to help the Asgards iron neutrino Naquadriah generators with the O-Neils highly advanced hyperdrive and constructing an entire fleet in both the Milky way and Pegasus galaxy would be a force to be reckoned with.
True, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
They would have been too busy with the myriad hull fractures and severed power couplings to have gotten any of the ships working before the planet explodes. Remember that the Replicators didn't teleport to the surface. They were _ripped through their ships_ by the attraction force.
This is one of my favorite battles in the franchise, but one thing bothers me. Why didn't the replicator Aurora-class ships use their drones to wipe the enemy fleet out in one blow? They clearly had drones, the even used them against the Traveler Aurora ship... the only ship that had a working drone defense (countering drones with drones).
It could be that they were trying to focus most of their fire on the wraith hives because they're big and scary ships after all; and also, the whole attack was completely be surprise, so the replicators might not have been that prepared.
It tv and plot development can't kill off main characters lol, and I Know what you mean too , the puddle jumper could take out a hive fleet , it has 12 drones to use it takes 8 drones to destroy a hive ship and 3 for a cruiser but if you have a tactical nuke under the jumper and go cloak and drop the nuke in hive bay hanger and leave and shoot 9 drones for the 3 cruisers that are with a hive ship and let nuke go off and escape rinse and repeat the Atlantis could take out the wraith lol
It took me years to realize that the only reason that Todd was able to recruit the hives, and why he needed to stun the Atlantis team during the negotiations, was that he laid out the plan to recover ZPMs from Asuras and to restart the cloning facility to the other wraith. He couldn’t have the Atlantis team know about his plan.
Would've been smart of the Atlantis mission to have a few teams on standby to beam over and take some of the Aurora class ships when the replicators had been sucked down to the planet. As well as grabbing a couple ZPM's on the way back.
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
This was A great episode one of the best sg battles. However we all know that in reality they would never have any change against that number of aurora battle cruisers. They would all launch drone weapons and also from the ground and the battle would be over under one minute.
Did anyone during that battle ever try to go down and steal some ZPMs other than the wraith it would been really helpful to the tau'ri or travellers if they got their hands on some
panupong plienkeaw I always felt like that the other two had such a central focus on beating the common enemy that the thought of stealing ZPMs didn't even cross their mind. Then again, that sounds like a convenient excuse.
I was thinking that would be a good idea to at least attempt. But you're kinda on the replicator home world surrounded by millions(?) of them. Maybe if they SG-1 anti-replicator guns they could have.
Stargate became so damn epic. I hated the Original series at first, felt cheap, but it's worth sitting through those first few seasons to watch humans slowly become a space dwelling influence. This battle was my fav, as it required cooperation between otherwise hostile adversaries. The replicators scared the shit out of me too!
Spacedock would you be able to do the battle of Arcadia from the halo universe? I think it's a very interesting battle, and it also includes the keys maneuver which would be awesome to see on you channel?
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
The Wraith made a mistake by not returning to the rendezvous point with the rest of the fleet. Initially, Todd told them that he could get 12 hive ships. However, he only brought 7. The other 5 should have been waiting at the rendezvous point to attack the Earth and Traveler ships. Even though the remaining 6 hives from the battle were damaged, they still could have 11 hive ships could have soundly defeated the two Earth Cruisers. All they needed to do was disable the engines first.
Fran: "Hello". Haha, cute Replicator girl go brrrrrrrrrr. Also, more ships exiting hyperspace into immediate point blank broadside please. It's cool af. There's one scene in a later episode where the Daedalus comea out of hyperspace and drops about ten nukes onto a hive ship in the same second. That was a great scene too.
U forgot the important parts of the aftermath of the battle: the Wraith captured several ZPM's as well as information on the Midway station (which led to its destruction) as well as the creation of the ZPM powered Hive ship
While I love Stargate, I love Supreme Commander more. Damn man, I could pick out that music within the first few seconds of it playing! I'll even guess that it is..... "Risk, Relief, and Victory?" Great choice, made the video even better! Now.....when are you gonna do a SupCom video? :P
And why they didn't try and take some of those now empty Ancient vessels we'll never know. They knew the plan and know the ships operating systems, with the Asgard beaming tech they could have escaped quickly if the ships were protected by some sort of PIN/fingerprint/iris scanner.
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
I never understood why they didn't send teams into the asuran ships and jump out of the area after the replicators were socked out of the ships. It is the same with grabbing some zpms.
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
I find it hard to believe that 2 dozen Asuran battleships equipped with a ZPM couldn't take on 7 hive ships and a handful of other crappy ships. Their shields could hold on for a long time and they had drone weapons + the plasma guns.
Actually the Apollo uses USS designation not USAF. If you look at Col. Ellis' ship patch you see this. I still don't know why the Atlantis team didnt beam over to some of the replicators ships. They couldn't have knocked out all the hyperdrives during the battle. And as soon as the replicator cells started to streak towards the planet they had time to grab some ships.
Tbh if you think about it, it kinda sucks to see all those abandoned ships at the end of the battle just to be destroyed by the explosion. Could’ve been put to good use if Atlantis acquired some😂
Exactly the point but plot development 🤦, they could of beamed a team of people on all 30 or so aurora battle cruiser and earth would be very powerful and maybe beam a few dozen guys on the surface to steal some zpm cores and more puddle jumpers to take with us if they did that earth would have the firepower to expand and colonize planets and can defend each one with a Aurora ship or a few jumpers each lol
So I've always wondered....why didn't they just take a bunch of the ZPMs from the surface before they sabotaged the rest? All those ZPMs would have helped.....though they may have explained why they didn't at some point (I've not watched Atlantis in forever....)
The secondary objective of the battle was to prevent any Replicators from escaping the Asuran system before total destruction. Blowing up the local sun would have given the ships enough time to jump out in time, allowing them to restart their civilization somewhere else.
