Starter Motor Powered Bike 

This is a valuable lesson on the difference between continuous duty and intermittent duty motors.

Suggestion for you next project: modify a LG washer machine's motor to run an e-bike. I saw that these motors are 3ph. I wonder if the large radius could delivery more torque.

In the early 2000's I owned a company called ScooterFaster. One of the projects we built used an aircraft starter. On the plane the motor would spin a flywheel to an obsurd speed and the flywheel would be clutched to turn the motor using its inertia. We thought this might work well because it was small (1/3 the size of the Delco) and given enough time it would reach crazy RPM and was built to do that without the armature exploding. Long story short, it was great for drag racing, but you can only put out 400Amps for so long. I still have lots of brushed PM 800 W motors which we used 2 of on our most popular stunt scooter. KILLER WHEELIES until the brush holders caught fire. Your controller is an awesome beast, but better suited for a go kart than a bike. If you were in AZ I could hook you up with some motors to amaze your friends with (until you play too hard and they catch on fire.) Thanks for reading.

Excellent video. Short comment: Yep. Starter motors are designed for massive current for maximum torque at very short intervals. At 100k vehicle miles it's made to crank a gas motor under freezing temp conditions, etc. Excellent work on the bike. No halfassery. Gorgeous lathe work, etc.

i think it would be a good idea to try eaven higher gearing that you have tried , as the starter motor can hit preety high RPM itself , that would further lower the current draw

Try to remove your starter motor windings and wire new one from thinner wire with more turns on each pole. It should increase voltage rating of the motor and lower the current boosting the efficiency slightly ;)

I love re-purposing every day items to do other things. And, nice testing and engineering modification, Austin! Thanks for doing needed testing and documentation so others don't have to go down the same path and waste their time! Bless you, Sir!

Its a well done project. Starter motors do tend to overheat if used to long. But the possibility of small water colling system would be epic if you ever re visit the idea.

Can't say I'm surprised by the results, though what did surprise me is how many amps these motors draw

Whoa those battery cells are pretty cool! You should cook some bacon on the motor next time.

Oh, I could have answered this decades ago. A neighbor had a homemade bike powered by a starter motor back in 1982. It wasn't hugely fast but it certainly flattened every hill.

Thanks for the Edutainment and I thoroughly enjoyed it! ❤

Thank you for testing a starter motor on a bicycle. I have often wondered if it could be used in this way.

Always fun to watch.

I am just now watching one of your older videos and realising that you are nearby. I live in Vineland. Great channel!

This was a good video. I love those red cells

Thanks for the upload! Damn, I was hoping this would work well and be a potentially cheaper option, since starter motors are mass produced.

My first thought was the starter motors I started on fire on an old car when I was a kid. I would modify the end plate to a cage with a fan and see how that does.

The moment you said "14AH battery only lasted 10 minutes" I LOL'd hard. Your eventual conclusion about the ABSURD inefficiency of that motor was right there in that test. A 14ah battery should be provide a LOT more than 10 minutes or riding!

1:47 DAMN BOIIII THEM WINDINGS THICCCCC

awesome project! Id add a fan to the back of the shaft with more holes to draw air through.

you could add a fan to the motor shaft to get it cooler

If you used a separate power supply or PWM controller for the field coils, you could strengthen the field at low speeds to increase torque and weaken it at high speeds to increase top speed. I'm sure if you increased field current like in the 9 minute mark you would not be able to hold the bike in place. Too little field current compared to armature current causing low torque, basically just shorting out the armature.

Great clear explanation and video!

Great job. I love how neat your work is. 👍

I really enjoyed your video! I've been a mechanic for 32 years. Your week link is the motor itself. VERY Inefficient brushed motor intended to work for 10 seconds at most. But really well built! Try using hobby motors. I put a Trungy 6374 on my skateboard. It'll pull up to 5000 wats! At 1700 wats (that's what I'm currently running) it'll do 25 mph with enough torque to tow a car. Top speed is voltage limited so I don't die. It is a skateboard after all... And the motor was $80.

Great to see you building new projects

Perhaps attach a fan inside of the motor housing on the shaft? I have a large pool motor and it has a fan to keep it cool since it runs 24/7.

Use a copper housing and add fins you can also try liquid cooling if you add fins or possibly an AIO style cooler with a radiator and fans

add a fan (repurpose old pc fan blades) before tail stock bearing (cut large exhaust ports) to pull air across the windings

I was just about to write "do an alternator powered bike!", but I see you've beat me to it!

Real trooper on the starter motor. Detroit knows what its doing.

I've been saving the motor from an old treadmill for something like this. It's DC, and 120V.... It's intended for more run time than a starter motor.

Hey. Nice to see you again. Pretty cool idea.

Great Job Austin. Your alternator mod (old rusty) inpired me to do the same in my country and I love my new e-bike, BUT, as seen at your starter motors mod, I always wonder how many Km could I travel with the same battery with a regular BLDC e-bike motor.

when a child crys through being happy, it can distroy any man... well done girl ❤

I would also add a ring of radial fins to the external surface of the motor to take advantage of the external air flow to cool the motor.

Fantastic work, Austin! Really well done! 😃 Looking forward to see what you make next! Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊

I was thinking it wouldn't last long they aint made for extended use. But the then u modified it. Good job

I like how you used a small block Chevy starter motor, probably the most common American starter in history. One of the only differences from the Buick Pontiac Oldsmobile, is the entry hole to the gear is on the other side of the starter, but many of the GM starters were the same, non gear reduction units

Wiley Coyote dynamites up his bike. Is that an electric hotplate on the rat trap? Interesting build. your machining skills are top drawer.

Try using a Super Capacitor bank to start the motor then switch to battery power for continuous use. The Super cap can also provide a boost for up hill load.

The ones with permanent magnet are more compact and have loads of power too, but you still run the same issue of heat, I’ve played with one in the past and not worth to continue with it as the windings aren’t made for constant use and the amp draw is insane high no nope, I had fun for a bit anyway …

great work chap

Try using a bigger rear sprocket so that the motor spins faster which in turn will allow the motor to generate a higher Counter EMF to reduce overall amp draw and heat.

I would have taken a permanent magnet starter motor. Added some cooling to it...with a CNC machine you could easily cut out for example 2cm thick half circle aluminium profiles. In fact it could be done with with laser or water cutting too :)

Amazing man

I would fix a fan disc with many twisted fan blades on the shaft to draw in air from one end of the motor and blow the air out through the opposite end, thereby creating forced air cooling.

I thought great I can build my own with a starter motor.... My dreams were shattered when I saw you need homemade end plates with a Lathe 😂😂😂😂

Starters are designed to be intermittent motors due to their 4 field coil and 4 brush design which gives very high torque for starting an engine. However, when such a motor is used continuously, it will heat up very quickly and smoke is usually not far away.

I saw one used for a boat winch. It was only on about 10 or 20 seconds max but it worked well.

nice expriment ;) i love it man ❤❤

I have been watching your videos for a while and I have wondered if you use the bicycle's sprockets front and rear on a starter motor (doesn't always need to be a starter motor) like that and go through all the gears just like a normal bicycle what would be the top speed or If you use a bigger gear than the driven gear what would be the performance/top speed Please keep posting the good work and entertainment you are an absolute legend !!!!!

Great video! I've always wanted to try these powerful 3 phase brushless motors used on some modern vehicles radiator cooling fans, for a bike. I forgot which vehicles used them, but they are low profile, brushless, and very powerful.

This was a great experiment.

See if you can drill a tapped pocket hole on the outside end of the motor shaft and fasten a substancial metal fan tight to it so it has good thermal connection and can vent the shaft heat.

Adding some aluminum heatsink will help out a lot.. some even come with little fans 😎

You made a great video! I have afeeling that you proved something that you already knew! Anyway this is the point of experimenting!

Around 20 Years ago , I had a Trike.. It was made by a homeless guy. Who Was Pretty Smart! Motor Cycle Front Wheel , Car Rear Wheels. It had a Dump Bed. And ALSO Peddles ! He has a VW diesel Car Starter that he modified He has the Ring Gear of from the car mounted Directly to the rear axle. One car Battery 75AH would only give around 3- 4KM of Distance. (No Speed Controller) Everyone said , Brushes would not last , Would over heat.. But never did! Push the Starter Button and "HOLD ON!!" But was only used when he hit large hills and could not peddle up them. Took me years and Years of Seeing him and talking to him to buy it from him , than he moved into a friends house down my dads street He had it sitting at the time for a few years without using it. Brought it from him , Fixed it up a little and made a Few hundred bucks selling it. Kinda wish i had RU-vid at the time to make Videos about it as it was a REALLY cool Setup!

BatteryHookup sells the BMS too! And they aren't that expensive!

It makes me appreciate my 10 amp hr lectric 3.0. Its cadence set points with throttle works quite well. At least as far as i can tell. I love your idea and skills. Its beyound my capabilities but i found it quite intresting. I like peddling and it helps with the over all millage per watt i guess you might say. I have a 48 watt system that is 54 watts fully charged. It takes about 1.7 hours to get to halfway through the battery which most likely over half. I thought you might care about those detail but mabe not. Its ok either way. Great video

Really enjoy watching your videos, it's just a shame there's not more.

5:18 well that's to be expected. Starter motors are extremely powerful but aren't meant for continuous running. That's why it gets so hot. I suggest you get an alternator or a dynamo and turn it into a motor. They are more preferable option, also because other people have done it before.

I thought that was you biking by my house the other day 😂

So, you basically remade the whole thing. Is it still a starter motor by the end of the video or just a rotor with everything else re-made?

You need to use an electric motor designed for constant duty, and use a brushless motor will offer better efficiency over a brushed motor like the started, (Which is NOT designed for constant duty).

Very cool video. It seems you're working well outside the normal use case for a starter motor, so it's good you gave up. Someone else suggested a low kV rc motor. Not sure if you have to use lipo cells for that, but be careful when using those!

If you add cooling fins around the motor, it’ll help dissipate the heat faster. Or even try copper water cooling coils.

2:58 did you edit in a torque wrench clicking here? lmao

I would add antifreeze cooling, antifreeze bc it has additives so the motor wont rust from inside. Maybe an automatic transmission rad(not sure if its enough) and a heat capable pump. idk how u would find a 36v one tho. id go with 12v pump and buck converter. Im actually planning a similar project. i got an old cadillac starter that has bad bushings and solenoid. Im a DIY guy, so i have many other EV projects, there's a timelapse vid abt my armchair :D Great video tho!

Get rid of the stator windings and add Neodymium magnets. Keep that 4:3 magnet:coil ratio, beef up the brushes.

Thank you for the cool video.

What an amazing video! I'm from Brazil

So cool finally someone did that project, i was always thinking about doing this but didn't know about the worthiness and outcome. - so basically you overvolted the motor by 24volt? Great video, thx!

There's a certai UnderDunn who needs help with your expertise. Awesome idea!

Subbed after seeing less than a minute of video!

Amazing work!

As you have gone this far with this motor, it may be an idea to use this as a starting/boost motor for hills only and try to fit a second motor for cruise. That way you you can have motors that are efficient for the current riding condition.

My father did this over 50 years ago with a car starter motor on a low-slung 20" wheels "banana-seat" bike. He implemented it with front-wheel drive, mounting the starter motor right over the front wheel, and put a car lead-acid storage battery where the bike seat was, turning the battery cover into the seat, so you're sitting over the battery. I don't know whether he replaced the bushings with bearings, and he did not drill holes etc. to facilitate cooling. He rode it down the street and back about 1 mile total, and then turned to go up a steep hill. Going up the hill, white smoke poured out of the starter motor killing it and with that he dropped the project. If this starter motor is 1400 W that's not even quite 2HP, so there are better options for a bike. This would give advantage where you need high-torque in a small space for a short period of time, which doesn't really fit the typical bike use case. One example with bike might be to have this configured for front-wheel drive on a mountain bike with a conventional bike motor driving the rear wheel. This would be used only for cases such as when you are climbing a short, steep grade during off-roading or trying to get through mud. The punchy torque and front-wheel drive traction advantage may help in a case like this; in addition, it may be useful for front-wheel regenerative braking.

Great video. That starter motor is toast. You should try a 3 phase brushless motor next.

I was today years old when I realized this was not a Tom Stanton video.

You know you can use am alternator as a motor also right? Those already have bearings too...and well ventilated

Alright, hear me out: Spring-assisted jump booster with a custom quad-copter shoulder-mounted backpack design that uses altered drone software to assist with air control. Boom. Human grasshopper.

you should definetly add a fan to the motor shaft to force air over the coils. Looking at those field coils , those things look bonkers (large flat slabs of copper). Maybe you could replace those with Neodynium Magnets to increase efficency.

very nice sir , i think the motor was overheating due being used at higher voltages , you can use an electric 12 volt fan to solve the heating problem

Always gotta bring up the AGNI/Lynch/Briggs and Stratton eTek motors. They are my absolute favorite and amazing for projects requiring 1-50hp, here is some more information: The Lynch motor is an unconventional design with a disc armature. It marries the advantages of a conventional, wound armature motor with the benefits of a flat (printed circuit) motor. It is similar to a pancake motor, but is more powerful than any of these technologies. The disc armature has magnets on both sides, doubling the available flux density and shortening the magnetic path. It therefore packs more power per pound and per cubic inch than any other motor technology. Of course such a revolutionary motor is not for every application - it is not as cheap as wound field motors, but for many applications it is a far superior motor. It has a previously unheard of power to weight ratio and also power to volume ratio. It is also highly efficient because of the double magnet design and associated short magnetic path. It also includes integral fan cooling. The Lynch motor is an important development which spurred other motor designers to improve their products to remain competitive, such as synchronus permanent magnet machines. As a result of the competition between manufacturers the cost of high performance motors and controllers has fallen dramatically. We hope the cost of solar cells also reduces to allow renewable transportation to develop as a viable alternative to carbon fuels. Cedric Lynch built his electric bike around a mid-drive configuration, also building one of the worlds most efficient light weight electric motors to power his rig reliably at 60-MPH for significant distances. He would later set several world records with his axial flux motor and bring it to market as the Lynch / Agni motor. Briggs and Stratton would eventually buy this technology which would lead to the Etek motor, which is now famous for making high speed efficient electric hot rods. Cedric uses to achieve high speeds is by following the rules of aerodynamics, and building a bike that is as aerodynamic and as efficient as possible. The other builders on this list bypassed this step, and Cedric uses this bicycle as daily transportation on real commutes. Although this high-efficiency motor uses “old school” brushes, this fact allows builders to use very affordable controllers. He has proven his design choices through thousands of miles of commuting, and the Lynch motor is highly respected. Cedric Lynch is known as the creator of the Agni Motor, a highly efficient electric motor that weighs around 25 pounds and can put out as much as 50hp. Cedric Lynch is a British 'mad scientist' type mechanical engineer obsessed with the idea of greener transportation. His interest has been in building a super efficient yet powerful vehicle that can serve as a car replacement. He started thinking of his own design for an electric motor in 1983 when he began entering competitions organized by the Battery Vehicle Society regarding building an efficient electric vehicle. At the time there was no reasonably priced DC motor with descent efficiency so Lynch decided to build his own utilizing modifying existing motors with old tin cans that he would spread out flat to use as cooling fins. Surprisingly using rudimentary materials and a garage work bench, Cedric was making better more efficient electric motors than any of the universities were able to manufacture in state of the art workshops. Cedric then came up with a motor design that could be cheaply manufactured and began manufacturing his own motor that he could sell to the public in 1988 and the Lynch Electric Motor Company was born, known as LEMCO. Cedric first used his motor to create a small boat called “The Spark” that would set an electric boat efficiency record. From there Cedric turned his attention to bicycles, an application generally considered too small for a lynch motor at that time. Cedric mounted his motor in recumbent bike, allowing him space to eventually use a set of thundersky lithium batteries. The resulting aerodynamic recumbent bike had a top speed of 60mph and still managed an incredible range of 150 miles. Cedric rode his recumbent creation everywhere as a daily commuter, putting an amazing 50,000 miles on the machine - technically a motorbike. Briggs and Stratton, the US firm famous for lawn mower engines, bought the technology and used it in their E-Tech Motor, and Cedric went on to manufacture his latest incarnation of his lynch design into the Agni motor, which is used in go karts, sailboats, motor boats, and even small airplanes. The Lynch designed motors all have the same traits. Brushed motors, around 25 pounds in weight and they are able to put out enormous power compared to their weight. Sometimes as high as 50 hp (depending on amperage ran through the motor) at an incredible 98% efficiency. Lynch Motors are also the most often used motors in electric motorcycle racing applications. Cedric's zero-emission motorcycle, which has a top speed of 120mph, was shown in action winning the world’s first zero carbon race - the TTxGP in the Isle of Mann. The idea for the electric motor has been snapped up by the 56-year-old’’s friend Arvind Rabadia, who together with his brother Hasmuk Rabadia had been thinking of starting a business in India. They have now set up Agni Motors to make further-improved versions of Cedric’s motors Despite Cedric’s breakthrough invention he has no formal engineering qualifications and taught himself the techniques needed to construct his engine. He first became interested in electrics when his parents bought him a book entitled How to build things from things found at home. The Etek motor is a brushed 25-pound pancake shaped motor that puts out enormous power for its weight. Depending on amperage and voltage the Etek can easily provide between 15-horsepower and 30-horsepower reliably and consistently (11-kW / 22-kW). A perfect platform for a powerful electric bike if you do not mind the weight. Although brushless motors are considered more modern, a brushed motor like the Etek allows the builder to use very affordable controllers. Cedric-Lynch invented the motor and sold it to Briggs and Stratton which US company produced the Etek at a lower price (around $600). In the late 90’s early 2000’s it was the way to go for a high-power / light-weight electric vehicle. Many small E-vehicle records were set using the Etek motor. Finally, the market had a relatively lightweight and powerful electric motor available to the masses. In essence, the Etek allowed hot rodders to build electric bikes. Before the Etek very few people had ever achieved 50mph on an electric bike. Even today, Etek motors (and newer incarnations of the Etek motor) are used to make some super fast electric bikes. In the case of Liveforphysics, the fastest E-bikes ever. Liveforphysics used a newer version of the Etek (the Agni motor), to achieve speeds of over 70mph, and dominate a recent hill-climb event. Every Etek I have ever ridden has been characterized by brutal off-the-line acceleration, usually to a point where you have to apply the throttle very carefully or get thrown off. However, it is possible to run an Etek at a lower voltage or lower amperage and have a very manageable, safe, and sane electric bike that will not burn out on you, no matter high steep the incline.

Try finding a starter/generator that they use on old Kohler mower engines. Maybe try a box or square type electronics cooling fan and make a air scoop that funnels the air directly over the motor housing for more efficient cooling.

Very awesome idea, years ago a guy uploaded a video to YT of a go cart powered by a 24v diesel engine starter-thing was ridonkulous fast

Great video

I would assume this wouldn't work well. Starter motors are designed for high torque and fixed low rpm. They aren't designed for continuous use either. So I see overheating issues and speed issues. The dynamic speed range might be very small. Edit: The video is a very cool engineering project nonetheless. I would add a fan to force airflow over the individual motor winding in the rotor. The air could escape through the holes and cool it pretty efficiently

Conversion well done. It gets too hot bc the rotor coil windings are just thick wire typical for a starter. Just... swaping the windings or rotor and we are good to go. ;-)

You could mount a computer fan, it may help on dissipating the heat a little bit for cheap, PC fans use low energy and are almost silent.

golf carts can have some pretty beefy starter generator motors that can take a beating

Maybe just a small fan attached to the shaft to blow air through the housing, it seems *almost* there cooling wise. Tbh, duty cycle is gonna be short enough that just adding thermal mass might be the way to go, a water jacket or something

I thought this was a really good try and I was rooting for you, but unfortunately the setup needs more work. Remember starter motors are only intended for short duration use to get a car engine cranking over as you described. In order to do so, starter motors need a lot of power hence a very large amp draw. The Headway cells are a good way of delivering instant amp draw since it can deliver 200A from a single cell, but you will need many more cells for continued use or else you'll keep on depleting the cells since you're drawing up so much current from cells that only have so much capacity. Maybe consider a hybrid system with LiPO and Li-Ion batteries where the Headway cells can help with the instant amp draw, and 18650 cells can handle most of the constant power being delivered. In this case you'd need a number of cells that are at least 3000mAh or above. As for the motor if you're still going to use a starter motor, I still think it doesn't have enough ventilation. The housing is acting like an oven when you have the motor spinning. I'd make as many holes possible with a set of holes facing the against the wind direction perpendicularly so you have forced air going directly into the motor and actively cooling it off rather than passive cooling of letting out heat.

شرح وافى شكراا good info thanks

Nice build. But it looks like you added about 100 lbs to the bike. Try using lighter mounts for motor and battery to save weight

I think the field coils are overheating AND consuming a large portion of the power. The modification I would make is to install permanent magnets. This would probably solve the overheating problem as well as increase efficiency.

Wow I had a dream to build a go kart with a starter motor when I was young. Thank you for making this vid. Even though it didn’t work as well as I hoped it was still a very interesting experiment indeed 👍I wonder how brushless rc car motors would work ? Mabe multiple motors or run through a gearbox of some kind ?

I used one in a diy pahse convertor to spin up a 25hp 3phase motor to eliminate the need for the start capacitor bank. It worked well for a while but the speeds required needed a bit higher voltage. It smoked eventually. I use a different type of system now.