Stephen A.: MJ gets too much blame for Isiah Thomas' Dream Team snub | First Take 

They are saying overall career wise tho lol. Stockton and isiah is pretty close

You didn't watch the pistons just like max

Jordan gets alot of blame because the first book written about the incident says that Jordan stated that if Isiah is on the team he wasn't playing. That doesn't mean others didn't have issues with him. Also if I was Max I would be like it's cool for y'all to disagree with my opinion but the disrespect needs to stop. Because Stephen A spent time as a journalist covering basketball doesn't make what he has to saw about the sport law.

diggy dub go look at the stat sheets in 92 idiot

Agree

Lmao too true

😂

you don't have things to talk about because corona so who cares

And lets wait for next week's episode 5 and 6 for more dramas 😁

It's the trending topic now. It's fortunate even because the younger generation who haven't experienced old-school bb would learn about the environment inside and outside the court.

Movie matics he tryna make it racial Thts why

Max 100% incorrect.

Agreed.

Max is really on point. I would pick Stockton over Isiah considering there is Malone in the team. Malone is not Malone without Stockton. They are the best real duo ever (i don't consider Jordan and Pippen a duo, they are more like Master and Student on the first 3 peat and Superman and Batman on the 2nd 3 peat, thus they can stand on each own, more like a 1-2 punch). I would put college Shaquille O'neal though before Laettner and Isiah.

I don't think you saw Isaiah playing, it ain't even close Isaiah was better.

LMAO!!! great analogy

Except Max is wrong . Ironically Jordan , Magic and Reggie Miller all have said Isaiah was way better .

It's because Stockton looks like an accountant.

Because he wasn't

2 time champ and finals MVP vs 0 rings. Nobody’s about to rank you high because you put up stats in the regular season. James Harden the GOAT if that’s what we doing 🤦🏾‍♂️

@@jamiethomas5849 poor guy went against Jordan in the finals

@@jamiethomas5849 yeah but James Harden stats aren't better than Mj,LBj,Wilt,Curr I can go on lmaoo

TheBLACKSTARmovement seriously! Stockton is very understated

Dude didnt get a ring n they act like dude couldn't play gtfoh top 50 player of all time

Stockton was a baller GTFO Steven A...

@theblackstarmovement hes white he will never get respect.

You misspelled correct with a "terrible" in it

OH MY GOD PLEAAAAAAAASE REMOVE JAY WILLIAMS

Yeah i notice he's showing too much emotions im not even sure if its real or using it to his advantage.

Yeah JWil cannot debate to save his life

😩🤣😂😭🤣😁

Y’all want molly again?

Not at that time 90-91?

Jussst to be safe, let's say Top 5😀. But this disrespect IS ridiculous.

Everyone thinks he’s Malone’s sidekick. Dude could have 15/5/15 and 6 steals one night and it would’ve just been another Stockton game. Much better shooter, defender and passer than Thomas. Thomas is overrated because of those rings, you can’t tell me a 60+ win team with prime Karl Malone and Stockton wouldn’t have smoked those pistons. Bill Lambeers skinny as was not gonna stop that boy Karl

Top 3 🥴🥴🥴 yeah I don’t think so

@@vincentestone5764 Agree. Magic, Stockton, Kidd IMO. Then comes Thomas, Nash Curry, etc.

At this point I don't think it's fake... More like a laughing disorder 😭

he is the new will cain, both obnoxious AF.

I cant stand jay y hes on the show

John Donboli LMAO

@@Ghost-sz7uo nah will Cain has better takes

Isaiah had underlying issues w everybody. Right or wrong, big names had issues. 3 guys above Isiah Jordan, Magic, Bird... All 3 had issues. Of course most other guys are not nor can they say anything about wanting Isiah on the team. The rest just wanted to be there. Scottie spoke out because Jordan elevated his status, Malone said something yrs later. But Robinson or Stockton, Mullins not gonna talk about Isiah Isiah reminds of that ex girlfriend or black sheep of the family that everybody is pissed at but pretends to not know why.

Undeserved personal issues?

nah man he was hurt... remember? dont believe the hype.

It's just a sad pure fact. His own coach couldn't tell those guys he's not a bad guy...

It was a business decision, from a business perspective. If Magic, Bird,Jordan, Malone and Pippen didn't want to play with Isaiah(which is 60% of the Dream Team) there wouldn't have been no chemistry within the team. 😏 Which would have been poor representation for the U.S

lol bc there's no games being played. welcome to recycled news

There's nothing else to talk about lol if they talk about current NBA ppl are also gonna complain how they recycle the same LeBron / Kawhi / Giannis arguments

its also any opportunity to rewrite history...say it a few times and it becomes fact.

ratings

@@vinothv tks to this, all jordan team mates are getting credit... jordan was a amazing, but that bulls team was amazing

Dywone Robinson thank you. so annoying

How can sit there and say that when Isiah was the only superstar player on the team. It was basically him and four guys that played defense extremely well..

assassin216 Isiah Thomas played with Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Mahorn, Bill Laimbeer etc... John Stockton and Malone had Greg Ostertag, Olden Polynice, Bryon Russell.

Ring less for a reason. Isiah beat Jordan, Stockton got bitched by Jordan

Len River on me this is crazy. They said not even in the same class?? Blasphemy

This is the Michael Jordan network these people do not know their NBA.

@@eldio2124 Stockton just didn't have a great team besides Malone. He's the all time leader in assists and steals for a reason.

@@eldio2124 you sound ridiculous

2 championships. Beat Jordan, Finals MVP. Thomas over Stockton all day. Every day.

Young Blood zeke 2 rings and finals mvp > Stockton

Yeah ok, even Stockton doesn't think he's better than Isiah Thomas.

@@peterwilliams3355 Its funny when it comes to that conversation, "rings" don't matter anymore 🤷‍♂️. Just proves, ppl only bring that up just to slight players they dont like.

@@fakephoenixprince Of course your supposed properly rank Isiah Thomas higher than Stockton because he won multiple championships. The criteria for ranking, since the beginning, has always been Statistics, Accolades, & Context. Every Top 50 player has that. Isiah has statistics topped off with 2 Rings. But if remove his championships, resume vs resume, Stockton in no way, shape or form pales in comparison to Isiah Thomas. He's actually better. Isiah Thomas is saved by his 2 rings, though he got them nonetheless. Better Career > Better Player.

Tony D. Like that’s so much disrespect fr😂

He’s a HOF and he holds the assist record and the steals record so how can y’all say he doesn’t deserve to be on the dream team? He was valid lol he wasn’t better than Isaiah one on one but overrall he’d hold his own against Isaiah don’t do stock like that

They only respect Larry Bird and Jerry West. Everybody else in their opinion is too white to be good.

Tony D. No you’re wrong. Zeke was battling and outplaying a print Magic Johnson, who’s the bigger and better version of Stockton. Stockton was great but he isn’t close to Zeke

​@@thrillwill5 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.

^^^^ this right here facts

TREE HOUSE thats far from being the only thing he did

Pat4Clippers dduuhh patrick beverly could be on the dream team of he played in 80s, yall got lucky that pat is playing today.

Pissing off MJ, Bird, and Magic wasn't Isiah's smartest decision.

Pat4Clippers correct!!!

Isiah had played in at least a dozen or more allstar games at this point with most of these guys before in All star games so it wasn't a matter of chemistry or ego..it was a matter of money and politics

@@vivianbutler5851nah you outta pocket here all star game is just an all star game. It isn’t as soft as it is now but it’s still just an all star game and you can’t even compare all star game vs the olympics

Exactly

It would be like picking the next Olympic team without Curry or Kyrie

@ Not like Curry at all. More like not picking Kyrie right after he bounced on lebron. curry is class and respectful

Jalen Davis Lool stop it. It was about selecting the best players, not who fit right.

Bro that definitely was an All-Star team😂

I'd rather have Isiah over Stockton any day of the week. Dude was the 2nd best PG of all time. Stockton was legit, but the one guy who probably didn't belong was Mullin. Mullin was a decent shot, but never really accomplished much and is a largely forgotten Hall guy.

Isiah has played in 13 AllStar games..with super star scorers..so the notion that he does't know when to be a pass first gaurd is inexcusable...Isiah..was the prototype to todays 2 way small gaurds yousee today..but he knew how to make other better, and learned later in his career how to reliquish some of the scoring to nhis teammates..isiah could easily put up 25- 30 points every game..but he doesn't becasue he knows when to play the point and when to play the 2

Stockton is highly underrated, very efficient. Better shooter than magic.

Ashwin Cheekala I agree to an extent but Isiah was averaging 20+p and I0+a and decided to lower it for the better of his team. This guy best Kareem, bird, magic and Jordan in the playoffs. 12th greatest of all time.

al farouq aminu for 3 way better shooter. Stockton is Nash with all nba defense and lebron durability(if nash had 95 shooting Stockton is like 85 shooting)

If Sloan thought Stockton could've carried them in the Finals I'm sure he would've called his number. How many times did Stockton beat an in prime Magic?

Megalodon Unlocked as respect to one of the greatest ever(he’s 4th imo) and magic himself said he wants bird to play basically forcing him.

All he does is making weird faces when he doesn't agree with others

He holds a lot of players jocks that play in the NBA today. Particularly KD and LeBron. He comes off as nothing but a bias apologist for those guys

Same. And he really thinks hes a good analyst too.

oh 💯 %.. Jay is such a whining old lady 👵.. his normal facial expressions looks like he’s gonna cry any second..

Xplicit1k 30 years ago lol

Thumbs down for em. They'll switch it up.

Xplicit1k They have literally nothing else to talk about it because there is no sports lol.

They got nothing else to talk about what are you expecting and it’s ESPN

U wanna hear about Lebron beating the 73 win warriors again

There actually not...based on the way they play and they're team responsibilities Stockton is the 2nd best pure point gaurd ever..magic is No.1 Isiah is 3rd but all around gaurd..its not even close Stockton is not in Isiahs league

Vivian Butler facts

Mark Swift playlist 1 Chicago bulls 2 Dallas cowboys 3 lebron James 4 Tom Brady on repeat mode

True. I mean they can talk about cricket or javelin throw. There are other sports that can possibly make more money than Last Dance.

Kevin Thompson this isn’t a good spot light he’s ode ode good at basketball he didn’t need recognition to confirm what the world already knows , the real problem is everyone loves Jordan basketball was in desperate need of someone like him so if Jordan says I don’t think he’s good for basketball I don’t want him in the dream team everyone is going to take Jordan’s side becuz he is basketball!

Something tells me Bird and Magic never considered trying to convince MJ that Isiah joining the Dream Team was a good idea.

What!!! He made Dream Team over a better player and top 50 and first ballot Hall of Fame. Overrated great white hope

@@mikekillagreen9432 Stockton led the league in assists 9 consecutive years at one point, 1992 being his 5th consecutive of those years. He also had significantly fewer turnovers per game, and more steals per game in their primes, or even career wise. Stockton led the league in steals twice, including 1992. Stockton scored less but shot a way higher %, and shot the 3 at a way higher % too. Even though Stockton played until he was 40, and Thomas only until he was 32, Stockton still shot 8% higher effective field goal % for his career, that's an enormous difference. In fact, he led the league in EFG % once and had 3 straight years of 60% EFG %. Thomas never even had one season of 50% shooting. Thomas led the league in assists once. That's 12 times that Stockton led the league in a major category (assists 9x, steals 2x, EFG % 1x), while Thomas led the league in a major stat 1 time. The only relevant category that Thomas beat Stockton in is points per game, and he did that averaging 7 more shots per game. In 1992 specifically, Thomas averaged 2.7 more points per game, but on a 7% lower effective field goal %, while Stockton was averaging 6.5 more assists per game (almost double the assits)! I'm not sure how anyone could look at two guys who played in the same era, with all the above being true, and dismiss Stockton as being comparable to Thomas.

Its not Stocktons fault either Stockton rightfully deserves his place among the greats and they should just let it go at that...he's no comparison to Isiah..they're games are not the same , there teams had different needs, thier skillsets are different..and Zeke has a better skill set by far. Stop comparing the 2 there's no comparison..its like comparing Kyre Irving to Chris Paul (except Isiah was truer to the point position than Kyre but could handle and score like Kyre..and CP3 has a handle Stockton could only dream of) They we're both truly great point gaurds who provided what they're team needed..but Stockton was not a franchise player Isiah..Utah was built around Malone not Stockton to take them to the promise land, Detroit was built around Isiah to take them to the promise land and he did...twice

Thats not the main point. Point is, Isiah Thomas is way too good to be left out. He definitely deserves a spot and they know they did him dirty.

You can say the SAME for John Stockton. I DIDN'T notice Him & He was ON The Squad. Put some RESPECT on ZEKE'S Name. He should have been ON The Team.

Vincent E Stone Facts! I really believe the theory that Magic had something to do with it.

@Marvin Banks Most of the players really didn't want him there and unless they were going to pick a whole other team without Jordan, Barkley, Malone, Bird and Magic Isiah wasn't playing. I wasn't mad at all that he was left off of the team.

he went back and 'RE-READ the book'....J Will...shut up.

Man I thought that back then but I think he had surgery but bird wasn't 💯 percent as well

Are you dumb

Your funny

Sir? Back in the day I'd argue with you to the end being the Bad Boys Pistons die-hard fan. But now in 2020?..... I have no problem with you choosing John Stockton. I prefer Isiah but Stock was & "still" is the all time assist leader. This man was supposed to be at least a 2 time champion.

Stockton has stats..Isiah has accolades...and stats do't tell the real story most stats are meaningless...Isiah has won championships at every level from HS, College and Pro..Stockton has never won big at any level..Stockton is a reliable steady great player..but his game is predictable and he never gets double teamed, because defenders know he's going to pass, siah gives defenders fits ask MJ (stats don't factor that in ) Also Stockton is rarely the guy to take the shot with 20 seconds on the clock ..90% Malone is the guy...and as great as Stockton was he did not have the xfactor that Isiah had ...the ability to single handedly takeover a game if necessary which Isiah has done on several occassions ..only a few players in NBA history have that ability Kobe, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Dwade, Shaq, Lebron, etc etc and do it consisitently...the stats don't record that

You don't know basketball

thats the point u dont get it...stockton an all time great....

Nobody has ever said Stockton wasn't an all time great...I think everybody acknowledges Stocktons greatness ...he's just no comparison to Isiah...and those stats are meaningless ..problem with stats is that they don't tell the real story of what goes on on the floor.While Isiah and Stockton may have the ball in there hands for equal periods of time Isiah is required to do more with it..at times Isiah has to be the team scorer Stockton never does..Isiah also penetrates far more often than Stockton, which means you'll get fouled more often and lose the ball more often when you get hit...whether the call is made or not. Isiah is expected to take more chances in big game situations than Stockton is ...with 20 second on the clock in a close game Utah is going to Malone not Stockton, Detroit is going to Isiah (he might score, he might get fouled, he might get stripped or blocked) Stats like plus/minus and win shares are meaningless...Detlef Schrempf, Dana Barros, Reggie Miller, and Stockton were all ahead of Hakeem in win shares in 1995. The year he won his second ring and was at worst...the second best player in the NBA(in reality...the best). Hakeem wasnt even top 10 in win shares -Brent Barry ended up having more win shares than Kidd in 2002. And that was in 02 when midseason Kidd likely would have been voted MVP. -Oh and also that year in 2002...Elton Brand had higher win shares oover Dirk, Shaq(3rd ring year) and KG

@@vivianbutler5851 youre part of the problem if stockton dont compare to isaah

Yeah

Magic and malone hasn't responded

His comments in agreement with what Rodman said about Bird also had something to do with it. Bottom line is THEY didn't want him on the team.

Any evidence that Jordan had something to do with it? Besides the media who repeated that lie for 30 years...?

True...it was about $$$$ and politics everybody knows Isiah was more deserving than Stockton, Mullins, Drexler and half the roster but ..NBA was reaching out to a global market..and MJ was there ticket..so if MJ doesn't want to play with Isiah..who's gonna sacrifice those $$$$

hpc Ghost they played in the allstar game every year jordan played in the 80s so he could of made it work

Jimmy Crackcorn it’s documented that he never said that

MJ doesn't need protection. The only player who is protected by the media for his BS is LBJ.

Tangara Speedgoda bro nobody did talk about lebron absolutely NOBODY 🤦🏾‍♂️. And yes Stephen A protect jordan that’s very clear dude

yvana, Ha lol spoken like a true blind witness young dummy. Now go back to paying homage to your faux king the phony goat.

Tangara Speedgoda why invole lebron?

Thats not that crazy of a pick

zach rizzo Clippers Blake me to🤦🏿‍♂️🤣

@@rrichmond14 really its not...I'd take Blake over Melo

That's what happens when you don't finish your career with rings. Same thing happened to Barkley.

If you'd do that, then you don't know anything about basketball, or anything about the way Isaiah Thomas played the game...smh

Albert Elazar sorry for having a different opinion, since you are so educated about the game of basketball please explain to the congregation on why my choice is wrong?

Isaiah was better than Stockton in almost every basketball category you can think of! He was a much better scorer, shooter, and leader, he was also a great passer, and a 2 time champion on top of that The only thing that Stockton has over Isaiah, is he had a lot more career assists, and steals over him, that's it. Stockton was a great player don't get me wrong, BUT HE'S NO ISAIH, NOT EVEN CLOSE!

Albert Elazar Games played *Stockton = 1504 *Thomas = 979 PTS *Stockton = 13.1 *Thomas = 19.2 FGM/FGA/% *Stockton = 4.7/9.1/.510 *Thomas = 7.3/16.2/.452 3PM/3PA/% *Stockton = 0.6/1.5/.384 *Thomas = 0.4/1.4/.290 2PM/2PA/% *Stockton = 4.1/7.6/.541 *Thomas = 6.9/14.8/.468 eFG% *Stockton = .546 *Thomas = .465 FTM/FTA/FT% *Stockton = 3.2/3.9/.826 *Thomas = 4.1/5.4/.759 ORB/DRB/TRB *Stockton = 0.6/2.1/2.7 *Thomas = 1.0/2.6/3.6 AST/TOV *Stockton = 10.5/2.8 *Thomas = 9.3/3.8 STL/BLK *Stockton = 2.2/0.2 *Thomas = 1.9/0.3 Achievements *Stockton -10x All Star -2x steals champ -6x All defense team -9x AST Champ -11x All NBA 1992-93 ASG MVP *Thomas -12x All Star -2x NBA Champ -1981 -82 all rookie -1989-99 finals MVP -1x AST Champ -5x All NBA -2x AS MVP Reading these stats Stockton is a more complete player. Stockton is the better shooter. Leadership is debatable. The only thing Thomas has over Stockton is 2 rings (which is huge, I guess we can thank the GOAT for that). But I rest my case, I’d still pick Stockton over Thomas. Hate to see what the advance stats comparison would be between these two.

Because you don't like Isiah and don't know basketball

Mike Killagreen 100% and he must love losing too!

@@TommyGibbs1 Amen

Put that crack pipe down son.

JTrillZ BooFed he never ever said this.

james thomas mj is a little girl... who kept driving down on the pistons even tho they had a “Jordan rule” that was basically designed to injure Michael Jordan. And he got up and did it again. Ok. If anyone was trying to end my career like that I wouldn’t have wanted them anywhere near me. You’re probably 13 tho so no need to argue with you

JTrillZ BooFed also it was magic who didn’t want him in the team. But what do you know? Nothing

Dont matter, he still deserves a spot

Another false narrative...they don't hate each other they respect each otherJordan respects isiah as the 2nd best point gaurd next to Magic thats big respect ..and Isiah respects Jordan and has said it on numerous occassions..he just doesn't think Jordan is God because he's beaten him 36 -29 in head to head competition. Now Isiah and Scottie thats a different story..they hate each other

I have never heard anyone in that era confuse them. Magic was already established as Magic before Jordan entered the league. If you were talking BB MJ was always Jordan Michael Jackson was widely known as MJ too but the context always made it clear.