Stereo "Daisy" chain of amplifiers (using QSC PLX amps) 

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you for your comment.

Excellent!

Thank you! 😃

Thank you!

Welcome!

+jose lopez Thanks for the comment. Most of the time, we use the power provided by the facility. The amplifiers now a days are more efficient than they were 20 years ago, so we don't need to use anything too special for power. However, for outdoor events in fields (or at sites with no power) we'll use a 50kw Diesel generator with a power distro.

Jose Lopez, it might help to add a power conditioner, I have one furman cn2400s, I had plugged 3 qsc amps using them at full power two at 4 ohms 1200 watts and one at 2 ohms 1700 watts. Just make sure to connect to a electrical 20 amps outlet. The rest of the equipment is plugged to another furman m8lx, and connected to a regular electrical 15 amps outlet.

You can use the main outputs (either L or R) of the analog mixer to send the full-range signal to the crossover input. There's no crossover low-input... only a full-range input. Use the "Low" output on the crossover to send the signal to the amplifier.

Thank you for the comment.

We do not use power conditioning for amplifiers. It is usually not advisable to connect amplifiers to power conditioners. This is due to the current-draw amplifiers need to produce loud bursts of audio along with moments of sustained audio, and most power conditioners cannot provide that level of current. The voltage from wall receptacles is what amplifiers require. Noise in a system is usually caused from a ground loop, a short in a signal cable, cables laying on RF antennas, or the use of poor quality outboard; rarely it is ever an amplifier producing noise from EMI/RFI signals. It's recommended to place all non-amplifier equipment (BBE, DBX, etc...) on a power-conditioner, and keep the amplifiers connected directly to wall receptacles. Place your amplifiers on one circuit and your mixer/outboard on another circuit, and watch for ground loops.

Thanks that makes sense 🔊

Thanks ✌

@@stageleftaudio very welcome 👍

Yes, absolutely. I used TRS to XLR cables in the video to show that either TRS or XLR cables would work.

@@stageleftaudio Thanks a ton. I am able to daisy chain the 2 amplifiers now. Luckily they are the same brand as the ones shown on video but a different variant.

Thanks for the visit

The GX3 amps should have a phono input and XLR input on the rear for the channels. If they do, you can daisy chain in stereo by using either the phono or XLR connection (for that channel) as an output to the next amplifier's input.

Always keep the limiters on.

Thanks 🔥

Sounds like what you are looking for is a line splitter with dedicated isolated outputs. The basic models I've seen have one input with 2 x isolated outs and 2 direct outs. The isolated outputs are usually used for broadcast signals (TV, radio, etc...), whereas the direct outputs are used more for monitor sends. For isolated outputs, pros usually connect into a "house" provided system (i.e. a stadium), which provides all the isolated outputs that are needed for the event. They rarely carry gear to provide more than an few isolated outs... they rely on the facility/location to have the needed equipment. For sending the same signal to multiple amps (as in the video), daisy-chaining is the way its done. You can connect many, many amplifiers together to have them all produce the same signal. Some companies may use patch-bays to accomplish this. However, most daisy chain, because it's very inexpensive to setup.

There's no impedance issues with this type of setup

The knobs on amplifiers are not volume controls. They are signal attenuators. With the attenuators full clockwise rotation, this indicates the amp is very sensitive to the input signal from the console. With the attneuators full counter-clockwise, this indicates the the amp is much less sensitive to input signals. Just make sure your amplifier is not clipping when you run it. And, make sure your speakers are sized correctly for the size of the amplifier you are using.

Yes.

Yes, for 6 speakers, you could daisy-chain 3 amplifiers.

Yes. Each amplifier daisy chained would power its own speaker (s). This is how the same signal gets sent to multiple amplifiers/speakers at concerts.

Yes. It will work with any amplifier that has multiple inputs and outputs. Hook up the speakers like you normally would to each amp; there is no loss of signal. Remember... daisy chaining amplifiers is just sending the same signal to multiple amps. You are NOT combining power from the amplifiers. Each amplifier is still a stand-alone amp.

Yes. XLR to 1/4" is very common. Just make sure the 1/4" end is balanced.

Thank you for the feedback, have a blessed day 🙏

The two top units are QSC 4-channel amplifiers. We use these for monitors.

Yes it has! Thank you for your comment. Here's a video I did covering a non stereo setup of daisy-chaining. (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gOyjO5YOfdE.html) In this video, the amplifiers are setup for bridge-mono operation. The daisy chaining in the video is for a bridge-mono setup (using all QSC PLX amps). For your question, you will probably need to use a bridge-mono configuration on your Mackie amplifiers to get the power you are needing. The daisy-chain wiring for mono operation is sort of the same. The video (ref: above) shows the wiring. The Mackie manual should indicate which input to use for a bridge-mono setup; follow what the manual says. Then, daisy-chain your signal cables to the needed inputs to support the mono operation. For a stereo setup (ref: your question), you would NOT need to connect one speaker to the L channel (on amp #1) and the other to the R channel (on amp #2). They can be run from the L (on both amps), or from the R (on both amps); it's up to you, but best practices usually has the connections to the L side. For a bridge-mono speaker connection, follow what the Mackie manual says to do to setup the amp for bridge-mono operation. You will probably need to make (or reconfigure) speaker cables to support a bridge-mono setup. The speaker wiring has to be setup differently to support a bridge-mono connection. Most amplifiers will show the speaker wiring requirement needed on the back of the amp. If your amp uses the binding-posts, I think all you need to do is flip your speaker connector over (that goes into the amp). If this is the case, you would NOT need to make/modify any speaker cables. Hope this helps.

@@stageleftaudio , Thanks for the SUPER Fast response! Much appreciated! Thanks for the detail. Yes, the mono daisy setup is prob what I'll need to do, looking at the Mackie specs, to make sure I have adequate power so that I'm not clipping my sweet speakers. Btw, in another post you said we ought to consider running monitors from another source? Would I be ok adding a passive monitor or two with such a setup? Thanks again!

Mono works great. But make sure to watch the power usage! You don't want to burn any speakers. For your monitor question, are you asking about daisy-chaining another amp and passive speaker to be used as a monitor? If so, this would be an odd setup, but you could do it.

@@stageleftaudio , I guess what I don't know is can I also run a monitor or monitors off the same two amp setup. I imagine I can run them off the same 'A' channel as the mains. Yes, I'll be careful with the power. Thanks!

Yes, you can run monitors off the same two amp setup. However, both amps would need to be setup as stereo (FOH sound would be from a daisy-chained channel A on both amps, monitors would be from channel B on both amps, daisy-chained or independent channels). Doing it this way, you would not be able to run the amps in bridge-mono. If you need a bridge-mono setup on both amps for your FOH speakers, you may need to get another amplifier to handle just monitors.

Yes, this is the method of driving a large number of passive speakers with the same signal. The same method in this video (stereo daisy chaining) will work for bi-amping. For example, route the low frequencies to the Left channel and the mid/highs to the Right channel.

@@stageleftaudio perfect. Thanks again!

+kelvin kalaluka Yes. The active crossover is placed first in the signal chain. Therefore, the output from the crossover will go directly to the first amplifier in the amplifier chain. This results in all amplifiers producing the same signal. The number of speakers that can be attached to daisy-chained amplifiers is dependent on what the amplifier manufacture has indicated would be the maximum. Just because amplifiers are daisy-chained, does not alter the number of speakers that they can support. For example, the QSC amplifiers used in this video can support a 2-ohm load for each channel - this usually equates to having 4 x 8-ohm speakers per channel, or 2 x 4-ohm speakers per channel. Hope this helps.

+stageleftaudio Thank you a million times for the knowledge. so helpful

+Eric Traub Thanks for the comment. Very important... you cannot power a single speaker with more than one amplifier! DO NOT use more than one amplifier per speaker. Using more than one amplifier on a speaker could cause serious speaker and amplifier failure. Daisy chaining amplifiers only involves sending a signal to the amplifiers in the chain; all the amplifiers in the chain will be powering their own speakers. Therefore, if 4 amplifiers are daisy chained, each amplifier will be powering its own speaker.

+stageleftaudio, thank you very much for the thorough response! I am very happy that I waited to hear from you rather than trying to follow through with my initial plan. With that being said, if one amplifier in bridged mode is not enough to power the base cabinet, then it is probably wise to buy a more powerful amp, correct? I find your video is very resourceful, and I I'm looking forward to learning more as you put out more videos!

+stageleftaudio, also, I didn't mean to misspell "bass"... so, is the purpose of using daisy chain amplifiers, for example, to run separate power to mains and monitors? For example, use an unpowered mixer, use amp A for mains, and use amp B for monitors (daisy chained in stereo mode) all connected to the unpowered mixer so that you can control the power going to the mains and the monitors using only the one mixer, correct? I hope that made sense

+Eric Traub Daisy chaining amplifiers is for the purpose of providing the same signal to multiple amplifiers in order to drive multiple speakers (for FOH applications). For example, by daisy chaining amplifiers, you could run 12 speakers, each with their own amplifier (assuming 12 amplifiers) from one output of the mixing console. The logic flow you referenced above in your post is possible, though, it is highly not-recommended NOT to run the same signal to FOH and monitors!

+Eric Traub Unfortunately, if you need more power to drive a speaker, you will need to use a more powerful amplifier (up to a point). If you use an amplifier that is too large for the speaker, it could lead to mechanical and/or thermal damage to the speaker. Thanks for the feedback on the videos. There's a lot to learn in sound... never stop learning.

Yes, using a dedicated amp for each speaker usually works out a lot better. The XLS1502 is a good amp, but appears to be undersized for the speakers you have. You will NOT get extra power by daisy-chaining; all daisy-chaining does is send the same signal to multiple amplifiers. You may need to configure the XLS1502 amps to run in bridged mode to get the power you are needing. Use the "link/ out" on the back of one of the amps to send the signal to the next amp. Important -- Check the XLS1502 documentation for how to configure the amp to run in bridged mode. Also, there may be some special speaker wire changes you would need to do for the bridged mode to work correctly on your speakers.

Thanks for your comment.

As many as you need. Any signal loss that would be incurred would be insignificant, and that would probably involve daisy chaining many, many amplifiers.

It would be setup about the same way. The RCA, phono, and XLR inputs on each channel of a GX are all wired together in parallel (for that specific channel). If you connect into the amp (from your console) with an XLR, you would then use one of the other inputs (phono or RCA) for that channel and connect it to the input of the next amplifier. However, I would not recommend the RCA connection. Use the phono connector or XLR.

We considered making a video covering delay towers/speakers. We will try to come up with a video in the near future covering it. For your question, not using delay on speakers usually results in an annoying "echo" that can be disruptive to the listeners. The more speakers connected from speaker to speaker without delay usually results in bad sound quality and an unintelligible mix for the people at the furthest point away from the stage. The further back the crowd is, and the more speakers there are, the worse the sound/mix quality can be without using delay.

When daisy chaining amplifiers, each amplifier will have its own speaker(s) attached to it. Each amplifier in the daisy chain setup will be playing the same signal as all the others.

@@stageleftaudioand do the amplifier volume have to be set the same or can set differently according to what each pair of speakers can handle just running from each amp.

You are correct. The amplifier volume on each amp can be set differently.

Make sure the amplifier attenuaters (or volume controls) are set properly... maybe all the way up. If you are daisy chaining different amplifiers, it is possible the input voltages on the amps are not the same. Different input voltages can equate to different output levels This is why using the same amps for daisy chaining works best. If the amps are the same, it is possible one channel may not be putting out the same power. There could be an issue with the cables you are using to daisy chain. Try running the amplifiers (the ones with reduced level) by themselves (not daisy-chained). See if the output levels appear to be the same as the louder amplifier.

You are correct. Each amplifier drives its own speaker(s).

The cables are standard XLR to phono (balanced). I don't recall the brand name of them. Cables like these can be purchased from most any place that sells sound related gear (including Amazon). Make sure they are balanced.

Yes.

I have the qsc USA 1310 is an old model!

You can link TO the USA 1310, but you may not be able to link OUT of the 1310 to another amp.

why???

I don't think the USA series provides parallel inputs, meaning 2 inputs (input methods) per channel. The amplifiers used in our videos have parallel inputs which provides for daisy chaining. You may be able to use a "Y" connector if you need to send a signal past the 1310.

Those cables are basic TRS jumper cables.

It depends on which QSC amplifier you are talking about. The QSC PLX series (which is used in this video) does NOT parallel the channels together to make a larger channel. For the PLX line of amps, a "parallel" setup simply means to parallel the signals; meaning, a signal coming into channel "A" will be "paralleled" to channel B (i.e the same signal coming into A will be directed B) without having to use a "Y" cable or jumper-cable to get the signal to go to both channels. By "paralleling" the signals, this is how you can chain the amplifiers together using one signal source. QSC does of a PLD series of amplifiers (Class D) that does combine channels together to create larger amounts of power.

Thank You for your answer, Its a qsc dca 3402, has the back stereo, parallel, mono, limit, and filter switch similar to the rmx series. It feeds 1200 watts at 4 ohms per channel in stereo. I am trying to figure out to power a pair of jbl sr4719x, and a pair of jbl sr4715a each sub handle 1200 watts at 4 ohms continuous, they peak at 2400 watts at 4 ohms.

Sounds like the rear controls of the DCA are about "standard" for amplifiers in that class. Make sure the limiter is always set for each channel, and that the low-filters are set for the type of speakers you are connecting. The amplifier should be in "stereo" mode when connecting your speakers. You can attach all the subs to your amp (2 spkrs per/chnl) , however, you'll need to be very careful when running the amplifier with those subs. Each of your subs is 4ohms. If you place 2 of the subs on each channel of the DCA amp, this will present a 2 ohm load (per channel) for the amplifier. The amplifier is rated for 2 ohm loads, (maximum), but probably not for a sustained load (sustaining of elevated volume levels). 2 ohms per channel of your DCA amp may produce about 800 watts to each of your sub cabinets (800 watts x 4-cabinets = 3,200 watts); though, running the DCA amp at 2-ohms will probably cause the amp to run very hot and could add additional stress to the amp. Be careful with running the amp under that type of load; it does work, but care is needed.

I have two dca amps, I have the limiters on and low filter set, I figured out parallel, one amp for right, one amp for left, one sr4715a and one sr4719x on each amp.

Yes using a "Y" connector is acceptable. Depending on how far the MA 5000 amps are from your drive rack, you may want to place the "Y" connector at the amplifier side of the cable run, instead of having 2 long runs from the drive rack.

Ok. I have all my amps and the drive rack in the same rack. So on the drive rack on channel A on my lows should I hook up a XLR Y splitter to my amps on channel 1 and 2 and then on the channel B on my drive rack another XLR Y splitter to my 2nd amp channel 1and 2? Thank you for replying back.

Or can I get a splitter Y and plug it on my drive rack on channel A for my lows and the other end of the Y plug one end to one amp to channel A and on my 2nd amp plug the other end to channel A and do the same thing one channel B?

Yes - this way will work as well. Having your amps and the drive rack in the same rack is beneficial.

Yes. Just make sure the attached speaker load is is within range of what the amplifier can support. This video covers the mono setup of the amplifiers; this means that only one speaker is usually connected to one mono (bridged) amplifier. Two speakers can be connected to a mono (bridged) amplifier, but the amplifier needs to be able to support the added load of the other speaker.

Yes. As long as the 1/4 inch cable is a TRS cable. It has to be TRS to ensure a balanced signal.

It can also be run for a bass only configuration or a mid/high configuration. Whatever signal you send, all the amplifier channels will produce that signal. We daisy chain our sub amps (mono setup) by sending the sub amps the cross-over signal from the "Low" out of the crossover.

Yes, using an active crossover with daisy chained amplifiers is very common. For example using the "low" frequency output on a crossover, all you need to do is connect the "low" output of the crossover to the first amplifier in the chain.

@stageleftaudio ,what about the mid and high,same procedure also?

@stageleftaudio What about if I want to use one particular amplifier for the low frequency, I mean using the both channels and another amplifier both channel for the mid?

Yes, same procedure. Whatever amplifiers that will be used in a daisy-chain for a particular frequency range (i.e. Low, mid, high), will all get the same frequency as whatever will be connected from the output of the crossover to the input of the first amplifier.

Yes, this would be a very basic 2-way crossover setup. However, if you only have 2 amplifiers, you would NOT be daisy chaining any amplifiers. Each amplifier would be dedicated for a certain frequency range determined from the output of the crossover. For example, the "Low" output would go directly to one amplifier, and the "Mid" output would go directly to the other amplifier.

Merhaba - Amplifikatörde hangi ayar kullanılırsa kullanılsın, klip sınırlayıcı her zaman etkinleştirilmelidir. Arkadaki diğer ayarlar yalnızca bir geçiş KULLANILMADIĞINDA mevcuttur. Bir geçiş kullanıyorsanız, diğer ayarlar "Tam" olarak ayarlanmalıdır çünkü geçiş, amplifikatörlerin yükselteceği frekansları yönetecektir.

It depends on the amplifier manufacturer; you would need to check the product manual to see what the temperature range is for the amplifier. If the product manual does not indicate if the amplifier will turn off, you would need to contact the manufacturer and ask them directly.

Daisy chaining within the same rack does not present any loss of signal gain. Any losses in signal gain, would probably occur if the cable lengths between amplifiers were over 200ft (60m).

stageleftaudio thanks a lot sir.

Correct. In stereo mode, 2 speakers per amplifier at the same time. In mono (bridged) mode, only 3 speakers would be used at the same time.

It depends.... It depends on the type of PIP card the 5000vz amplifier has installed. Crown offered several configurations for audio input for the MacroTech line. The PIP FMX card is what is needed to support daisy chaining.

stageleftaudio ohh ok thank you

I used subs as an example, because most of the power utilized at event is for subs. Though, it can easily used for FOH mid/high as well.

There's a lot more information we would need to know before determining what amplifier could be use.

There's a lot of variables involved with matching speakers to amplifiers. To be safe, you may want to consider speakers that can handle about 300 watts (if using 4 ohm speakers).

can a 300 watt speakers support my 200 watt 4 ohms amplifier

In general, yes. It depends on how the speaker will be used (live sound, DJ, vocal only, etc...)

yes,

vocal only

Yes.

+stageleftaudio sir how about the watts there's no problem to daisy chain a different watts?example 1st amp is 500watts,2nd is 600 watts?

There's no problem daisy chaining using different wattage amplifiers. Because, when daisy chaining, all you are doing is sending the signal (a line level signal) from one amp to another and to another, and so on.

stageleftaudio in this case, I believe then that you'll have to correctly match the Amps power rating to that of the speaker that matches it?

Yes. That amp has parallel inputs just like the QSC.

Yes.

. thanks. they are different wattage.will that matter

It will not matter. The daisy chaining is only sending the signal to each amp. Just make sure to put the correct wattage speaker on the correct amp!

@@stageleftaudio ok thanks

For this setup, the 1/4 inch cables are actually balanced cables (not stereo). Though, for this setup, "mono" (unbalanced) cables could have been used as well. Unbalanced cables can be used as long as the cable lengths are kept short (less than a few feet/meters).

Unfortunately, we are only able to conduct videos in English. If we had French speaking personal, we would be able to do videos in French.

@@stageleftaudio I want to connect two amplificators behenger europwer ep2000 to mixer yamaha

Selon la manière dont les amplificateurs seront utilisés avec votre console, vous aurez peut-être besoin d'un filtre actif. Vous pouvez également connecter un amplificateur pour les haut-parleurs principaux et l'autre amplificateur pour les haut-parleurs de contrôle. Pour les haut-parleurs principaux, vous devrez connecter un XLR (ou 1/4 ") de la" sortie "de la console à l'entrée de l'amplificateur. Même configuration pour les haut-parleurs de contrôle.

Thanks for your comment. We are looking at doing a short video covering an analog snake. Should be in the near future.

Daisy chaining is used to send the same signal to multiple amplifiers. This could be used if you had a large number of subs (all sub amplifiers would be getting the same signal). Or, if you have a lot of passive mid/high cabinets and need them to all be playing the same signal. Daisy chaining is mostly used with sound systems that have a lot of speakers (think of large concerts). We daisy-chain our sub amps when doing large events.

@@stageleftaudio Thank you for the great information.

No. Just as long as the amps can support parallel inputs/outputs. You can daisy chain a variety of amps.

To distribute a signal to multiple amplifiers. This could be used for center-fills, side-fills, balcony locations, etc...

@@stageleftaudio you mean extra speakers?

Yes. Extra speakers for different locations. As for adding extra power, daisy-chaining does NOT produce one big large amplifier with all the power from all the amplifiers that are daisy chained. All daisy chaining does is send one signal to multiple amplifiers to allow you to amplify the same signal across many amplifiers. In this video, you could attach a speaker to each speaker terminal.

@@stageleftaudio thanks i'm a bit of an amateur on the technical side ... as i see it, more speakers = a louder sound - but i have blown a few amplifiers in my time and i am trying to rectify that problem

+Opensea Hawaiianbless The Carvin amplifiers are nice. I highly recommend downloading the manual for those amplifiers. They will show you what needs to be done to configure them for bridged operations. It would take a lot of writing here to explain what is already in the manual. Running an amplifier in bridged mode will require a speaker (or speakers) with enough wattage capacity to support the amplifier. The speaker outputs on an amplifier are looking at the total ohms for the load. Therefore, one 4-ohm speaker will closely present the same load as 2 x 8-ohm speakers. From your questions, take a look around youtube and other internet sites for audio related topics about amplifiers and ohm load. What you are seeking an answer for could take a long time to answer (in this forum), due to the number of variables involved with an answer! Learn as much as you can about amplifiers, and load - there's a lot to know! There's a couple of videos on this channel that may help you with your bridging and ohm-load questions. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks Stage Left Audio ... I like your amp tutorial ... you are right there is so much to learn , I know ain't that simple to answer all the very important questions about amps & electronics . by now I have only one question ... is ... if the most great amps like Peavey , Carvin , QSC , Bugera , Behringer ... once they are bridgeable at whatever ... could be 8 ohms or 4 ohms or even 2 ohms ... What I like to learn is if we need to hook two loudspeaker for each amp one loudspeaker for each channel ... two amps in bridge ... should be 4 loudspeaker ...?? 2 loudspeaker for each amp ...?? ___ my question is ... once two amps are in bridge we need to hook up only one loudspeaker for each amp ... or two loudspeaker for each amp ... knowing that each amp have two channels only ... like the most two channels amps ... , that should be two loudspeaker for each amp ...? ___ Thanks for your attention ... forgive me if I am annoying too much on this ... and I will keep searching for all these awesome tutorial on amps , music electronics ... Thanks again .

+Opensea Hawaiianbless Looks like you are asking a few questions... For most amplifiers, there are a lot of options for connecting loud speakers to amplifiers. Try to look at the total ohm-load that will be placed on each amplifier channel... rather than the number of speakers that can be placed on each channel. Some speaker cabinets are 4-ohms, others are 8-ohms, and some are 16-ohms. Most amplifiers will run less 4-ohm speakers per channel than it will for 8-ohm speakers, because 4--ohm loads are greater than 8-ohm loads. When running an amplifier in bridged mode, most amplifiers can only support an 8 or 4-ohm load (not 2-ohms); therefore, it is safer (and recommended) to run only 1 speaker per amplifier if those amplifiers are in bridge mode. For non-bridged amplifiers (2-channel mode), it's usually safe to run 2 speakers per amplifier channel. It all depends on the amount of load (8/4/2 ohms) an amplifier is made to handle (as well as the total ohm load of all speakers that will be connected to that channel).

Thank you very much ... StageLeftAudio ... that's understood ... I really appreciate ... ( when running amplifier in bridge mode _ it is safer and recommended to run only 1 speaker per amplifier ) ... Thanks again ... ( I know there is so much to learn ... and tutorial like yours are really helping very much ) ... right now I am far away from Santiago - Chile's Amps / Music Electronics schools ... and the fast away to get lots of important professional answers is online talking with some friends ... 'til we are sure how to link / hook all this " new " updated awesome monsters like DSP - Mosfet- Class D ...so on ..and on ... and we love all this . Thanks again I really appreciate ... Keep up the great work !

+Opensea Hawaiianbless Feel free to post other questions on any of our videos. Thanks for the comments and good luck!

With daisy chaining, each amplifier would have its own speaker attached to it. So, if you have 4 amplifiers you are daisy chaining, you could have at least 4 speakers attached. The daisy chaining of signals is ONLY for the signal coming from the mixing console.

Good observation. For this exercise and the amount of "power" being generated, having no load attached to these amplifiers does not present any issues. Most modern amplifiers are fine with no-load testing. Amplifier design has greatly improved over the many years. It's the earlier model amplifiers (much of the class A and A/B) that would have issues if run with no-load.