Stihl MS 250 Real muffler mod Massive difference!!! 

Dyno testing has proven that gains are to be had with no restrictions in the exhaust. It does move the power curve though, this is where folks get confused. You might actually loose power at your normal cutting speed, but gain it elsewhere, which might or might not benefit your particular sawing methods. I been cutting timber for 25 years with ported chainsaws, I would never run a stock saw. The older stihls even came factory with dual port or even triple port mufflers like the 038mag 2 made in west germany. The factory knows that getting the exhaust out is a plus. OSHA is what caused the mufflers to become more restrictive, to meet noise requirements

A Lil bit is required to make good power if you don't have any resistance your it will just sound loud

Same here.

it's more for guiding - only idiots tighten screws enough to crush parts. Have you ever tried to put a long bolt through a second hole with a big, blind gap between? it's a pain in the ass - so they put those tubes, which happen to also add unnecessary structural rigidity. Derr hurr I'm so smart momma I made duh youtube comment telling da guy he was wong

@@tragikk03 i swear these mufflers add at least a lb to the weight of the damn saw. i'm going see if i can just bolt a pipe to the chainsaw somehow

​@@tragikk03You guys are hilarious! I usually bolt my lips to the cylinder and let the exhaust gas blow through me and out my ass. But I realize not everyone can do that. Because they haven't taken out the baffle yet.

@@schlomoshekelstein908 thanks schlomo sheklestein

I'm really glad that all worked out for you. This mod makes such a big difference on a stock saw its kind of silly.

It’s noticeable but not terrible.

Well you have ears dont you? lol

😁

That’s bad ass! What do you use for gear reduction to run the bicycle? I’ve actually made a scooter powered by a MS 044 once. I had to use a jack shaft and A total of four sprockets/2 chains to reduce the gear ratio. It worked out great and still hit 28 mph.

@Arborist Life wow you're going all out I use a yd100 Chinese 2 stroke bottom end do some modification to the transfers and bolt patterns and slap a 460 cylinder on.. things do 50+

If the shop time for the daw cost more the the saw to repair a pull starter and a ripped rubber grommet you bought the 170 or something similar. Those r shit saws and u bought the cheapest saw and expected top of the line performance. Also, most of my saws are t Yeats or older and I haven't broken the pull start yet, your doing something wrong and consistently are doing it if the 1st feature you look for it being able to quickly fix the pull starter. Stop trying to rip it outta the saw. You shouldn't be pulling till you hit the end of the rope.

I'm like you, I bought a new Stihl MS 250 because everybody said that Stihl was the best. The 250 was what I could afford at the time. You couldn't give me another Stihl chainsaw. I'm 74 years old now and have been using chainsaws since my early 20's and I know how to start one but by the time I can get it started I'm too tired to use it. I too had a Poulan Pro that I bought at a yard sale and it sat for about 7 years with old gas in it and it fired up within 3 pulls. The Stihl takes a minimum of 12 to 15 pulls to get it going and if it's hot it literally won't start at all until it cools down. If I could afford another saw I'd toss it in a dumpster somewhere. I do still have the Poulan and it still runs great.

🤣🤣🤣 Husqvarna builds great saws

@@williamsharp2532 unfortunately, i had to go to the xp model to get a metal case and forged crank

Cant lug a husky like u can a stihl

Put the pipe down!

You’re absolutely right and not the first person to mention that lol… I won’t make the same mistake twice! Thanks.

@@arboristlife3494 That’s not a mistake on your part but a “mere oversight”. 👍👍

@@brianwalker1933 but he DID make a mistake by claiming he made a mistake right? I NEVER make mistakes .. I thought I did once but I was wrong

@@gschady 😂

@@gschady So law of averages , thats 1 1/2 booboos...LOl

Can you demonstrate how to tune the carb for this mod?

I keep it at 50 to 1 never had any problems with that.

For discussion purposes let’s say the unrestricted muffler uses 10% of the saws’ power, while the restrictive muffler uses 25% of the saws’ power. Set the saw for identical top speed when unloaded with both muffler versions. When doing that, remember you have 100% of the saws’ power available to overcome that 10% or 25% restriction. Then get into the wood. The unrestricted muffler lets you put 90% of the saws’ power into the wood, while the restrictive muffler lets you put 75% of the saws’ power into the wood. 90% - 75% = 15%. 15% / 75% = 20%, meaning the wood sees 20% more power for the same amount of fuel. Because the log sees 20% more power you will be able to cut it faster. Because the muffler is consuming less power you will burn less fuel per log.

​@josephdugal4533 One of the best explanations on this post.

Yea she’s running a little high 😬

i doubt this mod would make the saw rev high enough to do any damage. since its a 2 stoke you could probably push it pretty high in the revs before any component got to its failure point.

I don’t think you’re taking into consideration the three louvers at the muffler exit, they provide all the Resistance needed for resonance which can be made larger or smaller for Peak performance. all the baffle does is slow exhaust gases and slightly bring down decibel levels. Obviously, the carburetor needs to be tuned for the modification as to not go lean, damaging the motor like you’re talking about. PS. I’ve been running that very saw with the “muffler mod” just over two years now nearly every day for work with no problems.

@Blake Hoekzema Does the fuel consumption increase?

That would completely defeat the purpose of doing a comparison test in the first place. But thanks for asking.

No, the chain stayed exactly the same the only difference between cuts was the muffler changes and carb adjustments. So yes, I had to adjust the carb. Sharpening the chain between Cuts is cheating yourself from knowing any true gains or losses. Thanks for asking!

@@arboristlife3494 ..got it..tnks 👍🏼

Yup what he didnt show or say anything about was the new chain he put on between muffler changes

@@holmes1956O Lol, yes. It's not good advice anyway, as Stihl spend a great deal of time and effort to get every minute thing correct on their saws -including the exhaust systems and that's why they out-sell any other make.

@@johnsomerset1510 ageed

@@holmes1956O 🤣🤣🤣 sorry bud the chain was exactly the same throughout the entire video and was not sharpened or changed in anyway.

@@johnsomerset1510 I would have to disagree with you only because a motor is nothing more than an air pump! Any interference with airflow through the motor decreases efficiency. The internal baffle was only designed to decrease sound Levels, reducing a small amount of power at the same time.

Absolutely

No they don’t. That is just a myth.

@@brianwalker1933 Well you haven't owned a four cly k car wtth a aurto tranny you rmove the exhaust the car will have no vacuum and the engine will run like shit and the tranny will not shift and thats not the only engine that will not run without exhaust

OK well a four stroke engine is a completely different animal, regarding taking the exhaust off of a car depending on where are you disconnect the exhaust will introduce different symptoms. Example removing the exhaust manifold will do multiple things like disabling the EGR valve causing multiple issues I can go into if you’d like? As well as disabling upstream and downstream O2 sensors forcing the car to go into limp mode because the computer has no idea how much fuel to deliver. Also removing exhaust=losing any back pressure how does that cause a vacuum leak? Because back pressure and vacuum are complete opposite of each other. Think of your two-stroke engine as an air pump basically that’s all it is, with efficiency in mind moving the air through the engine as effortless as possible is what it’s all about. Thanks for your input though.

@@arboristlife3494 I think there are a lot of 2 cycle dirt bike mechanics that will vehemently disagree, backpressure and tuned exhaust makes a huge difference on two cycles that depend on the flow of gas inertia and reflected pressure wave to suck the next charge in. Have a look at the crazy sh*t they do to exhausts when trying to squeeze that last 1% of performance out. No doubt Stihl did a lot of math and some real world testing to come up with the design of that muffler. You gonna beat that on a guess and a dremel? Unlikely that once you have adjusted your carb for proper mix that you have actually improved performance. Besides it's a freakin ms250, how much time will you save? If you cut for a living, sharp chain and just enough fuel to cut with a fully loaded bar, is where you will make the most money. If you burn 1/3 more fuel to save 2 seconds on a cut, have you actually saved any time? Would be interesting to see if adjust your carb to spec so you dont blow your engine, then put an exact amount of fuel in and see how long it runs till empty, put a stock muffler back on, adjust the carb to spec again and repeat the same fuel consumption test.

@@laserflexr6321 I'll agree with what you're saying, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. I understand the 290- 390 muffler mods, where the baffles aren't removed, but a nice mod of only slightly higher noise but significant cooling and performance with a minor carb adjustment. But, to completely remove the baffle......

Ha ha thanks. I typically rest the 32 inch bar of my 661 on a log and start it the same way LOL.

sorry Murray, so many things wrong with your understanding of a two stroke I don’t know where to begin. What’s crazy is there are so many people out there that Think the same way you do. Except your theories are some of the most Ludacris ideas I’ve heard yet. Not trying to argue with you or put you down just trying to help you out, please don’t Share your ideas about two strokes as fact with other people Bad info only hurts others that believe you.

@@arboristlife3494 ever ridden a two stroke bike? Wont run without the exhaust. Not in rideable form anyway. Two stroke exhaust design is a tricky beast. Maybe you should learn more before getting snotty with someone with 50 years experience trying to be helpful.

@@arboristlife3494 well we could all say the same about your opinions too. Dont be so quick to dismiss someone who says they have 50 years experience.

@@bushratbeachbum Funny that a company with over a hundred years of building and designing would build new saw using a muffler with no baffles yet Husqvarna's new 592XP has no😁 baffles in the muffler.

more fuel, more RPM, more HP and more HEAT, the problem of any engine specially an air cooled one is to dissipate that heat so such a mod can bring the piston to bind in the cylinder causing extensive damage as the aluminum of the piston grows more than the cast iron of the sleeve when the temperature increases.

Really? Seriously?

A few seconds? That was nearly a 50% reduction. If you're doing that for an entire weekend, you're nearly cutting your work down to 1 day. Good critical thinking skills the, short bus; as if people are going to do this to make 1 cut?

Another guy asked me something similar. If you increase power, but the RPM of the chain stays the same. How does it cut in a faster? The answer is that you can push harder. Putter More pressure on the saw/wood, making it eat more without bugging down. Also, before doing the test, I sharpened the chain, I like to take the rakers down a little bit overstock. Which is going to make it bite more wood. A lot of people think that I might have sharpened it in between runs. The truth is, absolutely not! Obviously that would completely Ruin, the entire test. I know you don't know me, but I am an honorable man. And I swear on the lives of my children. I did not sharpen the chain between comparisons. Also I did have to adjust the cooperator I forgot to mention that in the video. Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the feedback.

Yeah I know, it’s easy enough to put it back in if needed.

I forgot to mention that in the video

So the chain was plenty sharp and I did not sharpen it after muffler mod, I think the very first cut was so much slower because the end of the log was dried out and harder than the rest.?? What do you think? I need to do the video again using a “control log” made up of a bunch of 2x4 glued together for consistency. Like I did in my MS 194 VS MS 201t video. Please check it out let me know what you think. Thanks!

I know what an expansion chamber is but I’ve never heard of a expansion tube?

Honestly I’m not sure, I guess it all depends on how the engine fails when it does.

You’re absolutely right, I actually made a video about that except I didn’t talk about the 70% rule. Excellent point about the louvers! too many people saying there’s not enough back pressure because I took out the baffle😖 stupid.

A chainsaw from factory has many things to take in consideration that has nothing to do with the saw working as good as it could, for example noise, environment etc. If someone then comes along and not have to think of these matters don't you think it's pretty easy to get more out of your machine with simple modifications? This is easy to see on mopeds, motorcycles and cars so why shouldn't it work the same on chainsaws. Let me refrase... it truly works the same on chainsaws to.

yap . about 1/4 turn. in or out Hi jet screw ? my saw runs hot , so i keep the rpm low and Leen on the saw. 🦊 I just did a similar mode to the same saw MS250 . it starts and runs good now.

@@larz46north18what about just buying a muffler for the older model 025

Yeah I totally forgot to put that in the video it definitely took some tuning after the muffler mod.

When I made the video, I totally forgot to talk about returning the saw.

Never in my 21 years of experience running a Chain saw have I ever seen a spark come from the exhaust especially one that would cause a fire. However I once caused Bark to start smoldering during a low stump cut where the exhaust gas was blowing directly into the dry bark for a period of time.

You probably won’t believe me but my MS 250 with muffler mod, timing advance and E85 fuel. Yes that’s right modified to run on corn alcohol lol. I do have a 261C The M-Tronic pro series and the 250 will out perform the 261 all day. What do you think?

If you drove a diesel truck instead of a Prius you wouldn’t have to be told that in order for manufactures to meet strict governing body standards such as maximum Decibel levels, emission standards, vibration management guidelines and much more, engineers all too often rob Peter to pay Paul. By designing A muffler to be quiet enough as to pass below the maximum decibel level established will intern cut overall maximum output of a particular Engine. Causing said engine to fall short of peak efficiency! Then again, driving off into the sunset in your Prius, your not the type to be bothered by things like diesel exhaust fluid, dpf’s, EGR systems, restrictive exhaust systems, smog pumps and so much more. And all for what? So Joe public can feel good knowing he’s doing his part for the environment but pay no attention to the unrestricted balls to the wall big polluters out there. Or maybe you actually meant that the stihl engineers really are stupid? Who knows I kind of went off on a tangent lol 😂

@@arboristlife3494 “Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.” -A. Einstein

Do you truly believe that chainsaw, car, motorcycle - manufacturer can build a product that works as good as it could and no regards has been taken from powerfull interests as environment authorities and other that hates petrol and diesel engines? If so, you have been so thoroughly taken in! Stop believe that government and other authorities have our best in mind, they don't. Careers has to be made, extreme amounts of money is up in the air and alot of companies wants a bit of that cake. No one thinks even one thought for people like you and me. They don't care if your chainsaw even works, they care about their job and to force their personal truth on companies like Stihl. It amazes me people doesn't understand things like this and walk thru life both deaf and blind.

the manufacturer have to meet noise, pollution and safety requirements plus, they have to support a warrenty to be able to sell to the public, so, there is trade off like baffle in the mufflers to meet that In your backyard, you can do what you want with your equipments but if an accident ( injury, fire, etc...) happens, be sure that the manufacturer will not support you if the equipment have been modified.

totally agree

I’m sure you’re absolutely right about shortening the lifespan of the saw, so this parts gonna blow your mind. To make the video I actually converted the saw back to running gasoline, two years ago I modified it to run on E85 ethanol Which dramatically increased power output. I’ll be uploading that video as soon as I can. The motor is completely stock/no porting or polishing so I’m interested to see how long it lasts. When it does blow up I’ll do a teardown video showing what failed. I love to tinker and can’t leave anything alone, I believe there is no such thing as too much power lol. In the pursuit of all things that excite me blowing up the saw is one of my least concerns.Thanks for your input!

@@arboristlife3494 You bought the saw with your own money, it's yours to do whatever you want with it !

I'm confused by your comment. Does the chain look dull to you? If so, please Show me what a sharp chain looks like on an MS250. Thanks!

It’s easy enough to put one in if I feel the need, thanks though.

You need to be smarter then the exaust pipe that you made the mod to! I modified every exaust pipe on every 2-stroke engine i own. If you leave all that shit in there, Baffles, Spark arrestor, you will certainly bake the piston! Just look at the old chainsaws, Most of them had nothing more then a stinger exaust pipe on them! A 2-stroke piston travels way to fast to be restricted by Baffles, spark arrestor screens and such. And the spent fuel coming out when the exaust port opens up is traveling at twice the speed of sound when super heated, There is no time for the last spent charge to get out of the exaust pipe before another super heated charge is entered into the pipe causing massive heat when it is restricted by all that crap! And if your chainsaw is spitting sparks out the exaust you are doing it wrong!

😂😅😂😅