Had no idea Sochi was a street circuit, which sorta proves the point in this video perfectly. Also, another example of a "street" circuit on the other end of the spectrum would be Circuit Gilles Villeneuve. Permanent circuit but has a definitive street-feel. Love that track.
I know I'm a year late, but Gilles Villeneuve is technically considered a street circuit. It was built on bike paths, etc. that meandered across the island, and they're still bikable (I think even drivable in a few stretches) today when the circuit isn't being put into use.
Hi, Montrealer here, the track is build on a man-made island. A part of it is used as street to wander around the island, and shared with bikes, yes. A dedicated bike lane is marked with cones. Get your facts right before commenting : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Gilles_Villeneuve.
Actually, Gilles Villeneuve is a street circuit. When it isn't racing time, the track essentially becomes a way for cars and people to get around / workout. During the fall and winter, some works maybe done to get the track back up to FIA standards but then, it reopens in spring when the snow melts and only gets closed for like 3 weeks for GP preparations. As soon as the race is over, it gets reclaimed by the bikers and runners
One of the best permanent street circuits is Bathurst. It was designed as a race track but claimed to the state government that it was going to be a scenic road to get funding.
@@logoncal3001 does the word "street" imply "city"? LeMans uses public roads. That makes it a street circuit in my book. Or did you forget that Sochi is not in the city either? It in the olympic parc.
It's fun drive on, but it doesn't produce quality racing (sure, the 2017 grand prix was unforgettable, but it wasn't because of the track, but rather because of the marshals incompetence, who didn't properly clean the track during the safety car period)
IndyCar has the best street circuits. St. Pete is awesome, Long Beach is Self Explanatory, Detroit is built on an island, and has a permanent feel to it, and Toronto is unique, using a parkway, and an Exhibition Place to make it very challenging. Thank god the Boston track never came
@@SamnissArandeen Yes. Another great track. I have no opinion on Nashville, cause it has not been raced on. Baltimore was meh, Edmonton was cool, Sao Paulo was just redundant, because Interlagos. I have not looked into the Many Champ Car tracks yet, but I plan to.
Another example of a good "Street" circuit is Potrero de los Funes, in Argentina. It is actually a road and a circuit at the same time, and its used like the principal road of the city...
6 years later, and after a 2022 Formula 1 calendar which chose to have 60% of the first 10 races be street/hybrid tracks this video still very much rings true. While Baku has turned into a bit of a modern classic at this point, new arrivals like Jeddah and Miami are very much more in the vein of the Valencia's of the world. When the first pictures from Miami rolled out, all I could think about is how much it reminded me of Valencia. With Formula 1 moving further away from classic circuits and "classic" street tracks, and further into the hybrid sort, it really damages the racing. As you said, you can't force a street track. Tracks like Singapore & Baku do show that coming up with a street circuit that can produce good races in this day and age is possible. Just don't force it so much. I'm curious to see how this is gonna change over the next few years, with rumors of fan favorite Spa getting axed and the inclusion of (what actually does seem to be more like a "proper" street track) Las Vegas. Sidenote, it really doesn't help how dick-measury some of these circuit designs have become. "Fastest Street Circuit", "Longest Straight", "Longest Street Circuit" (and actually, as of next year, Jeddah and Las Vegas would be the longest tracks if Spa does get removed), " "First" Hybrid Racetrack", it's just a match in this everlasting competition to have nice stats about your track that don't actually improve the racing.
Isn't Mount Panorama along the same lines? I seem to remember hearing that it had to be built as public roads to get grants and/or approval, but I'm not sure that I believe it. By the way, we have another sort of along the same lines here in America: St. Petersburg. Granted, no part of it is purpose built (outside of maybe the pits), but it isn't completely on public roads. The final corner, pit straight, pit road, and turn 1 are on runway 7 at Albert Whitted Airport.
Your Bathurst fact is 100% correct. The mayor of Bathurst wanted to build an amazing racetrack, but the Great Depression meant that funds were unlikely to be allocated from the government for the building of a circuit. Okay - how about we build a tourist drive in the hills as an employment relief scheme? Great idea! Hey, you know, that new tourist drive would make a GREAT racetrack, don't you think?
Nick'sGaming The Mount Panorama circuit is definitely a true road course - barring race events, the circuit is a public road. People live & work there, and have to use the track for day-to-day things like going shopping, going to work, etc. Hell, should you ever get to go there, you too could drive around the circuit in your hire car - just remember not to speed, as the local police can be a little eager with the fines...
Shootouts. The intensity of a single qualifying lap in a concrete canyon is most exciting when it's short, sharp and frantic. Adelaide, Gold Coast and Newcastle (obviously created after this video) capture that concentrated intensity better than Mt Panorama IMO, and I'd imagine Singapore, Monaco, Pau, Macau and Long Beach would be equally immense. In short, if a shootout (single lap qualifying) format doesn't seem exhilarating, then the track has missed the point I feel.
The main reason is because these are the kind of tracks the FIA wants: minimal risks for injury with miles of tarmac runoff and easy income from the people of rich countries like the ones in the middle east. Also, his good tracks may or may not be flukes. For instance, even though he was the one who designed the Red Bull Ring/A1 Ring/whatever you wanna call it, he just connected a few points of the old Osterreichring with some squiggly line, on a terrain that's so bumpy and full of elevation change, that it would have been hard for it not be any good. Also, I'm not sure who it was, but I remember someone saying that Tilke is too much of an architect and not enough of an artist to make unique racetracks. He mostly follows the same formula, long front straight with a slow corner at the end, some fast turn, a long back straight with another slow turn at the end, maybe a corner with some originality (like turn 8 in Istanbul, or turn 10 in India) and then some completely soulles corners to somehow connect it back to the front straight.
He's definitely had his hand held by his FIA clients but I think he's also worked so much in the previous 20 years that he reverts to type. You see the same corners in Istanbul, Sepang, Shanghai and Sakhir and it's very rare for one his new builds to carry a sense of character. That why I think his redesigns fare better because he's got existing roads and restrictions to work within.
I'm a fan of Valencia. There, I said it. This is mostly down to the last race revealing that it was F1 that was the problem. You suddenly have a bunch of cars on a similar level and BOOM good racing. Same case with Sochi to be fair - the GP2 and GP3 races are infinitely better. Not saying they are GREAT tracks by any stretch of the imagination. Still, I get where you're coming from. Issue is now that the gems like Monaco are becoming far too outdated for racing. I fear there's a desire to find 'the next Monaco' and this leads to almost desperate attempts of track building.
The last point really directly pointing toward herman tilke. He cares about gigantic structure more than the track itself, just look at china and yas marina
As pointed out, its less what Herman Tilke wants and more what the people paying him want. Want a track design that goes under a overpriced Hotel that changes colors at Night and doesn't interfere with the Big ass Ferrari Theme park (Because TOURISMMMMMM), that's what Tilke was instructed to do. Want a track design based on a Chinese callography that's costs way too much (and hosts a race that posts a big loss every year), that's what Tilke was instructed to do. I know its popular to just hate Tilke for no reason other then "THIS TRACK SUCKS", but its the people paying him and the FIA's overly stringent Grade 1 standards that play into this (and in the case of these tracks, as well as Sochi, what looks nice on the Travel guide), not Tilke being aware of what good track design is. Remember Sepang?
Yes it’s my favorite track in f1 games and it’s literally a true “hybrid” most being roads and bike paths while the complex bits are built for the race
Hey, remember the times when all you had to do to make a street circuit was close down some roads, put some hay bales at the sides for moral support and then just race??... ...yeah me neither ಠ_ಠ
It's funny because most of the tracks you talk about are designed by Hermann Tilke. He did some tracks we like (Red Bull Ring, Sepang, Nurb GP) and some atrocities (Yas Marina... Fuji... The 3 chicanes of Monza...) Oh, and did you know Fuji had a different layout in the sixties, with a banked 1st corner ? I didn't...
4 года назад
the circuit de Pau-Ville is an amazing street circuit too, and it's the first track where a race was called a "grand prix" , been around since 1901 ! Le mans is also a good half street / half racetrack.
Despite the history that Monaco bears, it produces the lamest races every year. Even worse than Sochi. It is only the glitz and glamour that give it some legitimacy. But point very well made, there's nothing quite like a Surfers Paradise or Adelaide (old versions!). F1 has lost the crazy/insane flavour it once had.
It seems to me that everyone has forgotten about Montjuïc... One of the best street circuits to ever be in F1. It's a shame that Spain didn't put enough money to held more races there.
To be fair, Albert Park isn’t really a street circuit. A quarter of it is blocked off to the public and people NEVER drive it in their commute... it doesn’t make any sense to call it a street circuit, because that is neglecting the fact that it isn’t used as a street!
@@basicallylife8387 that one is average, not bad, but not that special. Same goes for Melbourne. But the good thing about them is that they have no 90° turns that are the worst thing about most of the street courses. So, Montreal and Melbourne are the better ones. They are good, but they can't be called great.
Sochi doesn't even feel like a street circuit, I think that's why nobody like it. Valencia was ok IMO, Adelaide is really fun in every layout (The original and shortened ones), Long Beach is somewhat balanced between fun to drive and good to race at, and Monaco is a piece of history which should never be lost
Hey, you've talked about trois-rivieres. I come from there and never thought someone would know this one! Do you know any mod on any game? How you get to know it?
I know. I saw your subscription list. But then again, he’s also in my list. I don’t wanna say you’re unoriginal, but I can’t help but feel like this has been done before. Not saying you shouldn’t do this; you should. But like I said, this is more or less Gauge The Issue, but with racing instead of trains. But keep going, I’m interested.
Which city will be better for Street circuit: Lima in Peru Buenos Aires in Argentina Hong Kong (with undersea tunnel pass From Kowloon to Victoria) in China Tokyo in Japan Panama city in Panama Dubai in UAE Moscow in Russia Beijing in China Paris in France London in United Kingdom New York in United States Doha in Qatar
Formula E has raced around street circuits in Buenos Aires, Hong Kong, Moscow, Beijing, Paris, London, and New York, with a second one planned in and around ExCel London before it was used as a field hospital to deal with COVID, and they're all good street circuits (other than Paris. You can't get an overtake done at Paris without Fanboost or Attack Mode.). I'd say the best is perhaps London's original Formula E circuit through Battersea Park, but that's just me.
3 years later. Luckily, we might not need to suffer with Sochi for much more, as there's rumor of them moving it to somewhere near Saint Petersburg (Russia), even as soon, as 2021.
@@magnussencube It wasn't denied, it was on track for 2023 calendar. Until papa putin puts a sprinkle of salt into Ukrainians. (Or some people claim that US gov and NATO that puts the sprinkle first then the Russian pours a lava into ukraine as a retaliation)
Overcorrecting in the opposite direction, why not Pacifica? There's a Firestone dealership that can serve as a pit. You drive on Hickey, Monterey Road, CA-1, and Skyline.
To be fair, street circuits are going to be purpose-built seas of tarmac eventually simply because, once the city planners realize the sheer tax revenue from all the tourism from the racing promotion, those roads are going to be *very* heavily favored and lovingly cared for. They'll be the best roads in the city! Expect the planners and civil engineers to design the street paving with racing in mind, and for the roads to get regular resurfacings and the utmost high-quality repairs to cracking and potholes.
I think it would have been utterly fantastic to drive. For racing, I'm not so sure, but the spectacle would have been worth it, both in terms of layout and location. I'm legitimately sad that it ultimately came to nothing.
I don't get what makes these bad street circuits so bad. Is it the fact there are no tall buildings, tight barriers, and brutal kerbs? Like say there was a building on the inside part of Sochi's second corner. Would this look more epic?
I agree mostly with your video but you say Baku is smoothened out like it's a problem but you don't say anything about Monaco being resurfaced every 3 year
Good street circuits come with their own challenges, narrow roads, bumpy surface, the need for a mistake-less race because the walls are everywhere, but Monaco just takes it all and pushes it to the extreme. You cant overtake, because its too narrow, drivers literally have to alter the racing line because the road goes into a massive dip at end of sector 1 and well, the walls, THE walls. I dont know how does Monaco qualify as an acceptable circuit by FIA's standarts... Either FIA makes their rulebook so it would still fit Monaco, or they just simply whitelist the damn thing, because Monaco really shouldnt qualify for todays F1 standarts, maybe FE, or some karts that are actually slow and small, but not fat beasts that go around the entire country of Monte Carlo in a single minute.
but the Monaco received the exception from FIA's track design rulebook like Zandvoort with it's high banking and Spa with it's length, that's the rules for you.
No you aren't. Monaco was good for it's time, but the modern F1 cars can't race there anymore. It's too cramped and the only reason it stay's on the calendar is because that's the only way the Monaco economy survives.
I don't agree with calling Albert Park and Sochi street circuits, same with Montreal. They're on wide, suburban park roads. The tracks are closer to traditional circuits than true city street circuits. I don't think "it's on public roads" qualifies it as a street circuit. I think it's the actual properties of the track that count.
don't know why you mentioned Albert Park as good, that is such a boring track. I live in Melbourne, and would rather it be back in Adelaide.. Le Sarthe is i believe a semi permanent race track, but uses more public streets than Sochi.. I do love Long Beach though, and annoys me that iRacing never finished it :(
I like Abu Dhabi it's one of my favorite race tracks in the world I like to tracking in South Korea even though I also like that track they had in India the F1 abandoned I like boats the Sochi the Russian so-called Street course and the street course in Valencia but I also like the RaceTrac they have in Valencia I would prefer a both of them over the Spanish Grand Prix they have now I absolutely hate that race track has a race track as a F1 track but again before they reconsider reconfigure Bahrain first I like that even though it was extremely tough and nowhere near as good as the Bahrain we have today also I am extremely off topic I actually don't like Monaco it's too tight there's hardly anywhere to pass it's a lot of single file racing the only way you really pass anybody is by pitting running a different strategy and hoping it works and not being involved in a wreck I'm basically the only way to win there is by starting on the pole plus I can't attack that street circuit no matter if it's in Sim in any of the F1 games by cold faster I cannot attack that place the way I want to So I do not like Monaco I will take the circuit Gilles Villeneuve end the tracks that people dislike over that now I have a love-hate relationship with the Singapore track Now under this Long Beach is probably the best street circuit we got here in America but I will say there are a couple that can rival it st. Petersburg down in Florida the Sebring track which is actually considered a street circuit I think is actually better A side note the first F1 race I ever won in a in a Sim game and a codemasters F1 game came at the same race track and that was in Canada I'm pretty sure I think it was either driving a lotus whichever team was like the top tier bottom team in fight the first codemasters game they made that had like the longest that you can be in the car On another side note I don't like Albert Park in Australia I have a very very strange relationship with that place and it's mostly a. It's like a love-hate place I can win their and then that track just come up and just absolutely jump up and bite me for no reason it might be my driving Styles way too hard on tires And I'm Australian.
