A more obscure way to grab ledge is Dr.Mario's up b cancel. Most people do it out of shield, but if you do it within the ledge grab range (which is really big for Doc btw), he immediately snaps the ledge. It effectively lets you choose when you want to grab the ledge, since you can grab the ledge even if you have upward momentum from a double jump. You can also reverse the up b cancel and grab the ledge if you're facing the wrong direction.
Here's a little tip for all you aspiring Bowser players (god help you). When fortress hogging like in the video (5:08), a consistent way to make sure you don't overshoot the ledge is to hold your analog stick in the diagonal notch pointing up and away from the stage. So if you're up b'ing from the stage to the right ledge, keep your stick in the top right notch while you transition off stage and you'll always be sure to grab the ledge.
Great video as always! I've been implementing shorthop turnaround laser ledge cancels as a fun way to grab the ledge every so often. They're really cool when I don't overshoot and fall off the stage and die lmao
Lemon drop as Doc is worth mentioning, especially since it puts a hitbox right on the ledge before falling to it! You can also dash, turnaround on the ledge and wd back during the turnaround animation as Falcon and probably other chars. Nice video!
For Fox and Falco I'm fond of dash into short hop reverse laser (doesn't matter if it actually shoots) and sometimes even fastfall onto stage into falloff ( with fastfall again) ledgegrab. Flashy and can be practical
With peach if you have a turnip you can also grab the ledge by jumping towards the edge and then throwing the turnip backwards to turn around, similar to the Marth back air tech shown!
@@Radarssbm Its niche. If you're like mid-stage with Fox you can run > full hop > laser turn around and it'll get you to ledge fast. It's also good if you're on a platform. Otherwise the options you listed are better.
This is what I came to say. Too slow if you're not already holding a turnip, but if you are, you simply run towards edge, jump, throw backwards with C, and you can grab ledge super fast. You can even jump, throw, and edgecancel to grab ledge too
Good to note for my fellow falco mains that the shine turnaround wavedash back os a lot safer than the shine up b versus stuff like Marth's up b, as you pretty mich don't have to be vulnerable offstage at all.
there is something i feel like you should have mentioned... you can let go of the stick during dash and run when you get to the ledge to have it edgecancel, then dash back and wavedash back to the ledge... is a nice option for when you're dashing/running and not confident you'll be able to get to the ledge from a wavedash...
great video! i like that you took time to mention fastfalling after wd to ledge bc i think thats something thats easy for alot of beginner players to miss, i think when you were talking about spacie options (specifically falco) it would have been nice to mention turn around laser edgecancel to ledge bc for falco atleast its one of the fastest ways for him to grab ledge from far away
Young link player here. A good option for ledgegrabs are bombthrows in the air. It's very good against characters with quick recoveries. If they grab ledge before you, the slideoff upB will just send you to your death. It's also easier to perform and more reliable. Downside is that it's definately lame compared to the slideoff upB
With Link (and probably YL too) bomb launching at ledge and from platforms can be a good way to mix up grabbing ledge as well. Also, it's pretty stylish :)
The main issue is that they got way worse after I had a brain injury from a car accident a few years back. I’ve made a bunch of progress in recovering from that since then, but it made my migraines SO much worse, and that aspect of recovery has still been very slow and challenging. Definitely the difference between something that was an annoying part of my life to a full on disability at the moment
I like moonwalk 2 ledge 4 w.e reason. I do it mostly w Fox and falcon. I guess it's mostly a question of situation specific timing and mind games placing urself n a position where ur opponent doesn't expect u 2 cover the option
shield pivot jump could be included since it’s both practical, works with every character, and also builds a good skill/sets you up in a good position to do other options dash toward ledge > dash back and shield instantly > short hop backwards > fast fall grab edge
I was thinking about this one, and including shield pivot into + wavedash out of shield back to ledge. It ended up not making the cut but mostly because I wanted to keep the video short
Great video. You missed Fox's running shine into turnaround jump-cancel. It's his fastest option, but extremely hard to do. I like because it will clank with a Sheik's UP+B and running shine is good offensively anyway. You can push somebody off stage and grab edge immediately.
I will say for falco; since his run is so slow, shine turnaround wavedash to ledge with the correct spacing and wavedash angle is much faster than shine TA up-b
I've been trying to implement RNCs more as Sheik myself, but snapback messes me up like half the time, FeelsBadMan Also sorry to hear about the migraines; hope that you get well soon!
@@Radarssbm Yeah I probably will some day. My controller is unmodded and has been in use for almost 6.5 years now so I'm probably just due for a new one LOL and then I can get it all tricked out!
Great content Radar! One point of input: 0:15 I'm not sure this specific clip of Hbox short hopping to ledge fits the narration of "even experienced players don't spend enough time actually getting comfortable moving to the edge quickly." Sure, he *could* have done pc drop, sh sing turnaround, or wavedash fastfall, but his decision to delay his jump and do so with his back toward SFAT's offstage fox seem to fit his choice of edge guard flowchart in this context (delayed jump gives both more time to watch for SFAT's recovery option and delays the start of his i-frames from ledge, the latter being useful to avoid being burned; even with the wait, he would have time to cover side b and a sooner up b) Does Hbox pick slower ledgegrab options in moments when faster, more technical options would be more effective? Often enough that I think choosing him as a representative of your point is logically valid, and a different clip would be realistically sound. Open to discussion.
No, Hbox definitely did the correct thing there. The point wasn't supposed to be "look Hbox is doing the wrong thing" it's just an example of how edge grabbing quickly is important. When I referred to experienced players, I didn't mean pros, I meant people like myself who have been playing for years, but could still work on practicing certain quick options to ledge. Those people, I believe, don't practice it because it's boring.
The only one I can think you missed is trowing an item so that you face the ledge. I think this one is fun because all charcaters can use it as long as they have an item or are fighting a character that has it
icies have a few ledge techs that are technically covered in this video? but do deserve special mention for the things they offer besides just covering ledge. the first is sliphogs: gfycat.com/feistywatchfulearwig these are done by wavedashing to ledge while holding shield then immediately dropping from ledge into a ledgehop or ledgedash. they work because falling backwards off a ledge while holding shield puts you into a "slip" animation that prevents you from jumping out of it for a short time. this causes nana to fall past the ledge when she would normally immediately jump as soon as popo grabs it. the others are runoff and wd off nana rockets. these are a variation of immediate upb to grab ledge, but also serve as a potential way to save nana while doing so. runoff: gfycat.com/softcourteousavocet wavedash off: gfycat.com/idioticcircularaquaticleech
It's funny - you said a shine turn-around up-b was a more intermediate technique and harder to perform and be consistent with, but I'm very consistent with it and horrible at PC drops even though I'm a Marth main and have awful tech skill generally. It could maybe just be a controller issue though, as I haven't tried it with other controllers and the issue is the flick back for turnaround results in a dash (and I am horrible at pivots as well)
I should’ve mentioned this, but controllers can make a difference with how difficult a PC drop is! Try it with a different controller to see if that helps!
@@Radarssbm I just tried 3 different controllers and had no luck with any of them. Maybe they're all bad for PC drops, but I also may well just be bad at them.
@@dr_ill I think you’re just bad at them haha, practice it with Luigi first and check the inputs in this video to see if you are doing something wrong! It’s def not something everyone can do immediately
@@Radarssbm I'm doing the inputs right, I think I'm just bad at flicking the stick back quickly, as I get a dash in place in the other direction as opposed to a turnaround (and if I slow down to 1/2 speed I can hit it consistently). My fingers may just be too slow. I can do it a little more consistently if I only try to flick the stick part way, but even that isn't consistent yet. I need more practice for sure.
What about frame perfect pivot on the ledge to turn around and immediately fall? When you get it down its really fast but not so useful since you need to be in dash dance to pivot :)
You missed zain dropping, laser turn around edge cancel, T-dropping, spacies up B with a very slight angle and Pika's up B. The video was good tho and I hope your migraines get better!
Hey Radar! What's your opinion of the influx of new players after slippi's announcement? It seems like this game will live forever considering how much the community cares about it.
Do you mean shine turn-around wavedash back? Realistically speaking most of the options are very comparable but the fastest option possible is technically for Fox is run to the ledge wavedash forward turn around. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-62IDrqxCAPc.html This video does a decent job comparing them. As you can see, most of them are pretty comparable speed wise (for example shine turn around is 1 frame slower, but still very fast). In the majority of situations, a wavedash back is fine for most characters lol
@@Radarssbm yea i meant shine turn-around wavedash back. Nice video, run off shine turnaround up B is slower than run off side B? wow i thought it was the opposite.
I considered doing a section on shield pivots, probably will be in a part 2 if I make one. Important thing to remember is that if I covered everything in the comments, the video would be over 20 minutes long lol
Can you grab ledge purely out of the super wavedash or do you have to turn around and grapple too? I genuinely wasn’t sure if Samus could do it or not. I can super wavedash, but it didn’t seem like it would set up ledge grab but i am def not a Samus player lol.
@@Radarssbm yeah you can, it only works if your speed is low though so you have to be near the end of the swd or input a dash in the opposite direction you're traveling to lose some of your momentum
I said much extra speed, meaning it is faster. In a lot of situations, a couple frames of speed won’t always make a huge difference, so since my videos generally target mid level players, I think there are SOOO many more useful things you can learn than speeding up your ledge grab tech by a fraction of time. However, I still wanted to highlight different options so that players who are looking for something new still get something out of watching the video. If you watch competitive sets, most of the time they grab ledge with quick wave dashes anyway!
The point of the video was to focus on methods I still viewed as practical, so something that’s very difficult would probably not be a good fit for this video. Can always do a part 2 though!
@@Radarssbm Bro it's nutty. Just run off, turnaround jump and you snap faster than any character. Also down b which can stall, egg throw turn around grab, egg stall. aMSa at the edge is scary bro.
migrane sympathy comment. hopefully it's like my shit where I just get some annoying health issue that seems like it'll never go away but then after 3-4 months it clears up for some reason and I'm good to go.
why would you not recommend certain techniques “if you’re not a top level player”? all it takes is practice and i dont think these techniques cause you to suddenly have good strategy. although, having more options can certainly open up the possibilities for better strategies. i think people should at least learn, if not master all the options that their characters have
I totally get where you’re coming from, and I should make it clear that nothing is off limits in terms of what to learn in melee. What’s important to remember though is if you are someone who is trying to get as good as you can as quickly as possible, there’s gonna be stuff that’s worth learning/practicing, and stuff that’s not. Certain techniques will produce far less of a boost in skill than others. So when I say “I wouldn’t recommend it to a beginner” I’m saying “focus on this first, you’ll notice a much bigger improvement”
As Marth, you can also run passed dash dance range, then briefly crouch, then immediately continue on with a walk carrying momentum from the run, to then set up a quick PC drop. Might take a little practice, but it is a quick option. Experiment with in between angles to see if you can find a way to do it smoothly if interested.
