I think two things in the final scenes swayed Shivs decision. 1.Ken being cocky and putting his feet on Logan’s desk. 2.Ken attributing landing the Gojo deal to him and Rom. Her reaction to those two things said it all, she doesn’t think he can do it well and he will end up sidelining her again. So she picked the lesser of two evils and with her child, there’s more security with Tom
Yup....agree 100%, especially about the feet on the desk. I remember when I first watched this, the look on her face when those feet went up, my thought was "she aint voting for him". Logan had them read correctly....they were not serious people...none of them...but it was at that moment right here when it became crystal clear. Truth is, any one of the three of them would have been a dis-as-ter.
Yh you can see both her and Roman's reactions to when the camera cuts to them, they look uneasy, and uncomfortable, they're saying its ok but they do not look fine at all.
Guys, it's not about money. Yes they have unlimited funds and are rich in that respect. But they never had the love of their father, and in that respect are poor. The company was validation that the father approves and they finally have earned his love. That's the wealth they have been seeking all series.
This was my interpretation as well. Logan raised his kids to believe that love = the company. And he also taught them that there isn't enough love/company for all of them. I don't think there's a single moment in the series where Logan was warm and loving to all four children at the same time. I think that's why Kendall is so volatile at the thought of not being CEO. If he loses the company, he loses Logan's love. And I think that's why Shiv takes it away from him. Because if she can't bear to see Kendall get the company/love instead of her. In the end, I don't think anyone - not even Tom - got what they truly wanted. These are deeply wounded people who keep trying to fill their voids with material wealth.
I think there are multiple reasons why Shiv voted the way she did: 1. Since episode 2 she was the one who never truly believed Ken d be able to lead a company and often voiced it (in a way she always pushed Tom above Ken if one of them had to become a CEO, she even sacrified originally Ken to go to prison over Tom) 2. She very clearly was terrified of being a mother alone and I think that after digesting her options she came to the conclusion that this move at least gives her a chance with Tom 3. In this season Ken further proved to her that once she gave him and Roman the CEO position, they still went behind her back even after seearing on the death of their father...that is a red flag for her future ina company no matter what they say now 4. And in my opinion the main reason, I do think she truly believed Mattson and Tom are more skilled than Ken. And while I dont like it, I do think she is right.
wow the female reactor was way more levelheaded and understood the ending more than the guy lmaoo props to her. and nah the ending was perfect majority ppl agree kendall wouldve become like logan but without the killer instinct and shiv freed him inadvertently like erika was saying. its like logan said they are not, including kendall, are serious ppl and his actions in that room with the siblings showed why. also the guy couldn’t understand shiv’s reasoning but it was as simple as it being logans fault and making them compete against each other for his approval since childhood which resulted in her not truly being able to accept kendall. they showed this a few times if you pay attention: once in logans office when kendall puts his feet up on the desk and the expression on shivs face. another time in that board meeting as kendall cockily addresses the board room and the immediate camera on shiv’s expression lol.
haha I definitely had a moment there. But like I said at the end, I think the way the overall series ended makes sense, with none of the siblings getting it. I can even accept that it's within Shiv's character to do what she did. That notwithstanding.. I just felt like the reasoning was silly to remove your family company from the hands of your family. It also wasn't her job/decision to free Kendall from something he so passionately wanted. But, then again -- not serious people. So.. I guess it makes sense. haha
@@PhilipManzano but it was at least a little bit advantageous for shiv though! because she knows tom will get CEO and she can attach herself to him, and it's better to be married to the CEO to be the sister of the CEO, knowing how ken and roman tried to cut her out of the business in the past. shiv herself has more buying power with tom as CEO. i don't even think she did it to "save" kendall.
@@PhilipManzano Why not ? She still gets the money and deep down, they all prefer selling the company to a stranger than losing it to another sibling. Kendal was the first one worried when Roman was getting close to the president, especially during the elections episode. He didn't miss the chance to humiliate Roman because he cried at the funeral as a way to get him out of the picture.
@@PhilipManzano People miss that Kendall invited Stewie into the fold at the very end there. Shiv saw this. You can see the expression on her face, when she realized she would eventually be pushed out.
I can understand Shiv's decision, Kendal is amazing when he's depressed but when he's in a position of power, he's unbearable... I still have nightmares about his meeting with the startup...he's kind of the typical toxic full of shit boss...
Succession was never going to have a happy ending. It was never that kind of show. Honestly, if the story had carried on from where they "anointed" Kendall in the Caribbean and he was finally made CEO at the end, it would have rang false to everything we've seen for the past four seasons IMO. Logan has pitted his children against each other their entire lives to the point where, when push comes to shove, they just don't have it in them to step aside and let the other one "win" what is essentially Logan's legacy, his pride and joy. That's just not how they're built. I think Shiv changed her mind when she saw Kendall put his feet up on Logan's desk and started making plans with Stewie. You could see her facial expression change as she watched them interact, and it probably reminded her that she would always be shut out as long as the boys were in charge, so in an effort to stay relevant and close to power she chose to make her husband CEO instead. Sure, she'll be miserable in her marriage with a child she doesn't seem too excited about, but she probably thinks she will have more of a say in the company through Tom, although that seems unlikely since Tom is basically Mattson's puppet, but I guess in her mind it's a better deal than she'd be getting with Kendall at the helm. Roman seemed to be the most relieved with being done with the company. Ken probably will never recover from this loss. Connor wanted the deal to go through because he wanted his money. At the end of the day, they all still made billions from this deal even though none of them ended up as CEO, so I don't feel too bad for any of them LOL. What an excellent show. Thanks for reacting to it!
So glad you guys finished the show. :) Shiv always has "options" throughout the entire series (she betrays Tom with Nate, wants to work for her father and ALSO for the man that hates her father, wants to be the CEO to Waystar but also to Pierce), she is never loyal. The fact that she would vote for Kendall would only happen because she didn't have other options. When Tom told her he was also an option she just chose what was best for her between her brother and her husband.
Love this explanation. Helps me reconcile her decision a bit more haha. Appreciate that! And also, thanks for watching with us. It was a wild ride haha.
I never liked Shiv, I don't think her reasons for not giving him her vote are “right”, but really, Kendal taking over would be a nightmare. He's addicted to power, he becomes more unbearable than he already is (and I love his character) but we have to admit that as his sister, being raised that way, I would HATE seeing him win. BUT it was very sad because really, it was his lifelong dream. at the same time, a BEAUTIFUL, realistic ending, for me it made all the sense to be Tom in the end, he sucked enough dicks to get there, “deserved”.
Can't believe it's over. I've loved y'all's reactions to the show, as well as others. I still think about this ending, and how true it is to the characters, for better or worse. Such a great show
Shiv just couldn't see Kendall win, Because it basically meant getting Logan's approval. I think when she realised she was the deciding vote it all became very real for her.
@@PhilipManzano I don't remember where but the writers did clarify that this was the reason behind Shiv's descision. Tbh the way Kendall acted when he thought he had it made me realise he was not a serious person 😂... I don't like happy Kendall
I do think it's funny how many people switch to team Ken at the end there. I was never on his team cause Business Psycho is not someone I can stomach either lol. The job would've have killed him either way. I knew how the show was gonna end though, couldn't avoid it, and I was waiting on them to sell me on being team Tom. I was 100% there and he had a whole new swag walking into the office. I loved it. And I loved the scene when Shiv blew it up. I had a slight theory that Mattson was playing all 3 of them the whole time. Like every bit of information he fed them could be bullshit or it could be real. Have you guys seen Atlanta? I think it'd be at least an interesting show for the channel if you haven't.
They just couldn't concede a lifelong competition to one another, the final attachment to their dad and no one got the coveted prize because they couldn't work together.. a result of Logan's upbringing.
I think you're both absolutely right about the overall perspective of the show. It's relatable and it's not. It's about ordinary things that we all experience, and it's also about things most of us never experience and how those two extremes interact. It's the same when we watch stuff about Roman emperors or other similarly lofty things. They do extraordinary things that impact so many lives and we can't relate, but we're fascinated to have an insight into it, and yet at the same time they do petty things motivated by jealousy and narcissism that we can all relate to at different times. They are both like us, and totally different to us.
In both options she would lose, Kendal would repeat the same patterns and leave her out and Tom is just the punching bag, the pretty face of the company now. but now she has a son with him
You forget Shiv wanted the deal before she was even going to be ceo, its a no brainer. It was absolutely about money for the whole season. If Madsen had said in the first instance "hey, when i take over i am going to bump Tom up to CEO of waystar" she would have been even more for it. She only went with her brothers because she was angry at Madsen and then Tom betraying her. But when Kendall started acting up in the office she remembered why she wanted out. He is a disaster. Roman remembered too. Objectively Shiv has exactly what she wanted, except she is married to the CEO rather than being the CEO. Their marriage will probably be more balanced, she has the money he craves, he has the status and influence she craves. Remember Shiv now has billions of dollars in shares of Madsens company whilst Tom is merely an employee (albeit the top employee) of one if Madsens companies.
Personally, my interpretation of the finale is that its just what Shiv said: She cant fucking stomach Kendall. Seeing him on that chair, seeing him go "thats fucking right" when Roman voted, generally just acting like an overconfident prick during that final meeting when he thought he had it in the bag... Shiv likes to think of herself as this mastermind, but shes impulsive. She cant keep it together when Logan doesnt talk about his succession at the meeting with the Pierces, she cant keep it together here. Others say that this was a calculated move, that she "chose" Tom. She didnt. Shes exactly what she probably always dreaded now. A trophy wife to the CEO. Daughter of a dead billionaire, wife to the CEO of Waystar. And that CEO isnt even king. Hes just doing the bidding of the guy who betrayed her. You want an idea how that kid of hers is gonna grow up? Well, their father is gonna be super busy all the time, working day and night and the mother will be bitter and resent dad. So, well, I guess you just need to look at the glimpses of the childhood from Shiv to get an idea. History repeats itself.
I'm always FASCINATED when people watch 4 seasons of this show and still think kendall should have won.... did you... not understand anything? AT ALL? lol
@@PhilipManzano didn't have to, you literally say you don't understand why shiv is doing it AS she is doing it so.... looking disappointed in the most brilliant move in this entire show tells me everything I need to know :)
There a lot of reasons for why Shiv maybe did what she did, but the creator Jesse Armstrong confirmed - at the end of the day, it was just pure pettiness. The CEO role meant whoever embodied that role officially had their dad's love. Shiv couldn't stand to give that up to Kendall, and rather them all lose than anyone but her win. And yeah - her staying with Tom isn't too bad of a backup, albeit now she's turned into her mother AKA married to a man with power with little to no love in her life.
One of the best shows to come out in the past five years or so. They started off strong and finished strong. It was fun enjoying the best scenes over again with you guys. Cheers! 😁🥂
Guess it depends on where you were having your conversations. In *my* online forums, almost everyone was good with it and thought it was a good ending at the time.
At the end of the day none of them was right for the position of CEO, the reason is together them 3 are Logan, if they worked together they would have succeeded but in 4 seasons they were unable to work together as a unit, you have to be merciless in the field like Logan to even run a company of this size. Kendall is too weak minded but had Logan's work etiquette, Shiv was too gullible and Mattsson spun her around his finger but she had Logan's ruthless and selfish attitude, Roman had 0 job related skills but had Logan's ability to read people. If only they worked together, sadly they never grew up.
To be fair, this show is known for not making intentions clear, it's always 7 different reasons and we're left to decipher which one we believe has more weight. Logan, Mattsen, Roman, even Gerri, who leave us questioning why they make the choices that they've made. Personally I think her strongest motivation for the betrayal in the ep was the beliefe that her proximity to power would be stronger with Tom, which would still equal out not only a win in the long run but a win over her brother, who had already left her out once before (Yes, her relationship with Tom is messy, but she was probably considring that herself, that's why she left the room)
no. he would’ve made a horrible ceo and his reaction in that scene with roman and shiv in that room showed why. like logan said, none of them including kendall were serious ppl.
When Greg says "quad it up", he means Ken and Rome along with himself and Tom. Remember, he knows Shiv's working with Mattson behind everyone's back (also, he doesn't really like Shiv this season)
she ended up just like her mother that she criticizes and despises so much, in a failed marriage, with a man with more power than her, expecting an unwanted child, all because she couldn't beat her brother and gain her dead father's approval
I really wanted it to be Ken man,. I don't think Shiv had ever thought Ken was a better choice than her? Even in S1, she didn't let Ken have it, S2 tried to give him up on the boat, S3 thought it should be her, S4 conspiring against him. Shivs eyes I think it's just her no one else.
