I don't care what anyone says, conceptually, SS4 is the downright coolest super saiyan form. yes it's not as iconic as SS1, or as flashy as 2 or 3, and yeah I've come around to SSB and UI, but when you break down everything that SS4 is conceptually, it's just awesome. it remembers that saiyans are ape/monkey like aliens, and gives them that appearance. lore wise (atleast as far as GT goes) it's implied that it's "the form" that the original legendary super saiyan took, and even if you ignore that. it's even stated that it basically has no downsides. maybe the initial start up ki cost is high, but once activated it's basically second nature and natural to be in that form, and that just makes it sound fucking badass. yeah fine it's not as flashy as Ultra Instinct and it's autonomous movements, but it still understands fundamentally that Saiyans are aliens.
I rule down SSJ4 as a Super Saiyan form with natural Saiyan biology but needs the user to have achieved powerful variants/forms of Super Saiyan to get to that level.
You found him, the form doesnt look as powerful as any of the others, the lack of a glow hurts it a ton the golden glowing hair of the main 3 radiates a sort of energy and power that ssj4 simply doesnt, while the form certainly looks cool its antithetical to Toriyamas design philosophy. Im just not a fan of furry Goku, I can see why people like it but for me I just don't
@@schrodingersdog5512 it's not that hard.. mullets and eye shadow is not how were going out.. got vegeta wearing bootcut jeans and some damn reebok classics..burn the entire form! bro I can't....
Regardless of any arguments of canonicity, to me SS4 will always be the peak of Saiyan potential, taking the raw power of the Great Ape, and harnessing it into a controllable form
Kinda feel like that with dragonball super in the sense that, they are milking super saiyan with just colors. They killed God form too early, to milk blue. The execution has been poor
@@Tiger-makhulu franckly if I could rewrite I would make Goku go blue against beerus instead of regular super saiyen The shere whiplash of getting to transformation in one movie would have been awesome and then losing the power would leed him to him mastering it by resurrection f
4 has the coolest look by far out of all the saiyan forms. Its such a special look. The base colored black hair is refreshing and so original. The tail and red fur is cool too. My favorite form by far
Isn’t the whole concept of SSJ4, that it brings a Saiyan to their absolute peak by design? Adding the growth of the base form just increases each new peak drastically. It’s the perfection of the saiyan form in a sense. Basically the “perfect cell” saiyan form.
I suggest ssj4 is a natural form, the true form of the saiyans, and thus doesn't require ki to maintain. And it's also a form where the saiyan can use all 100% of their power wich has the drawback that thkey can use up all their energy, but their attacks can also hit with max power and they have well enough chances to restore anyway.
@@JohnQueSaccjust ? Ape mode is what makes their race ss4 is the ultimate ss it needed to exist the blonde hair is just a shiny cool ss I would never remove it
@SaiyanScholar that's all thanks to you. I don't think you get enough credit. Like forreals. I watch alot of you youtubers DragonBall content. Geekdom Seth dojo ect. You're my number by far. Keep doing what you're doing. Very very underrated. Much love my guy.
I believed the Super Saiyan 4's multiplier of x4,000 of base form to about that of Super Saiyan God's multiplier. People believed Super Saiyan God's multiplier to that of over x1,000,000, which I find to be ridiculous. In DB Legends' story mode, in a certain story part, Shallot's base form was that of GT Goku's base form, and Super Saiyan God Shallot had struggle to face Nuova Shenron and Syn Shenron just like SS4 GT Goku.
I find it neat that ssj4 and ssg can be relative both are pinnacle to saiyan power, and are legendary in debut.(I don't see ssb as special as ssg or ssj4, ssj4 being the primal pinnacle of a saiyan and ssg being a saiyan withholding divinity)
@@baseformrolf6710The problem is that GT doesn’t have a manga, and since Super has both anime and manga one has to question whether we should use the Super Anime or Super manga to compare the two.
gokus line in gt in retrospect is quite funny after seeing ultra instinct, in gt when goku is blinded he says " in this form my body reacts instinctively , i don't need to see to be able to dodge you" also goku was hanging unconscious WHILE still transformed in ssj4 when pan found hima after the syn shenron beating. ssj4 has virtually no stamina drain , goku stayed in that form for a long time
My theory on why goku got stronger after getting everyone else's energy is that it was an incomplete form of the super saiyan God ritual like we see the first time they try in battle of God's. It's never mentioned whether goku got stronger from that, only that he didn't achieve godmode so it could work that way
Actually it was stated that while the original Saiyan God ritual was butchered in the battle of gods movie Goku still did gain a significant increase in power.
I read somewhere there is a rule of 10 when comparing the outcome of a battle by power levels. +10% is an advantage which could still go the other way. +20% dominates the fight and there would have to be something of a miracle to overcome. +30% is OG Broly showing off his Juggernaut impression.
They should give this form to Broly. Even thought LSSJ is dope as it is....I feel like SSJ4's look and feel of it being primal and animalistic fits Broly's demeanor when he's berserking out. To contrast more with his color scheme (and Ba's cloth he wears around his waist) make his fur and tail yellow/gold like the regular SSJ transformation, give him red eyes, fangs and make his hair white. His aura could be yellow trimmed while the inside is his signature neon green color with pure white lightning
Lol I love the intro screen, all Saiyans and Piccolo in some of their most badass forms, AND THEN THERES MY BOY TIEN-SHINHAN, FUCK POWER LEVELS, FUCK SUPERSAIYANS, AND FUCK YOU, goated
I have an interesting theory, having just watched the first season of Super Dragon Ball Heroes, that can explain SSJ4, Legendary Super Saiyan, Beast Gohan, and SSJ3 Goku only sustaining SSJ3 with a dead body. In SDBH, Cumber is Legendary Evil Saiyan and when he goes SSJ, he looks just like SSJ3 Goku hairstyle wise. It's already fair to say Broly and SSJ3 Goku are close in strength. So Legendary SSJ is about SSJ3. Cumber has the power of his "evil saiyan heart" that Turles basically unlocks for Vegeta. Evil Saiyan heart is Cumbers way to Legendary SSJ around about SSJ3 power. Broly on the other hand has more of the Beast element like Gohan has. Beast mode with around SSJ3 power level. Goku can't maintain SSJ3 because he has neither evil saiyan heart or beast mode. Which is probably why Broly and Cumber are technically stronger than SSJ3 Goku. The beast mode for Gohan could be his demon blood from the Ox King side but he also formerly had the oozaru power which all saiyans have. When you look at SSJ4, they have a controlled oozaru/beast mode form (which Vegeta had a controlled oozaru form in the Saiyan saga just not SSJ) but if you look at the eyes, the have a controlled evil saiyan heart. While GT had it as Golden Oozaru controlled unlocks SSJ4, Cumber doesn't do so because he doesn't have control over the beast side. If Super we're to continue, this gives Vegeta, Gohan, Broly and Goku new skills to learn leading into post end of Z, where Goku, Vegeta and Gohan can get to Legendary SSJ, Broly can control it and a path to SSJ4
The skyscraper feat I’ve always akined it with the Superman explanation that his powers can apply his strength to the entirety of what he’s lifting so it doesn’t just crumble and fall apart, but Goku does it with Ki
I realise this is a controversial opinion but I prefer GT as a series on the whole than I do Super. The only thing I didn’t like about GT was the ending even though it is a very powerful poignant moment. I do still like Super but it needed to continue past the tournament of power, it doesn’t end it just sort of stops. I know this is a problem with the anime and not the manga but I don’t read manga and nor should I have to know how the story continues. But it is what it is and that’s how they have done it.
Super Saiyan 4 is my all time favorite transformation, although I love goku's god form, I feel that Super Saiyan 4 is more of a possibility for an evolved saiyan.
i can say its a kid. he has muscle. which means. (goku after buu arc) but a kid version. he can turn super saiyan in his kid form easily. unlike gohan need a strength to use super saiyan
Question, beyond plot armor being in play what if goku and gohan did a second time in the hyperbolic time chamber? Solo, together or different training participants. Its always been the one what if i've yet to see 👀 ❤ keep it up brother!
My theory is that the transformation initially costs goku way too much energy on activation and usage because he hadn't got used to the form yet. Freeza: 😒
My theory for ssj4 is somewhat different, I believe its more like a saiyans true perfect form, the drain on ki is so minimal goku had no idea if he could transform back meaning it feels like a base form, something unique to this transformation. Also it converts the body into its optimal fighting potential turning goku into adult and growing vegeta his tail which was the source of their strength in the saiyan saga. Finally signature moves were strengthend in the form also x10 kamehameha for example. Cool form though definitely my fav but shame the rest of GT was meh
what makes lifting something so much more impressive than destroying it is that you have to lift everything, concentrated onto your hands. Meanwhile for Ki Blasts it just vaporizes it, it doesn’t need everything focused onto your hands at once
Weird, but cool. Weird in the it looks kind of odd, cool in concept. Would have preferred it if it was basically just mixing Super Saiyan and Oozaru, but he looks like his base form. As in the ultimate Saiyan doesn't take on any physical changes in terms of appearance. He's just containing it all perfectly in his body. Kind of like SSG, but without the red hair, and just keeping his normal muscle mass without looking like he just got out of the hospital after a 7 year stay in a coma.
>SSJ4 >J No. >4 Also, no. >weird Very. A random design even with the influence referenced. Magical attire and all. NOTE: Unearned by Gokek, too. Double dip case. Total nonsense that should have caused other Golden Oozaru early if not this form. Only Vegeta even partially 'achieved' it. Nobody needs SS, a tail or a moon for it. Silly.
Is Super Saiyan 4 even a Super Saiyan transformation? All other Super Saiyan transformations seem to be about spilling large amounts of Ki to increase a Saiyan's bio-metric efficiency thus upping their power output and the light show that goes with it being the aura / lightning. Super Saiyan 4 is a true physical transformation that literally changes the physiology of the Saiyan. This comes off to me as a primal, perfected base form rather than a Super Saiyan transformation. This would definitely explain the high Ki control and why Goku can maintain the form even when his Ki is clearly at rock bottom in the glass cut scene. It could also mean you could potentially go Super Saiyan while in Super Saiyan 4 form. Unfortunately Dragon Ball GT did not last long enough for us to find out if that is where they were going.
I think they restored him to his “adult body” full power. As a kid he could transform to SSJ4 but due to his base form: Kid Goku, which is a NERFED Goku, he was not Full Power SSJ4. So as an adult, Goku would not need a boost from the other Saiyans.
I Feel Super Saiyan 4 Is A Form After Ultra Instinct Yall Have To Remember The GT Arc Happens After The Super Arc And How Uub Is Writing In Super In The Moro Arc In The Manga It’s No Coincidence That Super Saiyan 4 Is The Strongest Form Out Goku Forms
Btw theoretically the power sharing is infinite enegy glitch You can give your multuplied power to someones base to then multiply it and give it you back basically A1 is 10 B1 is 10 A1 goes ssj so is 500 and is A2 A2 gives his power to B1 B1 IS 510 B1 goes ssj so 25500 and is B2 And then B2 gives its power to A2 And A2 now base is 25500 X2550 stronger than A1 base a few seconds ago
if you think about it. gt goku's adaptation is probabbly where the idea from ui came from and the refuleing goku scenes is probabbly where the god ritual came from and by extention where god and blue came from.
It’s a cool form but I don’t look at it as a super saiyan form. If you look at the lore, it’s more or less just another base form that harnesses the chaotic potential of an oozaru form. It would be cool if was treated like that and used that logic as a catalyst for other forms. Imagine if we had a gold super saiyan 4 or even a gold super saiyan 4 with long hair similar to ssj3. I think the coolest thing would be a super saiyan 4 blue or UI.
Anyone thats continually impressed & excited about "new" forms based on hair/eye colour & aura changes are pretty simple easily pleased window lickers. GT was a mess but SSJ4 is the best ever form created. Something totally new yet incorporating saiyan great ape lore, yeah I'll take that over red, blue, green, pink or purple hair updates. So called fans shouldn't be so happy with the laziest design changes the artists can muster.
I wish dragon ball had better and consistent lifting feats, it doesnt make sense to me how they could easily destroy planets, solar sistems and galaxies yet goku struggled to lift 40 tons, i think that the man that almost destroyed the universe while fighting beerus should be able to lift hundreds of thousands of tons
i like to think super full power sayan 4 or whatever is actually like 90% of the way to supersayan god stacked on ssj4 because the recharge is soooo similar to an actual super sayan god ritual. sure the god ritual wasn't around yet but zenkais weren't around when goku fought tao and we now now that was a zenkai boost. another way to look at it that boosts ssj4 to over super is if you view gt as being post super, then the adaptability hacks goku has in gt havilly implies base form ui and ui in ssj4. meaning goku vs omega shentron is actually ui ssj4 which means ssj4 shadowdragon >>>>>>> mui goku from top
I see it was the true ss i like the blonde hair but the ape looking black furry hair is just like the ultimate ss you cannot discard the ape form it’s who they are if no ss4 no real ultimate ss
Tbh ss4 only looks cool, besides that it doesn't really hold up if im honest, ive been over ss4 since budokai 3. Even ss3 has better on-screen feats and thats kinda sad.... yall need to take off them nostalgia glasses
I really hate that they okay gave us 1 new transformation for goku and vegeta in dragon ball gt and to me it was pretty boring to watch him use ssj4 most of the arcs they could’ve atleast gave us a ssj 5 or something like that cause it’s funny to me how they gave us only ssj4 in gt as a new transformation a transformation that we never seen but in db super they gave us like 8 new transformations we never seen
It makes sense that the requirements for this form is: -User to have entered powerful forms of Super Saiyan -Have natural biology of Saiyan Because it's not stated that this form is known by Saiyans so it's clear that it's a experimental kind of form and Goku and Vegeta have obtained very powerful forms of Super Saiyan. Form being a hybrid of Ozaru and Super Saiyan definitely still works with this idea.
That's why Broly in DBS is our only Hope for the "Super Saiyan 4" Transformation to make it his own personal Exclusive Form like the Ultra Forms that Goku and Vegeta have, even Gohan's own Exclusive Beast Form, So that's why "Super Saiyan 4" needs to make a Resurgence back into Dragon Ball Universe again.
I always believed that SSJ4 is Ōzaru x SSJ3 + TEMPORARILY Awakened Potential, Ōzaru being x10 (possibly more since Goku absorbed a ritz Waves from the Earth instead of the Moon), SSJ3 being x400 (I personally believe that it’s MORE than that cause I believe that Goku had mastered the form by the start of GT) than Goku’s potential which is unknown (imagine if Goku had gotten the Majin Boost and that would be the INITAL boost but he’d passively grow in strength like as if Elder Guru had unlocked his potential) so because of this, the multiplier is unique to who ever used it so people like Broly & Gohan would have a bigger multiplier than Goku & Vegeta.
I like all the other videos especially when showing GT and End of Z respect. However trying to talk or calculate power levels is always kinda cringe. Power levels have been constantly shown to be pointless to try to calculate since Saiyan Saga. Vegeta mentioned scouters were pointless as Kakarot could conceal his true power level. Then on Namek the powers were blowing up scouters especially when Goku went Super Saiyan and it blowing up scouters on Frieza henchmen’s ship. Then in Androids Saga Dr. Gero claimed he could estimate his powers and their natural growth and Goku told them that they chose to omit a very important part of his life by not covering the battles they had in space and when he went Super Saiyan the power level calculating got thrown out the window. That’s how I feel every time power level calculation comes up, it’s just subjective fluff to be thrown out the window. But on the subject on windows I like and agree with you on how Goku showcased masterful strength and Ki control because he could have easily pushed that building too hard causing the glass to shatter or the building to collapse. Personally, I always felt the reason he got cut by glass is the same reason a strong martial artist that can easily break through wooden logs all day long is still not immune to getting a splinter or a paper cut. You can see these guys break through wood, bricks, and all sorts of stuff without taking damage yet if something small and sharp gets ya just right you can still get a splinter or paper cut. If it would’ve done serious damage that would’ve been sus but getting a slight cut from something sharp isn’t far fetched. The one that always bothered me was Goku getting shot all the way through by an energy beam laser from a generic Frieza henchman I Super. The same kind of blast Future Trunks was effortlessly backhanding away. Goku’s also taken a direct shot not by just a hand blaster but by Frieza’s Death Beam to his face on Namek when Frieza yelled “why can’t I hit you?” And Goku said “you didn’t say please.” If he can take a Death Beam to the chin no problem you’d assume 20 years full of training later he shouldn’t be getting fatally shot by a generic blaster. It’s pretty much just up to the writer and isn’t the first time they wrote something about Goku stupidly. At least he isn’t a recovering rape victim in GT like in Super when he has 2 sons yet claims he’s never kissed his wife before. Or like the recent DB Super manga where he forgot who his granddaughter Pan was yet he’s seen her several times at this point. The writing for Goku has always been dumb but DB/Z/GT kept things far more consistent than Super.
Yo Saiyan Scholars I just thought of something. Remember what you said about the Weights Goku was using in OtherWorld and How Inconsistent there are in DragonBall Z. Well if you factor the 40 tons weights that Goku is lifting and the fact he was working out on Grand Kai’s planet whose gravity I bet or believe is equal too King Kai’s planet being 10 times heavier than earths gravity. So should Goku be lifting around 400 tons while working out on Grand Kai planet.
