Ok, here are the facts behind this video and since a lot of people seem to cast judgment before really understanding my situation (or even asking clarifying questions before commenting rudely) I left that morning around 10am - the weather forecast was that snow would stop around 11am and had a 35% chance of snow in the evening around 5 or 6pm. The temps were not to drop below freezing until 9pm. I called ahead to my dealer and asked if the weather was bad, reported they only had a few sprinkles in the morning, but nothing since. The trip would have only taken me maybe 3-4 hours to complete, and that's if I really took my time, average is 3 hours. I departed. When I got to Roanoke, snow was still pretty light and not threatening as it was not really sticking to the ground, and temps were still above 37°F - by all accounts still safe to ride. That's when the 12v issue started, thankfully I was still able to level 3 charge the bike even though I had a 12v error. I took the battery out, put it on a trickle charger for an hour, but still didn't work. That's when I called an Uber to return the parts and see if my dealer had any spare 12v lithium ion batteries - they didn't . One of the techs gave me a spare tool kit (one in the video) and I caught another Uber back to the bike (VW dealership). Now this dealership was very pro-EV, and the lead service manager let me park the bike in the warming bay. This was now around 2-3pm, and the snow was starting to pick up (against weather predictions). At this point, I was still hopeful that I could make it home - and that's all I wanted to do, get home. I could give two licks about subscribers, views, likes etc - so please don't apply this thinking that every person making videos is after these metrics. I just enjoy riding and telling stories through my videos - something I've done since a child. I finally got the battery up and running, and left for home around 4. When I hit the central highlands, between Roanoke and Lexington, that's when the conditions got really bad. Unfortunately there really isn't anything out there. There is one hotel near Natural Bridge, however it was seemingly shut. Emergency crews were already dispatched in the whole valley, and towing crews were picking up cars constantly (many drove by me with cars on the backs). So let me assure you that had I another choice in the matter, I would have stopped. However stopping would have meant that now I"m just sitting out in the cold. Riding, I can at least make progress to get home, of which I was supposed to pick up my daughter that evening and dinner was waiting on me. I think anyone can appreciate the feeling of just wanting to get home - especially after trying to fix the 12v battery and get back on the road. Next time you cast judgement at someone, at least put yourself in their shoes - I don't think anyone would have done anything differently were they in my shoes. I made decisions with the info I had at the time - sometimes things go unexpectedly wrong and you have to adapt. Thankfully as the conditions worsened, I slowed my rate of movement and was going relatively slow when I fell. I was wearing full technical gear from head to toe, and felt nothing on impact. My shoulder was sore the day after, but something akin to working out - some slight superficial bruising from the D3O armor hardening on impact, but otherwise perfectly fine. I can't put everything contextual in the video, as I can't forecast how people will interpret the story after I upload, as some elements just don't move the story forward. So before making rash judgements about my actions - ask to understand before speaking to judge.
😆 well weather predictions were 35% snow in the evening, and snow was supposed to stop when I left. Had I not had a 12v issue, would have been home by 2-3pm, well before bad conditions.
I have the utmost respect for people that really get their money's worth from the ish they buy. You, sir, are a road warrior. You could be sitting home watching the news and planning a "first of the year" Spring ride. So many "riders" will avoid riding just because of what could possibly go wrong when the weather isn't perfect. "Utoh, it's slightly overcast and 59°, maybe we should wait until next year." You're out there learning your bike's REAL WORLD capabilities, turning wrenches, going off road, experience the realities of public EV charging, problem solving, etc. As the saying goes: Plan your Op(eration). Then Op your plan. Well done.
It's not an adventure until something goes wrong. Appreciate the kind words! I can assure it's not something I'll be doing again during the winter, lol, but if it happens again without warning, I've got some experience now to tell me to just get a damn hotel room!
@@AdventuresonZero I've had to use my engine heat to warm my hands and face a few time. Picture what that looks like on the side of the road. I leaned that chaps isn't just a fashion statement, they were a necessity. I've pushed my bike in a few motel rooms to keep it out of the weather, spend hours under overpasses, been pelted with hail to scare me, road into a Tornado and had to abandon my bike and hide in an dilapidated out of service park bathroom, ran out of gas and slept on my bike a few times in the middle nowhere. What does not kill you... I had the time of my life and I will go to my grave with no regrets on two wheels.
Im not religious but I listen to signs i see every day. That battery issues that you kept bypassing/ trying to solve was a sign to not take that ride home to avoid that crash. I would have left the bike at that dealer and then posted up at a hotel or called a friend.
I actually had that thought the day after - a hedge protection. Wife and I discussed contingencies and ‘no ride’ conditions/criteria when I got home. I just launched a patreon page, which will go towards building an emergency fund to cover expenses when things like this happen (which are often). If I had something like that, I likely would have gotten a room in Roanoke
Yeah I think you found the limits of the LiveWire. You could get yourself a snowbike kit with the ski and track for the back adapt it to the One and have the fastest electric snowbike on the internet! Glad you made it back in one piece, more or less.
I have two thoughts...First, this is a great video. As a creator, you did a great job. It's a different kind of topic, a good adventure and it's very well filmed and presented. A+ for a RU-vid video! Second, you're an idiot for riding around in a snowstorm.
Thanks for the warm up and then slap 😆 had I known that 35% chance would have turned into 100% - I wouldn’t have gone. Even still, 12v issues delayed me. I would have been home by 2pm, well before temps dropped
As for the 12V being low - I recall discussions over at the LWForum that the Lithium 12V battery won't get charged below a certain temperature (~32°F/0°C) because it would get damaged in the process...
Dunno about the 12v, but the RESS on LW1 and S2 Del Mar won’t let you charge if the pack is 32 or below. Even though I was riding, the RESS was still at 32 because of how slow I was going.
Well, that was a bit too far, Ben. Instead of “Adventures On Zero,”you are now “Adventures Below Zero.” And the whole time, through all of that crud and pain, you keep videoing so you can show it to us. You are too much - thanks for posting.
Man I could feeeeel how cold it was through your video! You're a master of suspense, too. Holy crap my heart was pounding the whole way through. Why didn't Harley/Livewire design it so the HV battery is always keeping the 12V battery topped up? Why would it only charge while it's rolling? That seems like an easy thing to set up. Also, that was insane. You're insane. Thank you for being insane :D
All of Harley bikes are like that, and as far as I know, pretty much any 12v battery gets charged by the motor/engine? It's kind of like poking a hole in the bottom of a bucket the that lets out 1/2 cup of water, and then trying to fill the bucket with a 1/4 cup scoop (I know this isn't physically/mechanically correct, just trying to illustrate the point, lol). 12v monitor should be on the LW1 - thankfully the S2 Del Mar has it.
Yes, because with internal combustion engine, it spins a rotor to generate electricity. Here the electricity it's given by the 400 V battery. It's not going to be recharged by the DC current converted into AC to power the motor stator spinning the rotor to... generate electricity on another stator to convert it back from AC to DC? 😂 That's just extra steps, and energy losses. In cars the 12 V exists for safety reasons, doors and communication systems are still powered while the main battery is disconnected in case of incident or other problems. The 12 V is constantly fed, basically it's like an UPS, constantly connected to the grid but ready to provide its stored energy in case of emergency. You may notice that a bike doesn't have doors to unlock, so I'm not even sure why they have it. Energica doesn't. I would guess it's technically more efficient to have direct 12 V instead of stepping down 400 V constantly, but then you still need to charge it, so you still loose efficiency.
That makes sense. Zero was that way as well, however someone recently commented that the new models 2024(?) now have 12v batteries. As with anything, there are trade offs for every decision made at the design phase - just picking your poison at that time. Some people are losing their minds over the 12v stuff, and I'm just trying to see what the limitations/applications are on the bike. 100% my military mind at work, use stuff till it fails, then come up with steps on how to resolve it, and then share it with everyone so it doesn't happen to others. I want to know the conditions of failure so that others can avoid it, but also know how to fix it should they find themselves in a bind. Only a fool would say I don't love livewire, and I just want everyone else to enjoy the platforms as much as I do. Appreciate your insight!!!
Another thing that I've thought while watching the video but I forgot to write: you have the alarm, that's a reason alone for the battery tender, the thing consumes a lot of power, relative speaking, so when the bike is off you constantly have a parasite load that makes a difference on the long run. As for newer Zero having it, it's probably for the same reason. I've checked, efficiency for a good step down converter from 400 V to 12 V is about 97%, so not that bad (again, consider that the bike will still need to recover when running, you still lose that 3%). I think Energica goes without it for 2 reasons: 1 - racing. You don't need that weight. You don't even need to run lights. 2 - racing 😂 Makes sense to design a platform without that at all, simpler and less expensive bike overall. Converting battery charge to mileage, 3% on Energica on my happy throttle use is ~5 km of range. So a buffer is not making a difference as lights are always on when riding, they are the main power draw and a 12 V battery alone won't last long without a constant supply from the main, so that loss is there with any EV really. So in reality it's probably less than 0,5 km, if any real measurable benefit exist, if not outweighed by the battery weight.
Glad to see you made it back. I know the struggles, I rode from San Francisco CA to Portland Oregon one time and it started snowing.. Pretty sketchy stuff.
I was going off weather predictions, which when I left said 35% chance that evening. Even then I wasn't anticipating the 12v issue, which delayed my departure. Had that not happened, I would have been home by 2-3pm, well in time before temps dropped.
So the weather that morning when I left was only a small chance of snow in the evening, was supposed to quit an hour after I left home. Had the 12v battery not given me issues, I would have made it home by 2-3pm while the roads were still ridable.
Look, I get it, you love riding, as do I, also electric. But this is like trying to paint a wall with your favorite no.2 pencil - at some point you just have to admit it's the wrong tool for the task, no matter how much you love it.@@AdventuresonZero
What do I mean? You put your life in danger, and damage/age your equipment for a ride I would argue you didn't even enjoy all that much. Some trips are car trips, face it, man.@@AdventuresonZero
It's been a bit icy in Paris. I keep my Livewire in sports mode and just ride very slowly and carefully and in general the ice is gone by 10am. But no bike is really designed for those conditions! You're braver than me!
@@AdventuresonZero I actually stuck some Michelin road 4s on and it makes all the difference. Got to have a mudguard made as no aftermarket one exists! But it's still a great weapon through tight urban traffic 😊
@@AdventuresonZero I asked for the 6, newest model, and had the 5 on a Triumph Trident, but the said the 4 were perfect. I'm not sure there's much of a difference but they're all great 👍
Should have tapped the brakes slightly, just idling your tires are totally unloaded, putting abit of load on the front with slight braking may have helped a bit, but hindsight is always 20/20. When it's THAT slick the regen will kick your ass too along with the abs trying to figure out wtf when nothing seems to be working to regain traction.
I attempted lightly hitting the brakes initially, however the patches of ice were pretty inconsistent in that spot. I actually fish tailed for a few hundred feet. It would fish tail, then stop, fish tail, then stop. I was in the act of slowing down so I could waddle the bike down this hill, but when I hit about 15mph, that's when it fish tailed too much to recover. Although I ride with full regen, my hand is pretty much trained now to feather it pretty accurately, I also know the sweet spot to neither accelerate or regen brake. When I was fishtailing, I had let off the throttle and was trying to feather everything, but it ended up going down anyways.
@@AdventuresonZero Sometimes that's just your destiny, you know it's coming, just try to position yourself to make it as soft and less damaging as possible to the bike. Once you start sliding that's a problem, and while we'd love to pretend you stop sliding and get traction again is a savior, it can also be a much BIGGER problem. Especially when your rear wheel is about 30 degrees off to the side when traction returns. :) The important thing is you didn't get hurt. On your battery. Seriously, a plug in, leave on battery tender is a savior not sure where you live, but batteries plus DBT021-0123 part number, just as an example. You can literally bolt it to the battery and it has a little wire you can sneak just about anywhere, you pull the bike in plug the cable in and your 12v is taken care of.
@@aarons7975 Yep! I thought going down the hill, as long as my rear tire is directly behind my front, I'm good. But at a certain point, nothing I could really do but let it go down. Thankfully by that point I had slowed down quite a bit. Didn't feel a thing when I hit, ghost armor did a really good job, as did my Belstaff gear. I'm setting contingencies in place now to ensure I'm well supported going forward with Patreon. Unless me staying put is more dangerous than leaving, I'll get a hotel room. Is that part number with an SAE connector? that was my next move after I repair the bike, is to bolt on a SAE lead to both 12v on my bikes and just leave them plugged in during the winter months.
@@AdventuresonZero It has ring connectors, you bolt them to the battery and a little 2 wire plug sticks out from under a seat or wherever you hid it at, that the plug on the other side, on the charger,you just plug it in. When you go riding, you just tuck that little 2 inch piece of wire back up under where it was hiding. Even if you go with lead acid and a lith main battery, the two chems, while normally it's not a good idea to mix like that, in this case, the voltages overlap that the charger will keep BOTH in decent shape w/o killing one or the other
Hey Ben i know on my livewire one there is a power port. I was looking at my wifes del mar and couldnt find one. We are trying to get her slip on heated grips. Is there a port on the del mar
port? There is a Parts & Accessories plug underneath the seat that you can use to power up stuff. You'd have to run a wire from that, through the tank farings, to the steering assembly: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--Hr5MdFNbBY.html
Also, on the Del Mar, the USB-C port is at the front of the tank faring near the “S2 Del Mar” logo, underneath a little rectangular rubber cap. Not sure if that’s what you meant by port
Wow! Ice-road on a heavy Livewire! You are a crasy nut too! Just kidding! 🙂 Those tires-are they marked with snow or ice? Probably not, as I can't think of any "snow" tires for motorcycles. You could put spikes on them if you really want winter-triller rides. A Swedish rider (YT: Let’s Ride! with Bikerida), she took her Harley with spikes to Nordkapp (the northernmost point in Norway or Europe).
Dang Son! I’ve been a silent watcher of yours for a while now, but I felt compelled to finally make a comment after this video. I applaud your willingness to share something that is so controversial. I hope you don’t ride in weather like this again brother. Take care of yourself.
Well I appreciate you coming out from under the bridge, lol! Trust me, I don't want to ride in something like that again, but at least now I have more experience to handle it should it happen again.
I would say that having the main bike charged and a vital 12 V battery not being tendered is bad design. I hope they learn the lesson and fix it for newer models (if not with an update). And I would lie if I said I've never had a problem with batteries on Harley Davidson. The tender is mandatory, even if you use it every day, simply because the engines are so big and the starter motor draw a lot of power. I just didn't expect it to be even for an electric one. Let's see the next adventure, this time with all the proper tools! :D
Yep, I think I'm going to have a tender lead permanently on the batteries now - just to make it easier to trickle charge them when at home or in the wild
I love live wire but come on now not even Tesla cars be out in the cold frozen slippery roads better alone not even gas motorcycles are out I bet those people who helped you , looked at you crazy. Be careful don’t have to prove to anybody that the bike is durable just to risk your own life . Consider yourself lucky . Even with safety precautions it’s still risky … another thing I saw you ride all the way to the right side of the rode where all the ice and debris are at . Always stay near the yellow lines not the middle or far right . It’s more cleaner and safer .
I can assure you I rode only where I had the most traction - sometimes it was near a yellow line, other times not. Mother nature and salt crews would have to disagree with your assessment on safest part of the road my friend
@@AdventuresonZero very well said but I haven’t dropped my bike yet I mean even in MSF classes tell you it’s not safe on the edges of the road but then again who’s riding in the icy roads anyways .
I’m a fellow rider but… I’m gonna be honest man… You riding in those conditions is foolish but most importantly selfish… Your wife was worried for good reason. Your “want” to ride your bike should never supersede your “need” to be there for your wife and family. There’s simply not a single good excuse. The outcome was exactly what your wife was worried about. What if someone else got hurt or worse trying to help you after your accident…? And for what…? Your bike is worse off now than it was before… Glad you’re okay… but man… Some disappointing decisions were made…
There is never a need to ride a motorcycle - it’s only utility is enjoyment, never function or necessity, so not sure where you’re coming from. Had the 12v not given me issue, I would have been home by 2-3 pm, well before the roads were in bad condition. Thanks dad!
