No video :(

SUSPICIOUS ALL-AROUND SHENANIGANS • 1991 WORLDS

Подписаться 3,7 тыс.

Просмотров 12 тыс.

50% 1

#robbedgoddess #svetlanaboginskaya #kimzmeskal
The 1991 World Gymnastics Championships were only the second time the sport's most prestigious meet had been held outside of Europe and in the United States, which had been only been growing stronger in terms of results and influence--mostly thanks to Hungarian-Romanian defector Bela Karolyi.
Bela had created a temple of sorts at his ranch in Texas, and so strong was his influence that many American gymnasts felt no choice but to train with him if they wanted future big assignments.
By 1991, Bela had already coached Nadia Comaneci and Mary Lou Retton to the ultimate prize in women's artistic gymnastics - the Olympic all-around gold medal.
However, he had yet to coach a World all-around champion. But in Indy, his pupil, the two-time reigning US National champion Kim Zmeskal, looked to be his best bet.
Today we re-judge the Top 5 finishers in the 1991 Worlds all-around--Soviets Svetlana Boginskaya and Tatiana Gutsu, Americans Betty Okino and Kim Zmeskal, and Romanian Cristina Bontaș.
This meet was a crazy ride full of questionable judging, suspicious shenanigans, and potentially pre-determined results. Please enjoy this whale 🐳of a video!
Please consider becoming a Patron at /www.patreon.com/thesovgc
You can buy me a coffee at www.buymeacoff...
Please follow me on Instagram at / thesovgc
And check out my gymnastics website where you can read every essay I've ever written about the sport, including multiple meet recaps from the late 80s: thesovgc.wordp...

Опубликовано:

26 авг 2024

Ссылка:

Скачать:

Готовим ссылку...

Добавить в:

Мой плейлист

Посмотреть позже

Комментарии : 207

@strongbad635 6 месяцев назад

1991 and 1992 represented the pinnacle of why the 10.0 system doesn’t work. Routines of wildly different difficulty levels all started from a 10.0, forcing judges into all kinds of mental and emotional shenanigans to try and differentiate routines so everyone didn’t just tie. I can see the case for Boguinskaia or Zmeskal winning, and the home country crowd probably made a difference. Under an open-ended code, Gutsu possibly could’ve won this one!

@mmoran3 6 месяцев назад

100% agreed! Higher Difficulty could not be rewarded. A stock routine could score the same as a routine that had triple the Difficulty level. Scores were only decided by who had less execution errors.

@rolandgreen7484 5 месяцев назад

Under an open ended code Boginskaya destroys Zmeskal as her D scores would be the same or higher (Zmeskal didn't even have anymore difficulty than Boginskaya, LOL) and her E scores would be way lower than Boginskaya other than maybe on vault where they would be about the same. And yes Gutsu could probably win under an open code as her D scores would be way ahead.

@misstekhead 2 месяца назад

I’m late in commenting on your video, but I have a fun anecdote that was told to me about Betty Okino. I grew up in Houston and got to know a lot of people within the gymnastics scene throughout the 90’s. Apparently, Betty is part Romanian and the Karolyis had to switch to speaking Hungarian around her because they didn’t realize she understood Romanian. I used to hang out at the Karolyi gym as they used to have what was commonly known as “open gym” where almost anyone could show up for a few hours. There were two separate areas for the elites and the rest of us. When Dominique Moceanu had her own gym her dad tried recreating the same thing. Separate areas for the elites and everyone else. That’s a whole story unto itself. I actually attended that gym for a few months and it was a mess.

@nickmann9549 6 месяцев назад

How Kim Zmeskal received the same UB as Lysenko or Gutsu is beyond me! They had essentially flawless and difficult routines...and she did not.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

👏 👏 👏 Two words: "a joke"!

@strongbad635 6 месяцев назад

The only issue I had with Gutsu was her flexed back on every DLO dismount, but they just allowed bad positions on everything from splits to forced feet to bent knees with no deductions. The 80s and 90s were fucking WILD.

@mmoran3 6 месяцев назад

I love Gutsu but for some reason and this is my subjective opinion but I always thought her form especially her feet were a bit sloppy, however with that being said, her difficulty/daredevil stunts were amazing

@nickmann9549 6 месяцев назад

@@mmoran3 I think she had much improved form in 1992.

@dkasper3267 6 месяцев назад

Shaddy things happening all the time. I know this is about the worlds but Gutsu did not even qualify for the Olympic all around but competed because her team mate Rosa G. Suddenly was ill or injured. I have to say yes I think Zmeskal's bar was no where near the competition. Her release moves are low, she has both form and rhythm breaks and the dismount not up the speed.

@sidoniesera 6 месяцев назад

This one was AWESOME, Wally! It's been so cool to watch your evolution and growth as a content creator and I think this latest video really showcases all of that. I only ever saw this competition YEARS ago on home video, so I knew the results but none of the details. I still love that Bogi rewore her leotard from the 89 World AA comp. Totally a "remember me, b!tches? That's right--the reigning world champ," moment. Would actually love to ask her if that was a flex on her part, or a "this is my lucky leo" moment. Can't wait to see more Wally. As always, be well!

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you for being so supportive and sweet as always!! 😘

@victorbeauregarde1502 6 месяцев назад

EPIC VIDEO. Zmeskal was definitely gifted this title and it should have been Bogi's.

@lindaselander9602 3 месяца назад

Delusional!

@cathleensmallwood4120 6 месяцев назад

so, ok... after all these years this was the one that really made me hesitant to take off the lid and look inside as even on the day the crime was committed the stink of corruption was so foul i could hardly stand it. 30 some years later and this rotted mess looks and smells even worse. The true strength of an all round champion is that across four events she has no weaknesses, which isnt to say that some events cant be stronger than others. Looking both back into the past and forward into the future from this competition how many times have we seen all round champions win medals on their least strongest event? Many! there should have been yellow crime scene tape wrapped around the podium. Wally, as always your analysis and scoring here was spot on. I probably would have tied Gutsu and Bontas for the silver and had Zmeskal in fourth here as difficulty must be recognized. but anyways, thank you for being willing to visit this cold case file.

@gmanandhislady 6 месяцев назад

I don't want to watch the 92 US Nationals again because Karolyi, seeing that his own athlete, Kerri Strug (albeit not his golden girl) was winning over Zmeskal, had her water down her dismount on the UB at the very end--so Zmeskal could win. It was so messed up. I don't blame Zmeskal, because Karolyi was doing everything for her, to ensure her win. There were a lot of tense times between him and Zmeskal in that time period. It was so corrupt. I'm glad Shannon Miller was just quietly doing her thing in the background of the Karolyi girls, and brought home all of those medals from Barcelona that she absolutely deserved. I do feel bad for the Karolyi girls though because it wasn't their fault for his behavior. That's just my opinion. Bogi was definitely robbed in this meet!

@kubrickfan 6 месяцев назад

That was the 1991 Nationals.

@rexjdk 6 месяцев назад

I hated that Bela did that to Kerri. It was so not fair.

@mmoran3 6 месяцев назад

@@kubrickfan1992 nationals

@frosina69 6 месяцев назад

And steel Strug got the gold for USA Atlanta 1996 even was injured. She didn't stood up him

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

I thought it was 1991 too. But I only recently watched 89-92 Nationals last year

@jfgs930 6 месяцев назад

Loved this video. I have to commend you, I’m more well versed in figure skating than gymnastics, but as a judge/commentator you do exceptionally well at keeping things by the book and factual, while only injecting your opinion where appropriate.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Awww thank you so much!! 💗

@reneepeters3045 6 месяцев назад

Wally, I have enjoyed you since you started this channel and am really just so proud and happy for how far you’ve come. I just love your videos and this one is just a gem💎 your hard work is obvious and it pays off. Thank you for what you do ❤

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Awww thank you so much for the kind words! I really appreciate it! 💗

@WhiteBear2024 4 месяца назад

Great job, Wally! Although I don't agree with every single thing you said here, I just love your passion for the sport -- and that is where I believe we all meet. Thank you so much for your work!

@sallydaniel1023 6 месяцев назад

Great job, Wally 😊 I remember watching this meet many times, and I agree with your assessment that Bogi was robbed. Kim's bars score is baffling. There's no way she should've gotten the same score as Gutsu and Lysenko

@lindadeeds5326 8 дней назад

I’ve never really understood judging in gymnastics, but you break it down so well. The Olympic commentators should invite you to join them!

@georgiadonald1588 6 месяцев назад

That was Wally gold! You are 100% right. Very informative. Terrific video 👏

@lovethat4u 6 месяцев назад

This “post” was a legit documentary. So well done, Walls!!’ I loved all of it.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you so much, love! 💗

@mauromastrogiacomo4080 6 месяцев назад

I am same age as Bogi, and active gymnast in Italy at the time. This final was a trauma for my generation of gymnasts. It not only made us hate politics in gymnastics even more, but we all took it as a representation of US arrogance and imperialism in sports … off my chest after 30 years! feels so good … thanks Wally!

@rexjdk 6 месяцев назад

Not blaiming Boganskya (One of my favs) but the Soviet Union wrote the book on arrogance in Gymnastics.

@danielgoncalves5499 6 месяцев назад

@@rexjdkbut I believe most of the time they were so much better that they could afford that arrogance 😅

@SDoesNotKnow 6 месяцев назад

US learned arrogance and imperialism from their colonist forefathers in Europe.

@metaphoricallyspeaking45 6 месяцев назад

I’m Canadian, it is a breath of fresh air reading a foreign experience.

@mauromastrogiacomo4080 6 месяцев назад

Sure, those like Nelli Kim are the quintessence of misconduct in judging! But one should at least try to be better than that!

@FigureNastics 6 месяцев назад

Wonderfully done, Wally!! I honestly couldn't agree more with your assessment!

@emilyhunter4825 6 месяцев назад

I would have laughed about the Kim Gwang Suk bars comment, because it blew away everyone else’s by far but also the age-falsification that her federation kept blatantly repeating taints her placement result. Then I remembered that she had to go back to North Korea and experience that gruesome, prolonged famine and I want to give her any bit of joy possible 😢 There’s one EXTREMELY significant external event that certainly had an impact on the politicking between judges at ‘91 Worlds - the August coup attempt that came close enough to ousting Gorbachev that it led to the dissolution of the USSR by the end of the year. Worlds took place 2 weeks after the failed coup and all of a sudden the resources that previously could be used as leverage over other federations were in question, while the status of the USA, the host nation, was on the rise. I’d love to see an analysis someday from judges who were serving at that comp, similar to the 2002 Olympic scandal.

@Jesse-gx7mn 2 месяца назад

After all these years, I finally understand why she folded at the 92' Olympics the following year, Kim wasn't as good as I thought.

@JLFAN2009 14 дней назад

Kim suffered a last-minute injury before Barcelona -- a stress fracture which forced her to remove her most difficult tricks, thereby causing her scores to suffer.

@jennalaine2993 11 дней назад

Kim did a whip through to double layout and ended with a full twisting double pike on floor at Olympic Trials. She was incredible. It’s amazing she completed at the Olympic Games at all with that stress fracture in her leg.

@MzKaylcC 6 месяцев назад

IM SO HAPPY WALLY , IT MAKAYLA AND IM GOING TO WATCH FROM BOTH MY CHANNELS

@ctbozzzz 6 месяцев назад

I love this! Well done. The 0-10 scoring era saw soooooo many medals incorrectly assigned. I do remember feeling Shannon Miller was robbed at the ‘92 Olympics, but that was my own bias. In rewatching the routines, Gutsu was by far the most exciting. She had incredible difficulty and did everything to the maximum (compare her UB routine with Shannon’s).

@vipermommy1931 6 месяцев назад

this channel is such a gem

@thesovgc 5 месяцев назад

💋

@charlestoddsullivanforpres6628 6 месяцев назад

Dude....very good video. This was obviously a lot of work. Kudos to you. It would be interesting to hear what Svetlana has to say, today. I think I mentioned in another video, her being asked about this by some creepy French guys on a TV show where she appeared with Nelli Kim.

@MrMartinportnoy 6 месяцев назад

Thanks a lot for the shout out, Wally - I'm flattered 😭 Looking for Karayev's Path of Thunder was a nice adventure! This was a very sad World Championship which bid farewell to the Soviet team - the end of an era... And congratulations on your analysis, so interesting and enlightening as always! 😁💫

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you so much for finding the music 🙏! I can't tell you how agonizing it had been to not be able to properly attribute a routine I loved so much for three decades!!

@MrMartinportnoy 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc 💜😁

@stevensmith8242 6 месяцев назад

I grew up loving zmeskal....and then hit a certain age and I was like....how did she win all those meets lol 😆 something smells fishy....like salmon off the smoker!

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

😂😂😂

@KaiOpaka 6 месяцев назад

Oh, those network fluff pieces for Kim were behind that. We can't be held responsible. The emotional manipulation was real.

@christianaguilera1469 5 месяцев назад

Moments like these always makes me cringe when Worlds are held at in the United States. As an American I have no problem calling out the blatant bias when it comes to American gymnasts in international competitions on American soil. That is why I don't take the American Cup seriously.

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

The cancelation of the American Cup post Covid is truly one of the best recent developments in gymnastics.

@em_mkay 6 месяцев назад

you’re hilarious Wally. the evolution of your channel is so amazing. 91 worlds…wow..whatta competition... one of my favorite WC’s. Boginskaya is ethereal 🤗

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you! 💗 🤗

@mmoran3 6 месяцев назад

The gymnasts were so much more ahead of the scoring system. It wasnt fair for a gymnast like Gustu who had off the charts difficulty, to be scored with the same start value of a 10 as say Boginskyaya who was also scored out of a 10 with a remarkably easier routine. At first i hated when the new scoring system was introduced ,however, now i understand why. These "Robbed" videos are perfect examples.

@kubrickfan 6 месяцев назад

Your best video yet, Wally. I always feel conflicted about this meet because Boginskaya was artistically superior and yet Zmeskal is such an exciting, competent competitor. Really enjoy them both. I also don’t want to participate in the more toxic elements of this 30+ year argument in the gymnastics world. That said, I like your rankings and perhaps we can just be grateful that the 1991 Worlds showcased a variety of athletes who became legends in the sport. The beam and floor finals of this Worlds are the best ever.

@coll4455 6 месяцев назад

God i love this channel! I coach competitive high school cheerleading and our national championship just happened and the amount of politics, craziness and straight robbery in our sport right now and over the last 10 years makes me want to make a channel like this to call out all the BS going on

@dronesclubhighjinks 13 дней назад

Please do! I know very little about cheerleading but I’m always interested in behind-the-scenes drama! ❤

@AFSVS27 6 месяцев назад

I refuse to rewatch the 91” Worlds for the same reasons you’ve gone through. It just wasn’t fair to Boginskaya. She was truly robbed.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

💯. I think it made for a good video at least. I channeled my rage into something productive 😂🙏

@reeset2198 5 месяцев назад

Just to play devil's advocate: I don't know if I would call the scoring "suspicious." Judging, especially at that time, was very subjective. Scores were based more on execution than on difficulty. And there was an idea in the zeitgeist about what a great gymnast was supposed to look like, which was a girl under 5 foot tall. Keep in mind this was before the age cut off of 16, the cold war had only recently ended, and Zemeskal sorta fit the bill for all these various factors at play. I think it was less politicking on Bela's part than on a certain kind of PR, where Zemeskal fit a certain mold they were willing to promote.

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

I definitely agree that judging, particularly during this Code, was incredibly subjective. I don't agree that execution was more important than difficulty, especially in 1992. For example, at this meet (91 Worlds AA) Boginskaya's bars had much better execution than Zmeskal's, yet she got hosed and received a lower score than Kim. That is suspicious to me, considering Boginskaya had scored .05 higher during Optionals.

@blairinnyc 5 месяцев назад

Politics in gymnastics doesn't happen in a vacuum. It went on impacting many gymnasts years before this meet and in the years to follow. And it would be unfair to blame the gymnasts who had very little say back then in particular as it relates to Bela's gymnasts. I am very proud of Zmeskal's performance and so happy that she won the meet. Would have loved for Boginskaya and Zmeskal to tie for first but hey, that's about as much a fantasy as this video was for the host.

@trailrider7046 5 дней назад

Yes, it's not the gymnastics themselves who are doing the politicking, is it? As if Kim.Z. herself was actively involved in the coaches' shananagans. The gymnasts are like puppets with the coaches pulling the strings.

@nickmann9549 6 месяцев назад

Been waiting on this!!!

@mrparts 6 месяцев назад

The Soviet coaches are partially responsible for the loss of the AA world title. Their decision to leave their star gymnast, Boginskaya, with such a huge and obvious weakness in UB showed their extreme arrogance going into this competition in the US (that silly half-turn kill-all-swing drop down to the low bar was way way too basic, not to mention the lack of a second release or any substantial low bar work to cover up). It was unreasonable to expect her to win based on reputation again. Boginskaya had the ability to do much more on bars, as demonstrated by her comeback a few years later.

@TheMajesticice01 6 месяцев назад

I agree with this!

@danielgoncalves5499 6 месяцев назад

I agree so much with this… why not explore how good she could be on UB, like demonstrated in 1996? She even got the highest score on UB during euros that year I don’t get. It might’ve been something else no one knows about

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

They tried to add the Gienger at the 90 World Cup (which was beautiful), but she struggled with the rest of the routine. I agree that after this meet and in early 92, they definitely should have seen which way the wind was blowing when it came to bars.

@carolebrown2621 4 месяца назад

But Zmeskal's bar routine was garbage poop and much worse than even Boginskaya's. So it seems reasonable why they would think this, atleast if you think Kim was her main competitor. Nobody could have pretended the garbage American Cup level home cooked scoring we got here.

@Boban1611 6 месяцев назад

What a marvelous video. I've watched it this morning before going to work and it is your fault, that I was late.... 😎 I could not comment immediately, but I have to say - I really loved and enjoyed it. The scores back then where so high in my opinion. The judges didn't take their opportunities to deduct points, when it was possible. I would have had other scores and results obviously and of course - in my opinion Svetlana Boginskaja should have won the All Around Gold Medal. But even with her lucky charm (wearing her Gold winning leotard from 1989) - it didn't do her any good... and we all know the reason why.... Anyway.... congratulations to your analysis... 🥰😍😘

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you so much Boban, and all the help you constantly provide me with videos!! (I am getting ready to record my Patreon Exclusive of the 92 Olympics Beam Final, and I appreciate immensely uploading those routines for me to use!! 👏👏👏)

@Boban1611 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc Did you get all the Horse Vault Finalists?

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

No 😢. I don't think it's online in good quality.

@Boban1611 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc I am at work now. I can upload them in the evening.... but that's in about 12 hours or more. Won't be home before that. it is 7 am in Germany right now.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

@Boban1611 take your time! That video won't be for next month at least 💗

@tjexplorer 6 месяцев назад

I get hating that the scoring may have been corrupt, but how do you hate on a 15 year old who was really just a pawn in the hands of adults?

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

I tried to keep it about the gymnastics.

@BlankFormatted 6 месяцев назад

Great video ! Scoring this the same way you did (in order of performance) : Gutsu : 9.950 / 9.900 / 9.950 / 9.900 - 39.700 Okino : 9.850 / 9.900 / 9.850 / 9.900 - 39.500 Bontas : 9.950 / 9.900 / 9.800 / 9.950 - 39.600 Boginskaya : 9.950 / 9.950 / 10.000 / 9.900 - 39.800 Zmeskal : 9.950 / 9.900 / 9.900 / 9.950 - 39.700 Final ranking of the 5 discussed gymnasts : 1 : Boginskaya - 39.800 2 : Gutsu & Zmeskal - 39.700 4 : Bontas - 39.600 5 : Okino - 39.500

@brettonoverton6902 6 месяцев назад

It’s so funny to me that Gutsu wasn’t a dancer. lol. Everyone coming from the Soviet system had extensive dance training. They were just that great. Gutsu was a trickster. Loved this era of gymnastics

@lesliefoster2121 3 месяца назад

How about conducting an analysis of the 1983 European Championships all around competition? ...and 76 Montreal FX finals (and FX prelims)..very interested!

@kilandrayeuxdoux2804 6 месяцев назад

I was in the audience for this event in 1991. Being in the arena was different than it appears in the video. I remember how much drama was going into the Soviet teams floor exercise and figured that's not a good idea - very bad in fact. We need to have a compulsory event where the routine must be different and basic moves only. Advanced moves should be for 2nd round of team event & all around with the individual events having an even higher standard for routine. The dramatic floor exercises looked fake and overly practiced like the athlete hated it.

@trailrider7046 5 дней назад

How is something overly practiced when perfection is the goal?

@carolebrown2621 4 месяца назад

My scores: Bogsinakaya- vault 10, bars 9.9, beam 9.95, floor 10 Zmeskala- vault 9.95, bars 9.7 (generous), beam 9.8, floor 9.9

@ferdyspears 5 месяцев назад

Zemeskals vault in the air is super stretched. You literally overloooker Boinskayas leg cross. And im sorry it was not as stretched as Zemeskals.

@vitorhugosantana7053 6 месяцев назад

After watching all the routines in your video, I think Gutsu should have won. I love this video/doc, thank you.

@ferdyspears 5 месяцев назад

Boginskaya had her feet crossed in her vault. You know that is a deduction yet you give a 10?

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

You do know that many deductions were ignored right? For example, Zmeskal's egregious leg separation on her Gienger. I don't see where Boginskaya's legs cross. Her feet might be slightly crossed in the first part of the post flight. I'd say the chest position on the landing is a more noticeable deduction than that one.

@tattoofixerstattoos 4 месяца назад

since that era was full of imperfect 10s. If you are going to eliminate every imperfect 10 there would be no 10s or maybe only 1 a year like Silivas's compulsory floor or Miller's Barcelona AA vault, and score everyone on an entirely new scale altogether.

@ferdyspears 5 месяцев назад

Boginskaya's beam was a mess. She's lucky she even a 9.9 plus. So many artistic deductions.

@rolandgreen7484 4 месяца назад

Zmeskal's crappy beam with bad form, no artistry, and even less difficulty than Boginskaya, plus a big balance check after her gaigner layout deserved a 9.75 at best, LOL!

@erinames7783 6 месяцев назад

Short handstands were not a deduction and a 180 split was not required either. The arch flare for sure was not a deduction at the time it was actually considered mastery of the vault. As someone else said by this time the 10.0 system was not working any more and had they had the open scoring of today Gutsu probably would have won.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

They weren't taking the deductions listed. It was a free for all. I'm merely pointing out my observations and how I'm coming to my final score. Who knows how the actual judges were. (Well, I have my suspicions, clearly 😂.)

@erinames7783 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc agreed. Sometimes the difference in scores from one round to the next is because its different judges and so they score a bit differently. Its always nice to re watch these old meets.

@chigal0926 6 месяцев назад

The RU-vid algorithm has taken me to your channel. If you want the truth about the Karolyis’ I just read “Nadia Comaneci And The Secret Police.” It has just been published in English. It is eye opening. Bella and Marta ABUSED Nadia, and every other gymnast in Romania. Please read the book!!!

@danielgoncalves5499 6 месяцев назад

Gutsu was so ahead of everybody else in terms of difficulty ❤ But that floor choreography… I mean it could easily have been one of the Americans coreo… so inexpressive and even boring; nice leaps and turns though 😅

@gymjam2024 6 месяцев назад

Kim’s Bars score though 👀👀🤨🤨 and Beam 👀🤨

@twebster9498 6 месяцев назад

Really appreciate what you do. I have to take exception with some critique of Okino especially on floor. You seem to suggest you would give her a lower score based on less difficulty. If you code says it's worth a 10 it's scored from a 10. Also, I know many athletes thought they had to train with Karoyli for the political benefit, but did Brandy really need Karoyli to make the team in 1988? Gymnasts like Dawes and Miller didn't need a boost from Karoyli to make it in 1992.

@terry3872 6 месяцев назад

Yes. But in 1991 if Miller was under Karoli, she would probably score higher than Okino.

@twebster9498 6 месяцев назад

Okino had more of an international reputation than Miller in 1991. Also, Miller did outscore Okino and Zmeskal in the team competition. @@terry3872

@kellimiller4893 6 месяцев назад

I was never a big Bogi or Zmeskal fan so this competition was meh for me. Was super happy the difficulty was rewarded more appropriately at the Olympics the following year.

@lovethat4u 6 месяцев назад

Also, everything Bontas did on beam with her right foot was ethereal 😂 had she connected the mount it would have been perfection 💋

@wynterfel 6 месяцев назад

I am sure I am going to get a lot of hate for this but I thought Boginskaya was overrated. There were far more superior gymnasts than her during that time. She lacked difficulty on bars and floor. She cowboyed her double backs. The one thing I wll give her credit for is her dancing and presentation on floor. Bring on the hate.

@travellingboardingtime 2 дня назад

Zmeskal win is ridiculous just like MLR in LA Olympic

@Sashasuzuki 3 месяца назад

I agree with you. Also, men's all around 1991. Gregory won over. Vitaly was off, too.

@patrickmoreira9550 Месяц назад

While I agree that the scoring was suspicious, I still would have placed Zmeskal slightly ahead of Boginskaya. Though, had she hit her beam routine, I would have had Gutsu easily in first.

@sidoniesera 6 месяцев назад

So...I didn't notice it on first watch, but it looks like Zmeskal threw a back handspring ON the podium while Karolyi was setting up her springboard. I thought warming up/throwing skills on the podium before your exercise starts is a deduction? Could have sworn I saw a Chinese gymnast get dinged for doing that before her beam set sometime in the 00s. Somebody could have pulled an East Germany and changed history...

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

China absolutely received a penalty for warming up on the podium during TF at 03 Worlds (also held in the US) that cost them the bronze medal.

@sidoniesera 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc Do we know how much of a deduction? Would be interesting to see if it would have changed the AA outcome in 91 if Zmeskal had incurred the same penalty

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

@sidoniesera 0.2 IIRC

@terry3872 5 месяцев назад

Had Lysenko didnt fall in the beam, she could have become a champion. She had two highest scores among the Soviets in the team optional competition.

@thesovgc 5 месяцев назад

Unfortunately it was clear from her score in the first rotation they weren't going to let her win. Her bars went from 9.987 in Optionals to 9.937 in the AA, the same score Zmeskal received.

@coll4455 6 месяцев назад

Also can’t believe how much more I liked Kim’s floor routine at this. Rock around the clock was 👎🏻

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Nightmarish

@davidjacobmarts535 6 месяцев назад

All three of Bontas' major meet floor exercises were pandering. In 89 worlds, her fx was very Bavarian flavored and that meet was in Germany. In 91 worlds, as you noted, a yucky Americana tribute for a meet in the USA. 92 Olympics in Spain, she does Spanish music. It was an obvious tactic that, I think, took away from all of Bontas' floor routines.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

True. Her 92 routine was good at least 😂

@dronesclubhighjinks 13 дней назад

1. Do you think it was her idea or her coaches’? 2. “ pandering“ was not uncommon also in figure skating and was intended as a tribute to the host country. There are many gymnastics floor routines using the host culture’s music. Silivas 1985, Milosevici 1996, Tweddle 2012, Biles 2016 etc and that’s just off the top of my head. a) is it better or worse when a gymnast uses her own culture’s music at a home Olympics? Tweddle 2012 and China 2008 leap to mind. Commentators have even expressed disappointment when a host country gymnast did not use her culture’s music such as 2011 worlds.

@dronesclubhighjinks 13 дней назад

PS. The eastern bloc countries did not have easy access to western or world music so they did not have the luxury of virtually unlimited choice like the western nations did. The entire eastern block was also in turmoil in the late 80s and early 90s with crumbling dictatorships, especially USSR and Romania, making the lives of ordinary citizens even more challenging and frightening with very limited resources, a chaotic present and an unknown future. It’s almost astonishing they were still able to keep elite athletics going despite the upheavals and fear.

@thesovgc 13 дней назад

@dronesclubhighjinks the Soviets usually had glorious music...

@dronesclubhighjinks 10 дней назад

@@thesovgc the Soviets were considerably wealthier, were one of 2 global superpowers, and had better access/opportunities including their ballet culture, and Russian composers. Romania was one of the least industrialized eastern bloc countries with very limited resources/opportunities. Even East Germany had problems obtaining music, and they were the most industrialized and best organized.

@dannymorales7143 6 месяцев назад

Looooved this but a 9.9 for Bontas’ bars is insane lol

@dannymorales7143 6 месяцев назад

But agree with almost everything else. I’d go 9.85 for Zmeskal on bars, maybe a 10 on floor. I think I’d rank them 1. Boginskaya 2. Gutsu 3. Zmeskal 4. Bontas 5. Miller 6. Okino 7. Milosovici

@Marketoromagnolo 6 месяцев назад

ehy honey, in the new rules, they started for 0, not considering qualifications . anyway my scores PASCA ( 9.9 9.95 9.9 9.7) 39.45----MILOSOVICI 9.9 9.9 9.8 10 39.600 MILLER ( 9.9 9.9 9.9 9.9) 39.600 GUTSU ( 9.95 9.95 9.88 9.95) 39.65 OKINO 9.9 9.95 9.9 9.9 doule pike had same bonus as double layout, but she also was the only one to have bonus in her coreography) 39.65---- BONTAS (9.9 9.9 9.95 9.95) 39.700 BOGINSSKAYA (9.95 9.95 9.95 9.95) 39.800 SMESKAL ( 10 9.9 9.95 10) 39.85 So I think the resuls are correct

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

I didn't say they didn't start from 0?

@Marketoromagnolo 6 месяцев назад

@@thesovgc lol

@dougierichardson484 6 месяцев назад

To sum it up, Boginskaya had average difficulty, but outstanding form and execution, and amazing artistry. Zmeskal had average difficulty, but average form and execution, and average artistry. If someone were to beat Boginskaya it should have been someone with considerably more difficulty like Gutsu or Bontas. Gutsu btw was badly robbed at these worlds in the AA of atleast a much higher placement, if not possibly even winning. Not someone with the same or even maybe less difficulty, but just ordinary form, exeuction, and artistry on top of that, like Zmeskal.

@juanitamccaslin2389 5 месяцев назад

The few times ice watched your Chanel, I'm sorry to say but you lean heavily to Russian gymnasts and away from American gymnasts.

@thesovgc 5 месяцев назад

You don't say?

@lovethat4u 6 месяцев назад

Do the 84 Olympics now!!! Was “that” vault really a 10?

@SDoesNotKnow 6 месяцев назад

Other than this particular floor routine and the opening hand press on beam, I never understood Kim Zmeskal’s appeal. Sure she had power and her tumbling was fast and seemed “explosive”, but her actual content seemed very pedestrian compared to the power she harnessed. And she had that Karyoli messiness and blah bars. Compare her to Shannon Miller, who didn’t have the same potential power and strength Zmeskal had (or even Strug had) but worked so hard to push her difficulty that she was doing routines that were respectable among the “tricksters” from Romania and the Soviet Union, and she had the form and attention to finishing.

@ericmaine 6 месяцев назад

I will say that Kim was very 'clean' during these championships (form and execution) even if her difficulty wasn't the same as others.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

@ericmaine the Gienger says otherwise

@hollycoombes5337 4 месяца назад

Hey I just wondered how you never post videos of Olga korbutt and Nadia comineci and Stellan khorkina given that they are such amazing gymnasts?

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

I made an in-depth video about Svetlana Khorkina and her skills being deleted from the Code of Points. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-e3pCOXuO21w.html

@kballet2001 Месяц назад

I’d like to start a club please where we talk about gymnastics from 1968 to 2008

@kballet2001 Месяц назад

In so glad I found your channel I miss the message board for gymnastics that I used to post on it always had hot topics like this and you are so right! Spot on 110% this was crazy

@TheMajesticice01 6 месяцев назад

I understand you video but you are absolutely bias towards Americans in this video. The Soviets have always cheated even when they forced Cavlaska to share with the Soviets in Olympic Games in Mexico 🇲🇽 not to mention 1988 games and how they sham the Americans in the team finals. They should’ve gotten bronze.

@charlestoddsullivanforpres6628 6 месяцев назад

Are you referring to the split medal with Cavlaska where she looked away as the Soviet anthem was played? What did the Soviets do to cheat there? Same question for the 88 games. What did they do?

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Well Nelli Kim giving Silivaș' first vault a 9.8 certainly felt like cheating to me. The Petrik situation in 68 felt completely different though.

@lovethat4u 6 месяцев назад

Wha? How is is bias towards Melicans?

@DiegoMix501 6 месяцев назад

I agree with every single point in this video. Although, I would deduct extra 0.5 from Bontas on FX for that god awful music and choreo. It opens and closes with the mfing US national anthem for christ's sake (and her hand placed on her heart). I think the coaches and choreographer were like "these stupid americans will eat this thing up" when, in fact, it got a lackluster reception as it should. To me, this is one of my all time worst music/choreo choice.

@terry3872 6 месяцев назад

Yes. Poor choice of music. I don't think many Americans know the traditional American folk song medley she chose. I think it was the same mistake for Galieva in 1996. Hardly any American know and appreciate charlie Chaplin's music even though he is an American .

@3Axel1996 6 месяцев назад

Zmeskal should not have won the AA, I would not have had Hillary Grivich on the team, nor Kerri Strug. No difficulty on Grivich's part and Strug had horrible form, particularly on the beam. It's probably why I was in such joy when Shannon Miller eclipsed Zmeskal as the best US gymnast in Barcelona, topping it off with 5 Olympic medals to Kim's lone bronze from the Team Event.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Not only that, but all of Kim's World titles feel suspect to me. Shannon's? Not so much.

@reneepeters3045 6 месяцев назад

I remember all the press around Kim that Olympics. The supposed favorite after “winning” at worlds. She choked. I felt for her at the time (I was 14) but especially after the kind of coach she became… I’m so glad Shannon outshined her. To me Shannon was perfection as a gymnast. Beautiful artistry but she also had power.

@llwydanwyl 5 месяцев назад

same happened in 93 with lysenko and miller, lysenko did the double twist and while miller was capable she opted for single twist.. btw for someoen so knowledgable unsure why tou pronounce it yurchenka ?

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

That's how it's pronounced in Russian 💗

@rolandgreen7484 4 месяца назад

Lysenko totally robbed of the 93 world AA title. Miller didn't deserve either of her world AA titles, she had errors both times and the judges ignored them while deducting others.

@danielgoncalves5499 6 месяцев назад

I live for that snort right before starting to talk about Kimberly 😂

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Which time? 😂

@Dianajc99 6 месяцев назад

wasn't there 2 completely different judging panels from TO to AA

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

I believe so, but I don't think it makes a difference. The fix was in regardless IMO

@charlestoddsullivanforpres6628 6 месяцев назад

It seemed the Romanians picked 'American' music when they came to America - at the 96 games I remember Milo had "hooked on America" as her floor music. Got very little traction here in the States, but was used once in a TV commercial for an airline, iirc.

@SDoesNotKnow 6 месяцев назад

They really tried to pander to the American audiences. You even saw it with Szabo at the 1984 Olympics in Los Angeles. They seemed to pick really bad recordings and the choreography matched the cheese of the music selections. During this time, I don’t think the American crowds liked the older patriotic standards as we were in the Gen X era and they were pushing back against such things and even though gymnastics audiences were probably older that sort of side-eye seeped into the mainstream attitude. Compare that with Moceanu being an American and had choreography done by a Romanian who had lived in the U.S. for nearly 15 years by that point, and what music she chose to get the Atlanta crowd going (though Olympic audiences were mixed). Comparing the Romanian music choices to Moceanu’s illustrates how an “outsider” would choose music with the intent to pander to a home crowd and how one who is from the culture would choose music to get the crowd going.

@gilliandey2490 5 месяцев назад

I agree.zneskal joke compared to gutsu

@kballet2001 Месяц назад

Mary Lou was so lucky the Soviets didn’t attend. She won by default sorry NO… not at ALL sorry she’s a fundie

@trailrider7046 5 дней назад

What is a fundi?

@thesovgc 5 дней назад

"fundie" Christian fundamental. Wikipedia describes it as a religious movement emphasizing biblical literalism.

@iliitchwieopw 6 месяцев назад

14:05 😂😂😂

@darlenezecca4129 5 месяцев назад

Zmeskal did great. She deserved to win. Stop the hating on the American girl. And if it wasnt for the karolyi's, American gymnastics would have stayed crap. And you also talk so much about gutsu and the 1992 all around that she really didnt make - she fell off the beam and cried and the coach lied and said galiava had an injured knee and gutsu went in her place. So she wasnt good enough to make to the all around and shannon was robbed of the gold. I guess some old-fashioned russia politicking in that olympics.

@thesovgc 4 месяца назад

Gutsu isn't even Russian... Her individual medals in Barcelona were won for Ukraine 🇺🇦. Galieva likely wouldn't have been pulled if she had the resume/reputation that Gutsu did. There's no way Roza would have won, regardless of how well she did. And Gutsu qualified in the top 36--otherwise she wouldn't have been eligible for substitution. Alexandrov was told to bring home medals. That's why he earned the position of head coach and his future aspirations depended on it. Gutsu brought home the gold. Shannon wasn't robbed of anything. A great gymnast shouldn't have to rely on her top rivals not competing in AA Finals.

@cullerjones 4 месяца назад

If worlds were in Europe Zmeskal comes 6th at best in the All Around. She got exposed in Barcelona no longer on her home turf when she was useless.

@cullerjones 4 месяца назад

And Gutsu isn't even Russian dumb ass. Your precious Zmeskal is a forgotten nobody outside the US and has been investigated for abusive coaching.

@darlenezecca4129 2 месяца назад

@thesovgc gutsu was on the unified team- her gold was for russia. She didn't even make the all around and she was overscored on her last event which was vault. Shannon deserved the gold there.

@thesovgc 2 месяца назад

@@darlenezecca4129 Gutsu competed for Ukraine

@JasonQiuMusic 6 месяцев назад

Is it pronounced Yurchenka?

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

More like YUR chen kuh

@makaylalovesgymnastics 6 месяцев назад

Okay Now im on my Gymnastics Channel and Bogi is one of my faves and HELL YES SHE WAS ROBBED DOWN.... ROBBED DOWN ....

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

🙏📠 🙏

@dougierichardson484 6 месяцев назад

Zmeskal getting the same score as Miller and Gutsu on bars even says it all. RIGGED.

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

RIGGA MORRIS!!!

@doodlerobot42 6 месяцев назад

Sorry, what!?! 🤯🤯🤯 Your mother didn't love you!? Her loss then. Please know that you are wonderful and worthy!! 🤍. Ok, back to watching...

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Thank you, love! 💗💗

@dannyh1189 6 месяцев назад

Lol @ Petty B*

@madtownbbbear 6 месяцев назад

Basketball? Review what happened at the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, West Germany. Btw, I was there as a spectator in Indianapolis back in 1991. I had tickets for the entire event and went to everything except the Compulsories, but couldn't avoid them completely actually! There was one group of Compulsories for the women just before the Men's Team Final began so I sat through a session including teams from Norway, Sweden, Finland (I think) and mixed individuals. I was one of the few unhappy American fans when Kim Zmeskal won the gold medal. In fact, I walked out of the arena before the medal ceremony began. I was disgusted back then and I only knew about 25% of what was really going on, but I knew I didn't like it. (Sounds horrible, but when Kim fell off her compulsory beam routine in Barcelona, I cheered! I loved watching that live on Triplecast!)

@wheresbaby7783 6 месяцев назад

Wally why did you not get love from mom

@thesovgc 6 месяцев назад

Some people just shouldn't have have kids 😢

@irinakoteyko8349 6 месяцев назад

😢

@sorayarose927 5 месяцев назад

unrelated but.... God bless the Lord loves you more than you can ever imagine so much so that he gave his only son to die on the cross to bear our sins so that we'd be completely pardoned from sin and its eternal consequences if we believe he died for our sins and repent from our sinful and worldly ways(turn from and turn to God) - life is short and our only chance to get right with God, take it ❤ YOU CAN DO IT

@thesovgc 5 месяцев назад

Grandma is that you? 😭

@adam4019 6 месяцев назад

My only difference would be between SB’s vault and KZ’s vault. I don’t think Svetlana should score higher than Kim’s. I know Svetlana had rec’d 10’s for that vault earlier in the quad. However, I think towards the end of the quad - the judges and crowd required that “open flair” to get a 10. It almost became the stylistic trend. Overall, I agree with your results though 🏆

@rolandgreen7484 5 месяцев назад

Zmeskal didnt really have the open flair either. She did some in 92 but not in 91. Laschenova is one of the only ones who had it.

@adam4019 5 месяцев назад

@@rolandgreen7484 1992: I think both Kim and Shannon flared it pretty well.