I profoundly enjoyed listening to your story Joseph as mine is so incredibly similar. 20 years of insomnia, and then having a breakthrough through CBT-I. Though the CBT-I was really not enough for me, I needed Daniel's teaching as well. And actually I am still very much struggling, but at least I am on the way. What I recognize totally is this feeling of "my insomnia is uniquely bad, it belongs to a different category", so therefore, all the normal routes to recovery will not work for me. Also the feeling of 'having tried everything already', I never slept near a chicken hen though 🤣 What I am taking away from you story is that you have overcome your obsession, by severing the connection between you, your life, and sleep. I once described this to myself as: recovering from insomnia is not about improving your relationship with sleep, it's doing away with the relationship altogether. Thank you so much for sharing your story, it's really good to know there is another 20-year long sufferer who has overcome his insomnia completely!
Thanks Hugo for sharing this! I just really wanted to emphasize that I believe what you said here about the relationship is so true. It may start with changing the relationship, but ultimately it’s when we no longer even have any particular relationship with sleep/being awake at night that there’s 0 struggle. It can be confusing because it can seem like people who sleep well have a “great relationship” with sleep or that they “love to sleep”, but in reality they don’t really have one. They just assume sleep will happen. Talk soon!!
Hi Hugo, thank you for listening. Yes I think CBT-I got me a good way there, but I have written my book in Daniels NATTO philosophy to work on the Hyperarousal side of insomnia as letting go of that obsession around sleep which the tracking and time component of CBT-I can foster is the last step, when you can truely reach a place where you just don't care anymore, that is when you are free of it! or as you put it 'doing away with the relationship towards sleep all together' I pick aspects from both my courses as they were both amazing and blend them into the book. One thing I did'nt discuss on the video that I write about in the book was how insomnia chips away at your self esteem as it can take from your love of life, affect those around you you that you love, and hold you in a place where you know you are not living fully, but don't know how to find away out. I think the erosion of self, has a great bearing on your confidence that insomnia can be overcome and I try my absolute best to give my reader their confidence back!
@@InsomniaTalks,this 'erosion of self' yes, you put it into words really well. Insomnia can feel like there is not so much left of 'you' anymore and deeply affects all area's of life, now I am even more curious about your book 😊
Hi Michelle. I can't wait for you to read it! Overcoming my own insomnia was the best thing I have ever done, but I think writing the book is a close second as if I can help you and other people sleep then it will give meaning to my 20 years of insomnia. As well as loads of sleep knowledge it should also be a fun and enjoyable read. It's called "You can sleep too!" and as soon as it is back from the copy editor it is hitting the shelves!
Hi everyone! Super excited to share that Joe’s book ‘You can sleep too’ is now available on Amazon 😁 It’s a chronicle I know will change lives and it’s sprinkled with true insights😊
Hi Rochelle, So sorry to hear how much you’re struggling. You know, what really helps is education, understanding why the struggle exists. I think the This is Natto playlist is a great place to learn. Hang in there and let us know how things go.
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 thank you ! I just need someone who can comfort me and tell me I will going to be fine. As of now I’m hurt with this so so bad
This was a great discussion. I think my brain goes into listening to these podcasts like “ok you’ll probably relate to their story until they mention that stimulus control or sleep restriction helped fix their insomnia” and when it is inevitably mentioned I feel like I’m missing out on this magical, guaranteed cure that I haven’t tried out yet. But I’m scared to try it because of how restrictive and unnatural it seems and the fact that it might not work and be a waste of time but do insomniacs really need to implement it? Or can you still be as successful if you go to bed whenever you want and get up whenever you want?
Hi Ellie! You know I don’t believe at all in sleep restriction or stimulus control in the way the are taught in traditional CBTi. The key is always simply to unlearn the fear. And if you look for example at Michelle’s story who was a guest last week.. CBTi techniques made things much worse for her!! So it’s really all about changing your relationship with being awake at night, and if you want peace, the means to get there should be peaceful. Meaning, no pressure is the way!
Hi there, I’d say if you’re looking for something that has some cbti elements, Joe who is a guest is really nice. So is Martin Reed. Now what we’ve found is that for many the cbti elements can sometimes lead to more difficulties if it involves tracking sleep and attempting to control sleep… just something to keep in mind if you find it tricky. Hope you find a nice way 😊
Hey Joe, Just wondering about feeling sleeping again. With the restriction you said you felt less pressure knowing that is not time to go to bed but what if you feel more pressure because obviously the thought of window is open i need to be asleep or else? Also when did stimulus control did you get out of the bed frustrated, questioning yourself? Did you actually feel sleepy after reading or doing something enjoy before you head back to bed or you never did? At what point did you were able to associate your bed with being a restful happy place again?
Hi JK, Thanks for your message. Yes initially when I first learnt that I would be limiting my time in bed I would say I definitely felt more pressure. I felt, well before I am in bed for 10 hours and only getting, 4/5 hours sleep so surely if I am in bed for only 6 hours I will only sleep for 2 to 3. I think however because I had learnt so much sleep knowledge in my first session and understood how sleep worked I had just enough confidence in the sleep window to just give it a try,. Once I saw the amazing results I got from it, that was when I truely had confidence in it. I would say however it isnt easy, but the prospect of another 20-30 years of insomnia was far harder so I chose difficulty in the short term to improve my sleep over the long term and it was the best decision I ever made. With the stimulus control, Yes I talk about this in my book - "you can sleep too!"- Initially I viewed leaving the bedroom through the eyes of failure and defeat, however my sleep specialist shifted my mindset on this. Breaking a habit I had been doing for 20 years (lying in bed trying to force sleep) was hard but I was doing it! so everytime I went downstairs I tried to think of it as a success to help me sleep over the long run, rather than a failure over the short term. Time frame wise, I can't give an exact time as I don't know the exact month/day but I can say with consistency it just gradually got better and better. I hope this helps, when you do your own sleep window, there are some amazing times (when you start to see your sleep improve!) and some more difficult times, but self kindness and a clear vision of the reason why you want to do it will definitely help you on your journey to overcome insomnia.
Do you have to sleep at the same time everyday to get your sleep better I have been with insomnia for 2 months I am 16 hopping to get better because I want to grow taller
Hi Windy, you know when we go to bed isn’t very important at all, it’s helpful on the other hand the get up and start your day about the same time every morning. Something that I think is good for almost everyone is to do something like this: get up at for example 7 am (no matter what the night was like) - stop checking the time at 11 pm, only allow sleep to happen between 11-7, do something you enjoy when you’re awake, not track sleep or time!
Hi Sujanith and George! If you haven’t already seen it, I recommend insomnia insight 314 where I review the gas snd brake model. This explains how sleep is regulated. Gas is sleep drive and brake hyperarousal. It’s quite simple! Now what about intermittent fasting and ketosis? It is true that things other than sleep drive and hyperarousal (gas and brake) have an impact on sleep. In fact, thousands of things impact our sleep! How much protein you had yesterday, what do you floss or not, the brand of toothpaste you like, if you’re right handed or left-handed, what do you like sugar in your tea or lemon, all have some impact. The question is how much? Perhaps if you eat more carbohydrates you sleep one minute less. And if you have Diet Coke instead of Diet Pepsi, you may sleep 38 seconds more. But the thing is, none of the above really matters. A few seconds in this or that direction doesn’t matter! Whether you drink Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi doesn’t matter - but if you think about it and worry about and ponder it, well that matters a lot! Another way of saying this is X isn’t the problem, thinking about X is. That’s what I think!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 I had the worst sleep of my entire life on a keto diet, I was doing some intermittent fasting as well. I'm talking 3 hours, 4 hours max of broken up sleep waking every hour.
Hi Chris! Thanks for sharing and you know, lots of things can disrupt sleep for sure! I’d say the difference between something like for example steroid medicine disrupting sleep and insomnia is that the latter has “a life of it’s own”. If you sleep little, but you know why, and don’t ponder and wonder and try to sleep more - then that’s not insomnia! Because the reason is obvious so there’s no mystery or anxiety. It won’t have “a life of it’s own”. I’m glad you’re not having trouble sleeping now👍!
Hi Abishek, there really isn’t any cure, because it’s not a disease! Insomnia comes from a confusion, a misunderstanding, that being awake is a threat and from the attempts to control sleep which leads to more and more struggle. Looking for a quick insight or fix is ironically what keeps insomnia going! Taking some time to listen and learn, just for the sake of learning, not listening to “find the fix” - that’s the way the struggle ends!
Goodness me.... 20 years even halucinating. Anyone who experience that would be scared. This whole experience does make people stronger. What i find hard is the fatigue like nothing else after days and days of no sleep. Mentally and physically. You want to do something but even standing up need super power. How to cope with overwhelming fatigue? It is weird he didnt experience fatigue after 20 years of insomnia. Im not as long as him but i already experiencing fatigue. Even standing up is a challenge. Maybe he was very hyper aroused he didnt feel it while i started to accept and relax a bit?also wondering about cbt. Tried it the sleep restriction for 6 weekd it made me more anxious with panic attack and clock watching when to go to bed and clock watching when to get out of bed which made me try to problem solve sleep more by controlling the time. I guess it works to some people huh....
Hi Chen, yes you know I think with traditional Cbti is sort of luck that determines how well you do. If spending less time in bed leads you to think “oh now I have more time to do something I enjoy” and you try less to sleep, it helps. If on the other hand you think “oh no now I only have six hours, and I have all these rules, and what if it doesn’t work!” then you’re actually left more anxious and sleeping less! As for the fatigue, I think the most important is to see that this is emotional fatigue, and that when you are hard on yourself by saying for example “what’s wrong with me I can’t even do these simple chores without feeling like a zombie” then you’re going to have more trouble! Because just like other unpleasant emotions the more we judge ourselves for then and make them go away the more sticky they become. Being kind to oneself and not pushing oneself or thinking you “shouldn’t be this tired” - this helps!
Heyy i wanted to ask you something more. I am noticing that when i sleep there are 2 patterns .... i sometimes get awake during sleep and then fall asleep again. I sometimes fall asleep while remaining awake and then awake again. But in both cases i don't remember when i was awake and when i was asleep. I read online that this is a symptom of SFI i.e. alternative brief spells of awakeness and sleep and not remembering them. What do you think about this?
Hi! To me that’s not true in the sense that this is not something that is a “symptom” - in other words, the person with sfi will not experience this. Their sleep and brain activity is so disorganized that they aren’t really aware. A 2 week old baby similarly has very disorganized sleep and aren’t really aware or being awake or asleep!
@@thesleepcoachschool8192 i am also not aware when i am asleep and awake...what does that mean? Like for example.....yesterday night i felt like i was awake the entire night....but my mom beside me told me that i was only awake a few times and between the periods of awakeness i was asleep.....but for me it felt like i was awake the entire time.....what does this mean?
