Tapirs are Hate Speech Now? 

Since leaving last year, I'm finding myself continually astounded at how fully and utterly I believed the LDS Church's truth claims. I'm so glad I'm out of there. I'm also embarrassed it took me so long to leave.

To add to the silliness: Tapirs urinate backwards explosively 8-10 feet so please have empathy for the poor drenched Nephite charioteers.

Morms are so desperate to feel persecuted

Those who think that ex-Mormons are synonymous with anti-Mormons are the ones who are most likely to become ex-Mormons within the next five years. I've seen this play out many times with other friends, and in myself. Those who feel the most threatened in the church tend to be the ones whose underlying insecurities will eventually lead them out. To those people: you are a friend regardless. Life is hard enough as it is without placing ideologies above relationships.

As Nemo pointed out, it’s troubling for those of us who were taught to be obedient and to never doubt what Mormon leaders say, to decades later find out that everything you were taught were children’s stories. It makes your head spin.

The guy’s breathing on the audio clips was driving me craaaaaazy!

Lol. The persecution complex will never end.

Another point regarding translation: if the Nephites used their non-english (reformed Egyptian or whatever) word for “horse” to describe tapirs, why would Joseph Smith, by the power of God, translate that word into the English “horse”? Words are arbitrary and carry the meaning we assign them, so why would the mislabeling of an animal in a certain language (Nephites) be carried into another language (English) if the translation is divine?

The argument that a tapir could be a horse in the BofM is so ridiculous that anyone suggesting this should instantly lose any credibility (I don't care what your education or background is). Can you imagine Helaman riding a tapir? What about Captain Moroni? This idea deserves all the ridicule it gets! The tapir is the perfect symbol for Mormon mental gymnastics.

l was today years old when I learned that a black and white tapir was a Malaysian tapir, and not native to the Americas. Thanks for your commitment to shedding light on all truth Nemo. 🐎🔦 Also, I am “letting you know in the comments;” PLEASE do an episode on the September Six. I am related to the Toscano’s by marriage, (through Janice Allred) but I was 14ish when it all went down, and the excommunication drama was hush-hush grownup talk. And to be perfectly honest, at 14 I was way more concerned about what to wear to the next stake dance than my intellectual relatives getting excommunicated. Times have changed.

THE PASSAGE IN "The Book of Mormon" is very specific...and with other animals listed, it seems clear THE WRITER KNEW WHAT HE WAS DESCRIBING>.... "...both the cow and the ox and the ass and the HORSE and the goat and the wild goat and all manner of wild animals which were for the use of man." THE WRITER even mentions the difference between "wild animals" and the domesticated ones previously listed. TAPIR IS RIDICULED BECAUSE IT WAS AND IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE EXTREMES LDS APOLOGOSTS WILL TRY TO GO TO MAKE "The Book of Mormon" WORK.

A couple other problems with DP’s apologetic: the context of the BOM horses is not just wild animals encountered, but beasts of burden. We read of chariots and Ammon caring for the king’s horses. Ecologically the tapir is nothing like a horse, so the “familiar name” argument doesn’t hold. Also, even if you want to attribute anachronisms such as this to the imprecision of a loose translation, you can’t accept ambiguity in the text here and then turn around and assert a precise, dogmatic interpretation elsewhere.

The Romans didn't call a "hippo" a horse, they call it a RIVER horse. RIVER horse. There seems to be some words missing from the BoM. My copy only says horse.

Nemo you make the best videos for people in the church who want unbiased truth and for exmormons. I don’t like listening to mocking videos, your commentary is straight to the point and well researched. Thank you.

Did anyone else notice in this Mormonland episode when Peggy called him out and said, “dude, this is the Church PR department’s job.” 😂😂😂

I wish your videos were longer, Nemo!!! We enjoy you so very much 👍🏻

Tapirs are clearly a symbol of hate, as sloths are a symbol of one of the seven deadly sins.

The tapir courageously pulling the chariot made me laugh out loud, because this is the reasonable depiction of what Mormon apologists are describing.

when i heard this mormonland episode i could not stop laughing 🤣

Exmormon is not the same as anti-mormon. Anything that contradicts mormon theology or teachings is labeled anti- by the leadership of the lds church. So history, biology, archeology, physics, etc that contradict mormonism is anti.

Mormon church we do not offer apologies but we do fund apologists, whose job is not to apologise, but rather to condemn those calling for apologies. I don’t know about you but it only strengthens my testimony 😂

Seriously?!? Joseph was supposed to be getting his words DIRECTLY from god NOT guessing about what animals were…geez! One would think god would know the correct names of his creations 😂😂😂

Well, since using the word Mormon is seen as a pejorative, anything can be considered hateful.

As I was growing up in The Church, I was always proud of being the type of person that Mormons were "taught to be." All of us like Brigham Young....PRACTICAL...LOGICAL....HARD WORKING....HONEST....etc. (At least that was The Narrative.) BUT NOW, in 2024 and the last couple of years, TBMs are getting so desperate to defend The Church and its HISTORY, that they were BEND AND TWIST AND DO WHATEVER THEY THINK IS NECESSARY to TRY TO SELL EXPLANATIONS!!! So NOW, it's deny, deny deny......head in the sand or up their ass....and basically move away from INTELLIGENCE!!! COMMON SENSE!!! You can't spoon feed facts and truths. You can't force them to accept reality. "TESTIMONY" TRUMPS ALL!!!!!!!!!!

Did anyone else catch that Daniel C. Peterson said "when the 'native americans' first encountered horses, ... " wouldn't that be funny for native americans to fist encounter horses when Europeans arrived & not for all the generations since Nephi, down to the current timeframe - yeah, I thought that would be funny

How long was the priesthood a hate symbol?

Mormon Mormon Mormon... Tapir Tapir Tapir😮😊🎉❤

Great video Nemo.

Trolling with the British tapir. :)

Oh dear...excuses and excuses by lds. 😂😂😂 You are a trooper Nemo to exposing their lies and cover ups!

Just to add a note on the timing: I first heard the tapir theory as a missionary in some FARMS article. I thought it was a good explanation and was able to put the "no horses in the Americas" argument onto my shelf. BUT This was before widespread internet access. I couldn't just image search "tapir" on my phone and very quickly debunk the idea that these animals could be substituted for horses in a society. Instead, I relied on quasi church-sponsored organizations like FARMS to vet this information. When, years later, I found out what a tapir looked like I realized (i) I had been lied to, no honest broker of information would have argued that this was a substitute for a horse, and (ii) I had wanted to be deceived. That's what the tapir symbolizes for me: A time when I wanted to accept lies rather than confront facts.

I was attending a BYU Education Week when the tapir explanation was given for a horse. I laughed out loud thinking it was a joke .... only to discover that sadly it was not. The ridiculous apologetics of the LDS Church is one of the reasons I left. Just say you don't know and stop making up ridiculous explanations!!!

When a tapir whistles ... I imagine it sounds like the Andy Griffith Show for some reason.

The noble tapirs helped guide the Nephites into many battles. They represent an important part of Book of Mormon history and acted as a reliable substitute in the absence of horses for transportation. They were an Early-day symbol of what would become the Book of Mormon.

The Gospel of Restoration , restoring its image.

*If the best of the best BYU Mormon apologist says it's true, then it's honoring great Lamanite generals*

Daniel C Peterson resembling the rear end of a tapir is proof of evolution. I see Peterson riding off into the sunset atop a tapir in search of the lost Lamanites. 🎬🎥🍿

Outward symbol of an inward commitment! Brilliant @nemo!

When I was a little girl, our school teacher was talking about the native Americans and she asked us: "Does anyone know where the Indians came from?" One boy said "India" and the teacher said no. Another child said they were Chinese. And she said closer. Then I said: "They come from Israel like Jesus did!" And I went on to tell the class the story. The teacher let me go on for around four minutes before telling me that was a nice story and then telling us about the Bering Straits. A note was sent home with me to my Mom commending me on my ability to recount a story and wondering who the storyteller was in our family.

We are soooooo persecuted...

I really enjoy listening to you Nemo. I do wish it was longer but not sure how you would do that. Thanks for coming to the states for the Town of Fairfield?

The tapir is a symbol of my power and priesthoods. The power of transparency and priesthood of reason.

Love the "outward reminder of an inner commitment." Also, does Dan Peterson hear himself? He says the Native Americans didn't recognize horses and called them deer. But Dan, aren't the Native Americans the descendants of the BoM people? How is it that BoM people know horses so well that a thousand years after Nephi they still use a word that translates to horse, but another thousand years later they've never heard of a horse and call them deer?

8:34 Couldn't have said it better myself 👏🏻

What can be said of a fictional book?

I struggle with the idea that exmo or even anti-Mormon is equivalent to a hate group. There is a difference between hating a people and hating an ideology.

So true Nemo, thank you for explaining how reasonable, caring members of the church feel as they separate fact from (often cherished) church teachings!

Oh GOOD GRIEF!

Chief Midegah of the Ojibwe nation is releasing 'the birch bark scrolls'''now. Other tribes are getting together this September (2024) to release more, and to petition the LDS church for acknowledgement of all the other records they have. I wonder if they can answer the horse question. i also liked reading the Nemenhah record (more on Hogath's descendants), so why is the LDS church staying silent on these matters?

The ironic thing about using the Malayan tapir: if a believing member is smart enough to call that out, they should also be able to call out Ol' Joe for his anachronisms.

Far too cute for anyone to think it’s a hate symbol. Unless you’re in a cult & commanded to do so of course. They’ve been told shunning is love, so…

I'm hoping genetic engineering can give us banzai animals. A cat-sized tapir would be sooo cute! 😍

A Tapir represents bad apologetics by supposed scholars.

North Africa forms part of the cradle that gave birth to the Bible, participating in the production of the Bible as we now have it. Mediterranean Africa had a marked effect, both in terms of the actual formation of the Bible and its interpretation.

Real Christian never Mormon here, I'll leave a Bible quotation at the end that explains the issue pretty well. This sort of accusation of hate speach happens when people are confronted with uncomfortable truths that stir at the borders of their credulity, such as this people domesticating tapirs thing. This isn't specific to Mormonism, see the fuss Muslims make about being hated when you show them their sources, in which Mohammed is sexualizing an [extremely] young girl. Back to the horses thing, I'm not sure if even Joseph Smith in all his con-man glory would offer this bunk up. I think if you brought this issue up to him he would point you to the preface to the Book of Mormon (which i am sadly, very literally, having trouble reading beyond it, and which he specifically wrote to weasel out of things like this) which says: "And now, if there are faults they are the mistakes of men; wherefore, condemn not..." Honestly back in his day he'd probably follow that up with some kind of psychological manipulation, or bribery of some kind. Anyways, John 3:19-20 explains it pretty well: [19] This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. [20] Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. God bless

Why couldn’t there have been horses on the ships with Lehi? But regardless - such a trivial thing that has lots of possible answers (including that the bom is made up) all of which we will only resonate with and accept answers that fit our paradigms and lens of faith that we look at it through.

Thanks!

All the examples that Peterson gave were compound words such as "river horse". Therefore, a tapir should be called a "jungle horse" or something similar in the BOM. Also a tapir is useless ass a mount.

Let's also not forget Nemo that JS did a tight translation. With that, there is no way you can call a tapir a horse. Those other ridiculous animal names are proof of that.

correction at :30 mark: Wall St Journal not Washington Post

Is it possible that horses never went extinct in the Americas?

I don't care about horses or tapirs, pro- or antimormon stuff. It's just that there is no archeological evidence of the people and events described in the BM. Does it have good Christ-focused messages? Yes. I don't think it's more than Bible fan fiction though.

Mr. Peterson mocks others for not having his linguistic skills and the bro doesn't even know the plural of hippopotamus. Great job bringing the garment language into the symbol, Nemo.

Occam's razor, carbon dating is wrong therefore horses existed and were not tapirs, or the church is lying

👏👏👏

Seriously, folks are arguing and spending time on this?

Can both anti and TBMs be wrong?

Even if he was right about naming tapirs after horses because they look like ponies or donkeys (which is ridiculous vis a vie all the reasons you offer Nemo) we should remember that hippopotami were qualified as river horses and not horses only. So if central-American Nephi had called a tapir a short sucking donkey then perhaps we might take a third look but of course....we will not.

If the translation is tight and perfect, Mormonism claims that God said there were horses in the americas

Here is latest, mormons boasting of masonry affiliation, boasting.of it. Masonry is ñot Christianity!

No it is not.

This is a bit of a stupid issue. No one I know has ever discussed Tapirs with regards to the Book of Mormon. What also amazes me is of all the very real issues people have with the Church, why so many exmos get so obsessed with the Church instead of just living their lives. As for me, I still go to church because I enjoy having a community of people who are trying to better themselves and support each other, and I appreciate the weekly ritual of sacrament that provides a reminder of God and redemption. I understand people who feel they can't associate with the Church. For me it's as simple as I love believing in God and I don't feel like I would gain anything by going elsewhere even if I do doubt some aspects of the Church because to me, the LDS church is still better than all other churches I've ever seen.

But, what a about Jesus?

Taper horse 🐴???😊

Sounds like someone is rather desperate for a place to be relevant. Anyone offended is simply ignorant. They should be complimented by this extra- ordinary creature. As to what who called what when they may have first encountered the what, how is that even relevant to what js called exactly what his fantastical tale meant to say? Almost pitiable.

Stop mocking innocent Tapirs mormoncorp…they are beautiful like unto horses..🦓

I don’t see tapirs though so not sure what you all are talking about. I do see horses though. 😉

Nemo seek a good therapist...

The Mormon Land podcast guy makes a lot of mouth noise. Lots of pops and clicks and snorts.

The tapir is an inside joke between Peterson and the Exmormons. The joke being that true believers are not taught that BoM horses are tapirs. The tapir explanation is only given to exmormons and is only "anti" if you disagree with Peterson's apologetics.

I don't know why someone would think tapirs are horses. Horses are horses. LOLOL. We know horses existed in America because skeletons have been pulled out of the La Brea tar pits. So it's time to get off the 'No Horses' in America prior to the Spanish conquestadors bandwagon. The American continent horses were smaller and were hunted, much like todays hunters hunt deer. The 'horses' were eventually wiped out at the Last Battle (the Lamanites used them for food while surrounding Mount Rama) and when the Nephites were eliminated...so was the death of the native American horse. Unfortunately...when people think of horses they think of the wild Spanish horses that were left behind by the Conquestadors. The Indians did not know how to train horses...and it was a well kept secret from them by the first European settlers. Eventually the Indians learned how to 'break' horses and the rest is western history.

About two percent of the archaeology in the Americas that could be done has been done. Question for the anti’s: when horses are discovered in the Americas will you join the church or just move to the next thing on the list archaeologists haven’t discovered yet? No BS answers or hiopocracy please, I have sharp retorts if tou come at me with malarkey.

Is anyone else super distracted by this guy's constant lip smacking? Edit: To Clarify. Not Nemo's but the guy in the Podcast Recording

tapirs? you are wierd There is no Tapir in the book of Mormon.....