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Target analysis observations among the Minelab Manticore, Equinox 800 and XP Deus II 

Loren Lemcke
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Some observations on target analysis among the Minelab Manticore, Equinox 800, XP Deus II in regards to aluminum bottlecaps with respect to the 2D screen, and iron discrimination in relation to Iron Bias, FE, FE2, and the upper and lower ferrous limits on the Manticore.
Please note these are above ground tests and should only be regarded as preliminary observations, not conclusions.
#metaldetecting #metaldetector #minelab #minelabmanticore #xpdeus #xpdeusii

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16 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 55   
@jerrymellinger7471
@jerrymellinger7471 Год назад
Loren, thank you for this video. I just started detecting a little over a year ago and have both the D2 and the MC. I learn by understanding “why” something happens, not so much by repetition. What I mean by that is, I can go out and do something that I’m told to do, but it doesn't click, until I understand the reasons or theory behind it. Once I understand the “why”, it is so much easier for me to apply correctly. Your videos explain the why, in a way that is educational, without coming across as biased or confrontational, which I appreciate. Great job.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
I am in the same boat, learning the "why" is hugely useful and meaningful to me. I want to understand as much of the theory as possible because it informs me about what the detector is trying to tell me. Some people can be successful just hearing a beep and then digging, but I want to know more.
@williampaxton871
@williampaxton871 Год назад
Good to have you back posing detector info. Loren.
@KaosK9
@KaosK9 8 месяцев назад
Just found your stuff and it's great. Brings a more informed engineering perspective to the detector analysis. Thanks! I have found your videos much more informative than the bulk of the videos out there. Keep up the great work. Not sure if I missed it, if you cited it, but what was the approximate distance from the target where you experienced the shift from the near field to far field audio on the manticore?
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke 8 месяцев назад
Glad to hear you are finding them useful! I actually don't have an exact measurement for where that transition occurs. I'd definitely recommend playing with some targets and getting a feel for it and seeing where the behavior changes :)
@SubVet1984
@SubVet1984 9 месяцев назад
You are perhaps the most technically adept person I’ve watched yet regarding metal detectors. Where can I get more “techie” type info on the science of metal detecting? I’m interested in the electronics of the detector. I’ve got a D2
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke 8 месяцев назад
I am pleased to hear you are getting some value from my videos! Honestly, there is really limited information on the subject, detector manufacturers like to keep as much secrets as possible. Some of the best things you can look up are research papers on counter-mining, non-destructive testing using eddy currents, food based metal detectors, and other related industries.
@sandman4224
@sandman4224 Год назад
The dreaded bottle cap :( When I get that funky 22/23 on my Nox, I will pinpoint and listen to how loud it comes in for the depth showing. If its louder, I won't dig. I may miss a few keepers but my frustration level is significantly reduced :) My Manticore, when it arrives, will definitely make the decision much easier. Thanks for the tutorial!
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
These aluminum screw caps come in a variety of types that were produced over the last 100 years or so and can ring up anywhere from 16-32 on the Equinox 800, most times they sound exactly like a coin, occasionally the tone is slightly funky and you can get a sense that it is probably one of these caps, but you still can't pass up the signal in case it's a slightly compromised coin signal. So unfortunately I end up digging them all anyway, since some really old corroded coppers, coins that have gone through the plow, etc. can all produce similar funkiness.
@sandman4224
@sandman4224 Год назад
@@LorenLemcke Understood. The coins of Europe are significantly different than the US coins I dig. HH
@TexasTimelapse
@TexasTimelapse Год назад
Thanks for pointing out the FE and FE2 settings. Someone posted a video showing his "setup" of the 800. He was thinking you could adjust both. I called him out in the comments and he called me an idiot and I don't know what I'm talking about. 🤣 This guy is an idiot! I wish I could remember who it was, but that was over a year ago.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Haha, yeah I see many people making that mistake and then claim to be experts with the detector, when in reality they have no clue they are randomly selecting between FE and FE2 depending on whichever they adjusted last xD
@MetalDiggr
@MetalDiggr Год назад
I've noticed that the square nail falsing (US farm fields) happens only when the nail is at 45 degrees off parallel with the coil. I get iron grunts in every position and depth and high tones if I pass the nail over the coil at 45 degrees. In the fields here in Pennsylvania it can be brutal working through the high tone falsing.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Yup, iron falsing is definitely angle dependent :)
@DIRTBROSDETECTING
@DIRTBROSDETECTING Год назад
PMW tones give more info than square in full tones and I can tell modern alloys or junk most of the time with the D2 although the wine caps are harder to tell, good info👍 I wonder a coin on edge at depth would give an oblong the same as the cap on the manticore?
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Yeah PWM definitely has a bit more information, but I just personally can't stand listening to it through headphones for more than a few minutes because it has a "crying-baby" timbre to it that I find incredibly unpleasant. It quickly gives me sensory overload and a headache, I much prefer more musical audio with square tones and the Minelab machines. I also feel its easier to pick out specific ranges of targets in full tones when on square audio for searching in heavy iron. Constant Iron buzz in PWM I also find to be unpleasant too. I did try some coins on edge, but they still produced a rather tight dot. Their conductivity is pretty constant over a sweep still.
@DIRTBROSDETECTING
@DIRTBROSDETECTING Год назад
@@LorenLemcke I love the full tones on the D1 and the minelab flutes equally so I dont think there’s still one machine for everything, the nox tones you could tell what stuff was just harder do read than the xp but definitely deeper.. manticore looks epic and no doubt I’ll get one but at £1800 I won’t be rushing, I’ll wait until they are available everywhere, any chance of a depth test between the d2 and manti? We all love a bit of drama😂👍
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
@@DIRTBROSDETECTING I would like to do some depth tests between the Manticore and the D2, but the ground here is frozen solid. Every other depth test I see, they make several key mistakes, e.g. one detector has comparatively lower recovery speed than the other, they are air testing, or they use an abnormally large airgap to artificially simulate the object being deeper (like they raise the detector above the ground until it vanishes, which is highly problematic when you know how a detector actually performs a ground balance), etc.
@DIRTBROSDETECTING
@DIRTBROSDETECTING Год назад
@@LorenLemcke looking forward to it👍😊
@ohiofredl
@ohiofredl Год назад
Thanks
@ohiofredl
@ohiofredl Год назад
Questions? Do any of setting you make in control box on 800 nox or any machine.Are they transmitted through coil or just power setting and frequency,?Also on receiving end coil signal is it operating in all metal and none of your setting are not used till after signals enter back of control box? Thanks for answer.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
In general the coil / magnetic field stays the same regardless of settings, changing hunting modes can change which fundamental frequencies are emitted, or if you change to single frequency. But for example, a lot of people think adjusting the sensitivity affects transmit power of the magnetic field, when it actually only affects the amplification applied to the received signal. Most of the processing happens after the signal is received.
@ohiofredl
@ohiofredl Год назад
Well thanks for answer kind of understood answer. So do any of setting you use coin programs or other setting have no effect until it come from transmitter to receiver in all metal and does not use any setting till it enters back of control box from coil through circuit board. Thanks if see what iam saying. Thanks for your time.
@Windsurfingaddict
@Windsurfingaddict Год назад
Thank you for this video, been wondering how well the 2 D screen works in real world 😀
@cs-electronic
@cs-electronic Год назад
The xy screen of the D2 helps me to see, if it is iron. It works quite well. The full tones, i hear the iron mostlikely, to assure it I look up the xy.
@RussTNails-fw9ds
@RussTNails-fw9ds Год назад
You must have dug a lot trash to get to all you have in your display cabinet. The 2d screen might get less accurate with high mineral and loads of trash like the places I search, the more the trash the better it is !🤔
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Ive got boxes and boxes full of B-tier finds too, a whole chest full of coins 1700s and older. I am pretty sure nobody in Finland digs more holes than I do :D I am an addict. I also have about 500+ finds that I haven't properly cleaned and sorted through and tried to identify. Mineralization ranges from mild to moderate here, occasionally high from lots of dissolved iron. I am curious to see how mineralization affects the 2D and just learning the 2D screen more in general. Sadly the ground here is still frozen! :(
@kilner79
@kilner79 Год назад
i notice on the d2 on the iron you dont have the iron sound on for the descrimination its reading 0 and 8 etc and bouncing high and back low but its like all your tones on the deus2 at 0to 99 are set to sound like its banging the target now if you had descrim at 10 and set the sound to 100khz you might start hearing the iron grunt the standard programs are not the best to test with
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
In the default fast program, when the detector assigns an ID of 6.8 or lower, it will produce the iron grunt. Admittedly the low iron tones do not come through on the audio recording very well for whatever reason.
@kilner79
@kilner79 Год назад
@@LorenLemcke hi thanks again for the video ive watched again after i have done some tests with my own d2 and the d2 is giving all iron a good tone at depth and puting everything into the 75-85 vdi range regardless of what it is if at depth seems very annoying as dont get iron iron grunt after say 10" then turns to a better tone the deeper it gets dose the manticore do the same ?
@williampaxton871
@williampaxton871 Год назад
The Deus II apparently has a rather significant update coming by the end of the month. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on it once received and tried out. Bill
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Will do! I still love the Deus II even if it suffers from the same limitation on these aluminum screw caps that the Equinox 800 does. My goal is never really to say one detector is better than the other and then throw the losing detector in the trash, like some of these other testers. I want to use all my tools to the maximum potential.
@williampaxton871
@williampaxton871 Год назад
Loren, have you seen this issue with the Manticore? ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-SFi5_5Anob4.html Curious as to your thoughts. Bill
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
@@williampaxton871 That is weird and definitely strikes me as a software bug. I will see if I can reproduce the bug tomorrow. Definitely doesn't seem like an intended behavior.
@williampaxton871
@williampaxton871 Год назад
You are the guy to test it out, Loren. Let me know how your testing turns out.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
@@williampaxton871 would be curious to know if that happens on all segments of custom limits. Also if it happens on any Target that appears in the lower section. Will do a deep dig into it tomorrow.
@GaryandtheGooseDetecting
@GaryandtheGooseDetecting Год назад
Great video ,have you tried pull tabs/ gold ring difference?
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
I don't have a large variety of gold rings to test with, but I will fiddle with it some more and see if I can find any meaningful differences :)
@GaryandtheGooseDetecting
@GaryandtheGooseDetecting Год назад
@@LorenLemcke thanks ,I'm still waiting on my manticore so just curious, I'm sure pull tabs will be tough to differentiate. Thanks again
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
@@GaryandtheGooseDetecting Yeah they are so similar in their magnetic field profile, topology, conductance and inductance, that I would be shocked if any detector ever will be able to differentiate them.
@petervandenbosch6353
@petervandenbosch6353 Год назад
Same signal on the screen with an intact aluminum bottle cap? I mean a flat sigal and not round like a coin?
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Off camera I tested a variety of these aluminum screen caps, in a variety of states of being smashed, cut, pristine and the 2D screen revealed a difference between all of them except one that was smashed perfectly flat and round like a coin :)
@petervandenbosch6353
@petervandenbosch6353 Год назад
@@LorenLemcke Thanks.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
@@petervandenbosch6353 I might do another video showing a variety of those caps in different conditions :)
@TheTimijay
@TheTimijay Год назад
@@LorenLemcke yes I find the flat ones often behave coin like. I also find that if I really slow down and swing slightly over an iffy target it loses the crisp tone and the tone drags and clips slightly on folded targets like crushed bottle tops. We are plagued with theses type of tops in Australia too. Thanks for the video.
@donaldlee6699
@donaldlee6699 Год назад
Undisputedly, the Manticore with the 2D screen has 'much more' information to provide; ergo, as the operators are getting the detector in their hands much more will begin to be revealed/understood? Which one of the detectors has the best discrimination/separation? It may well be the Manticore? To entertain going out and playing in the dirt to only dig rusty nails, bottle caps, and can slaw is certainly not my way of entertainment in spending an excessive amount of money for 'treasure'. I may add the Manticore to my collection later. I have the White's Spectra V3i, and the Equinox 800. The V3i, and the Manticore may be in a class together with adequate information on the screen to determine if it is 'trash' or not? Is any of those detectors capable of 'unmasking'? To unmask one would assume Superman vision and be able to penetrate through one target, and see another? lol Could the term 'false positive' simply be a shallow terminology for a ghost (phantom) 'target' that is there, and then after you break the ground 'breaking' the halo effect and there is 'nothing' there? ? ? Thus, a 'false positive'. You have put together a good video. Thanks for the video.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Thank you! The V3i is a detector I would love to swing someday :) I haven't had the chance yet. To me a false positive is anything the machine call non-ferrous and then you dig it up and it is actually ferrous. But you could define a false positive in exactly the way you described, a phantom target. I guess a false positive could come in a variety of flavors :)
@angelignaciosanchez386
@angelignaciosanchez386 Год назад
Hola compañero una pregunta cuál detector de metales me aconseja mejor Manticore o equinox 900 gracias saludos
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Both are great detectors and there is no wrong decision to be made. Equinox 900 as of present is a more proven platform and has a wider variety of coils, both official and 3rd party. The Manticore is a bit new, but it's current advantages from what I can gather are primarily enhanced EMI mitigation and an extra layer of information about the target, with a very modest gain of depth. I wouldn't worry about making a bad decision, both are great for a variety of reasons.
@kilner79
@kilner79 Год назад
put a round coin on edge
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
I actually tried this with a few coins, but they kept painting the same round dot regardless of their orientation, even as I circled around them. I really thought orientation would show on the 2D screen, but I couldn't find any indication of that. I will keep playing with it.
@RogLotHotHoW
@RogLotHotHoW Год назад
Please give these detectors a shower.
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
I did that once but it turned my shower brown 😂. This is clay mud, which becomes super sticky and thick when wet. It's easier to let it dry and then flake off.
@bigdowglb
@bigdowglb Год назад
About how long your manticore battery lasts on a charge?
@LorenLemcke
@LorenLemcke Год назад
Seems like 6 to 8 hours.
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