Teaching a Modern Player to Do Quarter Circles (ft.  

Because despite everything Capcom and other games have done they never actually explained how quarter circles work.

No. This has zero to do with being seasoned. We figured out QCF motions the very week SFII released in arcades in NA. NO ONE was seasoned when they came out but EVERYBODY could do a QCF. This isn’t someone who has never touched a video game in their life, this is a gamer admitting on video they can’t figure out something that my 13 year old self did the very first time I played SFII. Like wow.

Honestly even if he didnt know stuff like holding down counts as part of an input or the DP shortcut all he needed was to be told was " press the button at the same time as the end of the motion" + believing in himself more. I know everyone can do motion inputs if they just believed and tried harder.

Well I learnt all the input tricks myself around a year ago when I first start playing fighting games in third strike so it’s not a problem of games not providing information

​@@OberynTheRedViperbrother you're like 50 years old out here leaving some of the most embarrassing RU-vid comments I've ever seen. I'd say get some help but we both know that isn't happening.

It makes me feel better about learning fighting games

watch the gears start turning in a new fighting game player's brain is the best thing i swear

He is an actor and pretender

Facts, It reminded me of all my "ah ha" moments in fighting games.

🍇

I was hoping Sajam would notice and get distracted talking about numpad notation

I'm not new to fighting games, just haven't played SF and my brain did not understand wtf he was trying to say. I was thinking it was some weird SF specific input.

@@obliquelycod I get that feeling. I’m learning Tekken for the first time to prepare for 8 and things are SO different when compared to SF. I’m looking forward to learning especially with all the cool training/practice features in 8

​@@Michael_Raymondand that why he's a good teacher

​@@Michael_Raymondthat's what makes a good teacher. He found out what was incompatible with the previous instruction and just gave him a shortcut that everyone uses instead.

100%

Have y'all tried just talking to anyone from the community? Usually it goes like this if you don't dwell on how "impossible" a thing is to do

​@@MisterMazokunah, not everyone is a good teacher, not everyone can explain things in a way a newbie can understand

⁠​⁠@@MisterMazoku I agree with you a ton because I tried playing Steve Fox in Tekken and thought his combos were impossible to perform. Then I asked a friend and he discovered all the cancels and broke it down for me to understand it.

@@Liliphant_ how will you know if someone can help if you don’t even try to talk to them ?

I have never really thought of conditioning that way. I knew conditioning helped me to get moves I want to punish But using it to *force* that move is something else

Well this is extremely cut down from the original stream keep in mind.

This is the exact mentality to playing with fireballs. With guile you throw a boom and watch for them to jump so you flash kick them. It’s punishing boiled down to its most fundamental level

Conditioning your opponent in League of Legends (which is the game boxbox is known for) is vital, especially in top lane. Double that for Riven, the character boxbox mained in LoL. She excels at going in and out of range with her E, one slip up and she gets a stun with W and then a fast Q combo deletes your healthbar. In a way, I can see why boxbox was interested in SF6.

Thats funny Especially because allegedly riven’s design was inspired by fighting games Rivens q was the first rekka type move in league i think

New set is coming out on Nov 21st, you can try it out new and fresh

Being good at neutral

This definitely needs to be studied.

Welcome to WHY all of us who have been saying the modern haters need to shut the fuck up, have been saying it. Execution is not the primary point of fighting games. Combos don't MAKE you good at fighting games. Good space control and decision-making do.

@@doublevendetta and I have been on that side since the jump, but Diamond in 50 hours into fgc? To pick up on the fundamentals that fast is really impressive. This is the only time Ive seen anything near that with classic or modern.

@@xooks3050 I mean, dude is already a single percentile level player in another genre, with a playstyle that heavily emphasizes those same core pillars

You can give Tekken 7/8 a try in this case. Outside of very few exceptions, you have time to confirm every hit, and the 1-2 frame links in combos are rare and really not necessary, even at pro play. I've started playing Tekken 7 after grinding about 300 hours of Strive + SF6, and it took me less than 2 hours to get a bnb for 3 common situations with my chosen character, which was really refreshing, I was expecting to take me a lot longer than that, given that I've spent at least tens of hours with Luke in practice mode and I'm no where near consistent with the perfects. The difficult thing was getting used to the combo structure. You have time to confirm every hit, but what is tight is the movement between the hits (dashes, microwalks, etc). There's a case to be made for tournament combos, because in Luke's case, no matter how much people bitch about him beeing too strong, his execution requirement is really high, you lose so much damage and routes if you are not able to hit the perfects consistently, and I've yet to see a pro Luke not drop at least one perfect in an important match.

I play BBCF, UNIST, GGST, GBVS and it's so much tighter in Street Fighter than any other fighting games. The cancel mechanic here is just different and harder than others fighting game. Maybe because of the gatling and chain button system that often appear in Anime Fighter. If you try any other fighting games, it will feel so much much much easier to cancel button into special or button into another button because you can literally wait until animation almost finish and even do it in recovery.

Yeah for SF6 you have to time it, you cannot spam it. I wish I knew this when I first started

@@Hinotoriz for most other games, frame traps by delaying gatlings and rekkas are much more integral to the balance, because it lets you open up people easier, giving you another type of game plan, instead of just strike/throw, like SF is.

@@Hinotoriz Then you get to trying to do peacock and painwheel combos in Skullgirls and want to cry

Makes sense, i can do fighting game combos but im ass at riven 🤷🏿‍♂️

I remember explaining this exact thing to a friend once, and I swear I could see his forehead inflate a bit as his mind was blown.

Yea i love seeing the lightbulb moment from teaching people about buffering

Funny enough, that's a very common thing to happen, even to people who have been playing for years and are good at the game. Specially that tech because it's rarely useful outside of SF and KOF.

If you try to experiment with input you will find different leniency input stuff that can make your activation easier or even give you some "interesting" interactions. I don't think that many knows that full circle is not fully circle, more like 4/6 and you can start spinning it from whatever point you want and whatever direction. Some game lenient enough that you can do this with inputting like "half circle, release finger, up". I think some even don't know that game checking if inputs was executed faster enough and pressing wrong attack button(punch/kick) or direction - game don't erase buffer, i.e. if there is no special move with this commands game still remember what you input before and keep checking something close enough. Just like BoxBox use shortcut to make "special -> super" it can be also used for different things

Don't forget that this guy has been playing games at a very high level for about a decade now, so naturally he'll pick up new techniques at a higher speed. Imagine if a pro guitar player tried playing piano for the first time, their existing dexterity and knowledge of music theory would immediately give them a huge boost. But more importantly, everyone struggles with different things! Some people will do motion inputs like it's nothing but have absolutely terrible resource management, so they lose every other game by going into burnout. If you happen to find motion inputs difficult, then don't be discouraged. It's just one aspect of many, and there are always other elements to focus on and improve (between footsies and spacing, recognizing habits, conditioning, mix-ups, reaction speed, defense, etc). At different points during your progress, you'll be better and worse at different things, that's just the way it goes. As long as you still enjoy the game, keep on playing!

​@@jitsekuilman2492thanks for trying, but yeah, qc and other motion inputs are necessary to enjoy the game. This video is proof, tbh, watch box box go from despair of not being able to beat people who just do more damage than him, to being the one doing more damage and finally seeming happy and interested in the game. Now imagine you never get to the 2nd stage of that. It's pretty easy to say "just work on other areas of your game plan" but that misses the reality of how pervasive motion controls are in fighting games. They are used for specials, normals, traversal options, character gimmicks, shortcuts of even harder motion controls. And the musician comparison is interesting, because this video is built off the axiom that most gamers actually have the skill they just don't know how to apply it. Not that they are struggling with something completely foreign to them because the game design is so vastly different (and hard stuck in the past). Sajam mentions it briefly, but it's core to his argument. "Why would you be unable to do motion controls when you've played fps' and mobas that have just as high APMs?" Well, for starters, the movements of my character in almost ANY other game are completely decoupled from the other mechanics. And if there *is* movement unrelated to the main traversal mechanic, it is a single button, and usually completely optional to the enjoyment of the game and character. Now, I'm not giving up on fighting games, been playing casually for 15+ years, but I'm also not going to sit here and pretend like fighting games are in any way fun or accessible to gamers who can't or won't be able to learn motion controls. I've learned that the hard way over this past decade, with 100s of hours in a couple different games, cumulatively at least a couple thousand total. I am not discouraged that I am not able to beat any online opponents, I am not frustrated that my winrate is probably around 25%. I am discouraged and frustrated that I don't have access to all the things a character can do. Not just the hard things, not just the extremely niche parts of a character's gameplan, the very basics, the "fun" of that character. Imagine you click to shoot a gun in a COD game, and about 50% of the time your character just lurches forward rather than do what you input them to do. Please do not respond to this if it is simply going to be about the specifics of how someone can get better at SF6, or how I just need to focus on drive reversals for now. I understand you might be trying to help, but that's not what this is about. I am not trying to communicate to you how I need someone to just sit down and talk out the motion controls and then I'll just get it eventually. No, I think motion controls are a vestige of an elitist, by gone age where gamers used their knowledge of hidden mechanics to get an edge over their opponent. No one who is decent at fighting games will struggle with motion controls anymore, so what exactly is the point nowadays? The people who struggle with those controls are either facing each other or quitting within a few weeks. All that motion controls do now is reinforce an in group and an out group in fighting games. Any friend I have ever met over the years who is even somewhat interested in smash bros has also been vehemently against even *trying* other fighting games. And when they do, they get stuck in the same rut as people like me. So what's the point? Keeping people out who can't have that consistent hand dexterity? Being able to look down on someone and go "if you just practice more, you'll get it eventually, it's actually super easy"? I don't see the upsides, anywhere. And it's definitely not about skill expression and having a high skill ceiling to be enjoyable to pros; very few, if any, other genres of multiplayer game, even ones with similar skill issues to fighting games, have problems cultivating a competitive scene. And then shit like this video comes along to say "yes fgc, you are valid in dying on this hill! Look at this pro gamer, he can pick up 4 frame windows in one hour, I'm sure you'll do that eventually!" Thanks, I'll keep that in mind on hour 500 of training mode, when I still can't do 10 fireballs in a row.

@@onescenewonder8904 The thing is - it almost same for every competitive game when you use your dexterity and reaction. Drifting in racing games, headshot in FPS, crowd control and micro management in strategies. Or for some single players, like hardcore platformers, or games like Dark Souls series.

I think every fighting game from 2010 or maybe earlier have feature to rearange your position in training. Change position while holding direction was in KI 2013 for example

He has footsies like legit intelligent neutral

Honestly 90% of winning in Street Fighter is making good decisions in neutral. I brought my Ryu to mid Plat with only cr.MK->Donkey Kick as my only combo. Just good spacing and anti-airs is enough to beat most players up until that level.

Slowly but surely learning this. What a sick game. @@brandonkiehl269

​@@brandonkiehl269poke and an anti air. It doesn't matter the game if it's 2d it's probably all you need.

That's why fundamentals is above combo. You can still win with solid fundamentals even if you only know 1 combo.

Don’t be so hard on yourself. Modern players play differently and have godlike neutral.

Yep help me alot when I found it

That’s actually embarrassing for 90% of the player base. Unless his neutral is just unbelievably godlike and that’s how he’s ranking up.

Boxbox probably has more gamer time than you overall. Playing league at a high level definitely teaches great neutral and spacing.

@@snowys4168 I have a lot of “gamer time” but I didn’t know he was a pro league player, MOBAs aren’t my scene at all. Fair enough, but my point still stands I think.

He's a modern Luke. He won the game at character select. BTW there's no shame in using a top tier character who benefits greatly from the modern system.

He said it in the vid. Good neutral game but unoptimal punish combos which is what he learns in the vid

And he didnt even know half the mechanics. This is very interesting.