You’re a brave man using CAT remans on a 3116. I put a full set of remans in an 3116 powered F-750 years back. 4 were bad right out of the box. Got 4 more under new parts warranty and two of those were bad. There were no more remans at the closest depot so the dealer I worked for agreed to put 6 new ones in. Everyone was happy except me…basically doing injectors three times in an F-750 where half the engine was under the cab really made me contemplate my life choices that brought me to that situation. Cylinders 1-4 under the hood then take all the tooling in the cab to do 5-6 through the dog house…
I've done many rack adjustments on the 3116 engines. Very time consuming and a pain in the A**! Not too many people know how to do it. Love your channel Brother! Keep up the good work!! 👍🍻🍻
More than 20 years ago I had an old Cat guy I worked with say you don't need to ream the coppers if you seat the injector with the seating tool. I was thought he was nuts and lived by what the book says. Tried it and found out He was right. Now I only ream coppers if there is pitting in the seat area of the copper. I usally shine them up and press a new injector in the the seating tool.
I've done quite a few of these from overhaul to injector replacement and adjustment, the hardest part was getting through the CAT manual on the first one I did, too confusing , but once I did more and more I could streamline the process and could say that I was satisfied with my results, a smooth running time bomb !
You can remove and reinstall any injector except #1 without having to re sync every injector, once you remove #1 you must re sync them all. Usualy I find guys who have never been shown do the rack sync wrong due to the wording in the book and end up with low power.👍
On Volvo D9 engine out of the g970 graders the cups were changed out every time. The original injector used copper washers but the replacement used a tapered cup and end on the injector
I remember in 1993 in Greenland at summit drilling camp they had 2 3116 gensets one Genset had leaking injector, copper seat. And the cat dealer would not sell me the tools to install the copper seat so I had to put together a kit of tools for the mechanic out there new cylinder, head torque wrench I believe they already have the injector setting tools.
Looking at the older injector at 2:19, you can see the area above the seal it is about 3/8 of an inch wide, The other injector that is replacing it only about an 1/4 wide! That way it press in to the copper with more force in a small area. Then when you use the press down tool to force it in more to the copper, and you can see when your torquing it again it turns the bolt about a 1/4 turn insuring better holding of injector!
You actually crease the copper cup with the injector when you press it in. I only ream copper now if that crease area is pitted. If it looks ok I shine it up a bit and press it in again.
Just like the old 2 stroke Detroit. Roll the cups in, fill with coolant and pressure test, install injectors, rack or racks, rockers, adjust valves, time injectors using the right pin, adjust racks. I spent 4 hours on an 8v71T just adjusting the rack. Get one side done then the other side was too tight.
I see after you reamed the injector cup it looked like it had chatter marks try using a Speeder Handle I have worked on hundreds of the 3116 when they came out. I love watching your videos
Oh sure Josh, i’m surprised you didn’t know it, but those cat reamer tools have multi-use purposes.., such as a punch, or counter sinking a nail, or peening in a detent ball etc., Hahaha..! Not really, just being a smart aleck.., but you know that is why that reamer is all beat to crap. Great video, looking forward to part 2, Thank you sir.
Just to add about the o-ring on tip. When you torque onto tip o-ring it will work for a sort time. With temp and time the o-ring will deteriorate and allow the injector shift down away from hold down bolt compromising clamping force
These engines are a whole thing in them self's. I would have cleaned up the reamer in a lathe at the damaged location, then added more shims to start. I used a speed handle to turn the reamer, so I could push down with some force, get it down then lighten up toward the end to smooth the finish tapper. I also cleaned off grease and used a light coat of grease on reamer then do the reamer one more time, this usually gives a good finish no chatter marks ! Do not turn the reamer back wards, can damage the reamer or dull it. When putting in the injector get it down in, turn it to engagement of the rack, then move rack back and forth to make sure it is free moving in the fork so it is not giving a preload on the fork and you get easy move meet of rack.
And then there's me. Took the cylinder head off my neighbor's 3114 saying I could help. Looks like I'm going to try to fabricate all this tooling myself, except I'll purchase the reamer head separate. Wish me luck!
Your more of an expert than most people who comment on videos saying they know a better way to do things lol at least you have done it a couple times lol 😂 I couldn’t resist buddy great video love watching always learn something when I watch thanks for sharing There’s different types of brass when I sold scrap metal they bought it as yellow brass and red brass that could be a red or just a brass alloy my guess
Cat also say no chatter marks, I found out use shims, and a drill on low speed no down pressure, they come out great, I always pressurized the coolant system after cutting all cups, and installing injectors, At Ransome Cat, one mechanic cut cups put everything back to find out when he seated the injector it cracked the cup, it was most likely cut before. Pretty much same thing as 3126
Emd 2 cycle unit injectors are much simpler to do. One typically skips the rack adjustment when replacing a single injector. I’d check it with the tooling, and if it was within the window on the tool/gauge, it shipped. I’m not even sure if there is a cup reamer in the shop for dressing the seat in the head. I don’t think I’ve seen one floating around in the 20+ years I’ve been there. I remember some old timers saying one side of the engine thermal expands slightly more throwing out the adjustments on the racks on one bank, but I never found that to be the case.
The press tool when it came out was supposed to take to place of reaming. I ream some still if it had compression blowing by. But most of time press them in without reaming. I have had to redo some because not sealing reaming and not reaming. The smallest piece of trash will get you. And in the mines and plants when medium dozers and wheel loaders had 3116 or 3114 none would break in a clean place.
you should set a two stroke detroit rack, lol cats are easy, leaving oil in those bolt holes will split the head using power tools, you should show the old rack if its the rivet one that needed the update,
Go 2mm over and it’ll advance timing and help with cold starts 👍🏻 ALWAYS run the lower “suicide” o ring. It will allow carbon to seal the cups after being reemed and will make life easier.
Better you than me. I hate these engines and stay away from them. One thing we tried was to use a speed handle to ream the seat. With a ratchet, you had the tendency to stop and get another bite. With a speed handle you can keep a steady rotation on the cutting tool. Also Carpenter make a aftermarket tool that was a lot easier over the Cat tool group to set injector synchronization.
Lot of following procedures there. They made it a bit complicated but if you have the proper information it should work. Surprised that the original ones had the o ring on the bottom but new ones don’t. You’d think that would cause placement issues. Great job on it.
The injectors were redesigned to have a short length tapper seating area, and with the tool to press the injector down then re-tighten the bolt made a big difference. The seal was not needed after the update to the injector.
I’ve done 3 of these over the last 8 years. For injector, rack replacement and top end adjustment. An old timer told me to match fuel screw setting on new rack and sync injectors. Worked great each time. How wrong am I? Lol
Use a speedwrench and skip the shims, slow steady turns, NO pressure, let the weight of the tool cut it, and please, NO ratchet. You'll get a butter smooth seating surface, pull it out every few turns and look for the old seating groove from the injector. Once the seating groove is gone, you're done, DON'T go any further. Save that cup for next time you need to shave them. Been there done that many times.
You need to put more time into reaming the copper, that area needs to be super nice, you left chatter marks, that area is susceptible to passing combustion gas. We do not want come backs. You have to develop a technique of smooth turning and even pressure and thinner shims so you can cut .001". That carbide cutter wants to dig into the copper if you take too big of a bite. This step is the most important part of the job
I wonder if those brass seats are red brass instead of the much more common yellow brass. I don't know if I've ever seen red brass but I heard about it probably in a bar somewhere. Keep the good stuff coming buddy.
In my opinion the 3116 is one of the slowest and under horsepowered Cat engines that were built. I ran many medium duty wreckers with these engines and all of them were gutless especially the rollbacks with the automatic transmissions.
A lot of those engines were under 200 hp. Not the 3116's fault they were starved for fuel. We had service trucks that were 190 hp and lower. Yeah they were gutless. Backed out the fuel screw a bit and it would come alive.
The 3116s could be rated for up to 250 hp and 650 tq in the Topkicks and Kodiaks, but most came with 170 hp to 215 hp. Some fire trucks actually came with a 300 hp 732 tq version, but those are ultra rare.
Whenever I see a procedure for cutting the cylinder head to renew a seal, like valves or in this case the injector body seat, it makes me wonder why they decided upon that approach. In the case with valves, since the mfr's have gone to stellite seats the valve becomes the donor for wear. Which makes sense to me, the valve is less costly to replace than the entire head or seat replacements. In the case of the injector body seal, I wonder why they didn't use a compression washer made out of copper that you could simply replace. The seat area looks the color of copper on my computer screen, and you even said it looks like copper, but when you cut it brinelling reveals the hardness of brass. But, a copper gasket, similar to a brake caliper banjo-bolt and washer seems like it would work, it's only combustion pressure, not fuel injection hydraulic pressure. But, who knows? Maybe they got a patent on the cutting tool. Remember they're in business to make money, and even though it may not seem prudent, they want to make money where ever they can and if that means tools, oh well. ben/ michigan
The injector system is the same as the two cycle Detroit Diesel. I run a C-12. The manifold pressure has gone from 32 PSI to 20 PSI. Little loss of power, but slow to respond when throttling up. Any ideas. My guess is transfer pump is going haywire. Thanks
I have rebuilt somewhere around 15 of those and several 3114 engines. I hate the overhead on those engines. Our shop actually goes out and installs those copper/brass injector sleeves in, in the chassis. Did I say I hate the overhead on those engines.
Went to the equipment expo in Las Vegas when the 3500's and the 3100's first came out! Talked to the Cat representative, making Detroit's now, got a dirty look. Guess it should be easy to work on then, we both laughed and he showed me some of the workings. I was working for a Cat dealer ship!
The injector cone shape changed over the years. That old reamer sucks for the later cones. Also Cat's reamers have issues with some being not hardened correctly and they dull fast. Also the sleeves updated and who knows who manufacturers them now. Ive been seeing 3116/3126 MUI engines one after another for a couple years now-marine application. The local Cat dealer wont work on them. The company I work for now has spent well over $10,000 to support these little turds. Injectors are getting hard to find...even crappy reman. We bench/pop test them - against Cat's recommendations. Theres a company that makes an aftermarket reamer that works much better than the standard Cat reamer.
hello the 3125 marine engine does it cary a orange inside the chamber for the injector sleeve cup .need your help here ASAP my coolant is mixing with oil, await your quick reply
Which fuel system? Unit injectors? Unit injectors have been very widely used industrially until common rail became a thing. Without knowing it, i'd imagine you'd finde a lot of semi trucks with unit injectors in that size range. I know you asked I6, but the EMD 567/645 is a good example of a large engine using unit injectors.
hello the 3125 marine engine does it cary a Oring inside the chamber for the injector sleeve cup .need your help here ASAP my coolant is mixing with oil await your reply thanks
