Exactly, she was already in trouble with the law for some other offense & as part of her probation terms, was told she had to do her school work, but she chose not to, so, violated the terms of her probation & that is why she is currently locked up.
This triggered some memories for me. In middle school I was bullied heavily, the school told me to be more normal and I'll be left alone. I still wouldn't go to school, didn't feel like being stoned, laughed at for eating food, or have my work stolen and trashed. So the school decided, if I didn't go to class every day, including high school, I would get a chins/have a chins on me. I didn't understand then, and don't now. I was told I could be taken from my family and put in foster care because I wouldn't go to school. I've never liked school since then and never trusted a teacher. Even in college I struggle from flashbacks.
Your middle school officials should be facing criminal charges for child endangerment, aiding and abetting battery of a minor and for obstructing justice by failing to report multiple accounts of felony crimes against you as a minor.
I read this a few days ago. I think the key here is by what was stated at the judge, the student has made no efforts to attend online classes or do the work. That speaks a lot. As a former PO, efforts to comply with condition did go a long way. "Ok, so you got 457 out of 500 hours of community service completed, but you are struggling with transportation? Sure, at your violation hearing I'd be agreeable to giving you another 60 days to complete it." versus "You have had a full 12 months and haven't completed even 1 hour of community service? Explain it to the judge."
correct. The judge was probably quite correct in sending the girl to a detention center, probably under a regime where she's monitored doing her schoolwork, something that she apparently in unwilling to do voluntarily or even under threat of punishment, and seems her parents aren't willing or able to motivate and monitor her either. If the judge had let this slip and sent the girl home without punishment, she'd have learned that breaking the law carries no consequences, which is a far worse situation than her being thrown into juvenile detention until she learns that there indeed are consequences for breaking the law.
There is not the info to say this one way or the other. With COVID the goal posts have clearly moved on probation but it hard to say how much. On one hand you can have the schools saying there should be no problem working from home or you might have 1/2 school trying and failing to get any work submitted. And you might even have both but the judge only hearing the story from the school’s point of view that’s has a vested interest in say there was no problem their end. It does sound like the something that should be double checked but it possible the judge was right in the first place.
@@TTnarg1 Ohh, if Grace would quickly tell the judge that she has a lot of stuff done, and wants to show all the work done from her OneDrive, the judge would be probably open to accepting the evidence. Also, witnesses can tell when she was up, online, and active, etc. While you have the right to remain silent and it cannot be used directly against you in the court, as you might be silent because you want to keep an unrelated secret, but when not only you are silent, but your counsel is silent as well and you have no defense, no evidence that at least hints at a different course of events? The court isn't required to spin and investigate various fairy tales on taxpayer money to give you more chances.
I'm so glad you are all qualified neurologists with the experience necessary to condemn her for being an evil monster posing an apocalyptic threat for oversleeping.
I had a bumpy start to my life; divorce and parental neglect. I ended up in Juvi and ultimately 2-year sentence in a boy's home. As the years passed I ended up, got drafted (Vietnam) and straightened my life out. Got a college degree, worked as a professional for many-a-year; to include several years as a science teacher. Bottom line, I believe there is hope for this young lady. I hope she believes this is so. Because of her journey in life, she may make an ideal guidance counselor.
glad you made it past your challenges. It all depends on how she reacts, which will determine if she is able to make it or not. Sometimes people need to be made aware they are accountable for their actions.
@@groofromtheup5719 In all candor, I was fortunate to have role models who helped straighten my life. After being released from court-ordered detention i got involved in sports, and my coaches demanded behavior that reflected favorable to the team. In her situation I don't believe she has been given a pass; more so - an opportunity. She may be too young to recognize that at this point in her life. I hold out hope she too ends up with role models that influence her to put her as-yet-developed talents to the benefit of society. Lastly, after several years of high school science teaching I met several delinquents in my classes that by the end of the school year they had turned themselves around. But I must confess I met some that seemed to be criminal minds; hope not.
This really sets out most of what you need to know about how youth court should, and can work. Most young criminals got bumped on to the wrong course, and helping them on to the right course is often possible, and very much the best option, for everyone.
So she was actually jailed for assault and theft. Sensationalist headline just to sell papers. Maybe she should have taken it to trial if she couldn't abide by the terms she agreed to.
Steve, due to a "preponderance of circumstances" female family member (age 14) stayed with me for a time. Before landing with me, Punishments were hardly enforced. With me, she had trouble understanding that if I put her on restriction I mean it, I would not forget in an hour or a day. Long story short, after many "Sit down and listen to me" discussions, I told her if she kept on the way she was going she would end up in trouble with the law and their method of dealing with her would be harsher. After leaving my home, a few years later, while she was on probation for bad checks, and still writing bad checks, she tried to pay her probation fines with a bad check. In a SPECTACULAR "America's dumbest criminals" move, she ran from the court pay window when they attempted to arrest her for the bad check, jumped into a running police car and attempted to flee hitting 3 parked cars in the process. Some people just don't understand how their actions relate to their consequences, she is this way. Some people may call it a "bad seed" I just say she cannot understand what she is told and can only learn the hard way. By the way, she got good grades, so she was not dumb ademicaly. I just think that she never believed that she would be held accountable for what she was told would happen.
Far too many people don't really believe they will be held accountable for their actions. I have a niece like that. She's in her mid 20s and still doesn't get it. The only reason she isn't in jail is because she's too timid to get into much trouble but I fear that one day her luck is going to run out.
@@orppranator5230 Yes, I can agree. Her mother never expected any repercussions from her sleeping around and her father did not have a spine. The niece kept pointing to how other people got away with X or Y as a reason she should not be held responsible. There was plenty evidence, I pointed out, both at school and at my house that it would not work out that way for her. Her half brother said he thought she was suffering from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. I don't know but I only had her for a short time and only knew one way to deal with her. She crossed the line one too many and was sent back to live in a tent with her parents while they were trying to reconcile yet again.
@@danieldudzik6470 That does sound like a long history of actions not having consequences in her formative years taught her a lesson, which went deep, that actions don’t have consequences. That’s clearly been a lesson which had not served her well, possibly compounded by what sound like some difficult home circumstances.
When I was 17, I got a speeding ticket. I went to the court, and the judge told me to write an essay on the dangers of speeding and he would dismiss the ticket without a fine. He also told me if I agreed but didn't submit the essay by the due date, I would spend a night in jail for contempt. Needless to say, I turned in the essay on time. Our legal system is based on personal responsibility and if you can't or won't take responsibly, then you will suffer.
I don't really understand I would have just paid the ticket, what if your essay wasn't up to his standards, seems like a bad deal to be honest why extend your interaction with a person threatening you with jail.
A local TV anchormen told me recently, "Bad news is good news." That is why headlines read, "Teen jailed for not doing homework" versus "Teen placed in detention for probation violation."
My son and some other football players were on probation during high school for vandalizing a rival teams field. And part of his stipulation was he had to behave at school and do all required homework. This was way before pandemic and he completed it.
In my county 2% of people complete probation successfully. . . The judges used to love to send kids to the private prison nearby. It has many cameras in the bathrooms and showers where the owners can remotely watch from their home 50 miles away
I've noticed over the last 30 year's or so, the media outlets are more more concerned with ratings and publications then the facts or the reasons why events should be news worthy
If she was having difficulty keeping up, she and a parent or guardian should have reached out to her guidance counselor, special needs team (if she had one), teachers, vice-principal, about the difficulties she was having, and the steps to be taken to overcome her problems. This should be done keeping her probation officer in the loop. This way the judge could see that if she had not completed her work and/or signed in each day that due diligence to correct the issues had been taken. If this was done, then the judge should never have sent her back to Juvenile Detention. If this was not done, the judge could have given her 2 or 3 weeks to work with the school to see she her disabilities (covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act) were being given the attention needed. If the judge was shown that she had been offered assistance to meet her special needs (i.e. ADHD) yet she ignored those attempting to help her, then the judge's hands may have been tied at that point. I can tell you from experience, that if your child has special needs impacting grades, reaching out to educators as soon as possible is necessary. Most of the time assistance is offered, but not always. It differs with each school, educator, and district.
I learned my lesson early on about the law and probation when some kids I was with decided to break into a business and I went home. I had a cool probation officer who came to a few wrestling tournaments I was in and helped me with some chores on my grandparents farm and let me off probation 4 months into a year's sentence. The other kids all had prior experience with the court and were sentenced to juvenile home. I've always picked my friends more carefully since
I was once released from probation early because my probation officer told the court that keeping me on supervision would "accomplish nothing but wasting taxpayer resources that could be better used elsewhere."
@@ianbattles7290 the probation officer just told me I was done and he better never see me again and wished me good luck. I did see him years later at a county fair I was with my wife and small children.he said he had been keeping tabs on me and he knew I was in the navy at the time . Said he keeps up on all of his kids. Kinda strange but he was one of the good ones
@@leedobbyn1602"His kids." I love that. Too many POs are just clocking time until retirement after years in another career, or embody the paper pusher stereotype (or worse, got into this profession as a power trip), so it heartens me to hear of those that know how they can guide others to better choices.
I have severe ADHD, if I ever had issues with doing my homework and just sat there not bothering, I was told to enjoy the zero. The fact that she has a disability does not mean she's to be pampered all her life, hope this wakes her up.
We have a number of children whose primary lesson from their parents was this: "I won't allow anyone to find you accountable for anything." I've known kids like these. The rude awakening comes when Mommy can't get them out of trouble any more. That's when we get these stories...
@@dmo7815 You’re mostly right I think, the discrepancy is she hasn’t actually realized that she’s not, she still thinks she’s special while more grounded people are showing her that she’s not.
I have a suspicion that "Grace" simply refused to cooperate or even try.. Leaving the Judge not many choices..As you stated..We were not there.. but it probably wasn't pretty..🤔
Ah yes, good old malicious speculation. Is there anyone in this comment section that isn't out for blood? She fell behind in school work. If that work was so damn important to that judge, she would be at her computer, not behind bars.
@@TheMegalusDoomslayer "fell behind schoolwork" is one thing. When the judge states after knowing the fact that she hasn't submitted **any** schoolwork, that is an established fact and paints a very different picture. But as we know that as a way to challenge parental authority she ended up physically attacking a family member, and similar conflicts are common in their family even according to her. She didn't take full responsibility for the problem but tried to share it with the victim, which is always a very bad thing. And as not doing any schoolwork, risking probation, created another escalating problem... Also, she decided to commit a crime even after there was a criminal charge against her. For the judge schoolwork wasn't important. It was just a sign, that she at least has some respect for authority and her mom, by at least doing some schoolwork, at least trying to be up a few times, etc. because she no longer wants to escalate any problems. Because if she keeps escalating problems, that will end up in more violence against her mother. When she does nothing for a day, that is some tension. On the 2nd day, it is escalated tension for repeating the same thing two days in a row... So it isn't only "not doing anything, so not giving many chances for the judge" but it is an even bigger problem.
@@gergelyvarju6679 The mother has stated that as "Grace" grew, her problems started showing. Grace has ADHD. That means she needs motivation to still still in class. A huge problem with this country is treating mental health issues as criminal problems. Trying to force mental health issues to conform with physical restraint isn't going to end well. Every 15 y/o goes the same rebellious period. That is part of growing up. Most get past that stage without it involving physical violence. Yet, for a sizable number of teens, physical altercations with parents do happen. (I can remember from my own youth 50+ years ago that more than one kid had their attitude adjusted by a father.) Others in her class were not completing assignments and there was a great deal of confusion on assignments. And it has been reported that neither the Judge nor Probation Officer contacted the school.
@@alanmcentee3035 She got the probation for assault and larceny, neither of them are mental health issues. And while ADHD would prevent concentrating on schoolwork for any longer period of time, it wouldn't prevent starting it.
The biggest takeaway that I am left with is the ridiculous statement that she was a danger to the community for not doing her homework. If she was a danger to the community why the hell did the judge give her probation? Apparently the judge thinks doing your homework is the variable that decides if you are dangerous or not.
She was a danger to the community because she has convictions for violence and theft. The judge had details of the offences and circumstances which led her to think they showed facts about the offender that suggested they showed elements of the offender which made her a danger. She was given a chance, and she seems to have blown it. I’m deeply sympathetic to her, but it’s not impossible there is a good reason to think that she has the potential to be dangerous.
The parents are at fault here...mom calls because she raised an entitled child. Start holding parents for the actions of their children that they allowed....
Steve, I think that you explained this very clearly, and outlined the case to the best of your ability. I understood every aspect of the case as you delivered it, and God knows that I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree! Kudos!
Honestly at 15 looking back I feel like my life would have been worst if I got caught doing the things I did. You kind of just grow out of those things you don't need the hard arm of the law to get you in line.
@@Yophillips3272 As a teen, she will probably have these records sealed so they will not haunt her. I don't agree with putting her in jail, (I do wonder if it gave her a reality check?) But she needs to shape up. If she won't do her homework, will she get a job and goof off? Will this behavior continue? Only she can answer that. A person can be smart and lazy and succeed. A person can be dumb and hard working and succeed. If she is dumb and lazy, she isn't going to have a good life. I'm glad you grew out of it, as did I. Still, some more effort when I was younger, (and some professional help and a proper diagnosis,) would have made my life a lot better! I hope she gets the help she needs, and gets motivated.
Her being a minor, all the details in this are going to be impossible to get. When I heard the "She went to jail for not doing her homework" there was a lot more to it. I very long time ago I had a classmate who was on probation for doing something stupid, part of his probation was attend school, not get in trouble at school, and get passing grades, he did okay and ended up passing, and clearing his probation.
In the late 80s I went to school with a guy who got 6 months juvenile detention for getting a D in a class. He told me his probation was all Cs or higher and perfect attendance. When he got back he was a LOT better. It did help him out. He did end up going to adult jail later, but that was a totally different thing and only for a week or so. That was ruled an accident. He realized that he had to control himself or there would be consequences. Last I heard he was selling used cars and was doing well. The judge in this case may be right. It is hard to tell.
Great explanation. You broke it down and covered each piece. My kid struggled with online school but hey, that is irrelevant in this case as you so aptly explained. Soo, she's in the adult realm where violation of probation is a serious event and she got caught. I hope they do the right thing and she gets help as she has certainly learned a hard lesson in the college of hard knocks.
Thanks for the explantion, Steve. That makes it much easier to understand. I was outraged at first, but the probation part makes it much easier to understand. I'm good now.
The girl has got to be a nightmare, if her own mom reported her for assault. She deserves detention, especially since she threw away her second chance.
From a local perspective. You need to understand a few years back, a judge in the same court locked up two kids (if I remember correctly she was about 8 and he was about 12) for refusing to have a social-able lunch with their father. The kids stated that he was physically abusive to their mother and therefore wanted nothing to do with him. In locking them up, the judge berated the kids, tried to scare them (telling the girl that she would have to pee in front of everyone else) and also called them derogatory names. The kids stood their ground and she did lock them up.
i think that was the tsimhoni case. She even sent them to a wilderness camp too and also mom was denied access for so long. if he was allowed to get total custody he could have moved them easily to his other country and she the mom wo uld have fewer rights to custody in that countrys courts. They kept punishing her and punishing mom and she was a doctor. they also caused problems with her work too.
Ok I'm in another state with a high school student on virtual learning. Our experience is as follows. Teachers are more attentive to the children in the physical class (an option here). My child has had teachers who abandoned the virtual students. We'd email and no response. I'd call no response. I email teacher with principal CC'd - response. When is the last time you had children in public school? Councilors don't call parents back and always claim to be "busy." They call only when you contact the principal or school board. That's how this crap work and my child is honors and has never been wrote up. There is ZERO help for virtual students so when a child does not understand the work they're on their own. I help, but many parents work etc etc. Also the work assigned to virtual students is not the same as the seated students. Virtual are actually required to do more work via the platforms and takes up to 2-3hrs per class, unlike seated students. It probably wouldn't matter if she tried those teachers are worthless.
This is totally true essentially. When i was in middle school i got a ticket for fighting, so i had to do a couple weeks probation and part of it was i had to have C's or better and since i did not they kept escalating the sentence. So they added months to the probation, added house arrest, added extracurricular activities including a basketball thing that was run by my PO and i had to do hours of work. Every couple weeks or so i had to go before the judge and they extended the probation until the year was almost over and the judge said it was stupid to keep all the stuff going just because of my grades so he let me off.
@@TheMegalusDoomslayer district i think. Happened in 2007 or so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we only have a federal courthouse and a smaller courthouse here and it was in the smaller of the two.
Steve, thank you for the excellent job you do explaining situations in a clear, detailed manner that all (except maybe the most simple-minded) should be able to comprehend in an entertaining manner. Keep bringing clarity.
I taught the expelled student program solo for Monroe & Erie Mason 1998-2008 before it was broken up into 4 teachers due to No Child Left Behind legislation. I worked with many probation officers and many students had specifications beyond the program. I can relate to this situation. My certifications were in English Lang. & Lit. and also in Emotional Impairments. Retired, and no I do not plan to come out of retirement.
ADHD is a real physiological disorder caused by a chemical deficiency. It expresses in impulsive behavior-such as taking stuff, impulse buying, etc. I wonder why the parent wasn’t held accountable. I know 15 is that transitional age between adolescence and adulthood, but she is classified as a minor for a reason. Having suffered ADHD, you don’t outgrow it (the chemical deficiency doesn’t suddenly correct itself) as much as you learn to cope and manage it. Only took me about 40 years to get it under control.
@@groofromtheup5719 do you know any one that ended up in the psychiatric ward because of ADHD? ADHD effects executive fission making and cause major depression
The Prosecutor has now recommended release. The judge is unmoved, despite the poor educational resources where she is held and the risk of Covid infection in the facility. So what's really happening here?
Actually the fact that the assault charge was brought by her own mother shows me that the probability of the judge being in the right to send her away is high. After all who would have been the one having to enforce these probation rules, the mother. Who's the one who is apparently so disrespected and ignored that the child assaulted her the mother. Seems like this girl needed the sentence instead of probation.
And youre absolutely certain the assault charges did not stem from the girl defending herself from her mother? A kid diagnoised with adhd is automatically at fault in law enforcements eyes....yes i know officers that openly say that...
@@johnjacob7997 I do not believe that adhd = automatically being in the wrong myself. If the girl was only defending herself, that's even a better reason, in a way, to get her away from home though.
You can have a class weighted with as much as 75% of your grade reliant on your final, particularly in a rush curricula situation like zooming. If you got a progress report one quarter through terms with a project not due yet, no midterm, no final, poor attendance because you didn't have internet working correctly or overslept or whatever because your a teenager with a parent at work and don't have great organizational skills to begin with you could be looking at 15/100% easily. When the court got the grades they probably went through the registrar or an online portal with no context. But regardless, Steve your correct, these are symptoms indicative of a problem, treat the problem not the symptoms, or worse as done here, exacerbate the illness into metastatic criminality.
It's too bad that judges are allowing their personal need to follow the law to get in the way of helping and guiding the kids. They need the guidance more than the punishment
I personally like the way you did this story. Because, I didn't know that Grace was black until you said it, 3/4s of the way thru the video. As a black person myself. All I ask of the justice system, is to treat black and white (poor and rich) the same way.
If you have ADHD, structure in your life is important. Consistent consequences for behavior are important. It sounds as if 'Grace' was not waking up for her courses, not attending on-line, and not doing assignments. If the court has the legal right to impose conditions on her probation then the court has the obligation to enforce those conditions. I am a retire Juvenile Detention Teacher, I would not look forward to having Grace in my classroom, but I've had enough 'Graces' to know that doing the best for Grace means setting expectations she can accomplish and procedures that she can abide by within the confines of the detention center.
correct. As her parents are apparently incapable and/or unwilling to provide the correct environment and incentives for the girl to meet the terms of her probation, juvenile detention is the best place for her right now. It may not be a nice place, but it not being a nice place is one of the incentives it provides for wanting to do what it takes to get out of there, which means doing your school work.
this is the first ive heard of this story, and i was very confused until around 13:10, because i kept thinking "okay its technically a probation violation but that doesn't make it ok??" but then you said "its being reported that in michigan if you dont do your homework you go to jail, but she was on probation" and i realized your point
So, she broke her probation. She didn't get locked up just for not doing her homework, but because she broke her probation for theft & assult. It sucks, but she made the decision to break the probation she agreed to. Why didn't the parents make sure she did her homework, by getting her tutoring help if she is truly ADHA? It doesn't matter that others didn't do their homework, because they were not on probation, and hadn't made a deal to be on probation instead of going to trial. Not the same situation at all. This girl will never learn this life lesson with everyone arguing she shouldn't be held accountable.
Steve, the number one goal of prosecutors and judges is to make money for the government. It is not about justice at all or solving problems. That is why a huge portion of those in jail/prison are there for owing money.
as someone with adhd ima speak on that and as she was diagnosed by a medical professional with adhd. and the courts should take our medical history into account, we have impulse control issues can be helped with meds and other things not saying she shouldn't face what she did was unlawful. but was she on meds did she forget to take them is her parents the type that feel they don't need to give their kids drugs. if she's on meds are they the right meds and dose for her. even with meds we still have adhd we have focus issues common task you do everyday can be hell for us. we live in a world not built for us and so few people willing to work with us or do any research to understand why we are they way we are and understand what we go through on a daily basis. there could be factors that means she was set to fail her probation from the start. if she's not adhd and her mother just using it as an excuse or just think she's is without a diagnosis then the judge could have delayed stuff so her mother could have her tested so he could make a fair ruling knowing all factors involved
I was on probation in Minnesota in 1987 and it was in lieu of jail time. I remember the judge saying that probation is a tool to help me out in life and that I should use it
Communication and the lack thereof often causes the most problems. The biggest thing is if she was truly having trouble with doing the schoolwork due to the remote learning environment, she should have asked for help. Especially if Grace'd been diagnosed with ADHD, she should have been getting extra help for that. Our culture has made it hard for people to be willing to ask for help and for diminishing the importance of a basic education. Grace was probably of the "Oh, well, who cares?" about homework and didn't believe she would get repercussions if no one else she knew was getting them.
👇Meanwhile, in Saudi Arabia: 👇 - A young student got beheaded in public square for missing his school/homework 📚 - A huge crowd had gathered cheering in support of the beheading 🤦♂️
Many commenters on this vid have mentioned "context" which really means "perspective". You, Duran, have IDed the ultimate perspective. Many Muslims are good folks who are simply unaware that Islam is a terrible, deadly disease. Saudi Arabia is besetted by this disease. It should be quarantined.
I heard she has an IEP, which is a binding legal document, which means the school district MUST do certain things. Is there any info if the IEP has been fulfilled or not?
No students received the same level of support and instruction during the shutdown, but students with IEPs definitely did not receive the services they require to learn. The system failed.
This. So much this. Beyond an IEP being legally binding it is a positive affirmation of their rights to a free and appropriate education IN THE LEAST RESTRICTIVE ENVIRONMENT POSSIBLE. The failure here was the lack of an appropriate advocate on her behalf. I'm sure her lawyer was fine for juvenile court but she needed someone who knows education law as well.
Thank you for addressing this. I can't tell you how many people I had to explain this to, and I'm not a lawyer. Probation violation is not a difficult concept unless the news purposely distorts it, as they have clearly done.
Thank you! For fine points if poor press interpretation of events and locality (your school area) and nuances of jail vs detention and putting alot in a short video filtering and disseminating proper legal nuance & info. Always appreciated! 👍
"Doesn't know how grades and due dates are structure" Is code speak for the teacher has a different idea of how / when to grade assignments that their boss. My daughter has a teacher like that. Grad book always showed my daughter having not completed work. I know she did complete the work. She been doing work at home due to the thing. And I check her work daily.
Same story here, in california, where they started these online assignments a while ago. After a couple of altercations I advised my A++ daughter to check in at least a day ahead, so that next day she could contest their buggy software with minimal headache.
This same thing type of thing happened to me in PA. I was 19, dropped out of school. I got in trouble for doing bad things(I was a bad kid). As part of my probation I was required to get my daploma and or GED. I was imprisoned for 4 months ( pending trial) several times for a probation violation, for not completing those terms. No one ever cared about me. I was on probation for 10years (original sentence was 4 year probation and 4 years parole to run concurrent) in that time every 3rd year I would get a violation, then after 4 months detainment was given time-served,and had my probation reinstated. The parole was served in prison over many parole violations. They kept reinstating it too, but in PA they could not reinstate any parole time spent in prison. In the end I had over 15 PV. and served a total of 4 years over my 10 years on probation, and about $15,000 in fines and cost. Only $4,000 was fines rest was cost. p.s. not looking for anything, just saying what happened to me. It is now all done and over with, and I have moved on.
It's no different than someone on probation and told to not leave the county without permission from their PO. If they cross the street and enter another county and didn't have permission, then the headlines can read, "Man put in jail for crossing the street." While technically true, they violated their terms of parole. She violated her parole so they revoked her parole and she's back in jail on the original crimes. That means she's not in jail for not doing her homework. She's in jail for assault and theft.
Great comments , as usual Steve . Spot on . I think in some defense of the media , we are expected to or should read the entire story not just the headline . As you point out , it’s the details that give you the full truth .
The real questions here are was the judge aware that the student suffers from ADHD and if so did the judge provide or order any type of support to help with the issue. If not then this would be the equivalent of ordering an alcoholic to remain sober but not ordering AA classes. The defendant is doomed to fail the conditions of probation before they even start. Being a person who suffers from ADHD I can tell even when I set my mind to do homework I 99% of the time failed at completing my homework unless I simply took 1min to write any old answer down but even when I did the tactic for some reason I would still fail to turn it in even if I got someone else to do the work for me. ADHD is extremely difficult to deal with my yourself with no support and also very misunderstood even by "professionals". With that being said you make a deal with the court you should always expect to be held to the conditions of it. as a child I probably would have taken that same deal and failed. better to take the chance that you might find a way to comply then not make an attempt at all and accept defeat and failure without a fight by going straight to Jail.
Thank you for your insight on this matter. There are a lot of unknowns here, especially with how she has been able to cope with her study habits vs. having the entire school structure upended for her, and I highly doubt the judge accounted for a good fraction of it. The fact that fellow classmates and even teachers are vouching for her should speak volumes.
I worked for CPS here in PA (it's called CYS where I'm at) for a few years and truancy was a huge problem. It's purely anecdotal and I dont have any information other than my own experiences to support this but I believe truancy related problems was, for a time, the single biggest factor when looking at the number of children being placed in the foster care system. Now, it wasn't simply a truancy issue. There were almost always mental health or drug issues connected to these cases as well.
What happened in this case, is very common. Something happens, and then there is a very strange consequence. The problem with the media is that they take so much of the middle of the story out that it changes/slant what really happens. In this case, how many times was "Grace" told to do her homework, how many times was she warned. I will share a story of when I dumped 1/2 an ice chest of ice water on an 8-year-old boy. (If I stop here, this sounds bad.) It was my wife, girlfriend at the time, and her best friend and her 8-year-old son at a park. He was misbehaving. I told him he needs to stop, or I would dump ice water on him. He continued to misbehave and got the ice water. He looked at me and cried. I got down eye level with him and said, well you misbehave, I told you if you did this, you would get the ice water, and you got it. So why are you crying? He understood and we continued to have fun at the park. My wife/girlfriend got the rest because it was her birthday and I planned for it. I also had lots of towels in the car. I will add it was a very warm day, so the ice water was kind of a treat.
The thing that I don't think has been reported enough is that 'Grace' had accomodations in place under federal disability law for her ADHD, and when the school went to remote learning, those accomodations were pulled, thus putting the school in a position of violating her rights under various federal laws and that the judge and PO didn't seem to consider that, which makes the judges decision even more wrong.
Someone shared this story with me a few days ago and at first I was like, "homework is bogus." Then I read the article, and I stopped at she was on probation for theft and assault. My tune changed slightly, "homework is bogus, but you violated your probation." And from what you read, she made no effort to do any school work or attend classes? Yeah, throw the book at her in my opinion, if she was at least making an effort in some way shape or form, I could look the other way. But if you're playing hookie when all you gotta do is log into a web portal during set hours to at least ATTEND class, my sympathy is nonexistent. I was diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder back in the early '90s before they threw a Hyperactivity on every single ADD diagnosis. I almost never did my homework in school, but part of it was some of it was mind numbingly busywork. One class in my 11th grade year wanted 3-4 hours of homework, nightly. Some classes it was 20-30 minutes of work, and I MIGHT do it on the bus ride when I rode the bus, if I had light and cared to. When I got my drivers license and could drive myself to school, I would get up and go to school on my own. I would attend my classes without needing motivation beyond "what new thing do I get to learn about today?" She didn't have that spark. But she broke the law, was given terms to keep her nose clean and she wouldn't be sent to jail, she failed to uphold her end of the bargain, and apparently didn't even try on the school portion, who knows what other conditions there were and if she stuck to them.
Sending anyone to jail for a minor offense, especially a juvenile with mental issues cannot be justified. Even if they even if they commit the horrendous crime of not following orders.
I work in mental health with kids. ADHD (when not misdiagnosed), is a pretty severe disorder. When they have a behavior and the consequence is not immediate, as in less than one minute after the behavior, they don't have an understanding of why they are being punished. It needs to be behavior, immediate consequence. It should not be behavior followed by consequence 15 minutes later. The child isn't learning to correct their behavior because the consequence is too far removed from the action. In this case, we are talking about consequences possibly months removed from the action. The child can't learn, they are not capable.
If allowing her to go on probation by doing homework is acceptable, then she is determined NOT to be a threat to the community. Jailing her for failing to do it does NOT prove she is a threat. These deals are just veiled threats. "Follow rules that arent laws or risk your life at our descretion."
I love the way you explain the law keep it up please. The bottom line is actions have consequences had she gone to court she would have probably ended up in juvenile detention she made a plea deal. She accepted Probation and failed to fulfill her agreement, that has consequence the hand ringers to say she should get another chance don't understand she had her chance
I have ADHD I know I wouldn't be able to handle the zoom classes. Judge Should have just assigned her community service seeing how nobody was doing the classes.
I don't have a problem with judges setting strict terms for probation, but I do think some terms can be improper. I don't think a judge should mandate that someone seek a particular mode of treatment unless it was recommended by a qualified physician for that particular patient nor do I think someone should be compelled by the state to embrace philosophical beliefs that cannot be derived from the law. It's for these reasons I think it's problematic to make participation in AA or other 12-step programs a compulsory term of probation.
Tldr:kid on probation for theft. Part of probation is doing her school work. Doesn't do school work, goes to jail. Enough said, she deserves to be there. Life lessons.
It is also Possible that "Grace", in some way, blew off the Judge or was somehow "Rude". I've seen Judges get a tad Testie with Defendants before and basically read them the "Riot Act"! The Fact is, we were NOT at the Hearing and neither were 99.999% of the people reporting on this story.
It’s not about the homework as a condition of probation you agree to do A, B, C ... to avoid something else, jail, trial, etc. if you don’t do A, B, C ... the natural consequence is you get another option. You know what you have to do and what the consequences of not doing them are before you agree to it. As a PO you advocate for probationers but as the old saying goes: “you can lead a bourse to water but can’t make it drink” ultimately probationers know what they have to do and what the consequences are for not doing it. In NYS probation departments handle individuals convicted of crimes, as a plea in contemplation of dismissal, as a pre-trial release condition, and for PINS, people in need of supervision, that is children who’s parents can’t control them and ask for help or who are referred to probation by the schools or mental health facilities. Probation can be great but for it to work there have to be consequences and they have to be used consistently and equitably.
Several districts I know, all you have to do is sign-in check a couple boxes to check-in for the day. Minimal effort is not very much for the pandemic schooling.
The missed part of this is that the Judge at one point from the hearings on a reconsideration of the incarceration at the detention center was the statement that "You are exactly where you should be", and that statement alone from a white person to a black person has a lot of racial tension. Even if the little girl was flourishing as the judge said, but the optics are horrible and the undertone and message it sends when they did not even seek to see what could be done alternatively. Missed homework is just that homework. I work in a criminal courtroom where I have written felony sentences for juveniles, so I understand the simple conditions such as where I have had to write that the defendant finish high school or obtain a GED. While it was legally allowed the main issue is that was there a lack of understanding of the issues and this could have been a warning and continued the hearing for 30 days to try to improve the schooling situation.
Setting the record straight in a rational manner, as always! Love your style, Steve. Question. How creative are judges allowed to get with the terms of probation? Could you be ordered to do the mambo, wearing nothing but a tutu and a jello helmet every Wednesday on the town square, lest you go to jail?
I would love to know the answer also. I personally feel like the restrictions should have to have some relation to the crime. If she assaulted the person because of school issues, then the restriction might make sense, but I'm not keen on the courts being able to place random "we think this is good for you" restrictions.
Yeah, not really sure why people make this complicated. When you are given probation you are given (x) period of probation in lieu of serving (x) period of a sentence for the crime you're guilty of. If you don't meet the requirements under the probation then that (x) period of time of the sentence comes back.
Its possible that the assault charge was central. Schools are less than willing to work with kids who fight, because columbine, and tend to just kick them out. Its obvious that there are some other factors involved, which cause the aggression.
With COVID lockdown situation just unfolding, I would expect a judge to be wise enough to exercise some level of discretion, ESPECIALLY for a child with ADHD! I certainly would need to hear quite a story from the judge to justify this ruling and make me not think they are completely unreasonable.
The first I saw of her I noted the initial charges. I don't know what issues she has, but the adhd was mentioned. I can tell you that add is very difficult to self organize. If a person is self motivating that can be overcome, but I do not have what I call 'drive', in other words self motivating. I think the judge may be right. Juvie will, hopefully provide the structure this girl NEEDS. I totally understand the advantages to keeping kids from early incarceration and that is a huge risk. Mom might not be able to provide that structure and how much the aggression issues are a factor is unknown to us.
