On a serious note, the xiaoyu character is difficult to play because of her short limbs. This matters more in Tekken 8 than in Tekken 7. Of course, the fact that xiaoyu is an annoying and difficult character to deal with doesn't change. However, at this point, I don't think we can say that xiaoyu is an overwhelmingly strong character. This is because the gain is poor, the range is short, and the quick counter technique is poor.
in tekken 3 ling was the worst player in the roaster no punish no 50-50... But I mastered her and was defeating people... It's been years since I played tekken and Now it looks more like street fighter and less like tekken.... But yes she is way better from then.
I'm a MK refugee and coming over to T8 I decided to main Ling, I love this character and watch your videos often I'm developing methods to make her aggressive, yea there's characters with more tools but she is the only character that makes me wanna turn on the game.Her 50/50s are deadly so my play style is to put my opponents head in a blender, I've tried all the characters and I always come back to her I'm still learning the fundamentals of Tekken but I can assure you my Xiaoyu is coming, to me she's the best. #LingNation
Agree, Ling is choice of niche And Arslan and Croft said it right… people who play them stuck with them lol… If ya like her you’d addore Lei Wulong. many of us are eagerly waiting his DLC
Factual... Take heat away and her pressure is so lackluster 😭😭 Also, characters like Raven, Eddy, Alisa, etc can pressure you to death especially when they know what they're doing and they know their frames and all that.... If the opponent knows the Xiaoyu matchup and is patient, then a lot of tricks and whiff baits don't even work 😭 That's why you need to be very good with Xiaoyu in higher level play
yes but the general ling player over exerts themself and does too much instead of focusing on fundmentals and labbing certain matchups. AOP, B+1, and df+1 really destroys a lot of other characters frame advantages so it's Xiaoyu that disrupts their offense and prevents them from playing their normal playstyle. They have to play a "anti xiaoyu" playstyle and those who happen to do that well make it feel frustrating for ling players.
@@yomi_jeremy3964 you can focus on fundementals all you want. arslan literally said she has bad basic tools, so your fundementals mean nothing when the character just doesnt have the moves for it
I agree arslan and mr.croft about ling. Since i started to play Tekken serie (8), i love so much ling desing and playstyle. Ofc, she’s not perfect and have more weekness. But she’s fair! In my opinion, the game plan for ling is, be patient, move every time and let your oppenant make a mistake!
Xiaoyu will always be my lady and Xiaoyu not that hard it just take time and really great dedication if people really wanna learn her and once you get her down pact she will become a natural in the players hand but I been playing her since she stepped on the scene in T3 🙂
I think people overrate Xiaoyu because they got mixed in ranked, and their mids probably got evaded by AOP so they are feeling massive salt when they said that Xiaoyu is overpowered. She's not placing well at all in TWT tournaments yet people are crying for her nerfs.
@@EdmundHeng80 same thing I said I never seen her win big tournaments yet they still asking for nerfs for her cuz they got whooped in rank and her play rate is low so if she so OP and broken as they say she is then the pros would be using her in tournaments
Tbf her heat is insane and broken and should probably not be as strong but I hope they don’t do it because it’s the only thing keeping the character competitive. If she makes good reads in heat she can kill you in 2-3 interactions but outside of it her gameplan is very ambiguous, not obvious how to approach the game.
@@jessyleithe reason she doesn’t place well and her player base is low is because xiaoyu takes a lot of commitment and dedication to play with, she’s undoubtedly top tier but not everybody can just pick up and play her considering how difficult she is to pilot. Most xiaoyu’s also place low because a lot of them lack good fundamentals considering how much they’re focused on winning by gimmicks and steamrolling their opponents
My thoughts on why I'm maining ling. Her inputs are not that difficult to do. No quarter circle, no frame perfect moves, if I want to do something I'll do it and 99% of the time I don't miss input. However, I also like that there is so much to learn, her depth means I can always learn new ways to play her. I am a bit confused why some RU-vidrs are putting her as S tier though despite her win rate being below 50% and her not appearing in tournaments, something is not adding up there
Those are probably the same people bitching about how annoying she is without learning her matchups. It's easier to blame a character instead of putting in the work. They themselves are admitting that Xiaoyu struggles in tournaments and she is very much punishable and has bad tracking but as soon as they lose to ling, they want her nerfed.....
I wouldn't be surprised if they nerf Xiaoyu's heat smash and the following mix - up without giving her anything back, because too many pro players I have seen(including Arslan and Knee)are sipping that Kool - Aid in evaluating her strength. It's a clear consensus that for the majority, Xiaoyu being a stronger than average is a crime against humanity. I hope they continue to look at the in game ranked data as in pick rates, win rates etc. across all skill levels and tournament results and not only vocal pro player opinions. She would already be literal bloody F - tier if they would only listen to pro players lmao.
At around the 16:00 mark you mentioned that there were no major tournaments where Ling made top 8, and whilst I agree with what you're saying I just want to remind people that Shaoling made 5th-6th at Paradise Game Battle 2024, a TWT Master event If you guys missed it be sure to watch the VOD he played amazing throughout the entire event
She's so dang fun, that's part of the main thing, but ya there's times I feel outgunned. I'm surprised there wasn't more mention of the power of her mix ups and move cancels that keep a lot of players guessing.
At this point it doesnt matter anymore who says it you just cant change players who hate her and just say shes op, that knee tweet a long time ago just solidified it. So whatever, those players can keep crying
Ling definitely fits snuggly into A+ tier. Her stances allow so much fluidity that makes her perplexing--but fighting players who know her MU is difficult, as they know when to disrespect her. Case in point, the friends I play with regularly know the Ling MU completely, to the point where I have to really be conservative during times where I can get a bit stupid vs players in my rank (Fujin). I'm no pro Ling or Tekken player by any means, but we can see similar cases with better players/pro Lings, where there are matches they'll absolutely dominate, but also ones where their opponents don't give for much. Overall, Ling is a pretty well designed character. She gets flak for some BS she has (which, tbf, is substantiated), but she's not oppressive outside Heat and has clear weaknesses. More importantly, though, she's just really fun.
She doesn’t fit into A+ tier. She doesn’t have the in your face neutral game that a lot of other characters have. She’s misplaced and feel similar to older Tekkens. Shes a solid B tier. The only difference is other characters from older Tekkens are now effective, so this puts her further down the pack. She’s one of the worst characters in the game.
I honestly don't know what they could add or change to make her S Tier. If they give her more tools for basic, fundamental Tekken, then what's the point? Play a Mishima then. But if they buff her damage, hit properties or give her more + frames...then the haters are going to whine on twitter and say she's so cheap and takes no skill to play. I dunno. Frankly I'm just thankful she plays like she does and am pleasantly surprised she's ranked higher than she's ever been probably since Tag 1. Interesting vid, btw. Thank you for sharing.
I think she has pretty good mixups once she gets momentum with stance transitions. However, I honestly feel like her frames are lacking. Most of her pokes have poor range and are easily interrupted by a jab. I love playing her regardless.
I agree with both of you. Xiaoyu to me is like 30/30/30. Okay Neutral, Okay Offensive Pressure, Okay Defensive Tools. Nothing screams extremely strong in any area when your opponent knows the match up even slightly. So I personally would put her Low A.
Im not sure exactly what Ling needs. It feels to me that she has every tool as a Tekken character, but the tools are toned down as a trade-off for trickiness and mind games. I think, in order to compete with the stronger characters, outside heat and in Tekken 8 style, she just needs more frame traps on block and better while running moves. I dont think she FORCES as many things on you as other characters do, it only appears like she does.
The thing is that xiaoyu is not strong, but she kinda play the game on her own so unless they give her generic tool like other which she doesnt, placing her in tier list is controversial in the first place. She is not strong, every generic move you can think of all character actualy use to put pressure, they all have a lot better, she can never have any situation that is beter than her opponant, EVEN when SHE hit, there many time the follow up isnt guaratend unlike other characters... BUT to compensate she got some unique movement and rythme that if used well BUT paired with good fundamentals can aleviate the xiaoyu players and allow for some unique trick forcing the other player to go on her ground. But its hard, its very demending and so exausting, while other character can basicaly stick to a game plan and brute force situation with their generic move that cover 90% of situation especialy in T8.
i get why ppl say nina is good. I got her to red to try her out and she does work for sure! I figure the difficultly of the character should place her lower.
He still placed Ling way too high. She isn’t better than Bryan, Shaheen, Paul, Lili Jack, Zafina, Raven, Lee. Then she has characters that are anti her like Jun She’s in the B tier at best. She’s in the bottom 10 lurking somewhere around there. She needs a run up low that can ground an opponent like Asuka and get rid of the airborne status in half her moves. She’s too floaty and her moves don’t have priority in startup or trade.
There are certain things I can agree on with Arslan Ash. I think Ling is a character that relies on heat a bit more than other characters. Outside of heat, she barely has pressure and good keep-out tools. however, I don't see Ling getting a buff anytime soon. I feel like Ling could be a tough character to balance because of the way she plays. All of this forced 50/50 and how evasive she is makes her a massive headache fight. She was top tier at the start of T7 and after that, she was nerfed to the ground. They had me scared that they would do the same to T8 Ling but surprised it hasn't happened (yet). If they did buff her I would say give her more pressuring and approaching more in neutral without heat. Ling has many different playstyles. Some focus on her setup and others just play very poke-heavy. With each playstyle comes a different Ling that plays very differently however any playstyle could be a success in the future. I feel like we gonna have to wait and see what we can do better for Ling as this is still a new game and we can still find out new stuff. Hopefully, a good Ling comes and places top 8 in a huge tournament then we can learn from their Ling. Also, I find it funny how Arslan Ash says Ling is too difficult but then he goes to play Nina who I think is a way harder character to play 😭
@@Yozakura8787 Nina is quite hard to use especially since she got her cancel and stuff. I am not saying Xiaoyu is an easy character (she is pretty hard to play) but is she really above Nina's difficulty? Maybe it is due to the fact I struggle to use Nina myself.
@@missotaku9184 Nina having insanely better basics and pressure automatically makes her easier. You dont have to be creative. just mash , you cant mash with ling , thats the main problem
Yeah I agree with Croft and Arslan 100%. In certain situations, Xiaoyu struggles. Back in Tekken 7 days, she struggles the worst!! In all tournaments both offline, online, and ranked. Especially dealing with all 50 characters in the rosters. And also, Yuyu is great Xiaoyu player as well.
Clearly Xiaoyu players are the most talented downplayers in the FGC. They reject winning tournaments to avoid getting her nerfed. They pay Arslan Ash to put her outside the top 10 in his rank list. They make sure to lose half their rank matches so the character doesn't become too popular. It is the only sensible explanation why she's not in the top one everywhere, since she's so easy and OP. Really brainless to play. Clearly the most carried char. Clearly.
I agree with his thoughts and yours, but in that case her placement on the list confuses me. The way he takes about her it seems like more of an A situation at most. Does her heat alone justify her in A+ above characters like Bryan, Shaheen, Lili?
Ling is just to difficult to learn like Arlsan is saying, unless you have been playing her for years, it doesn't make sense to pick her up as far as a pro player. Oh..Irtaza place top 9 TWT Pakistan Dojo last weekend and 7th in another Pakistan tournament, both VERY stacked tourneys.
Xiaoyus pressure without heat isnt fully understood imo. Its based on the threat of causing a whiff. Kinda like how fengs df1 is basically considered plus because of his b1 deleting 25% life on ch/trade. So what you are trying to cause is them to second guess their button presses and allow you to get pressure. Thats where ff4 and ff1 come in. Ff4 being a plus on block high that goes into hyp and ff1 being a mid that gives a follow up. After ff4 hyp2 tracks so they have to guess. No step ducking (unless the opponent is lili. If the lili does this charge hyp.) hyp 2 is the less favored option to take as without heat its a high damage knockdown. Hyp 3 is a plus 6 oh low here. Hyp 2 (one step) on block gives a spacing mix. Take your turn back? Eat a b1+2 for dashing. Stay still. Eat another ff4/ff1 mix if they step this mix. dash D3 and dash b2 are some cheeky tools to toss out there. All of this should be enough to chip the health bar down enough. However. If it doesnt you have your up close poking with db2, db4, df1, df4, 1d2, 12, 121, b4... Etc You have more mixes like the ff4/ff1 with rds1+24 (mid, high) and1+21+2 (mid, mid).
Risk reward ratios, dominant characters just throw random stuff out that clicks on impact with no effort, if you have to work for neutral when you can skip it, Ling's place goes as it stands
I have been maining her since T3, and, I still lose often to other Lings, even knowing her inside and out. She takes loyalty and dedication... and even with all of that, like he said, she still doesnt win tournaments. The characters winning tournaments have built-in advantage in the form of single hit moves on block that dictate the options for response from the receiver. Ling has almost nothing like that. In the early months of T8, TMM was one of the loudest saying she's broken... but if she didn't have HYP options, she would be bottom 10, easily.
For approach... b1 to reject someone else's pressure. Not many characters have this option and it will definitely frustrate players who are used to bullying. Choose AOP instead of duck when evading high. Choose RD instead of side step right (or really, do both) when SSR is the preferred option. Entering these stances as transitions from moves is usually a bad idea against smarter players.
In my opinion, Xiaoyu is A tier at best and Bryan is stronger than Xiaoyu. She's strong but like you said, what is she going to do when she has no heat? Tekken 8 is all about aggression, but Xiaoyu can't be that aggressive without heat. Also just my opinion, Xiaoyu's lows are mid/semi trash because most of them have no reach. AOP3 is the only low that has good reach, everything else you have to be at range 0 for anything to connect. Not only that but Xiaoyu's frame traps is fking garbage. B3 is a high (can easily be ducked and launch punish). BT1+2,4 is a high as well (can be ducked and launch punish). FFF3 is the only good frame trap with AOP mixup. Xiaoyu has to play at range 0 with no good pressure tools besides heat. Meanwhile Bryan can get 1 counter hit on you and take half-life (if not more) off of 1 wall combo with zero heat and has godlike keep out tools.
U need to play Ling to get her weakness, people just need to try her out and figure it out themselves they'd know what Ling's weakness is by playing who knows they might love Ling by trying her out.
Ling has plenty of bad matchups Jun (big offender, keeps ling out of bt and AOP), Yoshi (has a lot of spacing advantages, can abuse Ling's lack of tracking), Nina(poking will keep ling out of her AOP and other stance tools), Leroy, Jack8 ( will low and mid poke to death, with large back dash, ling cant pressure) , Lars, Raven, Claudio (uf3 will destroy ling), Hwoarang, Lili (biggest offender), Alisa (largest offender), Victor, Feng Honorable mentions: King, Paul
I can't believe he didn't mention you as one of the top Xiaoyu players in the world! That was very disappointing to me. Everybody takes his word about the game like he's just the best thing since sliced bread. His opinion means ZERO to me. Ppl sometimes put her in a lower bracket because THEY aren't good with her, not because she's not good. There's a difference...oh and thanks for another BANGER video
Stop right there she ain't stronger then Jin not possibly stronger then law and I agree with being stronger then claudio.But claudio has better results because he is easy to play so in tournament claudio is better
@@tryingtochangemyways5074 no dont , she is not stronger than claudio. not in this world we live in where there are 4 claudios in top 8 in every tournament
