There are 2 types of people that watch these type of videos...critics and learners..I'm STRICTLY A LEARNER!!! I don't know enough to say ANYTHING about ANYBODY...but I DO WANT TO LEARN MORE AND MORE! so you'll NEVER hear anything negative from me!!!im just a student!! So please keep these videos coming! There ARE some people out there that appreciate what you do
I raced GoPed scooters for years, 22 cc, 32cc, 42cc, 60cc motors. And I have seen all kinds of pipes as weird as they are they work, crank stuffing, Reed intake, single-ring piston, 1 mil Stroker. Best mods are removing the head gasket, Reed valve intake, larger port on the exhaust, and a good tune. It keeps it reliable, and reliable often wins the race. Porting and removing weight from the piston makes it way faster but shakes every bolt loose including your teeth. However for cutting down trees one second doesn't mean a thing, and keeping it reliable is everything, nice video speaks the truth, good job.
Some people repeat what they’ve heard and refuse to experiment with anything that might go against what they’ve heard. I’m more of the school of try it and find out if I’ve been doing it wrong. Kudos for this test.
Expansion chambers/pipes are definitely not my expertise but I just recently started messing with them on my nitrous builds and there is so much to it... I liked th video myself
Those do make more power! I tried 4 different ways of port exit and pick up in side the stock box 372xp. Every one made more power then I decided to make a flange and build a complete pipe, bit a bit different than these styles of pipes and it absolutely rips and does not interfere with cutting! It's fun messing around with this stuff!
I just started with a OE jungle muffler. It’s not EPA friendly because it has not spark screen, then I enlarged the exhaust hole. Easy peezy! Sounds good and runs even better. That’s on my 372XP that is also an Xtork, but will work on ole edition as well.
We know the idea behind a pipe is to keep the unspent charge in the cylinder as well as get the spent charge out as exhaust but also add the fact that while doing so if the pipe is just right it's also going to pull more charge in at full throttle. That said I have been playing around with this pipe game and I find that sometimes it's the single pipes that surprise me more than duals keep in mind that I hand build so there are tons of variables but I wonder 🤔 if it could be that a single may make more vacuum behind the shock wall it let's say, on the way out maybe pulling more charge in? I hope this makes sense I don't know how else to say or explain it. But what I find is about 1 turn more fuel on the high jet is tolerated with a single than a dual pipe of the same build about 1-1/4" pipe inside and 1/2" pipe outside and mine come out of the upper face of a stock muffler at about a 45° instead of the side like yours I slide a piece of metal in place of the screen and braze it from the inside after cutting out the baffle. Just sharing my experience no science or lab coats here lol just fun with power saws and ripping on sthil guys so they can bust my balls right back lol. I enjoy your videos I don't know how you find the time to make them but glad you do.
I want to see you modify this pipe to come back around and crossover just to see what it does to the sound. I believe tuned pipes have cone shaped ends to increase the duration of the sound wave. It’s not so much about preventing blow through, it’s about increasing the pressure in the cylinder before it closes similar to what a turbo or supercharger does.
Raising the intake roof doesn't affect compression as much as a high exhaust roof, and a high exhaust roof will allow you to loose more fresh intake charge.
I have a pipe I have built for These specific saws I call the twister based off of ironhorse/buckin key to the Bush muffler. I definitely think the twist motion of this pipe allows for more time of the sonic wave to travel as well as causing a vacuum to help suck the gases from the cylinder and out the pipe. If there I any way I would be able to shoot some pictures for you to make one similar or close to for testing that would be great. I feel it's easier to show it then explain about it. Anyways good video!
I put a 24” on my 55 rancher and it pulled it and oiled it no problem. An 18 or 20” is obviously better suited for it but a 24” bar is definitely an option for the 55 as long as there are no oiler issues. I initially put it in because, at the time, I wanted a bigger bar and the 18 and 20” were sold out at the place I purchased the bar but they had plenty of 24” so I said screw it and bought it, fully expecting there to be issues but it stayed on for a year and a half doing light to medium cutting and occasional felljng/bucking and never had the first issue with it. Now when I went to go get a 28” or 32”I had to convince myself to keep walking and leave the chainsaw section and finish getting the things that were on the list that my wife had originally sent me to the store to get….cleaning supplies, air freshener, batteries, lamp shade….accent rug….oh yeah, forgot to mention that I had told the wife that I had to stay over at work. Paper work etc. She was going out of town for the weekend and while driving through town she spotted my car at the pawn shop and quickly pulled in. I heard the ding when the door opened and looked up and was standing there at the checkout, caught red handed buying another chainsaw that she claims I don’t need. I tried telling her the value of having multiple saws but she wasn’t even listening. She completely ignored the fact that a Stihl 661 for $600 is a bargain. She just walked out and left. The fact that I purchased it anyway doesn’t make me a bad person. Even after a week she still held a grudge and I heard her mutter underneath her breath, ‘Stupid fool’ when she pulled into the driveway and saw me laying kn the ground, trying to get the best angle to take a photo of my chainsaw collection….
I had a 372 and decided to rig up an inertia based isothermo convexic chamber atop the muffler. Gonna set back a little past the Newtonian angle at 1:45-7*{kpl)-(wrn) and settle it back in to the equatorial position just under the combustion wall. Thermo regulate it a degree or two and with an additive of haemolytic polyvalent for improved viscosity. I traveled to Brussels personally to true the timing on their Helixconvocentricic Wheel in a thermo resonance chamber(timed thermally as per the suns celestial position in 1/2 a degree behind top and dead center. I dialed the timing in and when I went to crank the saw it was tuned so perfectly that it opened up a black hole which imploded into itself taking the chainsaw backwards and forwards through time causing my chainsaw to become sentient.
I built something similar too with only one pipe shooting out.I got the idea from The ironhores on youtube too,havent tried cutting with it yet.Sound wicked though,i actualy had to lean out the L jet after installing the pipe muffler.hope it will also cut wicked in the wood too😁,its on my hopp up 72cc Stihl ms382!! Thank you for this video!!
If you had to lean it down after the tuned pipe was installed, then you must have been too rich initially, for the simple reason, the properly working pipe is always going to require more fuel over the stock requirements. A properly designed tuned pipe working in combination with the porting is a complimentary system will consistently pull more power over the stock set up.. More power always requires more fuel.
They not only talk about flow they talk about exhaust roof, compression. Port timing, rod length, case volume, port velocity, carb size, spark timing, and all the other stuff I'm forgetting about. They talk about and build ported,and reed saws. There's a lot of science, and even better what they refer to as tribal knowledge. There's others out there that are good. The Walkers, but they don't explain much. Another one that I can't remember his name is from Louisiana. Tin man ,and Iron horse are the ones to watch. There's a lot more to it than bore and stroke.
Thanks a lot man! I try. A piped saw is just more fun to run. Build you one! Also, I was wrong on the math, it was 5.6% faster, not .56%. And that's nothing to shluff off as if it doesn't matter. That's a pretty decent gain.
I love that you know this! Seriously! That's why many big diesel trucks have exhaust tips with small fins blocking flow. Those small fins get hot and create a draw. You will like my next video on this muffler.
@@novicelumberjack hell yeah! I love testing theories also, my buddy and I build and test all sorts of stuff with two stroke snowmobiles. Do rather well , considering all the new 4-stroke turbos out there lol. Can’t wait for your next video!
@@johnscustomsaws Yeah man! 2 strokes are like a ballet. It's all about a nice balance and flow. So many things come into play to make the engine perform right. When I was younger, I thought there was some sort of mechanical device that sent a dirt bike into its "power band". Years have given me a bit more understanding of the sweet spot.
@@novicelumberjack hey same here... started on bikes when they were ALL 2 stroke and got the bug early...never looked back... now I'm 40 😬 and still working on smokers... it will be interesting to see how these expansion chambers turn out... I just bought a CR80 pipe since its close to the saw im running it on.. the nitrous was a nightmare to dial in... totally NOT practical lol but puts a smile on your face 😄
Late 372's had a lot of variations in their tolerances. He might have a saw that goes to the loose end of the numbers. High cylinder base, high, exhaust roof.
Sonic waves not sound waves. Same thing as a V8 race engine in the intake systems. The sonic waves work like a turbo basically, you want the wave to be heading back out as the piston releases the exhaust it has a rush of air to pull the air out of the exhaust side, a expansion camber is the best way for a 2 stroke
I liked watching the video on a Saturday morning as im stoking fireplace and drinking coffee getting going for the day......seems like a realist and i understand where his theories are stemming from maybe?........he made me laugh ......guess i will go out and play with my saw
In addition it provides the small amount of back pressure needed so they do make a difference 40 plus years of experience says for now the more your willing to learn the more I’m willing to teach. Put a small amount of steel wool and you will see the waves of noise (echoes) your talking about won’t make a difference
I would like to add my 40 years of experience by just think from the other perspective you are correct on the exhaust now open your air intake and your additional torque and performance will be greatly improved.
I've been meaning to fart around with a pipe like that. I have a 55 on the shelf that's a similar build I need to get back to, running an 028 Super piston in it though. Last I really played with it, it felt like it needed more carb. Exhaust is such a finicky thing to play with on these, and is very dependent on your porting. I have one 026 build that runs extremely strong, but in playing with different muffler covers, I found it is stronger with a stock 4 hole cover vs. the standard muffler mod I had done on previous builds. Mind you it is at 92 on the exhaust with 24 degrees blowdown so the numbers are a bit abnormal for a work saw It definitely is not one size fits all.
I was going to run an 028 Super piston, but my cylinder didn't have enough squish band. The piston would hit even with a base gasket in. I believe the open port cylinders have a significantly larger squish gap that my closed port does.
@@novicelumberjack I'm running the Hyway Nikasil closed port cylinder. Squish was nearly .060 with the Hyway piston and no base gasket. The 028 piston with a .010 gasket got me .020. I did have to add a second washer on the plug for clearance on the popup though. Compression is around 245... I'm not sure why the squish was so loose with this particular cylinder. The piston that came with it checks out and gave me .017 with no gasket on a stock open port jug.
@@novicelumberjack It sure does. The pop up piston with open port will work fine, closed port came on saws that also had compression release for starting. Raise the compression and forget to release compression release pull crank rope hard and entire crank assemble will break right of saw. One of the weak points on these saws.
@@novicelumberjack If you have not already done it change the speed limited coil out with a xp coil, you will see hack of improvement from timing change and it allows it to reach xp speed. I run xp coils on all of mine. The original coil, husq changed it twice to meet epa requirements. The later 55 coils made the saw sick. Just changing the coil wakes the saw up do to timing change.
If you cut a cord of oak firewood will you get done one hour faster, half hour faster, fifteen minutes faster, five minutes faster over a stock muffler? I don't think it makes much difference one way or the other.
I put my clip on guitar tuner on my 455 22 in bar n it tuned running well in c sharp.(B flat)( wich is not an aknowledged note)..decibles..? Not sure whati ts about ...somthing to do with pitch...factory muffler is noise control..noise bounces n reflects like light does..for that matter so does air when being pushed..
I have seen hours and hours on this subject, and so now I’m curious to try a muffler mod myself. But one thing well known in the world of engine modding; more power produces more heat. Would this be the case here also? If so, is it still within acceptable limits? I’d hate to ruin either of my Jonsereds because of heat, or anything else for that matter... So, what say you? 🤔🧐
Fight for me! Reclaim your honor! I love Lord of the Rings. Pretty much ANY type of muffler mod will release the heat far better than a factory muffler is capable of, so you will actually run cooler.
I will definitely second that idea as fact that a pipe or muffler mod will get the heat out of the engine way faster. Just remember that there is a bounce back so exhaust can go back in the cylinder port in a 2 cycle so make sure to clean all metal shavings out of the muffler before running that would be the only way you could hurt your saw.
bartolone racing you can find him on RU-vid if you want stupid fast motors and pipes for small motors 2strokes. He has tons of knowledge he is a really nice guy and can help you out. He makes world record Motors just saying super knowledgeable. Give him a call
Definitely 3mm. At this point though, after making several mufflers of this style, I would recommend about 5mm SHORTER than factory. And hello to Greece! Very cool to get international viewers.
Don't be like that. Why on earth would you be like that? Because I misspoke about the intake roof? Because you disagree with my theory of the sonic pulses? Or simply because you're a jerk? Which is it? Cause I know it can't be due to my failed attempt to make a pipe exhaust cut faster than a muffler mod...because there was no failure there. Don't be a turd. Either join in the learning process, or learn to just enjoy my amazing videos and say thank you.
@@frankz1125 no kidding huh... cant believe you actually ran across it lol... you should definitely try it... bigger the cylinder and longer the stroke the better... the 460 was actually a poor choice to build a NOS saw but live and learn.. got a couple 084s in the works tho... we will see how high I can send a connecting rod lol
@@johnscustomsaws Ill sub you. I have a channel as well. I just blew up my first saw 2 weeks ago. Once I get a few more saws to play with I will try it. Cheers
??? Why would I do that? I do not have any fueling issues with this saw, so what would I gain by dumping more fuel? 🤔 teach me that one. I'm willing to learn.
@@novicelumberjack I was hearing the saw running lean when under a load. Not looking to insult you simply giving you my opinion on what I heard. With Respect. RR
@@NoPeoblem389X no problems, just thought maybe there was a trick you knew about. Reading what others write can sound harsh because we can't read the raised eyebrows or curiosity in the writers voice. I am eager to learn all little tips and tricks you have to teach. So teach on, bro! I'll be reading and learning!
@@novicelumberjack I am following your lead all I am doing simply giving direction on what I know. Your willingness to learn is what I have been looking for most people get bent out of shape because I said something my intention is to help the younger generation the correct way to mechanic work. Your show you pick your topic and I’ll chime in if you don’t mind. Your approach and passion is what you need to be great if I can give pointers and you don’t mind all I want to do is help.
Testing----project farm did a chain comparison using weight on the bar and no wrap pressure. Most scientific saw testing I have seen. How far south are you? The din outside makes me think you are south of PA?
I say make your ex the way you want an try different styles you won't no how it works till you try it I do muff mods some single some duel some pipe an some homemade mufflers just depends on what I'm trying to get the saw to do an how I ported it one of my 620s I did is running a homemade muffler an it tows a 36 great
Pardon my novice small engine brain here...But would the speed/distance of the gasses moving from the exhaust port to the wall of a pipe directly correlate to the speed/distance(stroke length) of the piston moving up and down...therefore would you be able to match the travel distance of the piston to the length of the pipe from port to first wall? Or do I just sound like an idiot here haha
The speed of the gasses would be determined by the power of the explosion I guess. Other little factors could be considered, but ultimately, that speed is just a guess.
The saw community is exactly two types of people. You have the friendly helpful people having fun and trying to learn and then there's the keyboard warriors that are worse than welders when it comes to social skills. I dont care if they are right or wrong need to just banish them all. Terrible toxic immature people.
Too bad, you dont care about easy mods to see if they work or not, seems you care more about a mod that is main stream and not a mod that can be done without fabricating a whole new system, I don't have a lot of money or resources to fabricate a whole new system, I would like to work with what I have, if you think you are a professional builder then I will look elsewhere, because you are not, Its like you dont have time for people like me,
Hold up, hold up...did you just try to task me with a job that you aren't going to pay for...and then get upset when I had no interest in performing the task for you? Did that just happen? I never said I was a pro builder. In fact, the entire premise of my channel is that I am "The Novice Lumberjack". Do you know what "novice" means? Look it up. And while you're doing that, get bent. Hoser. You're welcome for the free entertainment.
@@novicelumberjack No,No, No, I asked you if you could put another exhaust port on the original muffler that you did a muffler mod on, that you said you could do, but decided not to, you modified the original muffler with a round exhaust port, I am asking you could you put another round exhaust port on the opposite side of your original muffler! Dont get mad at me for asking a simple question X
I know what you asked. And it was perfectly reasonable for you to ask it. The problem was that, when I politely declined, you got snotty, saying that I don't care and that I am not professional. I spend HOURS on these videos. And you get them for free and you get to learn with me.. and we can talk and make suggestions, but you don't get to pout when it's not something I want to do. You should try reading your comment with someone else's point of view. You made some crass assumptions and accusations. How many hous of my time do you think it would take for me to create your video? I'll tell you...about four. Four hours on something that I am not interested in nor being paid for. That's why I politely declined. And then you start making accusations of me not caring and not being a professional. You need to apologize. I have every right to be upset. People act this way towards RU-vid creators all the time. And it's BS. I have made over 50 videos on this channel. Most of which have some very good information. I care. I care a lot.
There is a reason tuned 2T pipes are SO long....its about timing the sonic resonance. You CANNOT do it with a 2" can or little pipe. Understand the actual physics behind tuned pipes.
I'd bet money I understand it better than you do. I cannot create the draw that a tuned expansion chamber can. Not even close. But...I CAN build a tuned pipe muffler that will increase performance over other pipes of similar design. Controlling where the exhaust hits a wall really works. Watch my video. My calculation methods are very difficult to explain, but I try. It works. Nowhere near as well as an expansion chamber can. I never said that. But it does work. And I have no need to convince you any further. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hBUjYGf7SeQ.html
The Motion Pro blue wheel. They're intended for motorcycles. The degree wheels intended for cars rotate in the opposite direction from the flywheel side, which is the side I attach the wheel to. Learned that one the hard way.
I'm enjoying all your comments on this stuff. Yeah...there's a lot to it. Not just one thing. It's gonna take a while to get good at it. You sound like you have been doing it for a while.
@@novicelumberjack I'm learning just like you. Some of these people we are gathering information from are masters they all have their own twist on it, and I like the idea of making my own. You seem to be the same way.
You and I seem to be a lot alike. Same beer, same bike, same hobbies. The problem I have is I'm married to a yankee city girl. She don't care about any of it.
@@novicelumberjack Split the crank case clean and polish inside, use new bearings, play close attention to seals and crankcase gasket. check rod bearing or replace crank. Then replace coil with 262xp coil. Be sure compression is above 165. That saw will turn 13,500 like a xp. And will do all it can do with out serious overheating problem. It was designed to match 028 stihl specs and 1 pound lighter. Stihl resounded with 026 same weight and power. They where the saws that took over the American market. The 50 51 55 are my favorite like the 028 stihl they are limited by chain oil. The 026 stihl had adj oilier and became the pros choice. Both stihl and husqvarna where a big step up from American saws.
