7:20 Hey I tested this in the past and just did so again. Using cl_showpos, the eviction notice and GRU both give you a speed of 310.5HMU/s after eating the BSS, despite one having less harsh health drain (GRU and BSS alone are 299hmu/s and eviction notice is 264hmu/s alone). The thing is, when you punch someone w/ the eviction notice after eating the BSS, you get the effect that implies a speed boost but no actual speed boost. You're still 310.5HMU/s.
Oh yeh also the eviction notice boosts you to 370HMU/s WITHOUT the steak, so the steak literally makes you way slower and you don't get any benefit from punching people other than basically being an slower scout hitting people w/ the stock bat.
Huh. Well this certainly gives the Eviction Notice an edge over the GRU since the health drain is a lot less kneecapping, but the fact that the speed boost is worthless with the steak is kind of shocking to me. That's insanely bad. I'll see if I can make a short follow-up like I did with the Red Tape Recorder to clear this up.
@@fishstickonastick-gaming Yeh, it wouldn't be as bad if it didn't just remove the speed boost effect entirely. I tested w/ other melees and adding the conch and disciplinary action effect (same effect as the eviction notice boost), and it actually makes you only able to go up to 310.5 and not the 322 a standard *non* BSS heavy would if whipped or under conch, 370.5 of an EN Heavy, and 418.5 of a GRU heavy. So you could literally eat the BSS and move anywhere from 4-26% slower than you otherwise would. You can literally be 5% faster than a scout w/ GRU out, eat the steak, and while still under conch or being whipped be slower than a medic or spy.
Man just got into multiverses and quantum physics to check the speed of heavy weapons guy from the game team fort defense the second with a boxing glove
I was in an upward server earlier and there was a guy named Doom playing Demoknight and every time he died he would complain in chat about people holding S or not being able to get the first kill with his sword or pyros.. was really funny.. I swapped to pyro just to fuck with him
"Why are this, the warrior spirit and the brass beast all in the same set?" It's the 'die as fast as possible' set, you equip it to die faster so you can get back to the resupply cabinet and change to other weapons faster
Funny how each of those items are either okay or alright on their own but terrible when paired with one another, excluding the Warrior's Spirit because it NEEDS something to help close the distance on enemies and would be okay when paired with the Buffalo Steak of it didn't stack the increased damage taken stats (or one or the other didn't have that stat to begin with). The Brass Beast is great for tanking damage and the Buffalo Steak isn't bad when paired with the Heavy's other melee weapons like the KGB.
I think the true menace is the KGB, because the steak just makes it OP by letting heavy close the distance faster and giving him an initial damage boost, which lets him get a kill quicker. But because the KGB gets Full crits from every kill, giving him this ability to get that initial crit boost faster along with the potential of getting crits right after eating the steak, meaning he has both full-crits, AND a speed boost, the KGB just becomes extremely busted, as the kgb is already strong without the steak because of your large health pool letting you tank hits in order to sneak in a hit when an enemy approaches you (lag compensation is dumb).
Im going to be honest with ya boys. Heavy suck just either kill im if your are demo, sniper, medic, Spy if you are good. If you cant just dont get near him. There is no way a heavy is OP just cause he got normal speed, good damage and health. Try to kill a good demoknight that is on a killstreak with eyelander. Cause just with timing heavy cannot hit you as demoknight the only class that should approach him. If he get a kill and even a killing spree it mean someone gave that kill to him. YOU CANNOT be able to not see a 500 pound russian that is slow as a turtle come to you.
@@skulls122 and then his minigun suddey fires laser beams and everyone he's looking at dies. Also a small fact heavies bullets comes out of his face instead of his minigun. Which makes it harder to fight heavy when he has the high ground especially if you're a soldier. Though a max head solar light level demoknight is gonna be a super annoying class to fight especially if your tracking skills is bad. Heavy needs a player with good tracking, high situational awareness, very good positioning skills, and has enough braincells to not walk in the open when there's an Australian man (technically new Zealand) with a hunting rifle is permanently looking at it. A good heavy can be a very hard class to kill if he has those skills especially when there's a german behind him. Though being a large slow moving big loud target can give his enemies time to prepare for him. But like I said a good heavy must have positioning, tracking and high situational awareness with a working brain to be effective.
@ClamTea it is a stun for everyone except Scout. I played against so many Soldiers who liked to aim at my feet today. Played as Medic, Pyro, Sniper, Demo; all of them were stunlocked upon a direct hit at feet. It is a complete stun unlike splash knockback which is surfable.
I imagine heavy getting a new eating animation for the steak where he grabs it with both hands and just rips a chunk out with his mouth and eats it like a bear.
One "con" id like to add is while the effect is active the heavy screams and laughs and generally makes a lot of noise to let the enemy team know that the heavy exists
@@The_Rising_Dragon with the damage resistance and all that (I think it had damage resistance I don't remember I'm replying a bit later) It feels like the type of thing where you eat it, disregard your safety and go in punching people That's what I'd like it to be anyways
@@flamethegame1 Yes, it had damage resistance and knockback resistance, combined with a faster movement speed, increased movement speed on hit, and increasing the length of the buff on kill. The proposed Steak is definitely supposed to support rushing(although it supports ambushes by proxy). You're supposed to eat, and then go on a wild bull charge killing as many people as possible to increase the duration and keep punching. Your suggestion to make the Heavy really loud would be great, since a Steak Heavy becomes a very imminent threat that if not countered quickly will tear a team to shreds FAR faster than even a Demoknight. Making him ridiculously loud gives the opposing team at least some warning before it's too late.
@@notalive5479 also I just love the idea of heavy going nuts in a killing spree with his bare hands it’s totally in character for him and it makes going up against a steak heavy terrifying. He’s not locked in a room with you you’re locked in a room with him.
Ah.... I remember one time, 4 or 5 buffalo steak sandvich heavies some how managed to sneak behind our team. We got sandvied between the steak heavies and the enemy team. It was a massacre! I still got PTSD from that experience...
Honestly, I'll never understand what possessed Valve into making melee Heavy legitimately awful. It isn't even just the Steak either, all his melee weapons that aren't utility or the KGBs are worthless, hurting you more than benefiting you. The only even remotely decent justification is Medieval Mode, but that's ONE gamemode that most people don't play.
Non-utility melee weapons are designed to be last resort weapons. Why Valve thought that all they needed was mini-crits and a speed boost is beyond me.
@@jaimeantonioolaguezchirino5805 For a lot of classes, melee exists as an easy to land last resort burst damage option when an enemy gets too close to you (most notably the explosive classes). Problem is, the Heavy can't really utilize it in general play due to the fact that he needs to unrev his Minigun (which is also an issue for his Shotguns). I just find it weird that they give Heavy so many penalties to melee, when melee is such an unreasonable option for him to use, even when you don't acknowledge the previously mentioned variable.
@@davisdf3064 "You can have this when you pry it from my cold, dead hands. And even then, good luck! Because I will have glued it to my cold, dead hands!"
I like the fists of steel because still after all this time, in the heat of the moment, nobody understands that a melee hit will one shot him. Nobody in pubs knows how to deal with a fists of steel heavy in their face unless they also tried to use fists of steel at some point, which is shockingly rare apparently.
i play a friendly match with my friends, the one who always pick heavy tried to copy bigjoey in going melee againts a vac, i just take out my whip and melee crit him (i know that was not fair even worst my pocket and hes have vaccinator) but i jus trippled him in one hit very easy with the absurd range on it
*Random pyro wm1ing into my face* I whip out fists of steel and start beating the shit out of him while he stands in front of me, patiently holding m1 and waiting for me to burn to death while he stares blankly into my soul
Buffalo streak is so sad, because the concept is a really cool one, viable melee heavy would make the class so much more fun and varied, but it just punishes you so hard for using it as intended that it's not even viable as a meme in most cases
Of all the whacky things in TF2, what takes the cake for me is the idea that Heavy, in the middle of a literal war zone, casually stops to have a snack.
Eventually when the Sharpened Volcano Fragment finally gets its episode, I feel like one of the only set that would make this thing even *slightly* useful would be the Dragons Fury which allows for far ranged attacks rather than being powerful close range so the SVF has a purpose in close range, and a flare gun so you can combo an enemy after you hit them with the SVF, still you can do better with ANY other set, hell you can ignore the SVF in this set and probably do well, or even better, but that was my only idea
@@malakimphoros2164 I kinda wished the SVF was a reskin on the Axtinguisher, imagine the axe being just the obsidian, but when you kill someone with the minicrit and get the speed boost, it lights up its fiery parts
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 One idea I had was that it would increase your melee and fire damage (Including flamethrowers) by 5% after every kill being capped at 3 kills for a 15% increase, and then it woyld still have its 20% damage penalty and afterburn, idk if its OP or still underpowered though, maybe OP
Nobody ever mentions that there's technically more than 1 direct upgrade of stock. The Holiday Punch is a direct upgrade because it can't be nullified by Uber. Essentially, the common Hoovy is the counter to an Uber push
@@bruschetta7711 Ubers aren't immune to effects that hault all movement and control like taunts, laughing, and the stun effect caused by taunt kills and the Supernova power-up in Mannpower. I doubt the sandman ball could stun an Uber, but I guess I'll never know because it can't stun anymore
The fact that the eviction notice does reduced damage makes absolutely no sense. I mean when the heavy punches with just his fists he does 65 damage but when he puts on massive spiked brass knuckles it somehow reduces that damage? Tf2 logic
There used to be a time when the Eyelander had a damage penalty. Yeah, you heard that right: a freaking intact blunt piece of glass did more damage than a long piece of a sharpened metal specifically designed to kill living beings.
@@Zmeeed01 The Eyelander and the Claidheamh Mòr were made to deal 25% less damage, but both swords could random crit. This change was reverted quickly, of course.
I think that sums up the Steak Sanvich: "If you lock away the best [DPS+Tank's] primary, it better be worth giving it up." I think the damage vulnerability is the best way to make it balanced if there were also knockback resistance and an upgraded speed boost. Make him hit hard and fast with sustainability versus his default (using the minigun) slow, gradual movement but still devastating damage. Giving the Steak a very slightly longer animation, and sound during and after eating to signal that he's about to/is on a rampage, while also somewhat healing him, would be my favorite option. Give it less of an escape tool viability, and more of an "all-in" option for a push. The additional health-on-kill and extending the buff meter would be great for sustain and appropriate planning with any weapon. Like the Bonk and old GRU (please revert) it should definitely come with a Marked after use. Synergies with the KGB will make him do more consistent damage, and with the Warrior's Spirit will give him more sustain but more vulnerable, and the Eviction Notice... well probably give him more speed and resistance. Fists would be default but give enough neutrality to be viable. (Honestly, it'd be cool if the Eviction Notice had a Marked Target effect to stack single-target damage, making it a more stream-lined *focused attacker* weapon.)
I think that it should work kinda like demoknight or gunslinger, where if you want to get down to play a certain way, it should impact the primary in a way it incentifies using the buffalo steak in its intended way, since it literally forces the user to use melee only So i would give it something like -50% ammo pool on the primary slot
Nah dude. I hate the 20% damage vulnerability. Genuinely what the fuck were they thinking adding that? And you pair it with the warriors spirit and you have an effective health of 150 and can’t even catch up to a pyro. Worthless. Buff the speed to 311 hu/m give damage resistance and knock back resistance, keep mini crits. That’s all you need to make it actually fun. Right now it’s so frustrating and difficult to use it’s not even worth it, even for the meme.
The claidheamh mòr (pronounced claymore, it's gaelic) is actually the best sword for hybrid-knight. The damage vulnerability doesn't come into play because you'll be using your grenade launcher for fighting, and when paired with the tide turner allows for a lot of mobility.
13:13 Fish: 3.... Me: yeah these changes seem reasonable. I wonder if tf2 ever gets updated if this will get chsnged- Fish: 4... Me: oh, there's more. Yeah I mean, maybe a bit too strong- Fish: 5... Me: ??? Fish: 6... Me: wtf Fish: 7...
I’d honestly love it if every weapon got a Meet the Team short. It would show us a bit about why Valve made some of the decisions they did, and what they intended for the weapon. We might have gotten an inside scoop on why they thought the Shortstop above was ever a good idea.
Banana is actually a direct upgrade from the sandvich on almost all counts due to its extremely fast recharge rate. In the same time it takes for a sandvich to recharge, you'd have distributed 3 bananas already, and together heal for 60% of a class's maximum health, compared to the sandvich's 50%.
You can't upgrade a small health kit to a medium with the banana. Also, sometimes the burst healing of 50% right away is better than the 60% over the recharge duration, for keeping your medic alive in a clutch situation. I think, generally, that the sandvich is better if you have a medic pocketing you, and banana is better otherwise.
As a medic main, Its better used to keep your Medics safe in a pinch or yourself if the Medic is busy during a fire fight. Basically being a throwable Medium med kit you can leave around in the event of an attack. Which considering how vital medics are, You want to make sure your medic outlasts the opposing one.. I see the Banana as a viable Side grade, Healing the heavy just as well if not better. While yeah the Banana can top off the medic just as well. The Sandvich ensures more survivability (bar a crit Pill/Rocket).
if youre a lone heavy i agree, if youre running with a medic absolutely not, with a medic the sandvich will be better for all the extra burst healing, plus you can upgrade a small health kit into a medium
I mainly use banana for what you mentioned, but you may be surprised how many times sandwich saves a medic with just a sliver of health after a rocket surf which a banana with more theoretical total heal could not do
The mindset of "bad weapons don't exist, you just have to figure out how to use it right" is what this series is based on, and for that sir I salute you.
The only strat with this weapon that I've ever seen work out semi-consistently is to get a quickfix medic to uber you since it gives knockback immunity. Those pyros will be so confused when you punch them all to death.
I love this thing. It's usually as ineffective as wet toilet paper, but when stuff actually happens when it's used it's absolutely hilarious. To buff it, I would say just make Heavy move as fast as a Scout because that would be funny (Okay but actually remove the damage vulnerability and turn it into damage resistance).
4:30 Lmao that poor Sniper xD Yep they're probably planning to update it on Heavy update... Oh right Awww that Berserk song, everything went wrong because we didn't put on grasses :(
I would love it if the "sound effect" was just an extended theme song that would emanate from the Heavy themselves. Imagine hearing the TF2 main theme getting louder and louder as you see a three rag dolls launch into view from behind a wall one after another. Then a KGB Heavy comes screaming around the corner with glowing fists and running faster than any Heavy should. It would also be a good opportunity to give reskins or different versions different songs to play. It would also be interesting if they change the song depending on if the Heavy is on you team or not, something to rally your team together while sending fear into your enemies. And I'd like to think Hoovies would enjoy playing music for everyone.
I would actually make it so the speed boost is applied whenever you are going at the direction of an enemy. Take out the damage vulnerability of course.
Changes I like to suggest. 1: Make the lunchbox equipable on the primary weapon slot. 2: Make it that the mini-crit also apply to the shotgun. 3: Change the unable to switch to just unable to switch to primary if the minigun equip. Conclusion: Fat Scout become an actual viable strategy.
The one use I've found for the Steak is getting to the front line faster if my team doesn't have a teleporter. After that, it's only a means to keep my teammates alive.
It would be cool if the Steak Sandvich when thrown would give the same buffs and debuffs to enemies if they pick it up. It would only heal teammates since... well, it would be annoying. But imagine a sub-class version of heavy, the Trapper Heavy. Placing a steak sandvich around a corner and watching his prey scramble as they are unable to use their guns to defend against and onslaught of bullets. I dunno, think it would be a cool idea if done right.
7:32 that clip is perfect and ima sum it up: Medic ubers, obvious spy appears and tries to do a back stab and they go into the tunnel, medic ubers the spy which made the spy invincible to heavies melee, spy backstabs heavy, heavy gets mad for a good reason
That would just be annoying to fight against. There is no class that won't be able to run away from you except for other heavys. And said heavys can shred you with their primary regardless. At this point even enemys caught of guard will still be able to get away as the minicrit damage isn't enough to finish most classes in 1 swing.
@@rayzuke1232 no, that's why I said to remove the speed boost. It would allow you to close the distance using your health rather than speed, something heavy is quite good at already. Also can be combined with the fos for greater effect
@@Artood4R2 That is why it is annoying to fight against. A slow heavy waddles toward you and he has currently effectively 1200 health. Do you: A: Fight him to the death B: Be annoyed and just walk away
when you make a video on the hot hand keep in mind that there is EXACTLY one way to properly utilize this weapon: combine it with the backburner. you can slap someone with the hothand move behind them with the speed boost and switch to the backburner and get your guaranteed crits. for secondry use either the shotgun or the flare gun.
For those who wanna know how that trickstab works, here's an overly detailed explanation. You basically strafe a tiny bit in one direction, and you pray the enemy swings their mouse to track you. Meanwhile, you circle-strafe in the other direction about a quarter way around them and try for the stab. If they swung left, you'll just barely connect a backstab while circling right. In the vid, you can see one frame where I was out of view b/c Fish was reacting to my leftward strafe and had swung the mouse left. Server interpolation makes this look even worse, because it is "late" to show my movement around Fish. Vastly better Spies can do this with more consistency than I, and it is how most facestab-looking trickstabs work. P.S. I didn't realize that Heavy was Fish until this vid released. I was just like, "This Heavy is just trying to have fun. I feel kinda bad about hunting him."
This weapon will be permabaned forever because heavy is never allowed to reach mid early in the meta, so I wouldn't care about taking the competitive into consideration when rebalancing this weapon
Scout's comment made me think up a new Lunchbox item: A Salad Increases movement speed +40% Animation takes 200% longer Can move during Animation Effect ends after animation Can pause animation by switching to other weapon Recharge takes 700 HP, or one minute, from empty to full.
@@Tegrius88 oh right, completely forgot about that. probably because every encounter with a fat scout involves my brains being painted on the side of a wall
2:55 See this is why we need global stock melee rework. Buff classes like Heavy and Soldier should do more stock melee damage. After all, Scout and Spy do less melee damage so why not bring this mechanic to other classes but in reverse? Maybe also increase Pyro melee damage to make stock axe viable burst damage tool. Also support classes like Sniper medic and Engy should also do less damage since they're meant to be weak combat classes and yet they all do 65 melee damage. If we nerfed it to 40 dmg, that would mean that random crit 40x3=120 wouldn't be able to one shot light classes like Spy, which will be very appreciated by our French baguette boys.
I don't see enough people calling mention to the fact that "tell 'em Fish sent ya" is a spectacular closer, and every way he works the weapon into it is joyous
I disagree with your proposed balance changes, because we shouldn't balance around competitive. It's not like they're going to use it anyway, let them have their shitty bans on everything that isn't stock. TF2 is for casual fun and fragging in a pub. NOT to be balanced around 10% of the community. Here are my ideas: Upsides: 1. Make the effects be stuck on you until you die. You can only use your melee and secondary (to be tossed to teammates) 2. +15% damage on melee weapon 3. Speed increased by 50% (instead of 30%) 5. Every kill increases movement speed by 5% (capping at 3 kills) 6. -10% spin up time on primary (while not under the effects of the steak) 7. Invincible while eating (like phlog taunt) 8. +15% damage on critical hit (while under effects of the steak) 9. +50 health on kill. Downsides: 1. -10% damage on primary weapon (while not under the effects of the steak) 2. Passive +15% damage taken from all sources 3. You have to build up a steak meter before eating it (by doing 400 damage) 4. Cannot be overhealed while under the effects of the steak 5. Speed boosts don't stack with GRU or Eviction notice (or anything, for that matter) 6. +30% damage taken from sentries Things that don't affect gameplay: 1. Enemies are gibbed on kill no matter which melee is used 2. You are gibbed on kill no matter how you died 3. Heavy says his "I AM ANGRY" voice line every time he eats the sandwich.
I love this weapon so much because, well, Heavy’s deserving of another play style to mess around with and it’s SO FUN just to run around punching people. It’s a shame that it’s so difficult to use... (please fix the damage intake or give us a primary to pair with it-)
![[TF2] Bad Weapon Academy: Buffalo Steak Sandvich](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
