The Answer To Yesterday's Video is: No - F-16 ADF Apex Predator 

Top tier takes a surprising amount of skill tbh especially situational awareness. You could have the best plane with the best missiles, and still underperform if you don't keep your head on a swivel in the initial furball.

*completely ignores original point*

@@stoyantodorov2133 True there games where I’ll be on my phone half the time and die immediately, even in the f16 yesterday and games where you absolutely clap when ur concentrated

@@stoyantodorov2133 nah. You either have the f14 or you die

Yup. They should limit all previous planes to 7/8gs max to be as realistic as this limiter in f16 xD And make su25 to break in half at 7g's but it's bad for russian planes :/

Or the f5 and mig 21 pulling 14g

@@adrianstachowski9422 personally i’d just like the limiter removed, i understand they let other jets pull more for gameplay purposes but it makes no sense to limit 1 plane to its “realistic” G pull… it’s just a nerf at that point

@@maverickjhett they could also put limiters on the other planes mig 21 i believe was only able to pull 8.2g and f5 7.6g its been a while since i had a discussion about the ridiculous g planes can pull in this game

@@colejones594 they wont, they let planes pull 1.5x more G for gameplay purposes, which is understandable (nobody want to only pull 6Gs in a phantom). but they shouldn’t apply limitations to certain aircraft

Nah, Gaijin would never do that, that would indicate bad BR compression! Su-57 will be 12.3

can we also get F-117 premium at 10.0 :)

@@JackIsMe1993 Ridiculous. 10.3 is a whole nother story though. To be moved to 11.3 after they've made back 500% of the cost to develop the in-game model.

@@natesiress1057 The thing has zero air to air capability

People will still bitch and moan about "high speed compression" because those planes are also limited to 8-9g. in before "the f22 flies like an f104!" Just stop turn fighting at mach 1 smh

this is truly a mig 15 moment

@@iampurechaos I was thinking that as well. The 15 and 17 compress worse than anything else I know

Q-5/A-5C as well, they compress post mach 1 horribly, like another plane when its in 600-800ish speed

It's because the FBW system limits G-pull to 9Gs The problem is that war thunder has a dumb G system that allows you to pull 15gs, and that is largely because of the control scheme where everyone uses arrow keys with 100% pitch or nothing.

With a joystick you can control your rate of pitch, but with arrow keys it's all or nothing. This worked ok with props, and even with compressing first gen jets. But with high AOA capable fighters there is no limit to your pitch at high speeds; you need to be able to control your pitch rate, but the control scheme makes it extremely difficult. Instead of finding some way to fix this, Gaijin just allows you to pull stupid Gs, along with the tiny maps this is a big part of why top tier air RB is so broken and unrealistic. Now though with the introduction FBW jets, this problem is catching up with them. The question is whether they will finally fix the G and M&KB control system, or they will take the lazy option and just get rid of FBW G-limits.

At this rate (and with Gaijoobles' greed) we'll probably be looking at an F-22 in WT in 4 years lol

@@sadge1234 maybe even sooner, since the tech and game mechanics are mostly there already. F-22 would make a great 12.3 fighter :V

​@@kny1098Probably gonna be more likely to be 13.0, honestly.

@@kny1098 11.7 actually, BECUZ IT SUXXX AT DOGFIGHTING ECKSDEEE!

Maybe it really was ahead of it's time.

so is the ASA actually better than the f16? it accels better, pulls more g's, (11gs) (pulls 16gs in a snaproll) higher top speed, turns roughly the same, has better sarhs (faster, pulls more), lower br, but has less aim9ls, and a slightly worse radar

@@primobiliran9967 Not at all. F16 is a low speed monster, and has a ridiculous t/w ratio. Its an f104 outside of a dogfight tho

The ADF also had the 66A radar (edit: in real life, currently has the wrong standard 66 radar in game) which was upgraded over the standard 66 radar to give it better Look Down, Shoot Down tracking for the new inverses pulsed seeker on the AIM-7M.

I mean it certainly didn't have AIM-120's in 1989...

Fuck no.

Idk about that, 9Ls are still the exact same stat wise according to the datamines. Unless they did some trickery server side, there is no indication they got nerfed. They were always easy to flare in front/side aspect and a bit harder in rear. I guess people are just abusing and overestimating its front aspect lock ability a bit too much. Especially now that many more planes got access to 9Ls people are also more aware of them in headons.

Why is it good to be European in relation to his videos being recommended? Is the Algorithm different for legal reasons or something?

@@stanjon7 idk, I got this notification too, and I'm in the middle of the U.S.

@@stanjon7 Idk, I'm in the US and I get these recommended quick. He's probably glad these are uploaded at good watching times for Europeans, I guess.

Heh doof heheh

@@satagaming9144 Nah, he just knows Europe is the best 💪💪💪

I believe the AoA limit of 29 units can be overriden by a button (on bl10 and later) but the G limit is fairly hard. The reality is every other jet in game is pulling too hard rn because pilot g tolerance for instantaneous pulls is absurd. The 9.5g limit exists to prevent Gloc and should be an advantage not a hindrance.

The issue exists more with others planes in warthunder being able to pull 14gs for no reason, needs to be limited on all to 6-9Gs depending on aircraft. People have no concept of the fact that dogfights dont happen at mach 1.3

No they need to fix the G system, and fix the control system that has prevented them from fixing the G-system.

No, even with a joystick in sim you can't pull that hard at high speed, I've tried.

@@TheAmazingchickens Gaijin apparently doesn't want the gameplay to be full on realistic. If it was very few props would be pulling more than 6-7Gs. However most every prop fighter being able to pull 10+Gs means that US props and 190s are nerfed by this. Fairly notably too. The F-16 gets a similar nerf where everything else is benefiting from unrealistic elevator pull. The technical fix would be to just straight up nerf what the in game 'pilot' can pull to be more representative of what an actual human pilot can do. However most players likely wouldn't like that. Imagine everything pulling something similar to what the Hornet currently does. My bigger issue with this is that certain aircraft are getting nerfed by these adjustments unfairly. The problem is that there isn't a way to really buff them without getting even more ridiculous.

Yup, and since you can't pull a hairpin turn at max speed you'll keep your speed always until you pop the airbrake. It's actually a bit of an advantage in many ways, especially the worse of a pilot you are. It's still ridiculous to have only one plane limited in this way.

Skill issue

Now that you say it, I do see it... Still watchable but strange nonetheless

omg smigol

Sounds like a skill issue ngl

What

To a certain degree i can agree with that, breaks the OCD

Well put. Realistic battles with 12 G turn ain’t realistic.

@@DirtyMardi The problem is if you're going to restrict these planes, you have to do it to the rest in some way.

Warthunder had a multiplayer on gs i believe so a 9g pull is a 12g pull

it does consistently beat the mig in a two circle and one circle even at low speeds

they nerfed it. 9L are easy to flare with 1 -2 flares

Definitely neefed the Ls. They flare 99% of the time.

@@brian-us6vw Yeah, the whole reason AIM-9Ms were developed was to produce a sidewinder with actual countermeasure resistance.

@@buschacha those are aim 9m not aim 9l Aim 9M was developed to have more resistance than the L variant. Did u mean the L variant and not Aim 9 M?

F14 is still best us jet with 6 radar guided missiles and descent flight performance

Wait what why?

Corsairs keep on winning even when updates are not about them lol

@@virgilio6349 american radial power 💪

@@virgilio6349good on them! Loved using the corsairs. Sexy reverse gullwing and sturdy landing gear to boot.

I’m lvl 91 and have all of Great Britain researched and I got the ML to grind Russia. I wouldn’t blame the people but I would blame war thunder for allowing you to do it. If someone wants to spend their money on something they enjoy there is nothing wrong with it to me. Plus I didn’t do too bad in the mig-23ml at top tier when I played. There does need some balancing to the game though.

Blame gaijin, this is what they want, you funding Russiathunder with whales and premium chasers

9.3 is even worse buddy. Theres like 3-4 tech tree planes out of 12 on average. The rest are Harriers, A-10s, Frogfoots and Su-7s with a little A-6 and A-5 sprinkled on top.

Saw a level 6 player in a 23ML today... He crashed on take-off

@@icantsleepman I wish they had a lvl 20 or 30 limit to get top tier premiums

Yeah like wtf I was able to pull 16G with the mig 19....16 fcking G

the problem here is that you have these two with realistic G limit fighting old aircraft capable of pulling 14g+ ... they have to enforce realistic G limits for ALL aircraft or keep the previous 1.5 times the g limit rule every other plane uses

You really should be able to choose how they drop

The only reason EC map matches are longer is because of the longer time to travel to the fight. The fight itself is still mostly a furball which takes place in the middle of the map and takes no longer than on a normal map, you just fly for 10 minutes to get there

11.0-11.7 EC maps are a blessing

@@birthdwt8859 bozo opinion

​@@birthdwt8859factually wrong

Well, from what I heard the seeker should have better low alt performance, and from the few times an F-16 got me that low, the missile tracked pretty well, morr than the F would

skyflash is a aim7e2 copy in wt

I can carry like 12 missiles on my f4c and only lose like 5 mph max speed, you don’t need to drop missiles

@@LewisB3217 False, the statcard may say that you lose only a few km/h but the pact on acceleration is pretty big. Noticed it especially after getting the F14

The second time he did it was for a close range dogfight, and the third time was because his radar got destroyed.

Not in game right not it’s copy paste

@@kynanledee5089 i see but thats what i just read up so the aim 7m is just a aim 7f at the core but just a better seeker head so idk if war thunder will implement that small change

It should be on all modern jets that had it. Mig-29, Su-27 has a soft 8g limiter overridable to direct control. F/A-18 has a soft 7.5g limit with paddle override up to 10. F-14/F-15 have no limiter but give overload warning at 7.5g and 9g respectively. All these numbers with AA stores only. Bombs and external fuel will reduce the limits in most cases.

@@appa609 The problem is that planes that dont have it in warthunder can in some scenarios sustain 11-12 G pull for multiple seconds without GLOC and thats just absurd.

@@appa609 No it shouldn't, this is a video game and obviously Gaijin is not smart enough to implement such mechanics without making it frustrating

war thunder's game engine isn't able to model multiple stages of WEP; for example, even on things like the P-51H, ~92% power is "military," 100% is "dry WEP," and WEP is just WEP with water injection.

@@fexilsehn6445 sure it is, the multiple stages just isnt handled by the GUI. Most jets i have are implemented with 2 stage afterburners, Its very finicky to engage stage 1, you need to be at 100% engibe power and throttle up with the scroll wheel one single tick.

@@fexilsehn6445 they have modelled different A/B stages on the F-14

@@AttiliusRex that's not them implementing different stages of afterburner, that's just afterburner being modeled as 110% throttle so you can scroll to intermediate values

@@fexilsehn6445 Then what is 95% on the P51H? I don't think there should be an intermediate.

im only researching it to do duels with friends on custom battles, that at least is actually enjoyable, if only gaijin made 1v1 modes

The J-7E is still missing it's HMD.

They should honestly cap toptier at like 6-8 people per team and make people spawn on different airfields. Modern jets werent meant to fight like in ace combat where there are bandits in every which direction you look.

New and improved game modes will flow and fluidity would make the game so much fucking better

Poor murika fan boi, u can go for f-14 its can pull 12g or even more.

Don't lock people running away who is same speed as you or flying parallel pd won't see the target

Well they’re all the same, and completely useless. According to my test flights Gaijin probably haven’t even modeled any increase in maneuverbility with the wings fully retracted vs fully extended. No matter the speed it’s going to get shafted by even an early phantom with full bomb load or a buccaneer in maneuverbility. (I know it isn’t a turn fighter but it seriously cannot be that bad.) the only thing it has going for it is that it’s bloody fast, it just seriously won’t lose speed in full burner, and the speed you lose you’ll get back in no time

@@onelyone6976 here's the thing. The German one has superior engines, but the British one (I can't talk about how the German one performs really but the X-ray shows its got a pair of far better engines) underperforms horribly. The engines are the garbage ones, the flaps and slats aren't correct, the top speed is incorrect, basically Gaijin have gimped it. I can't speak for the German one particularly but I can't imagine it's much better. They're not even fast enough that's the problem, I struggle to reach mach 1 with tanks and bombs meanwhile some MiG-29 or F-16 is outrunning me or closing in on my 200kph faster than me. It's such a worthless vehicle.

@@firestarteronyoutube5542 okay did not know the German one has better engines, I test flew the german one because that's the tornado I have access to. I am myself a British main when playing but haven't played for up to half a year partly my craptop barely runs the game and partly because I don't even have enough space on the SSD

Funny, cuz Ive seen one person cover Italian, and most cover a brit one. Not that There's much difference

@@gansior4744 I,m talking about live server though. The Brit one was the only one available on the Dev Server hence the coverage but there appears to be little to no coverage post launch

Its because of the f16s 9G limiter irl.

@@raphaelsantiago9387 If they add the irl g limiter for the f16, they should definitely add it to every planes

@@OzzyTheWild i would honestly break my wings than use this limiter

@@anttila674 yeah fr. We all know that it wouldn’t break them a lot too. I understand that my wings will break if I do a hard turn, but please let me do the hard turn 🤣

@@OzzyTheWild yeah its dumb af why only the f16 got it

There isn't a point at the moment.

It is extremely maneuverable. Gajin is applying its written into the real life FBW control system 9G limit. Other aircraft are benefiting from superhumans in the cockpit that are capable of pulling way more than what is humanly possible. It isn't that the F-16 is nerfed or being made unmaneuverable. The accurate way to look at the scenario is to notice how overbuffed everything else is maneuverability wise relative to what they should be because of the superhuman ability to pull. For example most prop fighters shouldn't be able to pull more than 6-7Gs yet almost every one can pull 9-10Gs. This has also nerfed many American fighters and 190s in the same way that the F-16 has been handicapped as they should be better in terms of high speed handling than pretty much every other fighter out there but that isn't represented in game for the same reason.

@@rainsilent if other planes in game can pull insanely well, then a fighter like the F-16 should be made to pull even more to compensate. The F-16 after all was built to be very maneuverable

@@philippeszwarcbart6507 Again you can't pull hard because of the G-limiter which shouldn't even be in the game if you ask me

the problem with that is that people will go bankrupt, because, for example, the mig21 smt costs 14k to repair spaded, and you make like 6-7k per kill

@@ofcefcipu8954 yes but with a more fair chance to suceed if you fly well, proficient pilots will no longer suffer a loss even tho they scored an ace. I have lost top tier matches with 6 kills and me being defeated in a 3v1 (or more) meaning my entire team got 1 kill. Should it have been a 5v5, I would have been left in (yes still very difficult, but less so) 4v1 if my whole team dies with 1 kill scored between them. But you are probably right though, the SL rewards at toptier are pretty lackluster.

@@turbov7611 i do think that its a good idea, its just that gaijin would have to do a lot of other things to make it work, which they simply wont

@@ofcefcipu8954 you may be right, but gaijin also said AA mssiles and supersonic jets would never make it into WT, but after alot of work they did. But it's questionablr if its prifitable to improve toptier, since they probably make the most money of dimwitted level 4 creditcard players buying jets they cant fly whether it be 5v5 or 12v12

@@turbov7611 only because their businnes model changed to "squeeze every single cent out of this game", and jets turned out to be VERY profitable

they probably arent, gaijin also nerfed the crap out of the f16's engine too

Have fun with the Stock 9J’s lol

@@ICECAPPEDSKY F-14 cries in 9D. They're great actually in a close dogfight but caged seeker is infinite yuck.

I'm glad everyone in my circle agrees with you and I. The 9G limit Gaijin imposed on the F-16 just cucks it into oblivion. All the nerds out there will cite that it's done for "realism" yet no one bats an eye at the F-14 and MiG-23 pulling crazy high Gs (to the point they'd rip wings off or destroy components) in real life. If all the other aircraft are over-performing, it's only fair that the F-16 do the same.

@@keymind117 it isn't even realistic, the G-limiter is there for normal flight use, so a rookie doesn't accidentally slap the stick and send himself flying and burst all his blood vessels and unnecessarily shorten the lifespan of the airframe. In combat it can be turned off and is meant to be used that way, it is a safety tool, but gaijin treats it like a deficit.

yeah. Gayjin ruined it i so many ways

fly by wire. It cannot pull past 9 Gs.

@televisio86 that's irl, in war thunder u can pull 11 to 12 sustained, so think of it as 12 being 9 in irl, and 9 to 10 g's being 7.5, just think about it like that for a sec

@@televisio8652 lmao its war thunder im pulling 12g in a phantom 4e with low fuel

Why do people call it compressed FFS. It's not compressing at all, simply limited by FBW. Also 450 kts is bellow mach 1 and around 850kph to be exact which in game turn performance is great. IRL 400-430 kts is where it turns best and can achieve its highest STR.

@@Xrdyls Phantom doesn't have FBW with a hard coded 9G limit that the pilot can't bypass. It has a superhuman at the controls that is capable of pulling more than a human can. Virtually every fighter in the game is benefiting from that to various degrees. Funnily enough a number of American props and the 190s also suffer from a similar problem brought about by the superhuman pilots.

Just a typo

@@DEFYN ah is all good just asking good video though love the content!

At this point why would you even want to grind British Air. (Coming from a Brit main)

@@firestarteronyoutube5542 Britain is fun but definitely not the best country. The only thing that is really good is the gr.7.

I cant use adens to save my life and I have played the meteors into the dirt, I just dont know what to use

Swedish main here, It's basically an upgraded J35D. You get 2 extra Rb24Js and flares but you lose a gun. From my experience it's more responsive than the J35D but doesn't help too much since you are still at 10.7.

They did, mostly. But they haven't added them to any old vehicles I don't think which is lame.

@@HRCSJSUAMMAS leave it up to gaijin to pull a rockstar lol

it would go up in br and thats not worth it, unless gaijin is felling kind but i doubt it

The adf is the worse one. The regular f16 can keep a aced plane and crew to the limit while the adf turns into a flying brick at high speeds

​@@aaronbowe9523 agreed

@@aaronbowe9523 The thing is that it shouldn't, Gaijin for some reason put in the fly by wire limiters when other planes don't have any consequences for going all out. Gaijin just realized these planes perform too much better than the current jets and then ruined the performance instead.

Cuz of the cas option. The event one whit bad cas options is 10.7

@@Cheesycat0 the tornados payload is absolutely trash

12.7 xD yeah with br compression ok but without it then 12.0 max and mld should get r73 and get a 11.7 br with f-14 too.

@@ayylmao182 no shit

@@Cheesycat0 okay moron

She still is missing engine power and the automatic flaps aren't modeled.

@Dingle P-51s don't have a FBW system with a coded in G limiter though. That is the difference. Also if most things were limited to realistic human capabilities most everything in game would be limited to 6-7Gs in turns with G-suit aircraft the only ones able to sustain 6+ for any really meaningful duration. Imagine most every prop fighter handling like the Hornet. Gaijin doesn't think most players would enjoy that. The ironic thing about what you said is that the P-51, a number of other US prop fighters and the 190s are negatively impacted by this as well as one of their major historical performance advantages (their ability to pull higher Gs at higher speeds) is essentially gone.

​@Dingle Everything I said is relevant. I explained what Gaijin is doing with the other aircraft and why they are able to pull more than they should be. Gaijin is sticking to what they have been. They don't allow vehicles to bypass hard coded limits chosen by the designers. The 9G limit is hard coded into the FBW system. There is no way around it. This is something that they have been following with a number of ground vehicles too. Is it silly? One could easily argue yes. Personally I think the issue isn't that they aren't letting select vehicles pass hard limits set by designers. I think it is the degree of superhuman strength that aircraft can pull.

sure, thing is IRL the F-4 was limited to 7.5 Gs and MiG-23 to 8.5 ... and ingame F-4 can pull 12G+ and 23 14G+ ... you cant have more modern jets designed to pull MORE than legacy designs to be limited while you allow old birds to pull way more than what they were specced to... thats total nonsense

@@Asghaad if you wanna go back to the good old days when F86 was breaking it's wing in the slightest turn be my guest. If you pull as hard as you want in the F16 at 1200 kph, it will either break instantly, or break the game cause it will outurn everything that exist including missiles.