The Battle of Midway-June 4, 1942 with special guest Jon Parshall-Episode 109 

Gentlemen, never be afraid of running long for our sakes. I was 100% engaged and invested right to the end.

I am a Japanese aficionado of Midway. I am fascinated by the videos and thank you for producing them. I recently read a biography on Admiral Yamamoto written by the preeminent Japanese historian, Toshikazu Hando. Published in 2014, a full chapter was devoted to the Japanese planning for Midway. As a small contribution to the channel, I have translated the section, using Google translate and ChatGPT. The result has been edited with my modest English skills. The chapter centers on Kamehito Kuroshima, Yamamoto's chief strategist, who the Admiral treasured for his out-of-the-box plans. In a post war interview, Kuroshima said that the battle could have been won if only Nagumo had stuck to the plan. One thing I would like to know is what Nimitz would have done, if the Japanese had concentrated their superior force on the Midway attack instead of dispersing it around the Pacific. I hope the translation adds an additional perspective on an area of much discussion. “Eccentric strategist” shuts himself up again! The central figure in the development of the Midway operation plan was once more the strategist officer, Colonel Kamehito Kuroshima. Once again, he burned incense in a pitch-black room with the ship's windows closed, concentrating his thoughts in silence. What troubled Kuroshima the most was the movements of the American task force. After the enemy task force’s first bombing of Tokyo, he wondered if the Americans who were actively roaming the seas would fall for the Japanese Navy’s trap. Would they come out to challenge the IJN?. If they took the bait, the conundrum for Kuroshima was how to annihilate them. To achieve this goal, he devised a bold and unconventional plan. He split the IJN fleet into several groups that would depart at different times and places. The plan would rely on skillful coordination and execution. The idea was unorthodox because it ignored both the basic tactical principles of concentrating forces and simplicity and clarity of objectives. The operation’s objectives were complex. But Kuroshima dared to formulate such a plan. "If it was uncertain whether the remaining enemy aircraft carriers would appear or not, the point would be to make sure they were lured out, thus making it a matter of wiping them out. The plan aimed at enticing the enemy task force out to the battle, destroying it in a decisive clash, and simultaneously achieving the goal of capturing Midway. As the saying goes, those who chase two rabbits will catch none; catching two is a whole lot easier said than done. Kuroshima's plan dared to do both by taking the Midway airfield and destroying the enemy fleet." On May 5th, Admiral Yamamoto received General Battle Orders for the Midway operation. It defined the purpose of the operation as follows, “cooperating with IJA, the IJN is to capture AF and the key western areas of AO." AF referred to Midway and AO to the Aleutian Islands. In short it identified the invasion (capture) of the bases as the primary objectives. In response to this, the Combined Fleet Headquarters issued operation guidelines for the attack which set forth Yamamoto’s true aim to the entire fleet, i.e. “Engage and destroy the enemy fleet that is expected to come out for a counterattack.'' Kuroshima's operation plan was extremely elaborate. First, he set the date of Midway’s capture on May 7th(N), and carefully scheduled all the operations to culminate on that date (hereinafter all dates referred to in Japan time) 11 submarines were to be deployed to the north and the west of Pearl Harbor They were to be in position by N-minus 5 (June 2nd) (they were deployed on June 5th due to delays caused by maintenance for the vessels). The opening operation was to be an attack on Dutch Harbor in the Aleutian Islands on N-minus-four (June 3). It was presumed the U.S. task force would be in the dark about the Japanese plan, and react to the attack on American soil either by rushing immediately out of Pearl Harbor toward the Aleutian or at least start preparations to do so. On the same day, the Japanese force would commence landing on Kisaka near the Western end of the Aleutian and thereby further draw enemy’s attention to the North. The Japanese fleet under Admiral Nagumo would attack Midway on N-3(June 4). After thoroughly destroying the island's defenses with carrier bombers, it would steam to the sea between Midway and Hawaii, at the same time providing cover for the following invasion of the island. In scenario 1, the U.S. fleet, which would already be heading northward at full steam toward the Aleutians from Pearl Harbor, would panic when they realized the situation befalling Midway and turn sharply westward toward the island. Alternatively, in scenario 2, if the American aircraft carriers were still moored at Pearl, they would then be weighing anchor (Scenario 2) to meet the threat. The distance from the harbor to Midway was 1,137 nautical miles (about 2,000 km), which would take more than 45 hours to cover as the crow flies. In either scenario, the enemy would be detected by the Japanese submarine picket line stationed to the north and the west of Pearl Harbor. On N-minus 2(June 5th) The Japanese army would land on Attu Island. This would further confuse the Americans as to whether the main thrust of the attack was Midway or the Aleutian. If the enemy kept on heading to the north, they would be spotted by the northern cordon of submarines. At midnight on N-minus 1 (June 6), the army units would begin landing on Midway. On day N (June 7) Midway would be captured and an air base established as soon as possible. It turned out that Nagumo Mobile Unit's departure from the mainland was delayed by a day due to maintenance issues. As a result, all of the following actions were set back by a day from the original plan. In other words, the Nagumo unit's Midway bombing would take place on N-minus 2 (June 5th). Despite this change, however, the date of the landing and capture of the island, N day (June 7th) were not changed. Coordinated operations not uncommonly go awry due to an overly tight schedule. The final day of the operation being unchanged showed how rigid the original plan was. It was a reflection of Kuroshima’s confidence that things would go well no matter what. Kuroshima's plan expected that a spectacular and decisive battle would take place on N plus 1(June 8th). On a line connecting Midway Island and Adak Island in the Aleutians, Nagumo’s mobile force would lie on the South, while Lieutenant General Kakuji Kakuta’s 2nd Mobile Force would be positioned on the North. Kakuta’s force would be heading southward after completing their northern operation. They would be separated by about 500 nautical miles (926 kilometers). On a parallel (North-South) line 300 miles (556 kilometers) to the west, a large force including the battleship "Yamato" under the command of Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto would be deployed to the North while the fleet of battleships commanded by Vice Admiral Shiro Takasu would be positioned to the South. The distance between the two battleship fleets would be 300 nautical miles. Whether the American main fleet sortied out of Pearl Harbor, first heading to the Aleutians and then hastily turning west to Midway under scenario 1, or alternatively departing port later and heading straight for Midway under scenario 2, in either case they would be encircled in the powerful box formation of the Japanese navy. The U.S. fleet would take a horrible beating sandwiched between the two battle-hardened mobile units. Attempting to withdraw from the battlefield, the Americans would be pursued by the advancing battleship fleet led by the battleship Yamato and dealt the finishing blow. It was a grand strategy. A large force consisting of more than 200 participating ships would be divided into ten groups and spread out from the north to central the Pacific. All would advance according to the operation plan that was to culminate on N day, the date of Midway’s occupation. It was a grand and magnificent plan, but “only if it worked!” “A brush of the armor sleeve will be decisive” words from the mouth of the arrogant …　 In the end, Admiral Yamamoto was unable to thoroughly convey his conviction to the fleet regarding the operation’s primary objective, i.e. annihilating the enemy task force. Strategist Officer Kuroshima believed that even if the enemy task force finally counterattacked, it would set out to face the Japanese Navy only after the attack on Kiska Island and Midway. Convinced that scenario 1 or 2 were the only possibilities, he developed an elaborate plan based on the premise. The Combined Fleet Headquarters had incorporated the true purpose of the operation into the IJN's Operation Guidelines. It specified “Engage and destroy the enemy fleet that was expected to counterattack.” (Note: it specifically called for half the carrier aircrafts to be held in reserve to deal the American carriers). However, as he headed toward the battle, Nagumo’s mind was full of the Imperial Japanese Naval Staff's General Battle Orders to capture Midway (Note: This did not specifically set forth the requirement for reserves. As a note of clarification, the IJNS was responsible for the planning and execution of national defense strategy. It reported directly to the Emperor, not to the Prime Minister, National Diet or even the Navy Ministry). On top of this, he was convinced that there would be no way the enemy would come out to challenge his task force, which was considered invincible at the time. As the ships sailed to Midway, morale of the fleet soared as high as the sky. …N day (June 7th)

Kitty Butai!😂😂 As a cat lover, I think that's friggin' great!

"Kitty Butai" - LOL - well played! I'm hoping there are no Cat launches for Akagi...

Jon's collabs with Drach are superb. Your channel is a dream come true at this point of my dodgy 'studies.'. Much appreciated.

Gentlemen, please don't feel obligated to rush the episode. I love the side bar chats, and I think a lot of us are capable of listening for another hour if need be. Keep up the great work!

One of the last living pilots of USS YORKTOWN lives in Foresthill, California, had a long talk with him at the post office, he thought I was there. Hero of Tarawa lived across the street from me. Flying Tigers also lived there at their airstrip.

So much better to listen to than sensationalist, generalisation filled, standard documentaries. Love how you walk through the ideas and especially what the actual sailors are doing and the practical things that they need to do to get planes in the air for example.

Ive been fascinated with this at 12 years old.Shattered Sword finally gave a total story, accurate to the partial flight Records. John may think its funny, but my cat is named Kato. Hiriu's Spipper or Akagi's..im 67, so i forget. P.S.. This is the 5th time this episode played through, like episodes on Santa Cruz, Savo the USS Washington,The Night The Giants duked it out. Glad you're getting big time exposure, Seth and Bill.

What I have to remind myself is this was 6 months after we entered the War !!!! SIX MONTHS ❤😊😊😊

On June 3 Ens. Gaylord Propst strapped a torpedo on to his PBY Catalina and made a successful night attack on the tanker Akebono Maru of the Support Force of Kido Butai. It was the first blood drawn at Midway & the only U.S. torpedo hit in all of the battle. Probst was MIA Dec. 1942. The Cat's stamina was legendary. With a range of 2500 mi., it could stay in the air for 20 hrs. For us aircraft geeks it used the same engines used on B-24, C-47, & Wildcat

Jon Parshall is one of my favorite historians along with Richard Frank, I really enjoy listening to these talks and learning things new.

As someone who has an undergraduate degree in history and a master’s in military history, you guys are to be commended for the incredible product that you are putting out. Keep it up. I’m getting through these a couple a day. I’ll be sad when I catch up to your latest podcast.

When one considers that this sinking of four Japanese aircraft carriers at Midway occurred ONLY six months after Pearl Harbor it becomes even more amazing.

I can't imagine a more knowledgeable guest than Jon for these episodes. He literally wrote the book and is the reigning authority on the subject... especially as it pertains to the Pacific theater. What's more, his personality is such that you get the feeling that he'd be voted "The Historian I would Most Like to Have a Beer With." Bravo gentlemen!

Funny, how listening in on a conversation is so much more enjoyable than being lectured.

When you REALLY want to learn the nuts and bolts of WWII battles This is the program you need to watch ! Bringing ALL the info known (at this time) about each battle together in a very comprehensible manner makes understanding these battles much easier . Understanding the "people" and how so many different things formed their decisions really helps put things in perspective . Well done gentlemen !

Original theory here: If you look at a box shape from different angels. One viewer will see a diamond with a closer carrier, and the other viewer will see a box shape with two carriers equadistant. Assuming both McClusky and Best are both telling the truth, which I do, they were coming in at different angles and therefore one saw a box and the other saw a diamond.

This whole thing was great. The longer I listen to material about Midway I gain greater appreciation for the professionalism and training of the Japanese carrier crews (as opposed to the low-on-the-learning-curve USN), yet the dogmatism of the IJN and the initiative of the US servicemen constitute balancing factors. Makes you also wonder (however we can understand it or even imagine it?) how fate/the Hand of the Deity factors in, almost as if someone was watching over things. What a cast of characters, and you guys are not bad yourself. As always.....................THANKS.

The men who fought in that war truly were the greatest generation. I have never been so proud to be an American as I am when I hear what they did for not only America, but the rest of the world.

I bet the guys on midway were happy when they found out that there were carriers off shore. Great job guys!!

It is so fortunate to have such informed history discussed about Midway. Thanks very much for sharing your combined wisdom. Your program was very good I could Hiryu clearly. Couldn't help it.

Wow! Enjoyed every second!!! Instant subscribe. I thought I knew everything about the Pacific and Midway in particular…I was wrong. Eagerly awaiting more content!!!!

Really enjoyed this. Despite having graduated from both the Army Command and General Staff College and the Air War College, I have never been privileged to hear such a detailed account of the Battle of Midway from planning through execution. I salute you for such a superb and thorough discussion! Colonel, US Army (Ret)

Thank you all so much. A really fantastic mix of high level scholarship, research, personal experience and oral history from participants. For those of us on the other side of the pond who naturally tend to focus on Europe this is educational in a massive may

Recently, I heard one of your cronies talking about the Zero vs F4 Wildcat (etc.) comparison and he said, very clearly, that the Zero was a good airplane but was a lousy warplane. He referenced the lack of self-sealing fuel tanks and the lack of armor protection for the pilot, both items made for an airplane that was faster, more maneuverable and could climb faster than the F4. The Zero also was said to have difficulty making an evasive move to the right. He also brought out the up sides of the F4. I guess that I would at least partly of not mostly agree with him. I flew F4 Phantoms over the DMZ in Vietnam. My work was mostly air to mud but I did have the opportunity to fly against the MIG21, which was a pretty good opponent. The one thing I learned in an Advanced Combat Maneuvering class and was substantiated during air combat, was that a good pilot in a mediocre airplane will beat a mediocre pilot in a good airplane. Chuck Yeager demonstrated that on many occasions. I think my point is that the Zero wasn't THAT good, but it was being flown by pilots who had been fighting with it far longer than most of the US Navy pilots had been flying F4s. With the introduction of "the Thatch weave", the Zero"s advantage became less of a factor. Sorry. I'm just one of those hyper egocentric pilots who will always believe that a good pilot will beat a good airplane every time !!! LOL.

I thought I new quite a bit about wwll and after I retired I started studying the war and the more I learned the more i realized just how little I actually knew someone could spend a lifetime and still not cover it all.

I have read reasonably widely on battle of Midway but this episode was outstanding. The sacrifice of the US torpedo plane pilots and gunners was so humbling. Turned the war around. Thank you for an outstanding session.

Outstanding presentation. Thank you Seth. Bill, and John.

1st time here, enjoy it very much and became a subscriber. I'm a little surprised though you all didn't give credit to Captain Miles Browning. When Admiral Halsey was admitted to the hospital just right before the battle he told Spruance to trust his staff, especially Captain Browning. Also, Captain Browning was the one who told Admiral Spruance to time the attack of Kito Butai when they are recovering from the Midway strike. Sidenote: Captain Browning is the grandfather of Chevy Chase the actor.

I found out about this from Drach... This is an excellent panel. New Sub!

You guys are the best. As much as I know about this stuff, I always learn more and you deliver it well.

I'm binge watching the whole series, and boy, this is some very good content. In depth enough, but also clear to be understood by a simple aficionado, with a barebones knowledge of the PTO. PS: Shatered Sword is a must have book indeed.

Fantastic series so far. Looking forward to more episodes!

Excellent and riveting dialogue

Well done! I enjoyed every minute of the podcast.

Seth, Captain Toti thanks. I really like Jon and his work & value his contributions. Appreciated.

Fantastic work, gentlemen!!! Enjoyed the ENTIRE work - even hearing you guys present factual information that have exploded many historical myths and inaccuracies about this battle! I heard about it as a child from my father, a WW2 vet and was really impressed with the story of Torpedo 8, Lt. Cmdr. Waldron and Ens. Gay…Bravo Zulu!!!

Just found your channel, love it, thank you!

While I know it's hard for you guys, I enjoy the longer episodes. Very glad I found your channel and podcast

I missed commenting on this one...... Great program! Thank You all so much!

Really great video with information I haven’t heard before. Thanks.

splendid content! outstanding work, thank you

The algorithm brought me here… glad to know it’s not completely broken! Anyway, enjoyed the video and just subscribed. Cant wait to view your back catalog and look forward to future uploads!

Absolutely excellent!!!!! Great job gentlemen

Guys thanks for bringing these great hero-pilots to life!

Excellent presentation. Thank you.

Hi guys! Just thought I would watch this one more time. Love it! If Japan would have ruined the oil farms and the dry docks they would have really hurt us. No fuel no problem with anything for them. Then they should have hit Midway on the way home. It was right on the way I think. I don’t understand why they were so scared and rushed everything without finishing the job. They acted like they were so frightened but there wasn’t very much we could have done against such a large fleet. They just half ass did almost everything they did. They kept talking about the killing blow and had several chances but chickened out every time. You guys are great!!!!

A fantastic discussion. Thank you.

I am an amateur naval historian and I find this podcast both enjoyable and incredibly informative. I like the back fourth and the fact you a retired navy sub driver to provide additional perspective. Keep up the Awesome!

A thoroughly outstanding presentation. The podcast allowed for discussion of important minutia that is normally never discussed. A really great analysis and discussion.

I love this channel i love that they put us in the heat of battle and preparations of both sides

I found an interesting article about the flight to nowhere. Seems the Americans were expecting four Japanese aircraft carriers at Midway and also assumed they would be separated into two groups. In the initial sighting only two carriers were spotted and the fight to “nowhere” was an attempt to find the other two.

Great presentation! The chemistry between you guys is really amazing. It’s one thing to know your stuff but it’s another thing entirely to be able to present it clearly, concisely and with a genuine, compelling discussion. Seth, Bill and Jon you have all made a great contribution here. You guys really knocked it out of the park with this one. Thank you so much for all your time and effort put into this project. And I can’t wait to see part three of your series on Midway!

Great discussion of the famous battle. Parshall provides excellent analysis and Seth and Bill do their typical good job of moving the commentary along with key questions and observations. Excellent podcast.

This is really one of the best, in any manor of judgement you choose to employ, of the type.

Thank you guys for doing these videos. Its so awesome when the three of you are there reliving ww2.. Im 64 yrs old and very interested in the way things went on as the years progressed.

My favorite movie of all time is the Original Midway. I look forward to hearing this podcast. It is late so will watch/listen tomorrow. Peace and keep it up guys. Former HT2 on a Gator freighter.

I love the longer video!!! I consider these morning history lectures.

Excellent stuff. You both do an excellent job of mixing the high level stuff then change to the individual aviators and their stories. Keep up the good work.

Wonderful discussion! 🙏❤

Bill's and Jon's remarks about the interplay between systems, dogma, and "individual heroes" from 8:00 on really resonate for me, and I think that they really capture some fundamental truths of modern warfare. It really is a war of systems, with the system being the essential foundation for great individual accomplishment rather than vice-versa.

These podcasts are fantastic, guys! Please keep doing them so more people can discover your channel.

So many heroes on this day. Waldron and his TBD's stand out to me as such a tragedy. Waldron literally risks his career to argue with the flight leader about where the Japanese fleet is. Then he leads his men off to the southwest, in what is truly one of the great acts of insubordination in the face of the enemy recorded in American military history. Had he been wrong, we can imagine him being made the scape goat and court martialed. Being right cost him and all but one man of his squadron their lives. My respect for Waldron is vast, I suspect had Waldron known what he his odds truly were (and he knew they were low), he'd have made the same damn decision anyhow, choosing to attack the enemy rather than flying off to empty ocean. The focus on doing his duty and determination to attack the enemy is worthy of our highest admiration. Yet ultimately, in a way he couldn't have known, torpedo squadron 8's sacrifice was unnecessary. As usual, I've got dust in my eyes writing about this.

Another superb episode, gentlemen. Thank you all very much.

You all do these brilliant podcasts, which I watch and listen with immense pleasure. Your knowledge, presentation and interaction is excellent. Thank you Kindly for what you do. Please may we have more.

Never to long when discussing history, Thanks Guys.

Great insight....I have seen thousands or military docs from around 1970...the doc about the sinking of the Indianapolis with Captain Toti is right up there with the very best...unbelievable drama/tragedy/survival...still cannot fathom what these guys went through.

My dad was on the Lexington at Coral Sea as a E8 observer. When the destroyer that pulled him out of the sea arrived back at Pearl. He spent the next week at CONPACFLT being interviewed and sitting in on battle report sessions. As the results of those sessions air resonances was improved on. And then he was assigned to the Enterprise for the Midway operation as a E9 observer. He reported directly to Halsey because Halsey respected reports from Chefs more than some officers who would be inclined to cover their backside. During Midway dad spent a lot of his time in the com station listening to airmen. He said that everybody was worried that the battle would be lost when the fighter did not arrive with the torpedo planes. But everybody's scrotum dropped back to normal when the dive bombers arrived with little Japanese air cover. And the Japanese screening vessels were out of position to properly cover the carriers. Because of the carriers turn into the wind so to launch aircraft.

That is pure history, the microcosm, individual stories told to these guys and passed on to us...hard to imagine the heroism

I do believe that the dirty word You were looking for to describe the uncoordinated US strike is "FusterCluck"

New sub here, this podcast is outstanding. Ty gentlemen.

Thank you gentlemen.

Good discussion. Thanks

Excellent!

I have a feeling I'll be revisiting many of these episodes for years to come.

I read Shattered Sword years ago. Amazing book! I recommend it to anyone interested in the Pacific war.

I agree. You gentlemen never bore me.

Really interesting and very well done gents.

I picture Dick Best keeping his head in the most consequential moment of his military career, having the situational awareness amongst the noise, smoke, and adrenaline to realize that the other American bombers have forgotten about Akagi. To then gather what he can, just two more SBDs with him, and then metaphorically to think, no problem, she won't escape, because I'll sink her myself. It would have been laudable even if the story was, one senior SBD pilot realized the situation, held back himself and two other SBDs, led a three plane attack run on Akagi, but scored no hits. The story would be, wow, what quick thinking, too bad it didn't work. But the reality is, after all that, Best scored the most devastating single bomb hit of the day. What a legend!

Homerun . Love this love the detail thought I knew all about Midway I have been enriched!

Excellent show

"Kitty Butai" 🤣🤣🤣 Great show again.

Great content 👍

I need a Navy golf shirt like the Commodore is wearing. I’m a Navy carrier vet, USS Nimitz (CVN-68). I was the Third Butter Cutter on the mess deck. Go Navy!

Love this show

Character, courage and competence make systems operative everytime.

Thank you.

Great show as usual. I would really be interested in the "Flight to Nowhere" that group of Hornet pilots that went off in the wrong direction at Midway and their squad leader who returned without ever having seen the Japanese carriers - plus his torpedo bombers that ignored his headings and went straight to the carriers with out any fighter cover.

As I remember, the SBD was responsible for the most shipping losses compared to all other allied aircraft. Slow But Deadly, she is quite an aircraft. The Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola has some beautiful examples along with many other breathtaking exhibits.

Excellent again

This is awesome content.

Spruance's night decision to stand off is interesting. This was before the painful lessons of the Solomons that the IJN put a lot of effort into training for surface combat and were really good at it. I wonder whether his surface forces background had him thinking, "If I had a bunch of cruisers and a couple of battleships, I'd ...".

As for John Ford and his film unit being on Midway during the battle. I think it was in Admiral Layton's memoir he mentions him and admiral Nimitz pondering the risk to the codebreaking secret if they sent Ford out ahead of the battle. They eventually decided to take the risk and flew them out in time to film the events.

Really enjoyed this video. Two comments, Spruance may not have been an aviator, but he was an experienced naval officer, plus as was commented on in the video, this was brand new stuff for the US Navy. Not even the aviators really knew exactly what they were doing. One thing that has always bothered me in reading about carrier operations in WW2 is when the aviators keep pushing to be in charge of all aviation, but carriers are SHIPS too. Being a sailor is required too. My second comment is that by that point Enterprise and her crew had been basically in combat since December 7th. The leisurely launch on June 4th is probably an example of this fatigue.

USS Nautilus is one of my fave subs from the war. She may not have sunk that many warships but she got her share & she was always out there making herself useful.

Love the channel! My question is, nobody mentioned the cancelation of the Japanese scouting mission to French Frigate Schoals and the impact of that.

excellent. so much better than the standard midway talking points.

Thanks!

I cannot believe that such few subscribe number of this great channel.