Paul, I cannot thank you enough for this tidbit of info. While I knew this option for connecting equipment together existed, I had no idea how much of an improvement in sound quality it would make. Even on my entry level system consisting of an older Pioneer A/V receiver, a pair of Polk S20 bookshelf speakers and an ancient (lol) Sony 125w 12" subwoofer. (go ahead and feel free to laugh guys)
Man, i've jumped across multiple high-end audio online stores in order to ask for advice via email or online chat, and have tried forums as well. After getting frustrated with their lack of knowledge and overall inconsistency, stumbling onto these videos is a breath of fresh air! I had all my questions answered in just two consise videos, without having to even ask. Cheers.
Gave this a shot today with my Carver TrueSub. Love it! I find it blends with the music much more cohesively, and has far less of the "bump" sound commonly associated with a powered sub.
Actually the channel LFE ( the .1 thing) is no more used by IMax. They use this channel for "height channel ". Bass management ( summing all channels using a op-amp , usually called as buffer and then it will go through signal processing ( in case of DSP) or active filter and phase correction of required. So go for an active filter ( you can do it yourself using any good op amp chips or buy a ready made subwoofer filter board and then fed the output to any class D amp board ( go for tda8954 if you have dual power supply or tda7498 or just use a class AB - tda 7293 bridge parellel to deliver true 400 watts
I have gotta say, between your knowledge, your passion, and your sheer charm I have a hard time breaking away from watching your videos. Thanks for sharing the wealth, Mr. McGowan!
For LFE or "SUB" output, whether mono or stereo, I like to use shielded RCA cables. I make my own using shielded alarm cable and attatching the cable's shield to the RCA's shield on one end only, I chose the receiver end. It works great. The cable's aluminum shield "absorbs" any electrical noise and grounds it through the receiver. It sounds better than any other cable I've used, and allowed me to run it behind walls and cut to perfect length.
Great video, Paul! I wanted to comment here that I recently made the switch from low level (RCA) inputs to high level (speaker) inputs on my Klipsch subwoofer. I was skeptical but the difference literally was night and day. Can't thank you enough for the encouragement.
Fantastic explanation Paul. As someone who has dabbled in professional audio equipment for 20 years, I have somehow dodged the use of a subwoofer. Now I don't feel so insecure when I see one, and will look to purchase an active unit to play around with.
I’ve only just discovered PSAudio as a company and am so happy I did. Have watched heaps of Pauls’ videos now and everything he says resonates (see what I did there). RE: the subs, this validates everything I’ve come to know as well. I’ve got two REL T5/i subs, wired directly to the amp (one right, one left) in a 2.2 setup providing low end support for a pair of B&W CM5s2 bookshelf speakers (this is the last model B&W ever did with Kevlar yellow driver that didn’t have that horrible and bright tweeter-on-top design. My DAC is old... Emotiva XDA-2... 7 years old and doesn’t get the most out of this setup. On the hunt now for a replacement and PSAudio is top of my list, but harder to find in Australia. PS: Being in Boulder is icing on the cake! Colorado rocky mountain high!!
Thank you for this video! I am re-arranging my humble system and was going to use the RCA jacks on my M&K sub thinking it would be a preferred setup. I was wrong and I thank you for explaining to me the how & why of using the speaker outs instead of the preamp outs. Very much appreciate!
My TBI DPM subs have never had a problem with disappearing no what pre-amps and/or amp and speaker combinations I have used. And I have always chosen the low level pre outs. Perfect sound!
Due to space limitations I can't have a fully separate set of speakers for my stereo and my home theater (plus I like to listen to multi-channel music sometimes, sue me ;) ), so I have my receiver with pre-amp outs running into a preamp with HT bypass into a 2 channel amp for my front/stereo speakers, which I have a smaller sealed sub connected from the amp to the high level inputs, I then have two ported subs connected to the '.2' outputs of my receiver, and I set my front speakers to 'large' so they aren't crossed over there and the other channels and LFE go to the other subs. I really like that setup.
This is interesting. This is how I've connected to my sub. I'm using a NAD 2600 amplifier with an extra set of speaker wires to a basic Energy subwoofer (that has the high level inputs). What amazes me is that no matter how loud I push the system (and it will be super clean and too loud even for me) the Energy sub never has a problem. No bottoming out. No distortion. It actually keeps up, although at some point (I feel) where the volume is high, the sub doesn't get any louder. All in all this has always amazed me. I've always attributed this to the NAD (and built in protection of the Energy sub). And yes, it makes my ordinary speakers sing.
My sub (an active one) is connected exactly the way Paul sais (from the speaker power outputs of my amp) and the sound of my system is indeed amazingly rich. With a natural bass (deep and light in the same time), completely different than the one my home cinema system is producing. Perfect for music enjoyment. 😌🎶
I asked about subwoofer connection a day ago and you kindly answered my question. Your recommendation of connecting the sub directly to the amplifier has intrigued me. My sub is a JL Audio e112 ( a pair ). When I got them, I took advantage of their technical help which is is an over the phone call. I have Ariel 7 Floor Standing Speakers. Conrad Johnson Pre-amp and Amp. The Technician advised me to take cables from the Pre-amp Out to the JL e112’s Input and the JL e 112’s Outs to the Imputs of the Amp. Obviously using the right and left connections separately. The e112’s have a Crossover knob and a Phase knob and also a flip switch for 180 or O settings . Finally using the recommended crossover settings and then setting the phase to get the best response.
It is amazing the difference a sub woofer makes. When i moved from a house into an apartment i had to downsize my system.... happily replaced my floor standers with smaller bookshelf speakers.... but i had to keep the sub.
Wow just learned something new today from this video,I always assumed that you get a cleaner signal from your rca output but just the opposite gotta try this out when I get time
Glad I got my hand on a REL storm V (hi level input) and it blends in perfectly and opens the room. Love it. the sub let you adjust to the roomacoustic and the mainspeakers. The music is bigger and more colourfull. Love your passion
Thanks Paul, you give more insight and info - understandable stuff. I enjoyed my ridg but had to continually run back and forth adjusting the volume on my subs when I changed music.. I run them stereo next to my main (full range) speakers, it was driving me crazy. Now I have one knob to twiddle for volume and it's wonderful I must say I had my reservations running them from my amp. Thanks again!
Thanks that advice is excellent. I found that the Pure Audio mode in my Onkyo AVR is far superior to the stereo output but it disables the subwoofer. By using the front pre-amp outs for the sub and using the filter in the sub now I get the sub in all modes and it integrates much better with my floor standing speakers
We have a REL328 it's awesome. Connected as the maker recommended. Sub LFE output from home theatre amp to the sub input on the REL, and the speaker cable left / right Piggy backed from the dedicated front Left and right amp to the REL high level input. That dedicated front left / right amp is also for dedicated music listening. All works brilliantly.
Paul, you got it only partially right. You will need to high-pass the main speakers to perfectly match output, reduce IMD and save some power handling (also energy). That's why the correct way of connecting a subwoofer is through a crossover, be it digital or analog.
what type of crossover product would you recommend for this? Ive also been wondering the same thing, thinking I can use the internal crossover in my AVR by using a second zone to send to the sub. I would much rather not have to use the second zone as it doesn't have the same delay adjustability as my main LR output.
Thanks Paul, nice presentation and very useful. Might I add that a main reason for using the high-level connection is that you can just set the SW volume and cross-over levels once and forget about it. When using the line input you have to keep adjusting the SW volume every time you adjust the main volume. Not the way to go. Additionally, my SW has an auto power on/off, responding to the input signal. I do not even have to switch it on and off.
Thanks Paul, I took your advice and hooked up my Dual SVS PB-1000 subs to the high level inputs using speaker cable from my XPA-2 amplifier. It did make a difference, one that I immediately heard. I am still dialing it in, but the sound, especially with 2 channel audio is more natural, blending in nicely with my SVS Ultra bookshelf speakers. I'm really liking the new sound.
@@kennethroymonterroyo5657 You can use two Y cables or two RCA adapters, one male RCA input with two Female RCA outputs x 2. Pretty easy to do. I have my SB3000 subs hooked up using the RCA adapters I bought on Amazon. RCA F Splitter Plug Adapter 1 Male to 2 Female Adapter - RCA Male to RCA Dual Female (4 Pack)
Added a pair of Rel T5 subs into my two channel system about 5 years ago, connected as you suggest, and have never looked back. I'm actually not a fan of excessive bass, just want to be able to hear the full range of the recording. Would have to say, other than changing speakers, it has been easily the biggest upgrade I have made in my system. Highly recommended. Great vid Paul.
I'm just a newbie to this, but am baffled as to "how" a pair of subs can be added to a system when only one "sub out" is usually in integrated amps, how did you add your two subs if you don't mind me asking? And what amp did you use to add them?
Paul, I can't thank you enough for all your GREAT videos. I have learned so much! B.T.W. you would make an excellent teacher/professor you have a great demeanor and a really awesome way to explain things! Thank you again!
I can’t believe I have discovered this channel just recently. The amount of valuable info is amazing! Thank you for all you do and I’m going to take on the invitation to Colorado and start saving. Because I know I will be converted and will be buying some of the hi fi from PS audio
Rel makes excellent subs, I owned one and enjoyed it for the time I had it. Vandersteen also makes excellent subs and they are connected through the amplifier as well, the difference in approach between REL and Vandersteen is, Vandersteen uses a crossover between the sub and it's connected to the amp and you select the output impedance of your amp and put that value into the crossover and Rel does not, they use a Neutrik Cable to connect to the sub, but they too are wired to the amp. When I had my Belles 20 preamp and a set of Emotiva subs, I too connected directly from the XLR on the sub to the 2nd output of the Belles XLR, which I enjoyed. The Vandersteen 2ce II Signatures (I own with 2- 2WQs) and the model 3 Signatures, do have bass by themselves, but I get your premise because the upper end of the Vandersteen line starting with the Quattro Trios, 5's and the mighty Model 7's do have sub built in for that deep bass fill in. Emotiva in Franklin, TN. also allows customers to come in and look around and I have met the President and CEO, Dan, who is an extremely nice person. This is an excellent practice Paul and I would love to eventually come by and hear your Infinity RS system one day. You seem like a generally nice person and good business man, keep up the good work on the channel.
Didn’t have a subwoofer out on my amp so I ran the PSW 10 subwoofer line in off the left speaker input and it sounds great. I was afraid it would miss some of the bass but it didn’t. Left or right or combined it sounds the same- great! 👍👍👍
Are you doing LFE+Main? I just picked up my second 12" Klipsch r-120sw and both seem to only work in that setting. I do have non-parralel sub-outs on a new X-series denon.
Thanks to your advice, I recently connected my subwoofer via the high level inputs in parallel out of the amp output. What a big difference!!! Is like a new system upgrade!! Thanks Maximo Iglesias Dominican Republic
I’ve been doing this for years and absolutely love the sound. Audiophile snobs all had their opinions that I listened to but kept doing what I was doing. Why? Because I liked the sound and that’s why we own such luxuries is for the the sound reproduction that we personally enjoy. Thanks Paul
Great video. I use two active subwoofers on my system and the difference is amazing. I may well look you guys up next time I am Stateside. Thanks again.
Paul, your clear and intelligent suggestions enabled me to hook up my 'vintage' Technics Amp to my Energy MS Sub. (now sounds great) You simplified a task that cut thru all the online 'Gumbo'. Bravo and Thanks
I hooked up my Rel T9 sub to the high level output on my new Cyrus One amp to the speaker terminals like you said but it just made a throbbing sound on my sub. There are 4 terminals for each speaker on the amp for bi wiring so I hooked them up to the same ones as the speakers. Will need to figure this one out as I do what to have full range on my speakers. I love your channel Paul all the way from Scotland.
I agree with Paul, active sub connected to the amplifiers output. I recently bought an Audio Physic Terra, the original before it was named Rhea...My God, it is absolutely fantastic. Have a large room, and this beast can do 10hz almost flat..and when you stand right in front of it when playing REAL deep bass, you wonder whether it is active or not, you hear and feel nothing where it is. Once upon, and still, referred to as one of the few "True Subs"
Thank you so much! I have been discussing all day long with some people on a forum about what the best way to hook up a subwoofer is. Half said line level and half high pass. High pass makes more sense to me and it brought me to your favorite subwoofer company. REL. I have known of REL but never really knew much about them. And it seems like they have it nailed with that hook up system they have. I am going to look into a pair of TI5’s.
Thanks Paul! You just confirmed my experiences with my own set: Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors, connected to my REL Strata sub by using the high current input (REL has it's own cables with a neutrik plug at the subwoofers end, the other ends are connected to the speaker terminals of the amp) The sealed sub sounds very tight and competely integrated with the monitors. Just great sound!
I also hook up my duo JL Subwoofers e112 to the speakers terminals of the poweramp by very thin cables. Best result so far with my Maggies 3.7 speakers :)
Seemed like a simple answer to a simple question but it took 7 minutes to get there ! LOL Love your stuff Paul , I was a big fan of Julian Hirsch and you remind me of him somewhat . Thanks as always for your insight
BTW, Paul. Your suggestion to use the high-level outputs is excellent so the subs receives the same signal as the mains. I've not tried it myself but I think I shall. Along that same vein I'd like to suggest, whether using high or low-level inputs, the ic's or sc's (speaker cables) should be of the exact same mfg'er and model used elsewhere in the system to hopefully achieve much the same desired results you already described. In my experience, this has been a wonderful technique to better integrate and synergize the subs to the mains. In the case of your suggested high-level inputs, using the exact same speaker cables for the sub as the mains should be the icing on the cake by providing the best integration opportunities possible. I started this technique back in 2002 and I was amazed at how much better the sound gel'ed. I think this is a very important point about using exact same wiring because for decades so-called "experts" have been telling us that any cheap old cable to sub should be more than sufficient because after all we're only talking low-level frequencies and cabling really doesn't matter. Quality or at least similarities matter at all frequency levels and introducing such differences between the mains and sub far too often leads to a disjointed sound. Just don't tell the so-called "experts". :)
In addition to having the same type of speaker cables (in terms of materials), do you also think its important the length of the speaker cables are the same? If I'm running 12ft speaker cables to my main speakers do you think its fine to run an 8ft speaker cable to the sub? Or would you suggest both sets of cables be the same length?
Okay you just improved by little starter system by 50%. I was using pre-out to a Velodyne sub, which does have speaker-level inputs. I didn't know you could just twist speaker wires together and go to 2 inputs at once (bi-wiring?). Anyway, you are ***so*** right...this change pulled the sound together into a cohesive whole. So much so that it is now revealing the weaknesses (and strengths) of my little Dayton Audio bookshelf speakers. Before, the sound was bloated and weird almost no matter how low I turned the volume down on the sub. Now I am also able to turn the amp up on the sub to about 50% (before it was very low, like 10%-15%) and I think that may also have been a factor. In any case, this is really great. It even improves the near-field listening. I can *hear* the speakers now. So glad I saw this video. Thank you, Paul! Hope to visit someday.
Thanks, Paul for all of your RU-vid videos !! I have been out of the audio industry here in NZ since the late '80s when I went back into dental technology but I have retained my love of music ... thru good or great equipment that I have owned for a good number of years now .... hey it's not broken and still thrills 🙂 I found this sub video especially good and has cemented my decision to go to REL for my bottom end .... Happy Xmas from down-under
I’m using a Logitech subwoofer that Came with my old computer speaker set. I have run the rca subwoofer Chablé from Walmart from the auxiliary RCA jack in the back, to the subwoofer out of an old Yamaha AVR I got off craigslist for $30. My main speakers are the Klipsch RP-150M for bedroom listening at my desk and movie watching. I got them from amazon for $260 in cherry veneer. Super happy with my purchases. Total cost including cables and avr was about $310. Happy birthday to me.
Because I'm the umpteenth person to watch this Paul should send me his top disc player,. his top DAC, his top pre amp, his top 2 channel smplifier and his top speakers all with his favourite cables and wires and with free shipping to me here in Canada. This way I won't have to listen to Mahler on cheap equipment anymore, during my old age. And he will feel just wonderful about himself for doing it !!
Fantastic description and info. I wondered why a lot of subs had speaker inputs from the amp to the sub and then outputs back out again to the speakers , which now I see are not really needed and just complicate things with additional cabling ......you just need to use the inputs to sub either supplied with pre or speaker level inputs.... simple's ... I can't wait to experiment now.👍
My subwooefer was he first piece of gear I bought. Even when I was still using computer speakers and cd player on the PC, I had the 150watt KLH subwoofer and it still sounded "rich" (sort of.)
I have a passive sub, an old one that was sold by DAK. My AV receiver has a low level sub woofer output, and I'm using this to drive an external amp (70-100 watts per channel into 6 ohms which is the impedance of the DAK SW.) I use a Y cable to split the mono SW output to drive both channels of the external amp, which then drives each channel of the SW. The DAK SW is a passive one, with a speaker level crossover, it has outputs for the Left and Right main speakers, but I'm not using those. It's a dual VC speaker, and each VC is now driven by its own power amplifier.
i've been using the preout on my integrated for years, i always assumed speaker level inputs were there in case you didn't have preouts. i can't see how speaker level would be a better signal, since rca would be far cleaner and more direct signal than the speaker level one. i will give it a try at some point.
For the less fortunate people, JBL LSR 310 from the studiomonitors entry level is a good sub despit only stereo low level -10db or + 4db input but with crossover build in. I split the preamp signal from a vintage Sansui AU-555 amp to feed him. No eq needed, nearly flat response in my room. Turbosound 3 way system. bass TSB-110 - top Impact 50. sub LSR-310
This is very confusing. I have always heard that the best way to send a signal to a sub is through the low level (RCA) outputs. Which makes perfect sense to me as I would think the amplified signal (from the speaker outputs on the amp/receiver) would be degraded by the crossover network in the sub. I'd like to know if this is true or not. I just feel very leery of sending a high level signal to a sub crossover and expecting it to not be affected in some way. Great channel by the way!!!
I hate it when you're right Paul, and you're always right. ;) This could apply to your other post on this subject specifically. Sending the signal from my speaker outs on my amp to the subs solved all of my bass desires. There is no other way to get them precisely in phase. By the by: My view on this issue is this; any system should be able to clearly resolve bass to 30hz. 20hz is the holly grail. But for most music I consider the ability of a minimum system is to reproduce a Hammond B3 accurately, 32hz. The extra 2 is for reverberation of 32hz. The only thing this doesn't apply to is classical where you may have a full pipe organ, or a Bosendofrer Grand Bohemian with the black keys. More importantly your subs, personal preference, should be at least one speaker size larger than your woofer, preferably two.
Thank you! My entry-level Cambridge integrated amplifier has no subwoofer out, so I connected it to my subwoofer via the speaker outs. Because I only have one set of speaker outs I split the signal from my amp to my speakers and sub-woofer. I thought this was a compromise and was going to undo that when I upgrade my amp. Now, it seems I'll just leave all of these cables spliced and ignore any sub out that the new amp might have.
Thanks for your amazing videos! Question: I can only connect my amp to the subwoofer and from sub to speakers, but then the sounds starts cutting at high volume. If I connect amp to speakers first and use only one channel for the sub then it's fine. I am not sure why it's cutting off the sound if both channels are connected to the sub? If anyone have any idea why that happens please let me know. Many thanks
I have 2 RELs without the high level inputs but have rca inputs. So, I added 2 splitters to the avr front rca preouts. An rca goes to the input of the subs and the other goes to the rca 2 channel amp. Then I added an RCA from the lfe out of the avr and plugged it in the lfe of the rel sub. I run the avr in pure audio for music which is 2 channel full range and set the rel crossover around 60. For movies, I change the subs crossovers to 120 and switch the avr to multichannel or thx. The subs definitely sound more blended for 2 channel music than when I had the subs only connected to the avr sub out. It was boomy before. Now it’s smooth and the subs just blend in with the towers. Much better!
So I recently switched my main speakers to 4 ohm ones. Can I still use the high output setup you recommend or does that drop my impedance too low like running a second set of speakers in parallel?
I have a few subs that only have RCA socket inputs, so I ended up modifying a few amplifiers to suit, all I am doing is taking the main amp stereo outs and running them though a simple voltage divider (no sub filtering etc) to feed an RCA socket 'sub out' socket. My initial reason for doing it this way was there was insufficient level from the main volume control, and the only other point past there is the main amp out's. I wanted the feed to be after the system's main volume control so that the sub's volume follows the main L&R stereo out levels.
My thoughts on this Is that if one is running bookshelf speakers then the speaker output / input suggestion to “sub” makes a lot of sense and should produce good results. By performing this suggestion the “sub” woofer is now acting as a “woofer” and subwoofer combo. What this is really saying though is that ideally the main speakers themselves should produce the “woofer” level. Floor standing speakers have this “woofer” section covered. Bookshelf speakers often use 1 6.5 or 5 or 4 in driver to produce mid bass and mids. We use a “sub” woofer to help fill in the bass. Too often sub maybe too big so there is deep bass and mids but no hard tight mid bass punch/kick. This is why I’m a fan of floor standing speakers that has a dedicated “woofer”. When paired with a “sub” woofer even better. I’m actually using the LFE sub outputs (have 2) from my pre-amp/ssp. So I’m technically running through two crossovers. I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. This can potentially reduce the 120hz hump some experience when combining woofer and subwoofers. I’m running amps to all speakers. 200x2 amp and 200x3 and 1 sub box with 2 12 in drivers one down-firing and the sub amp also has 200w. Bass is clean and tight and deep.
