Ray incorrectly wrote the slogan . If Ray went to college and had an 8:00 o'clock class, he would know that "Knowledge is Power, But Sleep is More Powerful than Knowledge". I think if that was written on his T-shirts, they would be hot sellers in every college. LOL.
Bought a car last year and we were approved by our bank for 2.49%. Finance Manager said the best he could do was 5%. Our bank was closed because they kept us after 10 pm. I was so irritated that when I got my first statement, I paid it off entirely. Glad to know that I hurt the Finance Manager by causing a chargeback. He deserved it.
Once back in the late 80’s I got the finance manager so pissed off with my relentless questions and refusal to accept their terms that I knew were blatant over charges to beef up their end that he shamed me by yelling on the show room floor what a pain in the ass I was, threw my car keys at me and told me to get the fuck out. This was at a Ford dealership in Tempe, Arizona. I complained about his behavior the next day to the General Manager and quess what? The General Manager marched over to the finance manager and confronted him with me standing next to him and the bastard could not deny it. The General Manager shamed him by telling him to box up his things and leave immediately right in front of me. I later got the van I wanted that day for the price that was at their cost. It pays to hold your ground and complain to the correct person.
Hater. That was a lawsuit when he threw your keys at you, if it made contact that is battery. You could have won with the right lawyer. Screaming at you is harassment too. He used derogatory words.
I tell them from the get go, that I’m not buying anything extra, just the vehicle. Also, NEVER let them run your credit, if you have your own financing. I’ve walked away when they insisted and said it was required by the Patriot Act or some other BS, it’s not!
Same happened to me. They insisted on doing their own credit check giving some BS about "five day either/or" in case my lender (USAA) didn't fund the already approved loan. Schmucks. I walked out the door.
@@laurad1953how was it getting pre approved from USAA? Was it for new or used? Just curious because I bank with them and I’m thinking of getting an auto loan with them soon
We bought a car 6 years ago. Husband has excellent credit and they advertised 0% interest for 60 months. Finance offered us 3.99% and when I questioned their advertised amount of 0% then he "looked farther" and found 1.99%. We took that, yet I knew they weren't being honest. I've learned so much from y'all. I won't concentrate on only one vehicle, so when/if the deal doesn't go as I plan, I won't be afraid to walk away.
Very often the manufacturer will offer 0.0% OR a rebate. Sometimes one is better and sometimes the other is better. Ask to see it both ways and you decide which is better for you.
I wish there were a database of car purchases for the year that would include the final out the door cost of everyone's car purchased. Then we might be able to go into a dealership, ask for a fair price, and leave if our informed expectation isn't met. Dealerships won't change their business models until it is no longer profitable. As consumers we can probably make that happen, we just have to be organized and refuse to take bad deals.
Walk into the finance office. "Total price $32,600, here is my bank draft for $32,600. Let's get the deal finished, as you can see, no money for anything you want to sell!" Works for me every time!
This is the part I don’t understand. If I submit my information to the dealer in good faith to secure financing. And the bank approves me at one rate and the dealer raises that rate for the purpose of his own financial gain without disclosing it to me how is that not fraudulent.
I had never considered this being a thing because yeah, it's sounds completely illegal. Trying to tell me a car is better or worth more than it is is shady but expected, telling me I got approved at a 5% when I really qualified for a 2% seems completely fraudulent. Glad this video was made. What an eye opener.
It's not illegal because you're allowed to make whatever agreement you want. If they offer you 8% and you agree, there's nothing illegal or immoral about that. If you make a deal with someone else for 4%, there's nothing illegal or immoral about that either. You have to take responsibility for agreements you make.
boy are you gonna be shocked when you find out the credit card rates and how much they are over base %. It is YOUR responsibility to know your best rate or try to negotiate it with the dealer if you think it is higher than it should be.
For me, question zero is "what is the 'out the door' price?" Then I pull out my financial calculator and figure the payment. Having visited my Credit Union prior to shopping I already know my interest rate. I must be a terrible customer.
I do the same thing. I also take a book with me.. whenever they make me wait, I pretend to be busy or actually read. that way I remain alert and stick to my points. There is one more thing I do.. its usually the finance guy who tries to add on bs for 500 each etc. i keep saying no for all that and occationally praise their dealership and car to him. works great for me.
@@webguy943 Possibly why I hate going to the dealer service department. I breath a sight of relief when the warranty finally expires so that I am no longer required to use them.
@@webguy943 Depends on the dealership. One I worked at the techs and service department had nothing to do with the sales people. Techs and parts department hung out and sales people... Did weird pagan rituals for all we knew. Never had interaction with them. Sales didn't come back to service department, either.
Finance guy really didn't like me using my loan calculator. When it became obvious our numbers were quite different he finally got frustrated and tried to convince me I owed the extra $1200 for interest the loan would accrue until my first payment.
I actually called my bank and asked if they will charge me for paying my loan off early before getting pre-qualified. They said no, they do not charge their customers for that. I asked this before I even walked into a dealership.
I think the biggest takeaway here is to always shop for financing before going to the dealer. Now you know exactly what rate you are approved for and its up to the finance person to match or beat it rather than try to scalp you.
Good information. I am fortunate to serve on the board of directors of a local credit union. Our director makes sure that we are educated on all aspects of lending, particularly auto loans. I did not know this stuff before my time on the credit union board.
When I bought our new Rav4 last fall, the F&I guy set us in front of a big electronic console and showed us "The Menu." I knew it was coming and when he asked " which combination of features" I wanted, and I told him "none," he was stunned. He said, "well, I have a bit of flexibility on those numbers," and I told him "I'm frankly not interested in any of it." He brought in a closer to twist my arm a bit further (but not too severely) and I said "I'm just not interested in any of these at any price. " He finally folded up his electronic menu, had me sign the papers, and I got the sale closed for exactly our negotiated price, which included the factory rebate plus a nice dealer discount off MSRP. I was happy. More importantly, my *wife* was happy.
When I go into finance office it is very quick. From showroom I've already come up with the total out the door cost; so, when I go into finance office I write a cheque and sign papers.
Car dealerships hate me. When the salesperson says they have to go talk to someone, I say, "I'll go with you". If the meeting is about me, I want to be there. If they say no I can't go, I just leave.
This philosophy is dumb and counter-productive. Are you that insecure that you feel you must disrupt their SOP ??? For what reason, they will never have a confidential conversation about your deal with you sitting there so the best likelihood is the Sales manager will step in and you will probably get a worse deal, just to teach you a lesson, for being an a-hole. Learn how to negotiate and let them do whatever they want as you will be in control. What they do behind the scenes is 100% irrelevant.
@@rm-dc6tx - I wouldn’t use Stephen’s strategy, but there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m the customer. It’s never your place to teach me any lessons. It’s your place to serve me. Keeping as much of my money as possible - yes, even by trying to disrupt the games dealers play to try to take it - is not “being an a-hole.” It’s being a responsible consumer. My job is to get the exact vehicle I want, for the least amount of money possible, with the greatest number of options possible, under the most favorable terms (for me) possible with zero regard for the dealership or salesperson. Many, if not most of them are trying to screw me every way they can. In doing so, they’ve established the rules for the transaction and given me permission to play by those rules. Thanks to the internet in general and RU-vid in particular, going to a dealership is now like watching a magic show where you know the trick behind every illusion. It may not be as much fun, but the customer is much less likely to be fooled by the so-called magician. Dealerships that give customers exceptional deals and great customer service can make their money in legitimate financing profits, service departments and repeat business. Those that focus on short-term gain by screwing over every customer they can? They deserve to rot.
@@rm-dc6tx I can tell you from experience, sometimes the conversation has nothing to do with your question but made to look like it and they already have the answer before going to the managers. Some things are for show (doesn't matter the business).
In the comments of one of these types of RU-vid videos I heard of a family that walked out when the salesperson went to their manager and this sales person asked where you're going and they said they were going out to lunch while you talk to your sales manager. Well the salesperson stopped that game!
I purchased a SUV for my sister and got additional cash back for financing through the dealer ship and the fiance man said I can pay off after three months so I called wells Fargo and they said I can pay off before the end of the month so I did. Only paid three dollars interest...
I just bought a new Hyundai. The rate and payments were all negotiated by the sales manager (2.75 %) I qualified for 0% but would have lost the cash rebates . When I went to finance he pushed and pushed but I just declined everything extra in the packages. They were all very over priced and I didn't need them. For example they wanted $760 for a Service plan that included just oil changes and tire rotations for six years. Problem is Hyundai already covers three years for those services. So he was trying to scam me to pay $253 a year for services which would cost me about $120 at current rates pay as I go. I left that dealer with my nice low original payment.
The finance dude is there to recoup any discounts sales gave you. When presented with warranty options, say no several times. You’ll find they will lower the price a couple times buy asking are you Cosco or Sam’s club members. Doesn’t matter if you are or not, it’s just a way of them discounting prices without looking like they are and your getting a deal.
You also definitely, really, really, want to know is what type of loan is it. Is it simple interest (unlikely but possible, better for customer) or rule of 78s (better for the lender, and, of course the dealer). You guys should really discuss this. Rule of 78s is front end loaded on the interest so if you pay off early you don't save nearly as much and their hand is deeper into your pocket.
But then precomputed interest would be as such that they don't have to care if you pay off the car early. The dealership already got their cut. Any customer of mine got a simple interest loan. The market is switching over. Maybe it's my area and the way the lenders operate here, IDK.
I hate when financial officer add cost protection to my finance when I told him no, until I found a month later , I have to call that sucker many times until i got straight out
I actually used the,”I’ll wait three months to pay out loan for the lower price. “ so I get a lower price and the dealer made his $$ on the loan”. Having said that next time I WILL be asking to see my approval from the lender. Thank you !!
F&I managers will often tell consumers with poor credit that the finance company will not approve the loan unless the take, ie-credit life and disability insurance. Just one example of F&I not being truthful.
In rare cases the dealership and lienholder may be trying to protect themselves because the customer could only get approved on a beater and they let other cars go to late payments or repo because of needed repairs. The warranty would protect the likelihood of still making the payment because any needed repairs would potentially be covered later. If it's EFG or JMA warranty it'll actually cover things, for instance. But if the lienholder doesn't approve a warranty being added to the financing there's no reason for finance to sell it. The loan won't get paid out by the lienholder.
This happened to me this past weekend. The Dealership tried to hide my approval rate. I have a good credit score and I knew what my rate should have been around 3%. I did some back calculations and they marked it up to 8.5% and I gladly walked out of the dealership and did not purchase the vehicle.
Yea if you were doing dealer-arranged financing u should have negotiated your rate BEFORE you went in the F&I office to sign. And I mean negotiated with them via EMAIL and/or TEXT. The only things you want to do when you go in to the dealership is to test drive/examine YOUR vehicle (the exact one you're buying) AND to sign the paperwork. All the talking, negotiating, credit check, decision making can be done without you physically there in the dealership. Remember that, especially nowadays with Covid you wanna limit your exposure (and yes tell them that!).
@@bindingcurve because I wanted to see they would bet the rate. I had a 3% interest rate in my back pocket from my credit union bank but after they did that I didn't want to do business with that dealership. I was going through the motions like yaa said to do. I didn't think it waste of time I learned alot from that encounter
@@paulden3158 I agree with you and I attempted to negotiate the price would not move on the price so I went to show them that I was serious about purchasing the price. Actually, they didn't nmove on the price until I left and then called my phone and drop the price 1300. I was done after that. I wasn't worried about the interest rate because I had an approval rate of 3% from my bank in my back pocket so I was trying to see if they could beat and could get the price even lower having them think that could make some money on the back end and drop the price then hit them with my bank paperwork.
@@Jrrucker1 They dropped the price and you had financing so you did not buy the car out of spite? Lesson you need to learn is not to let a dealership piss you off. Walking out should be a negotiating tactic, not a emotional response.
You guys, I have to thank you for letting us share in the pleasure you seem to be having working together, and for sharing such valuable information and insight on such an entertaining way.
Always shop your financing with your bank before going to a dealer! Know the amount you can finance and at what rate. Never buy based on payment, buy based on cost and the rate and term will give you the payment!
Dont walk into a dealership without first doing ur homework. Know ur credit scores. Go to a credit union to check interest rates. When the salesperson asks what you want ur monthly payment to be, say “ZERO!’ I want the out the door price and interest rate, then I’ll see if the payment works for me. Not there to negotiate monthly payments, just the price of the car.
Exception to the lie - I bought from a Nissan dealer. Two weeks later I got a letter from them with the loan number. I went to the web site and got the payoff value. I paid off the remaining $13,000 of the loan and paid $23.xx in interest. I'm now broke, but not paying rent on someone else's money!
Here's an honest mistake that I received from someone who sold me a car by owner. Her car recently had tires put on with a tire package that she said I would have when I purchased a car. I end up having an issue with one of the tires on the car down the road and that particular package told me that it didn't apply to me because I was the new owner. I do not believe it all the previous owner was aware of that or tried it to be deceitful in any way.
My comment does not really relate to this video, but the sum of all of your videos. It is very helpful advice. I just bought a car, and used the negotiations techniques that you described. With some steadfastness, I was able to get the deal that I wanted. Thanks for the helpful advice and the role playing, it helped.
I work in the car business; I've been in it for over 35 years and in fact I train F&I Managers. I can tell you that there are banks who put prepayment penalties (Usually $100 or so) right into their finance agreements, if a loan is paid off too soon, say 90 days. What a Finance Manager should not say is that you CAN'T pay it off early. You can. But if you pay off a loan too early, there may well be a penalty. It's there because lenders aren't really interested in financing cars for 30 or 60 days.
#1 the monthly payment is no way to negotiate a vehicle purchase. #2 a person should not need a dealer sales or finance manager to tell them their creditworthiness. If anyone use these tactics the dealer will know that you have no idea what you are doing.
I hate car loans because there are so many moving parts. Do not negotiate on the length of the car loan. Dealers will agree to a lower monthly price, but then extend the car loan out much, much farther. In the end, you pay a far greater amount overall even though it looks like you got a bargain with a smaller monthly payment. I am lucky because now I can pay cash. But I had to save every penny and dime to get there.
I was able to refinance a new vehicle purchase within a week of purchase. I was able to get the $1000 rebate for financing at the dealership, but then refinanced at a local credit union the next day to get a lower interest rate. The loan went through within days.
The biggest lies F&I says is: "Everyone buys this, your car will be worth more! (whatever has most $ for the F&I person) Also, "This price rock bottom if you sign up now! You come back later, will be higher, since it is not included in the deal!" "I am so sorry! I had 2.9%, but it is actually 3.9%" "I was in such a hurry to get your deal done, I misread! My apologies!" "It is only (guessing here) $1.75 per month. "I can redo for 2.9%, but will take around 10 min...."
When I bought my last car, I got $500.00 off the cost of the car if I financed it. I was also told the big lie and had to make at least 3 payments, or I would be charged a penalty. When I got my "payment book" I paid in the first payment the total loan except for $2.00. For the next two payments I paid $1.00 plus 4 cents in interest. I was never charged a penalty.
They like to ask, what kind of payment would you like, to which I say, $1.87 or less. After a chuckle they say, “no really,” so I say, if we’re talking payments, that’s my target. Not much laughing after that, but we move on to out the door prices. In reality though, after hours of haggling and numbers games, if they let you leave with a vehicle, they made all the money they needed to.
Just bought a new Tesla last week and the entire (No haggle) process was such an enjoyable experience. do you think they’ll ever come a point where traditional dealerships adopt this model?
Some have and got rid of it because people still tried to haggle. Some used lots are like that but do your homework and thoroughly check the vehicle. Be surprised the shit you miss when a normal pass through like it's new.
Just went through this, hardly any dealer wants to disclose the" OTD" price, what excuses. One dealer did and I bought because the car was loaded and the right color and interior combo.
If you were planning on paying off the loan in 30-90 days, why would you go through all the trouble of financing the car through the dealership or the bank? Just get a cashiers check from your bank after you have negotiated the price of the car and go back to the dealership and present the check and get the car. Refuse ANY and all extra warranty stuff, these are MAJOR money makers for the dealerships. Also watch all those FEES they charge you and question each one and simply refuse any that are unreasonable. Another one are the so-called paint protection schemes. Another big money maker for the dealerships. Just wax your own car later on. If the dealership wants to sell the car bad enough, they will negotiate, otherwise just walk out. This is a major, major purchase, you are the customer, you are in control. CHEERS.
A little late to the video, But another big scam is the extended warranty. 10yr./100,000mi. Most new vehicles come with a factory 5yr./60,000mi. You would only be gaining another 5yr./40,000mi. of warranty.
Hello! I watch videos with the captions on- they are on the lower mostly left portion of the screen- your information pop ups are hidden by captions- and they go kinda quick before they are clearly visible- I wanted to let you know! Thank you so much for your videos!
Do they have to show you the approval rate, is it required of them? If they won't show you, should you walk? Because it appears they are not being transparent and honest! Ray/Zach, please do a show on Ray's big lie, I think that would be helpful too! If not Ray's, you can call it the sales managers "big lie". 😉
seems common sense to me. I always ask the price and not payment. top tip: tell them to build your package as per YOUR requirements and say you'll take the finance IF its at a good rate as you'll be shopping around. these days most credit cards do 0% on both transfers and purchases for 2 to 3 years. why would you even need dealer finance unless its a killer rate and you have negotiated the product price down to marginal. use the finance to negotiate the price down as much as possible and take it out. then clear with 0%credit cards
You should get your financing from your bank, or credit union...NOT the dealership[!!! They add so much, buy up rates, get incentives from lenders to do so. They are awful.
I got my numbers from my credit union and gave the finance team a chance to meet or beat the rate. I arrived at 2pm, to do this. The dealership dragged their feet, until after banking hours and said that my info was false, but they had a higher rate, just sign here. I walked out, waited for snail mail to deliver my credit Union info and returned several days later. Funny isn’t it?
Always negotiate actual price, NEVER THE MONTHLY PAYMENT. Buy the vehicle you need(not want)and always walk out on the deal when you are not comfortable. Buyers remorse is an awful feeling. Always do your homework too, shop on line first, have your financing lined up, buy what you can actually afford. New vehicles are wonderful, but always account for the costs before hand, 20/20 vision works better forward in this case rather than backward.
Sometimes just get the best finance they can give play dumb and make sure theres no penalty to oay orf early. Make them discount the car..then use their finance and refinance it later from ur own bank after u leave
Get preapproval from a bank or credit union before going to the dealer. You almost never want to get financing through a dealer. And never buy a service contract or extended warranty while at the dealer. It's not usually a good deal for the buyer, which is why they try so hard to sell you one. And if you do want one it will always be cheaper the next day or month. And you want to be sure you're happy with the vehicle before you purchase any extended service or warranty. If you trade it in 6 months, or the car is a lemon that money will be wasted.
I bought a 2009 F 150 new . The guy kept trying to sell me a policy to pay for unexpected expenses/ repairs . He said the computer was 1000.00 dollars alone I said well then I’ll buy one ( computer) if I need one still have the truck still runs great
Local Toyota adds a $1699 New Car Package and they say its a mandatory extended warranty of some sort. Its a we want a new car tax I take it but I’d rather they just raise the price on the car instead of adding stuff on that we’ve no interest in buying. Unfortunately my wife wants a new car for the 1st time in her life and she wants the hottest selling RAV4 Hybrid and either we pay that extra cost, buy preowned (of which they add a $499 preowned package lol) or go elsewhere. Called other Toyotas and they noted all dealerships have the flexibility to add addendums to sales & they themselves do something similar. This must speak to their hold on the market right now. They do this because they can.
You want a good tip I got a CPO clearly needed tires also bought extended service plan paint good money for it to so I took it back this needs tires talking back and forth they wouldn’t budge but hey I can went right into finance office cancelled esp I said if I’m fighting with you now for tires imagine if something does go wrong and can’t use the warranty so long story short I got my esp plan money back and bought brand new Michelin
Always kept the loan for min 6 months, to build up the credit score by showing steady on time payments. Didn't know about the charge back towards the dealership. Have to keep that tool for next time.
Being friends with a finance manager means I never had to deal with any of this. My last 4 new cars have been Fords just because if I went anywhere else, I had to deal with all of the 4 square, colored magic markers, F&I nonsense. Unfortunately, a new GM got hired and cleaned house, replacing all of the department manager with his own team from another dealership, so now I have no "in". I still have my sales guy there, but he says the new management is horrible and I should probably shop elsewhere. You know it's bad if he doesn't want my commission. BTW, I've been meaning to ask you guys, what's the deal with the blue, green and red magic markers? Every dealership here in Vegas uses them. Is there a psychological reason for it? Do people respond to them differently that normal pen?
Its should be illegal to advertise a low lease or purchase price and then NEVER have that available when you go in to buy. That special $189 a month is always $300+ a month.
@ 9 min.....When I bought my Subaru on 12/18/20 they paid off the loan on my Altima that 400 more than the best trade-in offer I could get them to agree to. I agreed to give them back some of the in F&I. As part of that, I asked the F&I Manager how long I would need to to keep their financing so they got their back end money and minimized any possible charge-back. She said 90 days. The note is through Capitol One at 3.46% APR. I really didn't have a problem with that, especially when I saw that used car finance rates had climbed back up in the last 90-120 days. Did I screw up?
Got a good deal when bought my 2018 truck as a holdover in early 2019, but I got caught in the wait 6 months to pay the balance lie. Can't wait to go there to buy another, and get my revenge. Thanks.
1:41 my base payment is gonna be what the cost of the vehicle is... one, and one final payment. why are people financing is beyond me. can't afford it is why... can't afford it
so if the finance manager refuses to show me the buy rate, i will tell him, ok no problem, let me sign all of the paperwork, and right before i leave i tell him, by the way i will be paying my entire loan as soon as i get my first statement, goodluck with your chargeback! LOL!!! That's what you get for now showing me your buy rate!
Walking away is always advisable. However I would make it clear up front that any questions you ask are related to your money and you have every right to know anything and everything about the money you're being charged. If they don't want to give you that information, you don't want to give them any money. Your job is to protect yourself, not their paycheck.
I don’t think the sales office would stand for a lost sale because of lack of transparency in the finance office? Would be nice to know what the lady would do if the question was not evaded. Why have her on?
I assure you that the dealer principal and GM and GSM ultimately want the car sold. F&I is the last salesperson you see at the dealership but they're still sales. If you walk out on them they will get blown out by upper management. As with salespeople on the sales floor, I would maybe not just stand up and leave without a word but rather lay out of your ground rules at the beginning. It's your money, you deserve and have a right to know everything about what and how you're being charged. If they wish not to give you that information you wish not to give them money. Be polite but firm to start, so you can get less polite after they ignore you but you don't get yourself worked up unnecessarily if they do what you say the first time.
If you act like you're buying the contract the F&I manager might become more pliable about marking down the interest rate, since their pay loan would mean that they're still going to get paid some way. Cancel the contract afterward and you've tricked them into marking down the interest without having to get into a pissing contest about it.
@@joemarchand8313 You misunderstand - in that case I'm talking about them buying the rate down a little bit in order to sell you F&I products. Again, you can just cancel the product. They can show you your real rate and still do this. The rate is workable anyway. Think of it like with customers whose religion does not allow them to pay interest. 0% loans don't exist on literally every car, but they can buy the rate down to 0% and add the interest to the price of the car. That way customers aren't getting a "faith discount" and it penalizes those who don't have that particular religious objection. It's just one of many ways loan transactions can be massaged.
I am in sales and probably guilty of not being 100% honest to some of my customers on occasion but car dealers are definitely the worst. If you're not going to be smart and ask any questions you might as well bring some KY jelly with you
If it's not important to you to know, then no don't walk away. If it is important, then yes leave. F&I tries to withhold that info because they know people already feel invested in the time at this point. Don't think like that. The sales floor and finance office are bifurcated processes and you can walk at any time. And definitely the sales manager will run after you if they realize you're walking (so be deliberate but don't make a mad dash for your car - do the slow power walk, maybe two levels below Conor McGregor).
All of these videos show just how complicated buying a new car is. I appreciate you're trying to educate the public but the reality is that I just want a car and not learn how to deal with all this garbage. When the day comes that I can go somewhere, get an acceptable price and be done, that is the day I will stop putting money into my old one and buy new. I remember how much fun it used to be to get a new car but it hasn't been for years. Dreading this constant grab at my wallet keeps me away and has caused me to walk out of dealerships in the past. Too bad greed has ruined this industry.
