The Boeing 747 Crash that CHANGED Aviation Forever (With Real Audio) 

Right??? "Man, I'm in the middle of nowhere, my altimeter reads 35,000 feet, this GPWS is telling me to pull up?", you pull up

Zakly

Under these conditions, pilots face high workload and experience tunnel vision, hindering their ability to hear warnings. It's easy for us, watching a reconstructed documentary, to criticize their actions. In reality, pilots are multitasking and dealing with a chain reaction of events, causing their brains to zone off after a certain point. Many crashes are not caused by a single factor.

@@Incidental104 Not a good excuse. If pilots are dealing with these issues ,they should not be pilots.

​@@Incidental104 To the point of not hearing WHOOP!! WHOOP!! PULL UP!! ? 🤔

how is it underrated if it became an example and manual case?...

@@andreirau Most people never heard of it, they are unpopular among the public. Even people that lives in the place where it crashed (Malaysia) never heard of it, let alone aviageeks nowadays. Pilots and ATC may have heard of it since it is used in training video and etc. They are useful.

@@Sleetstream that’s because 4 people died in the crash. No passengers.

@@Sleetstream I think you should have chosen a better word other than "underrated".

@@danielnovitadubin8272 I think it’s appropriate

I'm 100% with you. Nobody has ever cleared me to 400 feet, it just doesn't happen even in my tiny aircraft let alone a heavy and they surely would have known it.

@@markwallis7199 The Captain had landed at this airport so many times you would think he would immediately realise 400 was incorrect.

I find it mind bending that they never confirmed it from the ATC and just rolled with it. Even to me, who knows nothing about aviation, 400ft at that point sounds insane. Instead, they were talking nonsense in circles like a bunch of school kids doing a project.

That's what I'm sayin . . . . especially the fact he did not understand the guy on the tower from the get go. "What did he say"

2 7 0 0 was fine why was 2 4 0 0 not?

They reported their altitude each time, maybe the ATC didn't have in on the radar. From what I know in the 80s they used strips of paper to write down the altitude reported by the pilots along with the call sign and set those pieces in a column forming the arrival/departure queue

@@hannamiros Was the controller using radar? If so why were the Tiger crew asked for their position?

What sane pilot would expect a drop to 400ft from the altitude they were currently at? In a 747? Logic alone should have made the pilot reaffirm with ATC.. ATC did nothing wrong. Two Four Zero Zero.

​@@virginiaviola5097 it was ATC fault. He said ' decent two........ Four zero zero . Who would use numbers like that when it costs your life.

@@virginiaviola5097 Right. If someone told you to drink sewage, would you just do so without question? 400 feet is way too low. Even a non-pilot would think this made no sense.

because in these kind of jobs 99.99% of people do not think. they rely on instructions to be accurate and execute them. sometimes, the 0.01% is split into the 0.0005% who disobey causing havoc and the 0.005% who save an unsavable situation.

Because this crew failed by leaving their brains at home.

I was wondering the same thing...

Exactly! Even if the runway was on the beach, 400 ASL is too low to be cruising around looking for a runway in zero vis. Now put the runway inland, add in some low hills, towers, buildings, and tall trees, and you're dragging your landing gear across terrain, rooftops and knocking birds off of branches, and that's supposed to be believable instructions coming from ATC?

Not even a glider pilot would think 400 feet is a long final altitude!! Short final with a small plane but long final with a 747?? They were totally out of their minds.

It seems like their experience was definitely working against them. If I were in the aircraft, I would’ve called ATC to double check the NDB and altitude. Especially since the Tower has an accent that is difficult to understand. I probably would have done the ILS approach to begin with. And the argument in the cockpit probably caused more confusion. I don’t understand what he means by “ No one has ever left this plane “

@@alanhinkel420 “ No one has "EVER" left this plane “? I don't get that either.

@@yorkshirebikerbitsnbobs They died in it... Whats so hard to understand.

@@Viking88Power People previously have obviously"left this aircraft" The title is incorrect and poor in my opinion. Unlike the video which was quality content.

This one has enough contributing factors for TWO accidents. I'm glad we are at least learning from it though.

"There are certain VERY narrow circumstances where it is okay to ignore the GPWS" Yes. As you say, it _might_ be OK if you know _exactly_ your situation, know what you are doing and know _why_ it is OK to disregard GPWS.

This happened 35 years ago, some have pointed out that gpws were prone to false alarms. That 400 ft along with the alarm should have been a huge red flag.

@@mark5862 - Even if it was a false alarm you still need to check it out to be sure. I couldn't believe they completely ignored it IN THE FOG. 🙄

@@bazoo513 I'm hardly an expert on commercial aviation but I've read of several cases (and see them pop up in documentaries) of emergency landings where the pilot could clearly see the runway, but was dealing with degraded controls for one reason or another, so the GPWS activated during landing. I wouldn't be at all surprised if some emergency procedures *specifically* said to ignore the GPWS, but that's about the only circumstances I'd be doing it.

@@ArchTeryx00 Precisely. If you know _exacly_ why you are ignoring the GPWS advice, go ahead and do what you have to do. But if it activates out of the blue, when you are low over unfamiliar terrain, you should better do as it says.

It sounds like he recreated the audio to make it easier to hear or did it from a transcript. It sounds unnaturally clear.

Yeah, definitely recreated.

@@GlutenEruption Or else the First Officer just happened to sound like a bad actor... every time he opened his mouth. I actually laughed at him.

They say "Real Audio" in the title. But the radio communication is completely fake audio. The radio calls don't contain any call signs or standard radio protocol. Maybe the cockpit voice recording could be real, but this sounds recreated too.

@@Mash4096 wait dude. That was the issue. The ATC wasn’t using any standard call signs. That’s as one of the problems.

Along with the FO being angry either with the Captain or ATC or both

v

mm

Crew seemed tired to me. Some irritation. Coarse words. Unawareness. Petty bickering . Symptoms of lack of sufficient sleep.

@@ernestkovach3305 They sound like some fellas playing dominos in bar and they are ready to call it and go home.

Thanks a lot man, I really appreciate your support! ❤

​@@theflightchannel🎉

@@theflightchannel I’ve watched your channel for at least a year and it’s been amazing from the beginning. You really are graceful and proper towards even the monsters who do things like this on purpose (terrorists, when ATC makes mistakes, etc). You do so much research and it’s helped me realize my passion has always been in aviation. I’m currently working towards my Master’s in Astrophysics with a certificate in Spaceflight Aviation. I have loved the sky and flight sciences, aerodynamics, the science behind how airplanes work, so on, and when I stumbled upon your channel over a year ago (at least 1+ yr ago, if not longer), I got to see the inside stories from major aviation incidents I’ve learned of when growing up, in addition to learning all of the things that I think are amazing about flight dynamics in a concise, yet efficient and effective, way to learn about these incidents. You deserve so much credit for the work and time put into each video. I don’t think ppl realize the amt of work goes into each video, from the graphics to the accuracy of the facts. I watched several back-to-back the other day and it was unreal: you actually had people leaving the bus that took them to their flight and you see each person exit the bus and walk aboard the plane….every single person had different clothes, hair, briefcases, suitcases, carry-ons, everything. It blew my mind!! Thank you for what you do! There are many of us who appreciate you for what you do (more than you probably know)!

@@theflightchannel All we all truly appreciate you

I’ve watched this channel for over a year and the quality has always been amazing and has only improved. These videos are educational and have informational and archival content. So excellent. 👍🏻

You too 😂 That has to be the most alarming sound to any pilot... except on this flight 🤦‍♀️

@@RindaJane - when you watch more of these - you'll see that the alarm is often ignored - there must be many false alarms so that pilots get used to ignoring them - new designs are needed to reduce false positives - then pilots will react to the alarms properly

@@johneyon5257 I've seen many of these crashes. If pilots are ignoring the warnings I agree. Needs a definite Change !

A GPWS can sound on many approaches. I was avionics crew chief in military and I heard them many times and it wasn't an emergency. Not saying they shouldn't; have listened, clearly they should have, but it is not always an emergency.

@@danielrn133 great way to lose trust in a safety feature.

"Jennys to jets to space"

" .. been a part of."

Orville Wright got to ride in a B-52.

I think it was 64 years between the first airplane flight and the first step on the moon

@@M_SC Yes JUST 64 years! Less than a modern lifetime!

I wondered if there was a reason the FO was flying rather than the Pilot. The pilot seemed cavalier about a number of things. A sort of "Don't worry about it, it'll be fiiiinne." Attitude.

@@cindyknudson2715 It's standard op procedure to mix the flight component tasks around, so the FO flying, rather than the pilot, is not unusual. Cavalier - indeed, 400 feet is essentially skimming the dirt, & they're doing that in a Jumbo!

Reminds me of when Michael Scott drove into a lake because GPS told him to. “400? Sure, if you say so.” 🤷‍♂️

If I was in a Cessna and cleared to 400 feet I'd have questions.

@@cindyknudson2715 Unfortunately altitude doesn't care about your attitude!

Brionyx - I doubt it woulda bothered Capt at all....remember he ignored shtload of Whoop-ti-dos telling him to pull up, but still did nothing!!!

Not that he is watching that!

Yep. His legacy is forever tarnished...

I have to say you have an excellent point even being dead i'd be embarrassed

Imagine surviving and that happening!

my new PS4 console still has not been delivered, or refunded. sorry, im a bit drunk, looking for the ILS for home.

Yeah, they had it coming, didn't they!

Sheep 👀

What you refer to as Falklands are the Malvinas Islands in Argentinian territorial waters. It is as if Argentina claimed the isle of Wight belonged to Argentina.

@@jorgesuarez7073 Other than a brief period where Argentina mined the crap out of them, your country has never possessed the Falkland Islands. In fact, Argentina didn't technically exist until well after the initial settlements. Thus, if anyone has cause to complain, it would be the French, who built a settlement there first. As it is, the people who have lived there for a century are British and wish to remain British. So, they are the Falklands - though you are certainly welcome to your opinion.

The FO was too busy being annoyed with ATC

The MDA is the minimums for a non precision approach. The 2400’ was the Final Approach Fix minimum altitude which they were cleared to by ATC. After they passed the FAF they would then descend to the published MDA.

Always towers fault. They never told them they decent was too low on radar etc

@@MrAcer4 Bull Sh**! Pilots fly airplanes, not ATC. They were far too low for the whole descent until impact. You can can include the substandard of how American pilots manage their descents. Since ATC kept asking their distance and radial from VBA they clearly were not under radar control. It’s sad when people die because they were not doing their job.

It sounds like my father as the captain and me as co-pilot. He's never wrong and will argue to no end trying to prove so.

They train this now. You've probably heard of it a lot already, but it's called Crew Resource Management.

Thats exactly the vibe they gave off.

Somebody has a native speaker proofing his stuff now and it has really made a difference. These vids are better than ever. Quality job.

If something does not feel right, that indicates that questions need to be asked and answered. Even to me guidance to 400' does not make sense.

From the time the landing lights painted the top of that ridge until impact was milliseconds. Even if they were looking out of the airplane, nothing could be done. Their fate was sealed long before that. There are lots of links on this one and enough blame to go around.

I'm not a pilot and my only knowledge is from RU-vid, but I do know TWO things. When you stall, you push the damn stick forward and when you hear "PULL UP," you pull the stick backward. And yet, I still see pilots crashing by doing the opposite. It's actually kind of amazing... and sad.

Does anyone remember where the township was or its name?

@@SluteramousSkankboard You mean the crash site of the aircraft ??? If you mean that, then it is Puchong.

That's the key. Captain thought they were cleared TO 400, not 2400. The correct number is TWO THOUSAND FOUR HUNDRED.

And surely he’d be familiar with everything being labelled KL/kayell etc, so he’d ask for specifics? Pilot sounded grumpy so maybe he hadn’t had his coffee yet 🙄

​@@dalereed3950 correct icao (this is intl) is 2-4-0-0. You read out the individual digits. You just have to use some common sense.

@@dalereed3950 Yes, but the OP is saying that if the captain was so familiar with the approaches at that airport, then he should've known that having his 747 told to descend to 400 ft was very, very wrong.

Thanks for sharing. It's tragic but also good to know such crashes are studied by pilots

what i don't get is that the F/O was obviously bothered about not having the plate - why wouldn't he have it - or obtained it at that moment - would it have been too late

@@johneyon5257 good question. I've shot some approaches hundreds of times, but never once without the current plate in front of me. There are good captains and not so good ones. I was very fortunate to have some outstanding ones to train and guide me.

@@mikedeal3466 Are there any other incidents that are taught in great detail about what not to do? Anything TFC has covered? I'd be interested to know what crashes were so catastrophic, they use them as teaching cases now.

​@lunabuna I don't think it is as much of catastrophic as it is avoidable. The main conclusions drawn from crashes are what to improve, it doesn't even need to be a catastrophe. Like the first plane to lose both engines in flight, a TACA Boeing 737, where no one was injured and the plane flew off to an airport after an engine change. They didn't even have a checklist for that cause it was considered impossible. Now there are such checklists. But I'm curious which accidents are used in official training as well

Extreme fatigue can do a lot and while I'm no pilot I think that a clearance to 400 ft is something you will never get from ATC. Simply because that's the last part of the landing and the communication is not something you have during that fase with ATC. So it's beyond me someone actually dials the AP to 400 ft that action alone should, tired or not, have to make all three think this can't be right. Even without a map in front of you, 400ft wouldn't even be enough to fly over The Netherlands where I live. Well, mainly because of the wind turbines which weren't there in the 80s but still. Three people and not one wake enough to either question the 400ft or take some notice of pretty clear warning signals. That's indeed a special breed of pilots but not the best pilots of their time.

Yes fatigue, but you always follow protocol and charts! No matter how exhausted. I get it, but this was awful!

You intended a pun about this trip being their last? wow, what an asshole

Pieces....Not Peace.

@@Heart2HeartBooks grow up

Thanks for the local perspective. Oftentimes we see these crash videos happen in lands far, far away. People who are affected by them every day like you, bring us back to how everyone in the local area is still affected.

The town should be called "Bandar Pull Up" in recognition of the humble avionics computer heroic attempts to warn the imbeciles

You live in Singapore?

He never flew again.

please understand..they didnt have Uber back then

Because the ATC is just as crap and contributed to this accident, its Malaysia after all with a reputation of demonstrated negligence and poor training

@@nomadpiloting This video, from which the recording came from, shows that the pilots didn't actually read back the instructions to the ATC. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AWcfcEHkUEo.html The clue is in the background noise - whenever the pilots talked to ATC the background noise would be muted, however when the captain read back 400 in this case the background noise remained which meant that he was saying it only for the crew onboard.

Its not a plate lmfao. It’s a chart that’s called the approach plate.

@@TrapKingz. It's called a plate in the cockpit.

Exactly! And it's pitch black outside so not as if the pilots can see if the GPWS is sending out an erroneous message.

maybe they thought it was a false burglar alarm

this is a indicator, that they where at maximum stress level... so the brain allows no more input....only a good training can help to react in such situations

That's scary and alarming 😢😢😢😢😮😮😮😮😮🥹🥹🥹🥹

7 year old kids: THEY COPUED JAL123!1!

if the pilots did pull up - they would never make it to this channel - which is a happy thing

Veteran pilots could become desensitized to the warnings due to false positives and it going off during safe runway approaches. So hearing that to this captain was basically just another day of business as usual and nothing to be alarmed over. (There were also more frequent false positives back then when equipment was less reliable).

MOrons dead

​​​@@enzy6434 But when you know that alot of false positives exist, than why aren't you taking a look on the MDA?? My god they are so lazy about this its crazy

I'm in the Air Force now, on a multicrew aircraft, and we reference this crash during our yearly CRM refresher.

I am not a pilot so I have to ask, why would you do a NDB if you didn't need to? They had runways with ILS available. Was it just stubbornness or is there some kind of policy behind it?

@@Link2edition That would depend on the weather, specifically the winds. If the winds, tailwinds, were out of limits, then they would have to come in on the NDB. I would have checked and definitely would have requested the ILS if it was legal. The time I flew an NDB to minimums was in Portland. The weather was 600 foot ceilings and we were landing to the west because the winds had swung around. We did request the ILS but were told that the ILS antenna was malfunctioning and that the only available approach was the NDB. Luckily, the wind was right down the runway.

When in flight school we RARELY practiced NDB approaches. Just fly what you are most familiar with like an ILS!!

@@Edgy01 What if the NDB is the only available approach?

He could've at least hauled out the damn approach plate...

@@RatPfink66 I agree. I'm just literally still in shock after listening to this crew and all the extreme chances they took all the up to their death. It's actually very, very sad. My heart goes out to them no matter what. The F/o to his credit had the captain in his ear the whole time saying that the f/o was wrong and just paranoid. 🙄. Poor fellow new in his heart something wasn't wrong. But the crew literally just dismissed everything he said. He needed to scream at them both saying "give me the plate RIGHT FUCKING NOW OR IM GOING AROUND". And if I was the first officer I wouldn't have taken no for an answer.

Teneriefe even more crazy, since visibility was terrible and jackass pilot was in a hurry. Bad combo.

@@JESCO58 Well Said !

One of my first thoughts, too.

@@sarahalbers5555 Same, I thought there was an age limit for commercial flight, but this may have been before that?

@@sarahalbers5555 He was only two days away from retirement, poor fellow!

So, give me experience EVERY time

😂 70 ! I was thinking, I still have a chance to make it

I'm a retired B-777 pilot, and I agree.

@@dc10driver1 When some non-pilot moron, like me, can tell that 400 feet is WAY too low, you gotta wonder... exactly how STUPID were these guys. Could that possibly be why they were flying cargo aircraft and NOT passenger planes? Just not good enough to be trusted with OTHER people's lives?

Fr, how could you think 400 ft is normal approach??

I thought the same thing. 400 feet is ludicrous. And listening to the "whoop whoop, PULL UP!" as everyone simply and nonchalantly carried on totally unrelated conversation had me yelling "CAN YOU NOT HEAR THAT!?" Pull up, for God sakes, and figure out the reasons why later.

I'd have to say it's very likely that at least the captain was drunk, considering he was "very familiar" with the approaches at this specific airport, but thought absolutely nothing of having his 747 told to descend to 400 ft. 🙄

Ikr you would think they would take note I'm guessing what happened is that they developed tunnel vision which can even happen to motorists. where they become fixated on one particular task e.g. finding their exit, that all other priorities go out the window like checking before switching lanes etc Or they are so late they want to reach the destination on time that they fail to notice the fuel empty sign light up and end up breaking down on the highway. These guys got distracted to the point the pull up ! warning probably was more of an annoyance in the background than something to be concerned about At least that's my theory.

Wasn't their voices, those were obviously actors reading the lines from the transcript (and doing a poor job of it).

@@reshpeck read the title of the video, then revisit your comment.

@@reshpeck I thought the same thing.

@@restojon1 Just because it says "real audio" doesn't mean it's the actual cockpit audio. The audio is too clearly recorded, especially for the time period. There's also too many unnatural pauses and breaks in the speaking cadences. It doesn't flow like normal conversation at all. When they interrupt each other, there's a distinct pause where one man's voice ends and another starts a beat later, instead of an actual interruption. These guys were in their mid-50's and the engineer was in his 70's. These voices sound like men in their 30's. Actors reading a transcript.

Just because it says "Real Audio" doesn't mean all the audio is "real". The voices supposedly off the CDR definitely sound recorded later. Probably most the controllers' voices are real.

Dulu Subang airport (SZB) Memang kapal banyak approach dari Puchong (South). Sekarang dah berubah, approach dari Rawang (Utara).

@@HaziqCTID Ya sbb masa tu approach pathway dari south tak banyak bangunan tinggi2 & kurang padat mcm sekarang so aircraft masih boleh land runway 33. Tapi sekarang area Puchong, Shah Alam & Subang Jaya dah sangat padat, bangunan tinggi2 & banyak residential area so 98% landing kat SZB memang dari runway 15 je. Baki 2% biasanya aircraft yg lebih kecil mcm Firefly & Batik Air (Malindo) jenis ATR72 yg kena land runway 33 jugak utk elak tailwind kalu land runway 15.

You are not a kid. You are a BOY. Do not be afraid of saying it like it is.

@@fredblahblah.6352 What the hell is this comment?

@@Alexander_Grant About your sexism.

There is no other side. Sorry.

You hit the nail on the head.

They didn't ignore it. They didn't hear it. Whenever someone is overloaded, the first thing to go is their hearing. It's a human physiological thing that affects practically everyone. You can hear it because you're in the comfort of your home without any stress. You wouldn't hear the pull-up call on your computer either if all of a sudden you were presented with a stressful event like someone unexpectedly breaching your front door with a shotgun wearing a Michael Myers mask. Your hearing goes to shit when you're overloaded. It's not in your control. The pilots made the mistake of allowing themselves to get overloaded in the first place. Never allow yourself to be pushed into something that you're not ready for.

*​@OneTequilaTwoTequila* they went silent when the gpws played tho.

I had planned to jumpsuit on that flight to see a woman I met in Paris. Luckily, my sister's wedding prompted me to cancel my plans.

"Fight" to London? You'll be flying with Jet2 then?

I hope you have a good & safe flight.

aprecheat?🤔

Who'd a thunk?

Green Dot Aviation is even better!

... to the 4 MEN whose lives were lost. Afraid of saying it like it is? Have you been told not to use that word and are sheepish enough to comply?

@@fredblahblah.6352 Ha. I'm about the least sheep you will come across. The noun and pronouns is such bs. I do not follow the Woke Crowd/or The Leftists Ohh I comply with my beliefs No One else. You have a wonderful evening sir. This woman is calling it a night. Bye 👋

It could just be that there's no details about it.

"There are bold pilots and old pilots, but there are no old bold pilots". Another reason to stick with main line carriers if possible when flying.

Green Dot Aviation is head and shoulders above this channel!!!

@@fredblahblah.6352 Well yes, Green Dot also inspired my camera styles

FE?

@@K1OIK i assume its Flight Engineer, the third person on the jumbo jet cockpit

@@K1OIK flight engineer

@@zuflis I wonder what he did with the time he saved not typing light ngineer?

@@bsdrvr1 what did you with the time you saved not typing ight ngineer?

There were at least 2 dozen, I repeat, TWENTY-FOUR buildings in Kuala Lumpur by 1989 that were over 350 feet tall. How dumb do you have to be to know that 400 feet is too low for a long final? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that nobody in that cockpit was good enough to fly actual PASSENGERS in a plane and that's why they were flying a cargo plane. A couple hundred people probably got incredibly lucky.

CVR?

@@K1OIK Cockpit Voice Recorder

@@las2665 The irony here is this crash happened in part due to the overuse of abbreviations. What did he do with the time he saved not typing ockpit oice ecorder?

It doesn't sound like original audio, sounds like they're reading from a script. The cut-off sentences, inflections, etc. Plus the audio quality from 1989(!) tells me this was an audio re-enactment.

​@@robhorsey9906 You are exactly right

You'd think they'd at least do so when they know they haven't seen a runway at any point and can't see outside at all. Of all the errors to assume, how about the one that will kill you if you ignore warnings. "Pull up" with no visibility should be an automatic reflex.

full power and hard climb, immediately.

​@@RobertLinthicumfull power, 20 degrees nose up, no configuration changes

I personally find Green Dot Aviation far superior in every possible level.

Exactly

Right. I was thinking they should have at least confirmed it was 400ft by repeating it to ATC. It was quite a big drop and should have raised a few eyebrows.

they weren't digitale removed, the scene was rendered with different weather and time settings

@@PySnek “digitally removed” was just faster to say, but yes, of course.

Yeah, I still dont get why we dont use sophisticated technology, AI and modern visualisation

@@romansenger2322, because it was 1989.

Back in those days the WHOOP WHOOP came on a lot. I had one go off at 35000 ft in clear skies. Do you think I climbed higher? Remember this was 1989. Training was a lot different then. So was the technology.

Yes and learn your lessons well. Your life and the lives of others depend on it.