Great video, thx. Two things I would highly recommend is to make sure you're using a steel cassette not an aluminum one, and an ebike specific chain. I stripped my aluminum cassette with less than 100 miles on it, and snapped my chain. I replaced them with the microSHIFT ADVENT X Cassette 10 speed, 11-48 tooth (steel version) and used the microSHIFT ADVENT X Rear Derailleur which works perfectly with the cassette. I also had to replace the shifter to the microSHIFT ADVENT X Trail Trigger Pro Right Shifter. I'm also using an ebike specific chain KMC 10 speed e10, designed to handle the torque. I'm using a Lekkie 42 T ring and love the whole combo. I pull a big heavy camping trailer plus loaded panniers, and I'm not a light weight either. All installed on a Surly Troll. Love it!
Did that. Box Four Group set with Lekkie 52T on a 20" folder with a BBS 02B 48 V 17.5 Ah Bat. Awesome climbing capability even on a 19% gradient with pedal assist with almost no effort. Slow climb like a sloth but you get there eventually without any sweat at all. Thanks, Johnny for your awesome videos and knowledge. Stay safe on your test rides build. Peace.
I converted my 27 gear bike to electric and switched my casette from 12-25 to 11-28. It is pretty much ideal for me with 44 teeth front and 500W motor. I can tow my kid up the hills and not even need the lowest gear. With the lowest gear I can climb quite easily using only 50% power from the motor.
Wheel size also makes a difference in gearing. I have a folder e-bike with 20” wheels. I changed to a 52t front chain ring. I’m almost always in my 11t cog and I’m spinning out at 21mph. I can go faster but then the motor is doing all the work. If the wheel size were larger I’d spin out at a higher speed. Ideally on the Folder bike I’d like a 56 tooth chain ring. I’d be able to use the full cog set more efficiently.
@@JohnnyNerdOut How does making it a priority system make it the cheapest and ultimate, Bafang Mid Drive???? Thanks for the Sponsored post, but a direct comparison chart would have made it much clearer.... If there was any advantages to it whatsoever.... Much less the cheapest or ultimate performance boost
I have a MTB with 29" wheels. By quick pressing the on/off 3 times you get into the menue. And here I set the wheel to 20" instead of 29". By doing this I get the same power assist at level 4-5 as I would get at level 9 with 29" whell programming. But I Am from Denmark. So maybe they (Aliexpress) only send restricted model to the EU ?..One downside is that you dont get the right speed shown. But 14 mph at level 6 would be ( 14 x 29 ) : 20 = 20,3 mph. Or 32,5 kmh in reality.
I use a Lekkie 52T chainring with a 9spd 11-42T cassette. I found that you are limited by the chain wrap capacity of your derailleur. In my case I required a 48T chain wrap capacity just to run the 11-42T with the 52T chainring. The Microshift Advent 9-spd long cage derailleur has the highest chain wrap capacity available on the market (47T), and I use 2 13T oversized cage pulleys to increase this to 48T. Although I am right at the upper limit of my drivetrain design, it works well with my 2500w BBSHD middrive.
Interesting. I upgrade my Tern Link with Lekkie 52T and paired it with Box Four 8S 12-42 groupset, to make sure the chain does not stretch prematurely, used a Box 2 chain eBike grade. Works like a dream.
@jon dough 32T is likely not going to provide an optimal chainline when used with an 11-42T. There is a good reason why the flywheel on a ICS engine is extremely large, it's what is known as a "torque multiplier". Even a stock 1000w BBSHD will shred a cassette quite easily if you do not use a properly installed gear shift sensor.
@@michealbackus4543 wtf you talk you dont need gear shift sensor just release throtle and shift like a motorcycle.look at my videos.i have shimano deore xt 9 speed cassete over 7000km and its still good throtle only riding.microshift 9 speed with clutch ftw
My setup for the bbs02 750w is 46t front with a 8 speed hg-41 acera 11-34t megarange cassette. This is with 26" wheels. I cycle mainly in London UK so there is a good mix of elevations but nothing too extreme. I find this gearing more than enough. A good thing to note is generally 8 speed or below chains are stronger when compared to the higher speed stuff. Worth considering imo.
I'm actually about to upgrade my MTB's 13T-28T 8spd to the Sunrace 11T-40T 9spd today. Been waiting all week to have the time to do this upgrade, can't wait to see what a 42T up front and 40T in the back would feel like. Edit: All I need for the chainring is a 42T that can fit in the MTB. The stock 42T BAFANG chainring barely fits and I really want a narrow-wide tooth ring.
Luna makes a 42 tooth chainring. (Have bought two from them) I have a 42 tooth bottom gear on the cassette. There aren’t many hills I cannot climb. I generally don’t need to go over 20, however.
Great video ..gearing on any bike can be optimized for rider, intended use, terrain etc. Bikepacking with a Bosch pedal-assist bike, I never used the top of the stock 11-42t cassette range.. even after climbing steep trails I would have struggled to clear on my standard (NoMo) lower-geared mountain bike. Installed an 11-36t this year, essentially removing a gear off the top and placing it in the middle where it’s more useful for long distance trips & battery management.
How many teeth are on your front sprocket? Just curious... I'm running 36 in front and 11-34T in back with a Bafang BBSHD on a fat bike with 29" effective diameter and this is generally very good, I set it up this way for hilly jeep trails. Only disadvantage is I can only pedal comfortably up to 25 mph, would be nice to get up to 30. I really like the hill performance the way it is, though, and don't want to lose that. 25 mph is a reasonable speed, although the bike is capable of over 30 with the throttle.
I put a 32T chainring on my bafang mid drive and the largest gear on my rear cassette is a 32T gear which means awesome hill climbing abilities, but I can still get to 30mph when I am on the smallest cassette gear which is plenty fast for me, the largest gear I can fit on my rear cassette is 32T without having to change derailer e.t.c a 42T chainring would make my bike faster but I would loose the hill climbing abilities of my 32T chainring which is more important than speed for me.
Bought a generic version of the Lekkei on Aliexpress for about $40. Is an offset with narrow wide teeth. Before when I went to the lowest gear the chain would fall off, or even before the lowest gear it would grind as I got lower on the gears. None of that happens now. It is a 42T and the original Bafang was a 44T. My eight gear cassette stock is 11-32. Aliexpress sells some that have larger low gears as well I may try.
I have both Cyclone 3000w and a Bafang BBS02 (750w) kits . 7 speed cassettes come in 12t-32t. 9 speed up to 11t-34t. The biggest Issue I have with the Bafang BBS02 and HD is their placement of a 6"-7" gear housing right where the crank chain rings are normally located. Unless the chainring is big enough wrap around the housing, you're stuck with a large single chainring in front. It is possible to mount a 48t and 32t double chainring setup (using Luna Cycles' adaptor and extra chainring bolts), but the rings way too far out (least 2 cm offset to the right. I.e. too much chain cross back to the cassette's large low gear). This gearbox housing placement means with BBS02 and BBSHD, you're pretty much stuck with a single large chain ring (at least 40t) and low gear running is strained by severe chain cross. As JNO suggested, there are 11-speed 11-42t cassettes, but they are pricey and you have to use an expensive (and less strong) 11 speed chain and 11 speed shifter. Practically speaking we DYR'ers will use 7 speed or maybe 9 speed, so the biggest rear gear will be 32t or 34t (at most) with a 46-48t front chainring. Even with the stock chainring (as well as the Leckie chainrings) when you shift into the low 32/34t rear gear, the chain cross is still pretty severe. This severe low gear chain-cross that is imposed by the BBS02 and BBSHD is inefficient power delivery, and wears out the chain, cassette, and chainring. I cannot apply full power without causing the chain to fall off chainring and or break. With the Cyclone, I am running a double ring front crankset (32t/44t) with a 12t-32t 7 speed cassette. Whether in low gear (32t rear, 32t front) or high gear (12t rear, 44t front), there is very little chain-cross.
I was able to build out a Mongoose fatbike to handle the double ring mod. I cut a half inch off the bottom bracket so the BBSHD can be moved far to the left. This allows the use of a Luna mini 30t and the Luna steel/aluminum chainring adapter and sprocket 44t. The mini has no offset and the steel/aluminum has the least offset available in the size I needed. Mounted side by side I now have an efficient low gear 30×34 and a high gear of 44×11for cruising. And as you stated, very little chain-cross. And that silly mount for the motor that will never stay tight, I welded it to the bottom bracket. Now the motor is bolted to the frame.
Coming from mountain biking I ditched anything other than 1x long ago and I’ll never go back so that’s all good with me personally. Hate front derailleurs
Yep, i got a 42t bling ring up front and it limits my top speed. But she climbs long 6% grades nicely. I probably could have done well with the stock bafang ring.
If you want to stick to 9speed rear and use a wide range cassette you need to upgrade the derailleur and shifter. Standard shimanos work up to 40t, but they still don't have cluch. What means Box components or chinese derailleurs. 9speed chinese cassettes are not very durable. E-bike 9speed chains either. What means way more sense makes to go for 1x11 shimano deore. Cogs sold separately are available for those cassettes. Because it's a very popular system some great discounts are available - I purchased Sram 1110 chains for 6£/7$ each. The 11sp deore has a clutch.
For anyone wondering about their motor's HP...1 horsepower = 746 watts. 1000 watt motor = 1.33 HP. Pay attention...there will be a test at the end of the video. LOL Please save those pallets for me. I'll need them to build a a shed for me and my bike to live in when my wife finds out what I've spent so far. 😅🤣😂
2:45 I think 40 mph is safe if you have a beefed up bike (stronger wheels & frame) and large enough brakes.....I want an e-bike but too poor now so I did the motorized bike build. Plus I never had a chance to test ride a 1,000w mid drive or something like a 3,000 hub drive, Toyota is supposed to release solid state test batteries in 2025 in a hybrid car. If solid state batteries live up the hype, they'll be a game changer for e-bikes.
You also need to think about tyres and tubes. 40mph for a long period of time (like is capable on an E-Bike) is putting a hell of a lot of friction heat into your tyres and tubes (if you're running them) it only takes a little failure and you're doing 40mph on a flat tyre, or more accurately you'll be doing 40mph on your ass as having a blow out at that speed is not going to be a super happy joy joy time.
Good point, stock tires on a mb might just be asking for a crash. Which tires are better for the increased speed. I plan to ride trails and some paved street.
@@harveyashworth6285 I seen online they make (supposedly more durable) e-bike tires that are supposed to be able to withstand higher speeds. I'm not sure about the quality, they're more expensive. Schwalbe makes a cargo bike/ebike tire called the "pick-up" that's supposed to be tougher. I'm looking for some motorized/ebike tires right now, so hopefully I can find some reviews on YT.
Great video Johnny, concentrating on an aspect of the build. Maybe a video on battery fitting, cable management, hydraulic brake sensor positioning and so on. Oh and maybe programming with the cable.Love this channel. Keep up the good work.
My Duo motor Radrover now has an ACI BAC855 on the mid drive, and a 750w bafang motor with the Radrover upgrade controller ... I never use the gears now. PAS is on the mid drive, and the hub motor is throttle only. I start in the smallest gear and give the rear motor a throttle burst and when I start pedaling the PAS kicks in. Even Going up hills, I never need gears. switch the mid drive to PAS 5, and hit both throttles don't even have topedal... easy 30mph up hills pulling my dog in her trailer
40 mph on mybike is very comfortable even on rough terain potholes etc.i onlyhave 180mm rotors and standard shimano hydraulics .full suspension is a must have but it has to be tuned perfectly ,so get decent suspension irun rockshox sektor and rockshox air shock on the rear of my voodoo canzo.works great with my hub motor too .which im running on a 52v battery at 26amps .tyres wont explode or disintegrate either 😂😂😂 and im not fussy what tyres i use either as long asthey hsvea rounded profile as mostof my riding is on the road and i do lean it over hard into turns .
Looking forward to consult around the 10-13th July…gotta get all my measurements / pics etc and get one booked then order the gear!..this video was timely for me. Thanks!
All the concern about gearing is a residual of regular bikes. You have to help a one H.P. motor get started or going up hills regardless of how many gears you have, otherwise you’ll ruin the motor. And when you’re going too fast to pedal, that’s because it’s a e bike.
That looks like an incredibly strong rear rack on the bike. A video on rear rack options would be very helpful. Is that a stock rear rack you bought somewhere? Thanks for all your help!
I have the 46t bafang for now, with a chain guide on the way but i've been looking at a new 8 speed cassette, and there aren't many that I can see. Theres a few no names but I don't know if I want to to that cheap either. I will be getting a lekki to keep that chain on, because I can't really use the top two gears right now. So yeah was thinking immediately the chain guide might help me a little, but the wider range would also help a lot too, then get the lekki when the money is free. First time out on trails today though with it, even street legal uk 15mph...awesome, handled 30 degrees quite well even with just the throttle. adding the pas worked better. So my head is kinda stuck though. How much does chain strength weaken by putting on 9 or 10 speeds? and take it for granted I cannot afford competition grade chains here. yet... But then, if I do go for something with 9-10 like srams which I think I like the sound off better as the mechanics are supposed to run cleaner on them where as shimano are starting to focus more on electric stuff which isn't where I am going at all. Then if I change cassette speed does that mean I will need a new derailleur too?
One of the arguments that I have seen against mid drives is that they break the freewheeling mechanism on the casset. I recently heard the mechanism taking a hammering on my wife's bike when she would pedal 2 cycles then freewheel for two cycles.. My instruction to her was basically to ghost pedal instead of stop pedalling to reduce this Any experience on this?
Do you or anyone know of a electric bike or motors that make transition. Like a locomotive does. High amps low voltage. To low amps high voltage. To overcome counter electromotive force. Why use gearing when you have electricity.
Yes it's all about gear ratio It's crazy when people put 1 speed at the back on mid drive system's. One of my first mid drive has 12 speed at the black & 3 speed at the front. The 29inch wheels with 12 speed sprocket & eagle technology Shifter & derailleur. And including rotor discs Only cost me £80 altogether pre-owned. They were broken little bit buckled but I fix them & straight them like new for free. For £100 I've actually build full mid drive system e-bikes. I only sold it the other day for £350 Still £250 profit It also has a big battery pack 14s 8p original cell's.
Wait, if you're just looking for something close to a 1:1 ratio, does it matter if it's ~56t:51t or if it's ~36t:33t? And wouldn't the relationship between RPM and wheel size matter more? I'm in the process of buying parts for a BBSHD mountain bike (29er). My cassette has the following configuration: 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-33-39-45-51T. I'm going to use a Lekkie 40T HD chainring, which should (hopefully) have enough offset to let me use all my gears. If I use my 2nd speed (39t) with a 40t chainring, I'll be extremely close to a 1:1 ratio. If I encounter a crazy hill while towing something heavy, I can go to my first speed to get closer to a 3:4 ratio, which should give me even better torque, and if I'm on the flat or going downhill, that 11t gear should help me go to a decent speed, as well. Now, with 29" wheels, the distance pushed per rotation of my wheel is very different than if I were to use a 20" wheel. I'm not sure what the most efficient balance is for the BBSHD's RPMs vs its torque, but with an 11-51t cassette and a (hopefully) good chain line, I should be able to find out.
Definitely tire size is part of the equation as well. But 26-29” tires are not nearly as important as gearing. 20 -29” tires would have a noticeable difference though.
@@JohnnyNerdOut By gearing, you mean making as full usage as gearing as possible, correct? Just wanting to make sure I have the right options on my bike. :) Thanks!
Here's a perfect set up for my 26inch wheels with bbs02 750w 46t front and 11-50t or 11-42t rear casset 9speed, will need derailleur extender or longer one and extend the chain or use full length of kmc 9sp chain I climb any steep hill provided I have traction and with full throttle and pedaling on the flat I can reach speed of 35mph, can buy the rear cassets and derailleur or extenders from aliexpress
I'm just finishing my build and realised that I want my throttle on the right but it will interfere with the rear shifter. So I've got a grip shift on the right and the throttle as well. Problem solved.
3 месяца назад
Hi, i changed my rear casette from 11-32 to 11-46 (deore 10 speed). When the gear is at 46 bafang m400 mid drive motor cuts the power off at half of the cadence. Dou you have an idea about the problem?
you don't multiply the power with the transmission! 😄 So your ultimate performance upgrade is just to have correct gearing? basically by putting a big chainring you're adding an overdrive, and with a wide range cassette you are maintaining low gears to climb. the good thing is that by using a big chainring you probably won't need to be on the smallest cog, unless you 're going down hill or really going top speed. tiny cogs like 11 or even 10/9 are not the most efficient so for the same gear, using both bigger chainring and bigger cog you can send the same torque/ power but with less stress on the chain. there is no real downside except ground clearance if it's a mountain bike. Also after seeing a review of the ariel rider grizzly they said it was picking up speed so quickly that they had a hard time going through the 7 gears...so if you have a powerful mid drive you might want to use a wide cassette bit maybe not with too many gears. like box 9 12-50T group set so you have a wife ratio but not too many gears to shift plus a wider chain than on a 11/12 sp
has anyone put a Bafang BBSHD 48 Volt 1000 Watt 68mm Mid Drive Kit on a 2007 Trek FuelEx 5? I want to try this. one site has templates you cut out to check the sizing of the motor/chainRing on your frame. I am waiting for the tools to disassemble my bottom crank. I wont know if it fits until then. but anyone out there who may have done this and sharing your experience would be welcomed.
You should really look into some of the other non-lekkie chainrings out there. Lekkie stuff is vastly overpriced and you can find the exact same quality stuff on Amazon and eBay for a lot less. I have a 52t that I've beaten the absolute shit out of that was 50 bucks
@@JohnnyNerdOut I have a chainring from DeRuiz (on Amazon) that's practically identical, down to the narrow-wide teeth. It's on my fat bike conversion and runs beautifully.
You can get a 104 bcd chainring adaptor from Amazon, I use one on bbs02 to run a cheap 38t. With an 11-32 on the back it'll climb well and top speed is up from 26 to 29mph, I think this is because the motor can hit higher rpm with this gearing. The bike is a Marin Alpine Trail 2002.
Luna’s chainring is a trifle cheaper, though still costly. I have a 42 tooth Luna chainring, and a 42 tooth bottom gear. I can climb *BAD* hills easily. I can go fast enough to suit me *easy.*
Yea they have identical type chainrings to lekkie on aliexpress made from same alloy and specs, for less than half the price, lekkie says theirs designed in New Zealand (still expensive there) but I bet it made in China probably same workshop the knock off are made
Depends on the bike. Some have throttle & some don’t like my Electra Cafe Moto Go, has no thtottle …. I am hoping somone will (hack) develop a throttle like I had on my Wowgo 2 skateboard … it was wireless hand held. Make so U can clamp to handlebar ⚡️🚲
Well If you can apply 9,500Nm to. 11,000Nm to your bike chain then yes it will break but your not going to be able to do that so mid drive is better then hub in my opinion
awesome intel. tell me what kind of gears would you recommend for my Walmart Huffy mountain bike. i have to travel 3 miles home on a slight incline and run out of gears !!
I have a 60T chainring up front and the lowest I use in the back is 13t and I can barely get to 32mph with my bafang m625 kit on a straight flat. I run ceramic bearings in my wheels and in my pulleys. And my suspension is stiff on my mountain bike. Perhaps people are reaching the higher speeds using the throttle alone. But you won't be able to pedal up to those speeds because of ghost pedaling. It'll be too easy to pedal and you won't generate the force needed to push the bike up to higher speeds. The motor's power assistance will over take you. I'm ghost pedaling on level three... cruising at 27-28mph. This kit goes to level five. Something is very suspicious with these guys 40+mph claims. Oh, and my bike is a 29er with street commute thread tires.
What rpm are you pedaling at? Every one tops out at different rpm but if you are able to hit 80-90 crank rpm with a 60t-13t ratio on 29er you should hit 35 fairly easy I would think.
@@JohnnyNerdOut I could if I wasn't ghost pedaling... That's the point. At level 4 on this mid drive I begin ghost pedaling at that gear ratio. Which means I could probably get up to 40mph if I had a larger front and/or smaller rear cog. I don't see how people are reaching those speeds with just pedaling on a flat road unless they're not pedaling and instead are using the throttle alone.
I have a Trek Marlin I converted to mid drive, currently using the stock 36T chainring not sure I can go much bigger on the chainring without frame interference ? Thanks
BRO I WOULD LOVE TO TURN MY SE 26 SINGLE SPEED INTO A E BIKE. I LOVE MY BIKE BUT IT'S A KILLER AT 12 MILES TO MY JOB. PLEASE IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A LITTLE INFO THAT WOULD BE GREAT xDx
Have someone gotten a doble chain ring? I wann big gears im talking about 58t or 60t. Thats a lot but is for descends and flats thats why want two for using a 44 up too that way it can climb with good 32 t gear behind i saw a doble chaing ring but was a shame like 32/42 something like that why would you do that...
what kind of gears would you suggest for a mid drive Royce union 8 speed ? maybe a 11 to 42t cassette and a 52t chainring for strong 17-22 headwinds here in Southern Arizona ..thanks
I know this wasn't a review but I couldn't help admire the Benno conversion. Is that one of your bikes? It's what I'd call a super efficient PHEV SUV. Me likey! You can find wide ratio cassettes (11 to 42 tooth) in as few as 8 gears now. I haven't seen a freewheel with larger than a 34t granny.
Ya thats my wifes bike :) Love our Benno's! I found a 11-46t in a 9-speed (which I have) that I need to upgrade too soon. Ya, the freewheels are really slim on the ratios :(
@@JohnnyNerdOut Sweet! When I put my 1st e-bike together no wide ratios below 10 speeds. I'd prefer as few gears as possible with as wide a ratio as possible but ya play the cards your dealt. I'm hoping to go back to 8 gears when I eat through this cassette.
@@JohnnyNerdOut I’ve seen videos of people adding new grease vs what comes in it, is this necessary? Ps thank you for responding. I actually bought my kit off your site after watching your videos. I now take my bike to and from work
Why do people think they need a Lekkie chainring 😂🤣lol. I use very cheap chainring or i use original chain rings on my mid Drive systems. I get no wear & chin never comes off And my e-bikes are high powered 2500w 82v If you're getting problems with your chainring something is put together wrong.
Different frame geometries call for different chainline offsets. Sometimes the motor bumps out the chain line very far especially on short chain runs, and it requires maximum offset to be able to use the lowest gears. I’d say only about a third of bikes need a new chainring.
YES!! about time someone raised "speed" just because a bike can get to 40mph doesn't you do it an hold that speed, at the end of the day they're bicycles they're not meant to do high speed especially with the weight they're carrying, power is awesome as long you respect it, bicycle tyre blows out at 40+mph it's going to be all bad
@@bindingcurve lol they're bicycles all day long not crutch rocket motor bikes, they're not rated for high speed just because you might get away with it for a while don't mean it's a good idea
@@arronjohnston742 30-40 is NOT high speed. Again, GOOD quality bike have no issues with this. I have been on long decent rides when we are averaging 40 on a hour + ride and hitting over 60. The biggest issue we have is the brakes heating, not something a commuter has deal with.
@@bindingcurve I've had 5 bikes now. If you have a quality donor bike with quality components the speed is not an issue. What is an issue, especially with a cheap donor, is rough riding or shifting under load. If you are a heavy rider and add 30-40 pounds of motor and battery to your walmart bike then go off roading something's gonna give. Speed wise even the cheapie can do it. Just won't stop fast. Hydraulic brakes are a must on these bikes imo.
This shows how to multiple torque on a small motor and make your bike do 5mph maximum speed. You can't have both. You already have a happy medium with your gears. This dude waisting your time
Cheapest upgrade??? ultimate performance Boost??? of a Bafang Mid Drive.... How does making it a priority system make it the cheapest and ultimate, Bafang Mid Drive???? Thanks for the Sponsored post, but a direct comparison chart would have made it much clearer.... If there was any advantages to it whatsoever.... Much less the cheapest or ultimate performance boost
im building a 44 to 9-50. im great at shifting so im never going to start in 9. i feel like im going to get some intense speed but ive not seen too many in that setup
▪ I feel like there's eventually going to be an ebike video game. To make it interesting, I think it should be turned into a civil war story of mid drive riders VS hub drive riders. 🟥
