The Closet: What... Is It? (Deltarune Theory) 

I've watched both so it could be either lol. Though I think it was probably Device Theory part 1 and I forgot because part 2 just came out

@guiltyflygon I just watched them both a few days ago but now I need a refresher. I try n keep up with way too many theories to remember who said what.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking for the bunker. That still leaves us with a sprawling web of tunnels under the town which is what I meant when I said the bunker stretches underneath the town, which I guess wasn't quite the right wording huh. As for the storage closet idea. That does explain some of the quirks of the closet world, mostly why every darkner can be there, but it doesn't really explain any of the other weird stuff like the visual connection between the Castle Town and Jevil's basement or the whole cliffs area. It could end up being some mixture of both ideas too though, who knows?

Thanks 👍

Yeah, someone brought up that before, which I do think means he'll be there eventually. The weird part of it to me still is that's the only place he appears. Like, he doesn't have a cowboy sprite for example... I don't think the Shadowmen section is a red herring, but it might tell us something about Ralsei's level of involvement that he isn't being emphasized as much. Maybe he will come in late or you'll get booted out of the dark world at sunrise and have to go back to finish it? Maybe, maybe not lol.

That isn't necessarily true, as we see lancer in the deltarune update while we don't have the playing cards in our inventory when Kris creates the fountain

I don't like the idea of ralsie not having a big impact because he had little to none for almost the entirety of chapter two, so I would rather he be completely absent than simply present and unimportant. Also, I think that seeing ralsie and Toriel together doesn't make much sense conceptually, and would force Toby to directly address the ralsie asriel connection, which I wouldn't personally consider a good idea so early into the game. We have to keep in perspective that we likely only have 2/7 of the equation, so explaining one of the biggest mysteries before the halfway point would signal to us that major twists are coming, lightnining some of the tension and importance of some of the smaller mysteries in our minds, which overall would be a negative in my book as that is what characterizes much of of the current climate of theorycrafting.

Maybe it was a new robot type character. We just don’t Know yet

Hmm... I didn't think about that but you're very right! That might explain how sealing dark fountains works in general. (That was the video yes, someone else told me too lol. There should be a card there now that links to it.)

That's fair, but the big question becomes why DOESN'T the closet have darkners in it already? (Besides the barely sentient mold guys) I can see the logic of it being a mostly abandoned room and Toriel and Alphys mostly bringing their own stuff, but then you'd imagine it'd have some dusty unneeded stuff still left there like the papers that are on the floor when we walk in the first time. Why don't those come to life? The same logic also works for the bunker, as it's a place where you'd put things you want to keep safe, and I definitely agree with the way you assigned the theme of the dark world in a way. How is the closet dark world special? Other than it being able to house all darkners and Ralsei not wanting us to close it. (Which might just be because it's his lol) Because the Knight assumedly didn't make it?

does he know?

anoðer one?

Thorn

@@PhantomGato-v- þorn

He knows too much!

A few people have brought up the closet's theme potentially being something like "unused items" hence why everyone can fit in there, and while I do believe the Darkners turning to stone is due to not fitting with a dark world's motif, I still have a couple of doubts. Mainly that the closet dark world seems to have some weird properties that don't fit with it just being a closet, like the castle town, and the fact that the storage argument doesn't really work with everybody. Like, for chapter 1 it's fine, but chapter 2? The Hacker is a computer cursor so him fitting in seems weird, and there's many others based on programs and not physical items like Tasque Manager or ViroVirokun. That said, it kind of depends on whether the laptop can count as like, 15 darkners at once, or just Queen lol. At this point I think it's impossible to know given our limited knowledge of the dark worlds, so anything could happen.

I definitely don't think it's a dark world previously destroyed by the Roaring. If it was the darkners inside should be statues which we don't see at all. Though I suppose Ralsei hiding a garden of statues might link back to the Narnia themes this story has. You know, going into the closet and finding a new world and all. The cliffs being shelves and the dust being dust makes enough sense, but the castle is still a weird outlier. I still feel like the closet being totally empty is odd, it's a supply closet after all, where are all the supplies? Unless Noelle knowingly sent Susie to the empty closet for... reasons, and ended up getting Kris sent with her instead by accident. Or maybe it's just that Noelle is the knight lol. Who knows.

@guiltyflygon I love it! Noelle revealed to be a knight!! Lol doubtful but I'd fall over in shock if it did happen 😆. You're right about the statues...there would be stone darkners everywhere, but there are no signs of them, unless they aged and turned to those dust piles??? I doubt it. Ralsei is sus though...he has to be keeping something from neither Kris or the player because he doesn't even have a room n the castle and when Susie asked about it he seemed vague on purpose...plus he has a locked door on the first floor behind the cauldron, but you wouldn't lock the door for your dungeon where you keep a dangerous, violent Spade King??? Maybe that's where he keeps the statues lol.

That's fair, though I don't know why Gaster would be testing if there are photons in a dark room lol. You'd think he'd know that 😅 Unless like, whatever experiment blew out the lights and that's his overcomplicated way to say that?

"Photon readings... negative" "Dude, just turn on the lights" "Ah, now the readings are positive" "ffs old geezer"

Idk "photon readings negative" Would seem pretty random to report then Just gaster saying "Hmm my sealed room with no light HAS NO LIGHT" which reporting that makes sense in a real experiment but in a fake one seems like an odd line to just attach to a fictional lab report

Other than (deltarune.com/shadowmen/) where Ralsei is with the gang for the battle and that one meme sprite of him with a melon for a head I don't remember another case of actually seeing him with the group..? Like, the cowboy sprites are only for Kris and Susie and while we see a lot of stuff for Susie linking her to chapter 3 like the "blink" sprite I don't think we see much of Ralsei? That was what I was going off of anyways, I could be wrong though lol, the newsletters are a bit hard to remember all of. The Shadowmen could technically be a chapter 4 enemy if (deltarune.com/assets/images/update2022-dr-ch4-cafe.gif) was taken from the end of chapter 4 rather than the start, but otherwise the Ralsei sprite from ramb would have to be an intentional red herring so yeah, he's probably inexplicably with us lol

@@guiltyflygon true true

He and susie will probably be there in all chapters, with only othe characters such as noelle herdly torielle the police (wether undyne or blooky, whichever arrives) and sans perhaps, being on and of members

A couple of people have mentioned this so I apologize if my reply is curt lol. My basic counter-argument is that, while this works for most darkners, it seemingly doesn't for some like the Hacker, Tasque, Tasque Manager for example. Hacker is a computer cursor and the other two are programs, not a physical objects, so it's pretty incongruous for the storage theme to fit them in. It kind of depends on how the laptop is categorized, if a single object can be multiple darkners at once, etc. But for now it leaves me with a little doubt. It also doesn't explain the castle, similarities to Jevil's basement, or Ralsei's movement between fountains, but that could be something else entirely so I digress. Bottom line, it's hard to know, and you could definitely be right, but I'm not 100% convinced either way lol.

@@guiltyflygon Our comment specifically deals with the darkners not turning to stone. And if a computer goes into storage, so does its cursor, as does any files on hard disks in storage. At least that's our logic. We wouldn't be surprised if we're wrong, though.

You know, I just thought about this when you said this... I bet the Japanese translation could probably clear this up. The word used seems to be "マイナス" (Mainasu or roughly minus). As far as I can see Mainasu is used mostly for actual subtraction. In other words, when something is taken away or there is a deficit of it. That said, I'm only gleaning this from translation websites, so an actual Japanese speaker would probably help a lot here. I unfortunately don't know any, so maybe bringing up this topic on the reddit or something could solve it.

Is there anything more that implies that the Castle Town fountain is special other than Ralsei calling it "pure darkness"? I feel like a lot of the lore you explained at the beginning is something I've never heard before. Also, the Closet Dark Fountain and the Castle Town Dark Fountain are the same fountain, at least as far as we know. So the Castle Town fountain does emit Darkness just like the Computer Lab the first time.

Could be true! I mean, a balance of light and dark would imply that there's just as much dark world as there is light world so... If this bunker dark world was as big as the town that'd make sense.

A very interesting concept if true! I could definitely see some shenanigans happening later in the story with being able to call the Caste Town to wherever you want.

That's very possible given how much we know the Cyber City seems to have been shaped by Noelle... and to a lesser extent Berdly lol. We'll just have to see if it tracks with Chapter 1 when we learn more about Susie and Kris!

I would agree but it still doesn't explain why the closet is empty (no darkners besides Ralsei, yet Noelle/Alphys fully believe there are extra supplies in there), why the castle exists there, or the watery noises we hear when Kris first wakes up. The closet being themeless because it's a storage space makes sense of the petrifying darkners problem, but none of the other weird happenings. So, even if my insane ramblings are wrong, something else is clearly going on lol.

A few others have brought up the idea of the closet's theme being "storage" thus everyone can exist there. I think it works for most Darkners, but with some of the more conceptual ones like Hacker (which seems to be a computer cursor), or Tasque Manager and the Tasques (which seem to be a task manager program and various running processes) it gets a little dodgy. I don't think having a task manager program in a closet fits the theme... It kind of depends whether Queen is the laptop on her own or if the laptop also supplies these guys. Hard to say at this point tbh. You bring up a very interesting point about the Card Castle though. I wonder if it being a cabinet gives it any special properties like the closet? My gut would be to say no, it'd have to be its own dark fountain in order to get those, but it's possible that's why the Knight chose there to make the fountain. Same with the computer lab. Queen's mansion is probably the server closet or storage cabinet. Them being so similar is a little suspicious.

It's possible that the closets theme is just "needs to store things" but I don't know what that would say about Ralsei lol. Is Ralsei even from the closet? I don't know. It possible Ralsei is just a super-Darkner that has special powers that have yet to be explained to us, that's for sure. It just isn't very fun to theorize with that in mind because it's like staring into an abyss. There is pretty much nothing you can say about it that's interesting lol. A lot of people have speculated that his knowledge of the light world and meta topics might be because he has a shadow crystal, which would be neat if true, but that's about as far as we can go with our current knowledge.

@guiltyflygon The crazy thing about Ralsei is lots of people say he is either Kris's "Fursona" or the remains of a dead Asriel. What's interesting about them is rather he is either or both, Ralsei still shares similarities to the empty closet lol. One I know for sure is his lack of fulfillment. Sure he says he's a prince but he has not subject. Just like his dark world is a closet with nothing in it but mold n dust. Makes you wonder why they even sent kris and Susie to the closet for chalk lol. Another is his lack of personality, to just as the closet is empty. I feel this will change even more as the story progresses, but that's my theory. Some say he might just pan out to be a bad guy who is working with gaster. I just feel that he knows everything, but doesn't know who he really is (personality wise).

And Sans calls himself the janitor at his store....?

A closet large enough an adult can hide in. A SHORT adult (who may be able to teleport) can hide in even better.

This is my next video probably lol. About DT and Dark Fountains.

@@guiltyflygon go for it can't wait to see it!!!

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-kZvsFCYuL2w.htmlsi=E4fSxH41caZQrGG1

Sorry, your link got blocked so I just got around to watching this theory now! Overall the concepts are pretty similar, but slightly different. The Submarine Theory is based on the assumption that there is a separate world of darkness that we are punching into with Determination, where as mine assumes that there is a greater Dark Fountain literally underneath the town (in the bunker) in the light world that we're punching into. In the former there's a magical barrier that is being pierced, while in the latter it's literally just the floor lol. The Submarine Theory ponders if the Castle Town fountain can move inside the Depths, or if at least Ralsei can move in it, while my theory is supposing that the Castle Town dark world is is so massive (on account of being the whole bunker) that it literally spans the distance between the points where the dark fountains were made, thus Ralsei can just walk between them. (Though this was just a point I threw out there for fun, I'm not sure if I really believe that.) Very similar in basic concept though lol. Thanks for showing me it.

@guiltyflygon sure! ThankS for giving more details on the differences. Either theory sounds like it could be legit. Your theorynkn the bunker would fit well as far as kris' fear of going inside of if it. They don't seem to be too afraid of much, so something traumatic had to take place in there...I just don't see why the adults wouldn't block it off or investigate if that's where dess mightve went missing...you think kris n assie didn't tell the adults? Sorry I'm rambling now.

Yeah okay, it seemed everyone else pretty much realized this already. Cool.

I'm definitely no math whiz so I'll take your word for it lol

:0

I make these comments just to point things out not to insult or reject theories

All good. I was just busy lately.

I might need some clarification on your points here but I'll try my best to explain haha. It is confirmed in Chapter 1 that there are two dark fountains, yes. The point I think you're confused about is from me musing that maybe all the dark fountains come from a single source of darkness under the town. That was mostly just a possibility, not one I particularly believe in but one I had to address. I still believe there was two fountains in chapter one no matter what, even if it's true that they all come from one source. Fountains in that case would just be breaches into this darkness in the bunker under the town instead of what we think now which is that they're breaches into a different dimension or something. Basically, all I was saying is that the Closet dark fountain might be an old fountain that's just leaking darkness up into the closet, and then the Card Kingdom fountain was actually made there later. When it comes to the radiating darkness, it does seem true so far that they only do so when we first open them up. What I was trying to answer was why. After all, if it's really just the first time they're exposed to light then that brings up a lot of questions about the Knight and how they're getting out of these Dark Worlds.

@@guiltyflygon so I had to rewrite my reply because I subscribed. but what I was going to say is that I think we are on the same page I just misunderstood what you meant. I thought the video was saying that darkness only radiates when fountains are created recently not when they are opened. so I was trying to point out that we have no clue when the chapter 1 fountains were made and our only evidence is ralsei saying that the card castle fountain was made after castle town's. so I stated or at least attempted to state that the difference between the castle town fountain and the other fountains is strange and I have no idea why the distinction exists. I may have also missed the part where you acknowledged that there was two dark fountains in chapter 1 at all. the rest of this comment is replying to GuiltyFlygon and is not to explain my initial comment I am aware of the depths theory. I agree with your opinion on that theory as well. I feel that the theory makes sense from a literal point evidence being (you fall into dark worlds, home town has a bunker, bunkers are underground, home town bunker makes gaster noises, gaster must be in bunker, gaster is assumed in dark world, bunker must be dark world). it makes sense literally but I argue/claim it doesn't thematically unless you take ralsei's dialogue of darkners being subservient or social under lightners literally which is an uncomfortable thought or you tie it to undertale where that is a theme. cause the underground is well under the surface world and then makes me think does undertale take place in a dark world? like maybe because there's no proof monsters can even use magic in home town if they could why is rudy in a normal hospital? but that is a can of worms I wish not to even attempt to speculate about. I think we are on the same page GuiltyFlygon. despite the critique I actually really liked this video and the thoughtful replies even more so encouraging community engagement a thing I feel is sorely missed on youtube. so thank you hopefully this reply is clearer.

I've never claimed to be a scientist so I'm sure you're right about the physics of light lol. I guess by "natural light" I meant in the colloquial sense of "light from nature, not technology." The Dark Fountains seem to be made from what is basically magic, so I don't think it's too farfetched that there could be a distinction there. Although, DT is linked to science a lot in Undertale and "Survey Program" is a very science-y take on the more mystical rules around DT (like saving) from Undertale, so maybe there's some more tech to it then I'm inclined to believe.

To be fair I'm not one to watch TV news but I do think getting the weather forecast in the morning is usually what you see represented in media if nothing else.

Oh. I shoulda watched more lol

Like I said, I'm no expert lol. I looked it up and Lumens are apparently the unit of measurement when it comes to light? In that case Photons are still the particle that would be missing if there was no light, and that result would then be measured in Lumens. So when Gaster says "Photon readings negative" he's referring to a reading of -25 Lumens or something. I still might be wrong though lol. I didn't particularly like physics in school.

@@guiltyflygon fair I just find it weird that gaster puts it that way. because you'd think as a scientist of many fields to the point of an indistinguishable amount of technology could be considered magic (that's a paraphrased quote I know not who from). that gaster would know what a lumen is unless he's trying to be vague for some double meaning of photon like how stats in undertale are treated.

@@saxeladude Yeah, that's true. My only thoughts might be that maybe Toby isn't much of a physics nerd either or, probably more likely, Toby may have chosen to use photons as a more accessible word for a general audience. That said, it could have implications I just don't understand lol. If you're more knowledgeable on the subject that might be something to dig into

@@guiltyflygon I assure you I am not more knowledgeable on the subject. but if I find something odd that niggles the back of my brain I'm likely to share my speculative opinions. like I have been doing evidenced by the 10 plus comments I've written for your video's thus far. lol

Actually lumens wouldn't be the proper measurement because Lumens are just light visable to the human eye emmitted by a souce and they are equal to the Watts of a light source multiplied by the photons per second it emits I hope this helps

I believe in you!

@@guiltyflygon thnamnks!!!!!!!!