The Council of Nikaea EXPLAINED By An Australian | Warhammer 40k Lore 

21st like… also just curious can you tell me when I subbed to this whacky channel? Honestly over the entire headache that is the Council of Nikea and I’m okay on Magnus as I don’t know much about him… I love that I learn more about my favorite Primarch and the character that pulled me away from being a filthy nurgalite, Sanguinius of the Blood Angels. I really want a calendar but sadly I’m recently unemployed and broke… my army is on indefinite hold. The burgund Acolytes are still just a dream😢

Argel Tal mini when ?

@@todd5640 just watch the video he posted 4 days ago dip$hit

@Nega Doge oh i seen it and i think loyalist version of Argel Tal or a different and bigger version of daemon Argel would be cool as a new major mini

Why didn't Magnus just leave the Crusade after the council?

Extremely boss artwork - good call

@@majorkill Thank you brother, Thibault the artist is incredible! We both hoped the community would enjoy it too, especially as the first representation of the Council of Nikea. If you guys like his work, check out the link in the videos description!

Both of you are fucking amazing at what you do!

The Amber king literally has the Magnus the Red ‘Council of Nikea’ speech voice acted on his Magnus video! It’s awesome!

@@TheAmberKing I literally just finished watching your video on Magnus the Red. Amazing stuff!

Or Perty from building things.

​@@robertnelson9599 The Emperor does that

I guess the secrecy was to protect it from chaos finding out, but Big E didn’t know that chaos knew the whole time.

@@xenoblad It's implied Big E kept Chaos a secret because learning about Chaos would corrupt some people.

@@xenoblad the Emperor knew.

@@robertnelson9599 It's understandable, I think. Big E knew just how dangerous Chaos is. And, as the reader, we all know how dangerous it is and how easily Chaos can corrupt people. So, I think his biggest fear was making them known to his sons and that opening the door for their curiosity to delve deeper into it. For example, knowing the character of Magnus, could you say with 100% confidence that he wouldn't immediately dive into the warp to study the Chaos Gods immediately after the Emperor tells him about their existence?

Alpharius was convinced by the kabal so I think they still would have turned

THE CRUSADE RESUMES

Emperor be with you, the crusade endures!

I think most of them would have reacted pretty violently. Guilliman is one of the more reasonable ones and he was fuming.

I saw your comment on his most recent video and you claimed it’s more than 10 you’ve commented on so I decided to fact check. You weren’t wrong 😂

😂 being saved because you have a goofy Scandinavian name.

@@xenoblad it was one of those funny moments I'm the lore because at first Kasper had a translator device so he could communicate with the fenrisians but the Leman never had their language added to the system so that the space wolves could speak their language during battle without anyone really knowing what they were saying because it would sound like a bunch of gibberish. Kasper had to put together a working translation on the fly using a bunch of different tribal languages the imperium had already encountered and it was still incomplete even the deamon using him and putting the ability to speak and understand the language still messed up sometimes. It was so incomplete that the first space wolf he met was Bjorn, who shot him down so he had to go save him to make up for his mistake, and when he told Kasper his name the translator he had at the time told him that the name he was given was actually bear, so he spent the whole book calling him that and Bjorn never bothered to correct him until the end of the book after the burning of prospero.

That is one of the most half-assed, bs reasons for a herohammer moment but hey, it’s 40k lmao

@@gideonmele1556 you're not wrong but still more tolerable than half the things Mephiston has been able to do at least in my opinion and not nearly as much a herohammer moment as Bjorn fighting and wounding deamon primarch Magnus post interment because Magnus forgot he was a deamon space wizard almost on par with the Emperor.

Fulgrim was part of the pro-psyker faction in the Council of Nikea.

Perturabo also banned librarians because he was too close-minded to add psykers into his battle plans.

@@robertnelson9599 Big oof since Magnus and Perturabo were best friends. They even bonded together when they explore around Terra during their visit.

@@TheWarmachine375 dude fulfrim wasn't friends with perturabo he was friends with ferris mannus

@@blacktemplarhelbrecht 🤦‍♂️

Literally this

Well, the biggest reason was kinda being called a liar, then being attacked and killed. Would piss me off to honestly.

It's a big f u for every Astarte who was fighting for humanity in the great crusade, and those who knew them or have been influenced by them. Psychic Space Marines fought just as hard as the rest, sometimes even risking more, but in this council they have been shamed and dishonored as wrong-doers. This dishonor also brings doubt to all who liked them or fought aside them, have been saved by such. That whatever they achieved, the honor of it, could be taken away in a moment on the whim of a Primarch or the Emperor, based on silly politics. While most Astarte had nothing in their life, but lived for the Great Crusade. It also sends a message to Astropaths and generally psychers in the Imperium, that they are second class citizens. This, was a huge mistake. Especially, because it speaks against the general feeling of what is just and right for most people. The council also projects the image, that in important decisions only the Primarchs, their legions and the Emperor's word counts. While this later on can seriously impact citizens, or lead to the full on outlawing of psychers. Normal citizens, army soldiers or generals experience was not listened to. Even thou they might've been saved by Astarte, or could've been healed by a Biomancer. Overall, the Council of Nikea was a big mistake.

I feel like people in the real world rely too much on ‘punishment’ for reformation of crime, rather then considering ‘rehabilitation’. What if Magnus was punished? He might still turn traitor anyway depending on the punishment. It isn’t rocket science, the future would be so much flux, Kairos might as well smoke new drugs to try and chill out to pick one good one. Magnus was the model, sure, but the Librarius Project was also founded by the Great Kahn and he wasn’t on a trial. (If anything, the Emperor kind of forgot about him, which would be in character, I guess.) Magnus needed to be in a room, with the Emperor or a high tier psyker like Malcador, and be isolated in a huge training arc and if there is any hint of corruption of possession, that bolter is ready just for you. But that did not happen. I don’t think a punishment is fitting if rehabilitation is possible, and considering 2/3rds of the Founders of the Librarius Project stayed loyal, it is logical. The Council was a witch hunt, both figuratively and literally. Morty had some good arguments, but he would have had an even better argument if the Emperor steelmanned his argument and explained “actually what you fought were Khornate cultists, one of the four factions of the chaotic primordial forces (doesn’t have to use god, just stretch the truth a bit.)” That would sway his argument and not necessarily persecute Magnus. With the same breath, he could then also say “Psychic powers are not inherently demonic and need to be thoroughly trained.” but of course, that is too much hindsight for hypocritical dad written with god precognition by over half a dozen to dozen writers. So yeah, might be too much.

If I were Emperor, I would punish Magnus but not psykers; the Librarium should have been preserved. I would take Magnus to Terra, to study and to make him learn some common sense.

Except punishment of Magnus alone wasn't an option. The trial was not focused on what to do with Magnus, but what to do with psyckers. When the overwhelming majority of your military leaders are either strongly against psyckers or don't have much of a problem with them going away, even the Emperor has to go with the popular opinion. So it's not a mistake to do what's necessary. You can't even call it a mistake for the Emperor not to trust Magnus and not tell him about his plans in more detail. He didn't fully trust him because he knew that Magnus had been influenced by Chaos. The only mistake (by definition) was Magnus to refuse to listen to his father and stay away from Chaotic powers. The biggest mistake was his arrogance.

the emperor had full right to dictate banning psychic usage because he is as old as humanity itself, has studied the warp for god knows how long and is fully aware of the massive danger the warp poses, the emperor falling to chaos is quite literally impossible.

It’s not an irony tbh more of a testament on how dangerous the warp is that the oldest and most powerful psyker in human history is banning using warp fuckery says a lot

@@perkele9994 I get that, but he's still picking and choosing who is and is not ok with very little explanation as to why. He let the rune priests continue with no reason given.

The Thousand Sons had also been summoning daemon familiars for decades by this point and thought that they could control them. They used their powers for even the most mundane tasks like cleaning their weapons instead of doing it manually, and Magnus had made a straight up pact with Tzeentch which is why he lost an eye.

@@perkele9994 i think the real issue is telling the second/third strongest psycher inn existence (not 100% who was stronger between malcador and magnus) to not use his power and not exxplain what and why he shouldn t do it was the crucial mistake. id understand the corrupting powers of the warp but to someone so in tunne with it he needed to know about it. he needed to know that out there lurk beings who only want to take control and manipulate others. if he understood what he was facing probably magnus would have taken it much better and complied much easier to the edict.

'Warp fuckery for me, not for thee.'

@@teal_m_101 Eldar thots only for the Emperor.

How much blood does it take to drown a primarch?

So did the emperor

Id argue telling only magnus was enough. while all are some degree of psykers magnus is literally the second or thirrd strongest one in the galaxy. even if he somehow obeyed the council he was like a beacon for warp entities. i think it would have been nearly impossible for him to avoid the warp. he needed to know so he could protect himself from it.

@@ZergMeTaSWORM yeah if he knew then the Webway would still be intact and Magnus would be a loyalist and Big E wouldn’t be on the throne too

@Red Hawk Yeah that and Lorgar was the slowest one turning planets and was given a worst warning granted humiliation and burning down a evacuated city still hurts even the act was condemned by leman Russ and others. But I think Magnus was given more warnings and chances then Lorgar now in the present Lorgar won and was true about Big E being a god and 4 other evil gods who now have his attention and worship biggest mistake not talking to Lorgar behind closed door which would’ve cleared the air and stopped the downward spiral but only if Erebus was stopped or Lorgar staying as a loyalist.

@@Channel-23s If anything, it'd be Magnus who'd be stuck on the Throne (at least until the Webway project is finished).

@@ZergMeTaSWORM Second strongest.

He has made a video about the reboutian heresy if you want to check

I always laugh that Magnus worse enemy in the Council was himself. Like I believe in canon a lot of white scars blame Magnus for not shutting the fuck up during this.

​@@andrewdo2796 Yeah, White Scars representative Targutai Yesugei said pretty much this in canon. "If only Magnus had common sense we would have won".

And Mortarion respected that; he was angry but made peace with that, and got Sisters of Silence to help him. Leman, though...

@@user-xw5xo3bv1n man I love the white Scars

At this point I'm expecting some sort of alternate reality or time travel twist in the final Siege of Terra book. There's been odd discrepancies in the way the siege has played out compared to established lore, and that plus the stuff going on with the Yellow King in 40K, and the glimpses of other realities in 40K books seems to be setting something up. Plus the last Siege of Terra book said in no uncertain terms that Terra's ecosystem and food and water supplies are completely dead from radiation, and that there probably isnt enough uncontaminated raw material to even restore the planet and keep humans alive. That's a pretty big break with established lore about Terra's history.

Are we all ready for 40k to get the AoS treatment? That’s where I see it going.

Have you listened to the whole video? Both of them where there with Sisters shielding SW for Magnus to not notice them

Custodes generally suck against fighting chaos without protection and help and take huge losses when they deal with them on their own.

but im totally not a god you guys

act like a god then say he not

Yeah, Perty is not a primarch to impede on progress of any kind, though he himself preferred the engineering route

Added salt to the wound: Yes Perturabo and Magnus got on with each regarding their stance on knowledge. The Emperor had commissioned Perturabo to build him a grand amphitheatre. Pert didn't know what for but did as he was told. Then the trial happened. Not sure if it says whether or not Magnus felt betrayed by Perty

@@HenchmenNo616 I feel the writers modelled Emps to be a mix of Chuck Norris and Cinderella's stepmom

Perturabo actually banned librarians because he was too close-minded to add psykers into his battle plans.

@@vincentadultman6226 No wonder why Big E is a bipolar

The Council of Nicea in the Christian Church was where religious books were either accepted or banned from the bible. Banned bible stories are called Christian apocrypha books. The Books accepted into the Bible are canonized books.

*Arianism exist* Council: Sounds like heresy if you ask us.

Or he just was smart enough to say let’s talk it out instead of act like children’s. Memes aside lorghar was actually one of the only sensible ones

Truth. There is no honor in lies or betrayal

@@DredgenFenris have you ever thought maybe the space wolves could write into action some sort of honor code that forbids and condemns certain types of behavior like hypocrisy? offering swift punishments for things like betrayal, dishonesty, disloyalty, etc. just an idea

Agreed. Love the wolves, but that bit hurt. Ahriman was such a great guy and Wyrdmake kicked him in the balls. Not cool

@@deathkorpsinfantryman1898 I like to believe not all Space wolves are like Othur, instead I imagine the Runepriest as a kind of “tamed” Psyker so to speak. The problem with the thousand sons is they were too careless. Space Wolves value honor and the glory of the fight, however I can understand why they don’t like Psykers, there’s no honor in getting c*m blasted by a lightning bolt. I think as time went on the Rune priests felt shame for what happened with the thousand sons, After all they really aren’t that different. Me personally? I think it’s stupid what happened at prospero, the wolves never should have attacked the thousand sons when their orders were to capture them and Magnus. As for hypocrisy, yes the wolves are very bad hypocrites especially the rune priests. Should there be punishment for dishonorable deeds? Absolutely.

@@DredgenFenris agreed. also in hindsight maybe the emperor could have sent the white scars instead of the wolves, seeing as magnus had a much more friendly relationship with the khan. i mean sending the self professed "emperor's executioner'' and his legion who happen to hate the very people they've been sent arrest was bound to send the wrong message.

Sorry, this is 40k, and the Big E is so poorly written his gimmicks are as fractured as his soul, no way he would do something this sensible. In all seriousness, the great crusade was all the big E cared about. He nuked a city because Lorgar couldn't keep up the pace, there's no way he'd give any Primarch a timeout, slowing an entire arm of great crusade. Kurze and Magnus both needed timeouts

@@vincentadultman6226 unless that timeout was for another purpose, like he pulled Dorn to work on Terra and I would have him get Magnus to help him on the Webway. He could always have his Captains support the less psychic Legions and have the Chaplains and Custodes monitor/approve their time to be used.

@@DarkApostleNoek he was wayyy too secretive about the webway to ask for help on it, and Magnus' having friends on the other side likely didn't help.

@@vincentadultman6226 Do you want to reread what I first put. Cause while Magnus is there he couldn't be contacted by Chaos as the Wards kept them out, and since he doesn't leave until it is done then no worries there.

@@DarkApostleNoek that's all swell, but the Emperor didn't trust any of his sons enough to let them know of the project, likely due to paranoia, I just tacked the Chaos bit as the possible reason he wouldn't let Magnus specifically in there, given his prior contact with unknown warp entities

Truth I remember that one I totally agree with the angry custode tho it is still weird to see an angry custode toward the emperor

Well the Khan was against the imperial truth since the beginning and he argued with Big E and Malcador about it, if not for Sanguinius convincing him that his voice could help keeping the stormseers as they were he wouldn't have bothered on participating or tried to pull Horus to Magnus's side

@@justinLaw5 that and even before the inperium jaghatais chogorisian culture had psykers called storm seers which cautioned the use of such powers else daemons cause shenanigans Tbh i think something cool for jaghatai is that he unlocks his psychic powers as a sort of shaman, capable of more thoroughly banishing daemons,unleashing lightning and such. Might be cool if he can make like steeds of lightning

The Council of Nicea in the Christian Church was where religious books were either accepted or banned from the bible. Banned bible stories are called Christian apocrypha books. The Books accepted into the Bible are canonized books.

*What did he mean by this?*

@@leiferickson1494 "He" is me & what was said was meant. The rest is on you.

@@leiferickson1494 hes talking about the 2 missing primarchs, the deleted ones, tho idk if they were present in this time or got erased later

@@flabbergaster1011 They're not missing. Just redacted.

@@flabbergaster1011 Had a feeling that’s what was meant, but it just seemed too out-of-left-field for me to leave unquestioned

Uriah inflicted emotional damage on the Big E.

Well that assumes the emperor knew horus would betray the imperium and magnus would try a ritual to learn about it

It would be great for the noble shard of magnus to rejoin him and make him a conflicted character it would do the impossible and make a daemon primarch in current setting likable