TB 2 is pretty successful in conducting surveillance on Polish eastern border, but thinking it would be invulnerable to anti air defence is nothing more than wishful thinking.
In most cases however the rockets to shoot them down are equally or even more expensive when considering that an army defending against a drone attack has to deploy multiple rockets in order to increase the chance to hit a drone!
Bayraktar is like the Panzer 1&2, useful and potent at the beginning of the war, but once medium tanks became the norm on the battlefield and both sides became more mechanized they became much more limited in their usefulness.
nothing solid about this, even after the "dying hype" golf countries made the biggest drone contracts with Turkey so far, but hey, western military enthusiasts love to hate on Turkey.
I saw that Google+ / Circles icon at 10:10 and felt old instantly.. thanks :D ( 80's kid ).. As for Byraktar.. the more something gets hyped, the deeper its percieved fall once the hype is over. What i noticed in "public discussions" in my circles is that people seem to forget that byraktar is not a stealth drone, and imagine a drone not being immune to air defense (physical or electronical)...
Clickbait! Tb2 had his suprise factor. It made a great impact. It stll has value for many missions and geographies. Baykar has 3 other models after lessons learned from TB2.
I saw a lecture from a dude from the Norwegian Defence Research Institute (FFI) a while ago talking about UAVs/warfare and one could see him losing his will to live while noting that the technological half-life of these "bang-for-buck" systems could be measured in months in Ukraine due to the neck-breaking speed of development/counter development going on. (It is different from the extremely expensive ones). I think we can see similar feelings all over NATO with a reluctance to order anything but Reapers or Global Hawks. Looking at drone development, the list is stuffed with experimental models with very few put into production. It is not often we see the "Osborne Effect" in military procurement - but now we do as very few nations are ready to commit a billion Euros to something that only can pass as a child's Christmas gift in 2 months (with the explosives removed, I presume).
Price of mass production is KEY. The view that it should satisfy a child or provide a profit is NAIVE. ... - At it's best, it ought to avoid loss. - Loss of life or asset.
Thank you for this interesting recap/overview! 👍 (and for the recommended Books - the one from Nick Ryan about war in ukraine and the one about the pla navy are on my wishlist for christmas now. 😅
I am proud as a Turk. It is very useful against many organizations such as pkk, ypg, daesh. Likewise, it was quite successful against the organizations of colonial states in Africa. It was also quite successful against the armed forces of Armenia and Russia. After so much loss, countermeasures would definitely be taken. We must not forget Russia's unilateral air dominance in the Ukraine-Russia war. There is not even the slightest resistance. Moreover, TB2 now has more advanced ammunition. By using these smart munitions, it can destroy air defense systems before they reach operational range. Of course, these ammunition are not given to everyone. This ammunition is abundantly available in Turkey. TB3 will take off from the ship. With the larger unmanned aerial vehicle AKINCI, we will be able to use longer range and larger ammunition. With Kızılelma, we will be able to change the rules of the game in air wars. NATO allies will naturally be users of these systems as long as they do not support terrorist organizations. It is not damaged by these systems. On the contrary, it provides great benefits. Knowing this, states can purchase the TB2 vehicle with peace of mind. The seller is highly interactive with his product. There are constant innovations. They are very important tools for states with high threat perception, such as Poland. If your air power is moderately strong, the TB2 becomes an extremely formidable weapon.
Thank you for your always well researched and interesting content. Drone warfare scares me. I'm so glad I'm no longer in the military or in harm's way.
Baykar announced that it will produce a new engine, optical systems and electronic warfare devices for the TB-2 in the coming years with a budget of more than $300 million. In this case, its "falling out of favor" did not seem realistic to me.
@Grunfffff Not the cheapest, Chinese UAVs are cheaper. However, Baykar products are preferred by users (including those who buy from China and use them)
Ukrainians acted miraculously with every weapon they received. Aircraft are actually effective, but this depends on certain conditions. Those conditions do not exist in Ukraine. You can't expect TB2s to shoot tanks like nothing happened.
Not to mention that other drones were being modified or created as needed, as specific needs or combat environments changed. That resulted in a blistering pace of new drone development that permanently changed the face of modern combat, and is something most standard military drones just can't keep pace with. I don't think it has fallen out of favor, as much as it's just one tool in a very large and very complicated and very new toolbox. There are environments and missions where it fits in like a glove, it's just that those aren't particularly common across Ukraine at the moment.
Thank you for (this erious attempt) answering the same quesfions I've been having for the past year re Bayraktar in particular and the place drone warfare has taken in geo-political thinking.
I don't get the statement about FPVs at the end. They are a very low cost way to deliver force to targets in ways you previously couldn't. Adaptions are being made, which will in turn bring about counter adaptions. Jamming system have the same trace to source issue as radars though the counter measures aren't common yet. Active kill systems are a legitimate solution in certain environments, but unless it is a dedicated platform you can still cost effectively overwhelm it. FPVs are here to stay.
@@nathanrohde3440 fpv will go the way of the bigger drone. It's only a matter of time before they miniaturized signal detectors and jammers for the individual soldier and all vehicles.
History is rife with war kit that was groundbreaking when introduced (think Maxim MG) that are soon obsolete as war, if nothing else, stimulates invention as well as upgrades (think Mini-gun as upgraded Gatling gun). It's the cycle of life of kit.
If you put your mouse over the video thumbnail, particularly the upper half of it, a link to youtubes sponsored video information appears (sponsored videos only). Clicking the thumbnail at this time takes you to that information and not the video. Drives me nuts as the link graphic fades in so i often click a video thinking ive beat the link appearing but not actually. I dont think the video was blocked for sponsorship, just a misunderstanding, but im not the OP
@@MilitaryAviationHistory I clicked on the video to watch it, and a second or two after it started playing, the browser tab switched to a window warning about "sponsored content", with no way to go back to your video. Clicking the "back" arrow brought me back to the main RU-vid Subscriptions list, and not your video. This happened twice before I was able to watch the video normally.
That sounds like the voluntary disclaimer results in some sort of strange UI change. I haven't heard it acting up before, perhaps they made some recent changes.
If you have TB-2s, special forces, local allies and a sensible operational objective then you're good against militia type formations. Because TB-2s provide air to ground superiority that an advanced air force provides at a fraction of the cost. Actually, it's better against militias because a modern air force is a money sink if you're hunting technicals and such. *There is no militia in the world that can stand up to The Turkish wombo-combo (tb-2, spec-ops, proxies, logical war goal)*. It was never made to go against a layered air defence. Even then TB-2s can act as bait for SEAD because they are relatively expendable. And the OP skips the Operation Spring Shield? That's actually where the TB-2 shined the most. at least a quarter of Assad's armor formations were destroyed. Mostly using drones and drone directed artillery. Americans feel the need to poo poo anything other than what their MIC comes up with. We get it, you best. Continue paying 20x for things. Raytheon execs need their 7th yachts. Sure US is the global military hegemon, but take it from a guy whose nation is a former empire: time and hubris don't mix well. Nothing lasts forever.
So we are fair to say how time of manned fighter jets are over and missiles reign supreme over the battlefront? Russians lately excell in long range glide bombs which in a way are UAVs. This war has shown supremacy of UAVs, artillery, electronic warfare and surprisngly combat engineers.
Ukraine had limited amount of Bayraktar drones. TB2 is not indestructible drone. TB2 is very cheep and effective. Turkey has grate relationship with Russia and therefore Turkiye did not send anymore of this drones to Ukraine. TB2 changed course of battle in Libya, Syria, and Nagorno Karabah in Azerbaijan. It is also dominating Iraqi airspace and it is being sold to to many countries in the world. Turkiye has many more different drone types that is uses but TB2 is the 1 that is mostly talked about.
What if Bayraktar has better versions of TB-2 apart from newer and more capable TB-3 and Kizilelma than the export ones?😉 This technology is advancing and it’s easily updated to new circumstances on the battlefield.
Fall? We are literally just starting. Turkey became world's largest UCAV exporter this year. More than 40 countries are users of Turkish drones now. Kızılelma is in testing, next year it will be the first drone with an afterburning engine. First ever high performance drone fighter. Baykar meanwhile is building a factory in Ukraine and Azerbaijan, where they will produce the TB2s, so Baykar can focus on their new projects, like the world's first drone fighter, Kızılelma, or their new satellite swarm project a la Starlink on a smaller scale. TB2 wasn't ever planned to be the hero of Ukraine. It just that while western allies were sending thoughts and prayers or helmets, Turkey was sending Bayraktars to Ukraine, before the war started. TB2's exploits in the starting days of the war when everyone thought war was over before it started made huge propaganda victories for Ukraine, there's of course the tactical side of things as TB2s were instrumental in stopping the Russian advance from the north.
after watching the whole thing. good analysis. but one should add, we didn't deify TB2, other pundits did. Use of "fall" here is nothing more than clickbait imo.
@@spartancam-rs5ru you can pretty much change TR and Baykar in my comment. TB2s make up bulk of our drone exports still. I've been following Chris for years, I think his views are spot on on the public perception. but tactics don't care about public perception. there's no other drone like TB2, that's why it is still the best selling UCAV in the world. It's not falling, if anything, it's being now updated and changed with TB3 instead.
@@TheKurtkapan34Selçuk Bayraktar made a $6.2 billion deal with many countries just the other day. The main sales product is TB2! The countries that buy it are not stupid, because this drone is cost-effective and has proven itself in various wars.
Nice video! So all innovative arms or tactics in the very beginning they mostly win ( blitzkrieg, Roman legions, Alexander's falanx, etc ) when they have time later or they analyze them a lot, they found their week spots or counter measures and they suffer a lot like byractar drones had, that's a history fact! Something similar happened also with this drone! Against a week opponent like Armenian army or in the beginning of war in Ukraine when everything was a mess, Russians expecting an easy "victory" it worked good! But when the Russian lines became solid no hope for such a drone, Russians found out the proper "signature" in their radars and then they were like flying sitting ducks! I assume they needed a complete secure environment to work in safe mode! Electronic jammers in its way smaller drones searching in advance in front of them etc etc ! Now as we saw in Israel Hezbolach war, there has to be a drone not so small not so big and following an unguarded close to earth path to find its target ( Netanyahu house)or smaller easy to make and not so costly in mass to work as a guided missile ( now in Ukraine)! Israel and not only, is working fast to find an answer ! In Ukraine they have jammers or nets or shotguns or drone against drone or geparts etc! But still not something permanent! The future fears me a lot, not to become like the movie "terminator" with Arnold Svatzeneger! We are now in the era of joystick 🕹 until we found something else, time will show us the path! "ΠΌΛΕΜΟΣ ΠΑΤΉΡ ΠΆΝΤΩΝ" war is the father of everything! As ancient Greek said! Nick from South Crete-Greece!
A single strike, is just the visual part of a system. As most of it is not visual. Hidden or reside in software battle status, and target information...
Any drone of that size that isn't stealth is just an easy target for intact and well equipped air defense (not to mention electronic warfare). The TB2 is a nice budget option for air support against foes with compromised or non-existent air defense, but it was never going to stand up to S300s and MANPADS. Stuff like the Shahed-136 is successful because it's so cheap and simple that they're highly expendable but still enough of a threat that you want to shoot them down. FPV drones are even more of an extreme here, because they're way cheaper to produce than to shoot down with anything currently operational in substantial numbers. The TB2 had its hayday before Russia got its air defense back together during the 2022 invasion. That period didn't last long.
but do you want to use a 50000 dollar missile interceptor to take out a 500 dollar drone? to effectively counter drone u need point defence system as point defence like AA gun or AA laser are cheap enough to fire at drone. you can't really relie on area defence system, the interceptor that give these system range, is too expensive.
that's the thing though, majority of countries on earth don't have "intact and well equipped air defense". Armenians did have an intact and well equipped but old air defence network. TB2s and Harops mopped the floor with them.
Turkey Drones were great for NATO in Ukraine but since Turkey is joining the BRICS block suddenly I hear Turkey Drones are no good anymore. Western media is so hypocritical . US and NATO countries think the rest of the world population is stupid 😅 😂
I'm pretty sure you're an idiot after reading that comment. I certainly don't think the world is stupid, just you. Especially for thinking most of the planet thinks about Turkey at all, let alone cares about what they're proud of.
Drones of this variety are heavily dependent on how quickly other types of drones are adapted by the rest of the world. Long range, higher payload, but slow and vulnerable to even a competent 60-70s NATO/Warsaw Pact air defense and FPV drones. In a vacuum superior to standard aviation. Can you detect and out range it? The Armenians couldn't.
Why did it fall out of favor after destroying hundreds of Russian tanks, ground vehicles, and air defense systems? After a $4-5 million UAV caused billions of dollars in casualties to the enemy and completely stopped the mighty Russian army at the beginning of the war, why is it no longer the favorite of the war? And why are countries still lining up to buy this drone? Just this month, BAYRAKTAR signed sales deals worth $6.2 billion. Isn't this ironic? Are the countries that signed these deals stupid? Or are those who expect a $4-5 million weapon to be invincible and to destroy an entire army single-handedly stupid? 4-5 years ago, Turkey sent 20 TB2 swarms in retaliation for the killing of 36 Turkish soldiers by Assad's forces in Syria with artillery fire, and within 24 hours, it leveled hundreds of Syrian tanks, aircraft, artillery, headquarters, Russian-provided air defense systems, and hundreds of Syrian targets. I've also seen videos of it hunting down a bunch of Pantsir and other air defense systems. In my opinion, it is a drone that does much more than its price.
All larger drones are vulnerable to air defense systems in the area. A modern military would have little issues shooting down an RQ-8 as long as they could detect it. It works great on terrorists.
Attempt of trying to degrade Bayraktar TB2 ain't gonna work. It keeps killing the tanks, boats, helicopters, bunkers, installations with affordable price.
In the right operational conditions, absolutely :) The main armament options may struggle a bit with an outright kill on tanks and higher end bunkers due to a lower yield but could certainly inflict a mobility kills on the former.
China produces 10 million fpv drones... Ukraine use a million fpv drones... (annualised) China can equip 10 Ukrainian army... i don't see Bayraktar as ineffective, its just not of the same scale. with only a few 100 unit, it doesn't have the impact of a million fpv drones. China has a switchblade like drone system, but its fired from vehicle, each vehicle carry several dozen drone. a company of these chinese drone carriers can fire 1000 drone in 30 minutes. each company can provide enough drone support for a battalion. that's the future of warfare. watching the ukraine war make me realise how behind NATO and Russia are to China. China is already ahead.
You are wrong, like every European. The Turkish army is not shooting Kurds, it is shooting the terrorist PKK, which Europe has declared a terrorist organization but supports with money and weapons and kills innocent people. In this video, you are making propaganda for a terrorist organization by saying that Turks are killing Kurds. Please be more careful and do not comment without knowledge.
Bayraktar TB 2, or other drones of Bayraktar are top notches. They are selling it like hot cakes. It works pretty well, as it was intendet. Look how Europeans are struggeling to build military drones. TB 2 were just the first one......your views on that topic are wrong, and reflects poor jealousy. What you try to tell us, "If we can't achieve it, others definitely can't." TRE. / Germany
the title might be a tad clickbait but his analysis is on point. your comment is not of quality. offer some counter-arguments if you want to criticize not your preconceived notions about non-Turks.
It is a very weak information bundle intellectually. You are eager to make money by making videos, okay. But you should work much more carefully. Examples: Turkey was a guarantor state regarding Cyprus. And it intervened in Cyprus with the guarantor authority. England was a guarantor and so was Greece. They, as expected, turned a blind eye to the cruelty of one group against another. Because the ones who were massacred were Turks. Turkey would not turn a blind eye and had the guarantor right to 'intervene'. Example 2. Russia had years to prepare for TB2. It did not have the ability to adapt quickly in the Ukraine war as it was thought. They struggled for a very long time. Also, Ukraine had a limited number of TB2s, although they used them wonderfully and managed to stop the invasion. Example 3. TB2 has come a long way since then. It was the first weapon that could perform automatic rollover maneuvers. In other words, its new models were able to evade air defense missiles under certain conditions.
Why worry about north Koreans army in Russia American army in Germany,hypocrites Germany army in Poland British army is Poland or Germany l stand yo be corrected, hypocrisy Western double standards always
The Turkish engineers working in the industry are very determined to surpass all other competitors. I personally attribute the recent successes of the industry to this collective ambition.
Success or rather a marketing hype usefull for propaganda back then ? At the end a sudden death and who would be so stupid to buy one today ? Hisbollah or Iran maybe and of cause North Korea but who else ? At the end a blown up model air plane remotely operated without any AI or sophisticated systems. If it would be a real success like those german WW2 whatsoever weapons that it would have been copied, copied like the jerry can, the MG42 and its successors. I have not heard about that except increasing sales based on turkish reports but who would accept a delivery of a drone that the russians had demystified and destroyed quite easily? And far worse: The turkish did not have superior answers like an updated or upgraded version more agile or less visible or lot faster or even at least a plan and vision of a successor cause in the real world marketing would start to reuse the name like seen with Tiger I and Tiger II before the hype would be gone. But nothing except what you had emphasized: silence Looks like a flying bomb, buzz bomb or V1 - short lived and limited success maybe in an important phase of the war and for sure with an as important live war footage the public needs to get a recognition.
