@@badlaamaurukehu One bite will keep a grown man full for a day....how many did you eat? 7 🤣. Yes I know it's not exactly correct but at work not at home so can't exactly quote
It's often the difference of you that determines good or bad!!! Like the Riders of Rohan in this situation would be considered the bad guys cuz they were tyrannical towards these people! But they might have done it for a reason I'm not up on the subject enough to know.
So pleased you made this video Yoystan. The men of Dunland only got one scene in the films but if I remember correctly they were present at Helms Deep on the books.
I always dig the idea of Orcs and evil men working together. Orc: Finally, manflesh! Dunlender: Hey hey hey! That's my brother you're eating! Orc: Oh, sorry Steve. Dunlender: It's fine Grok...
Orc: Meats back on the menu boys Dunlending: Again Grok? Seriously we've talked about this you can't just eat your allies Orc: Shit sorry Steve won't happen again Dunlending: Huhh it's fine Grok....
Well Orcs and Men had been working together back in the days of Morgoth :) "Elves or Men, became ever harder and more perilous. For as is elsewhere told, Morgoth broke his pledges to the Easterlings that had served him, and he denied to them the rich lands of Beleriand which they had coveted, and be drove away these evil folk into Hithlum, and there commanded them to dwell. And though they loved Morgoth no longer, they served him still in fear, and hated all the Elven-folk; and they despised the remnant of the House of Hador (the aged and women and children, for the most part), and they oppressed them, and wedded their women by force, and took their lands and goods, and enslaved their children. Orcs came and went about the land as they would, pursuing the lingering Elves into the fastnesses of the mountains, and taking many captive to the mines of Angband to labour as the thralls of Morgoth." ... "Thus it came to pass that the Elves forsook the caves of Androth, and Tuor went with them. But their enemies kept watch upon their dwellings, and were soon aware of their march; and they had not gone far from the hills into the plain before they were assailed by a great force of Orcs and Easterlings, and they were scattered far and wide, fleeing into the gathering night." Tuor who spend three years as a slave to Easterling chieftain Lorgan, apparently had enough time in slavery to learn orc tongue so the cooperation between those must have been quite regular: "But Tuor held on. He had learned enough of the tongue of the Orcs in his captivity to know the meaning of those cries: the watchers had scented them and heard ..."
To be honest I get the impression that one of the reasons Tolkien created the dunlendings was actually to show that as all good versus all evil it wasn’t so clean cut, after all with how they were treated they had every right to be angry. I think we’re meant to sympathise with them a bit like the Haradrim and Easterlings
Theyre not evil. They took the side of an evil wizard, but theyre not "evil" on an individual level. They happened to be enemies of Rohan, but warring peoples is a part of regular human life even in middle earth.
@@isitnotwrittenthat1680 I mean can you really blame them? They got forced out of their lands and are hunted by the Rohirrim (though I'd imagine this is more tit for tat attacks than actual malicious extermination.) The dunlendings probably knew on some level Saruman was evil; they just had no other choice.
@@rhorynotmylastname7781 that's basically my point albeit expanded. They'd no fondness for orcs and wargs, but no desire to fail at joining an assault on rohan with the oathbreaker
Drinking game: Take shot every time Yosten says "Dunlending." Great work. I love to hear from these people. MERP showed them pretty much ancient Celts.
@@MenoftheWest IIRC the Dunlending sourcebooks cover is pretty much taken from/inspired by Osprey Men-at-Arms Celts book. Chariot riding nobles and stuff.
The couple of scenes in the movies where they appeared always left a marking impression on me as a kid,it made me understand the war was not as easy as I understood it up to that point, a war of " evil orcs and other beasts vs good men, elves and dwarves",but rather something more historically and culturally complexed . It even made me feel a little bad both for those ragged looking Hill Men given their current living state and how they went from the first inhabitants of the area to literally living in harsh remote hills as a pre metal civilization, as well as for the insanity of men killing men in this universe of course. And all of that in a couple of scenes.
There was probably a degree of intermarriage and mixing of cultures that neither side wanted to admit by time of WOR given Gamling’s comments at Helm’s Deep and the fact that he could understand their language. Very entertaining content as usual!
I can see myself as one of those "out-of-place" people very easily. I even have a story idea about a mixed-blooded soldier in Aragorn's forces, and the struggle he has for respect both during and after the conflict, even from Rohirrim who fought at his side.
@@TheSaneHatter It's actually noted that some of the indigenous people from before Númenorean settlement still live in South Gondor, and are loyal citizens despite their non-Númenorean blood. They're even described as "swarthy".
Well Tolkien says as much: Rohirrim had some intermarriages with Dunlendings (Wulf son of Freca being primarily example, he also claimed descent from king of Rohan but also had dunlending blood). "Beyond the Gap the land between Isen and Adorn was nominally part of the realm of Rohan; but though Folcwine had reclaimed it, driving out the Dunlendings that had occupied it, the people that remained were largely of mixed blood, and their loyalty to Edoras was weak: the slaying of their lord, Freca, by King Helm was still remembered. Indeed at this time [the War of the Ring] they were more disposed to side with Saruman, and many of their warriors had joined Saruman's forces.... [Author's note.]" Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 5, The Battles of the Fords of Isen: Notes, Note 4 ... The region between Isen and Adorn was declared to be a part of the realm of Eorl at the time of the Oath of Cirion and Eorl.... Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 5, The Battles of the Fords of Isen: Notes, Note 4 ... "The Uruks... were driving [the Riders] towards the now hostile country of the Dunlendish "west-march." Unfinished Tales, Part 3, Ch 5, The Battles of the Fords of Isen Before Rohan was founded Calenardhon region had also many numenorean inhabitants, while Dunlendings were merely colonizing the land that Dunedain were withdrawing from: "Calenardhon, never densely populated had been devastated by the Dark Plague of 1636, and thereafter steadily denuded of inhabitants of Númenórean descent by migration to Ithilien and lands nearer Anduin. Isengard remained a personal possession of the Stewards, but Orthanc itself became deserted, and eventually it was closed and its keys removed to Minas Tirith. If Beren the Steward considered the Stone at all when he gave these to Saruman, he probably thought that it could be in no safer hands than those of the head of the Council opposed to Sauron." Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 3, The Palantíri "So it proved. In the reign of King Déor (2699 to 2718) the Rohirrim found that to keep a watch on the Fords was not enough. Since neither Rohan nor Gondor gave heed to this far corner of the realm, it was not known until later what had happened there. The line of the Gondorian chieftains of Angrenost had failed, and the command of the fortress passed into the hands of a family of the people. These, as has been said, were already long before of mixed blood, and they were now more friendly disposed to the Dunlendings than to the "wild Northmen" who had usurped the land; with Minas Tirith far away they no longer had any concern. After the death of King Aldor, who had driven out the last of the Dunlendings and even raided their lands in Enedwaith by way of reprisal, the Dunlendings unmarked by Rohan but with the connivance of Isengard began to filter into northern Westfold again, making settlements in the mountain glens west and east of Isengard and even in the southern eaves of Fangorn. In the reign of Déor they became openly hostile, raiding the herds and studs of the Rohirrim in Westfold. It was soon clear to the Rohirrim that these raiders had mot crossed the Isen either by the Fords or at any point far south of Isengard, for the Fords were guarded. * Déor therefore led an expedition northwards, and was met by a host of Dunlendings. These he overcame; but he was dismayed to find that Isengard was also hostile. Thinking that he had relieved Isengard of a Dunlendish siege, he sent messengers to its Gates with words of good will, but the Gates were shut upon them and the only answer they got was by bowshot. As was later known, the Dunlendings, having been admitted as friends, had seized the Ring of Isengard, slaying the few survivors of its ancient guards who were not (as were most) willing, to merge with the Dunlendish fold. Déor sent word at once to the Steward in Minas Tirith (at that time, in the year 2710, Egalmoth), but he was unable to send help, and the Dunlendings remained in occupation of Isengard until, reduced by the great famine after the Long Winter (2758-9) they were starved out and capitulated to Fréaláf (afterwards first King of the Second Line). But Déor had no power to storm or besiege Isengard, and for many years the Rohirrim had to keep a strong force of Riders in the north of Westfold; this was maintained until the great invasions of 2758. *" ... "But during the Watchful Peace (from 2063 to 2460) the people of Calenardhon dwindled: the more vigorous, year by year, went eastward to hold the line of the Anduin; those that remained became rustic and far removed from the concerns of Minas Tirith. The garrisons of the forts were not renewed, and were left to the care of local hereditary chieftains whose subjects were of more and more mixed blood. For the Dunlendings drifted steadily and unchecked over the Isen. Thus it was, when the attacks on Gondor from the East were renewed, and Orcs and Easterlings overran Calenardhon and besieged the forts, which would not have long held out. Then the Rohirrim came, and after the victory of Eorl on the Field of Celebrant in the year 2510 his numerous and warlike people with great wealth of horses swept into Calenardhon, driving out or destroying the eastern invaders. Cirion the Steward gave them possession of Calenardhon, which was thenceforth called the Riddermark, or in Gondor Rochand (later Rohan). The Rohirrim at once began the settlement of this region, though during the reign of Eorl their eastern bounds along the Emyn Muil and Anduin were still under attack. But under Brego and Aldor the Dunlendings were rooted out again and driven away beyond the Isen, and the Fords of Isen were guarded. Thus the Rohirrim earned the hatred of the Dunlendings, which was not appeased until the return of the King, then far off in the future. Whenever the Rohirrim were weak or in trouble the Dunlendings renewed their attacks."
@@TheSaneHatter It's LotR, Book V, Chapter I, as Gandalf and Pippin pass the Rammas Echor. "There dwelt a hardy folk between the mountains and the sea. They were reckoned men of Gondor, yet their blood was mingled, and there were short and swarthy folk among them whose sires came more from the forgotten men who housed in the shadows of the hills in the Dark Years ere the coming of the kings."
The Dunlendings are a people that I've always felt great sympathy for, much more than for Tolkien's strutting, arrogant Rohirrim. Particularly so, since "The Tolkien Encyclopedia" suggested that the Dunlendings were civilized once, building cities like Dunharrow, but now repeated misfortunes had reduced them to poverty and barbarism. As you rightly concede, they were driven from every home they ever had by people who behaved abominably besides, with the Dunedain ruining the forests and the Rohirrim hunting the Woses whom the Dunlendings seem to have known well (e.g. the Pukel-men at Dunharrow). Frankly, the Dunlendings have no reason to trust their enemies in the slightest, a thing Erkenbrand forgets in his "mercy," the tone of which showed neither remorse nor humility. I don't see how peace was ever achieved without massive reform and compensation to the Dunlendings, for their grievances were both legitimate and extensive. The best ideas I can think of, are that maybe Aragorn allowed them to move back to their old homelands in Arnor, and/or absorbed Dunland into the North-Kingdom. Only by removing the two peoples from contact, and further making war between them illegal via alliance, could the wars begin to end, but there must still have been bad blood for generations afterward. In any case, everyone please forgive my multiple posts on the many threads here: I've given this issue a disproportionate amount of thought, and find myself with far too much to say.
@@qwertyTRiG Possibly, but it may not have been a *conscious* one, as public debate wasn't phrased in those terms yet. Also remember that Numenor's story was modeled directly on the Atlantic legend, which included those elements millennia before.
Truth be told both Dunlendings and Rohirrim are equally guilty, Dunlendings were attacking Rohirrim and Rohirrim were attacking in retaliation. As for the Men of the Mountains who build structures in Dunharrow, those were actually more like related but separate culture, Dunledings themselves are only a portion of the earlier people, Gwathuirim who settled in Dunland highlands, also Men of Bree-land are related to those as well but in the end became separate and friendly with the Dunedain and subjects of the kings of Arnor, the Men of the Mountains most likely also persecuted the Druedain/Woses/Drugs. Men of the Mountains also once made an alliance and had peace with the Dunedain/Numenorean folk but they betrayed Isildur. "Calenardhon, never densely populated had been devastated by the Dark Plague of 1636, and thereafter steadily denuded of inhabitants of Númenórean descent by migration to Ithilien and lands nearer Anduin. Isengard remained a personal possession of the Stewards, but Orthanc itself became deserted, and eventually it was closed and its keys removed to Minas Tirith. If Beren the Steward considered the Stone at all when he gave these to Saruman, he probably thought that it could be in no safer hands than those of the head of the Council opposed to Sauron." Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 3, The Palantíri "So it proved. In the reign of King Déor (2699 to 2718) the Rohirrim found that to keep a watch on the Fords was not enough. Since neither Rohan nor Gondor gave heed to this far corner of the realm, it was not known until later what had happened there. The line of the Gondorian chieftains of Angrenost had failed, and the command of the fortress passed into the hands of a family of the people. These, as has been said, were already long before of mixed blood, and they were now more friendly disposed to the Dunlendings than to the "wild Northmen" who had usurped the land; with Minas Tirith far away they no longer had any concern. After the death of King Aldor, who had driven out the last of the Dunlendings and even raided their lands in Enedwaith by way of reprisal, the Dunlendings unmarked by Rohan but with the connivance of Isengard began to filter into northern Westfold again, making settlements in the mountain glens west and east of Isengard and even in the southern eaves of Fangorn. In the reign of Déor they became openly hostile, raiding the herds and studs of the Rohirrim in Westfold. It was soon clear to the Rohirrim that these raiders had mot crossed the Isen either by the Fords or at any point far south of Isengard, for the Fords were guarded. * Déor therefore led an expedition northwards, and was met by a host of Dunlendings. These he overcame; but he was dismayed to find that Isengard was also hostile. Thinking that he had relieved Isengard of a Dunlendish siege, he sent messengers to its Gates with words of good will, but the Gates were shut upon them and the only answer they got was by bowshot. As was later known, the Dunlendings, having been admitted as friends, had seized the Ring of Isengard, slaying the few survivors of its ancient guards who were not (as were most) willing, to merge with the Dunlendish fold. Déor sent word at once to the Steward in Minas Tirith (at that time, in the year 2710, Egalmoth), but he was unable to send help, and the Dunlendings remained in occupation of Isengard until, reduced by the great famine after the Long Winter (2758-9) they were starved out and capitulated to Fréaláf (afterwards first King of the Second Line). But Déor had no power to storm or besiege Isengard, and for many years the Rohirrim had to keep a strong force of Riders in the north of Westfold; this was maintained until the great invasions of 2758. *" ... "But during the Watchful Peace (from 2063 to 2460) the people of Calenardhon dwindled: the more vigorous, year by year, went eastward to hold the line of the Anduin; those that remained became rustic and far removed from the concerns of Minas Tirith. The garrisons of the forts were not renewed, and were left to the care of local hereditary chieftains whose subjects were of more and more mixed blood. For the Dunlendings drifted steadily and unchecked over the Isen. Thus it was, when the attacks on Gondor from the East were renewed, and Orcs and Easterlings overran Calenardhon and besieged the forts, which would not have long held out. Then the Rohirrim came, and after the victory of Eorl on the Field of Celebrant in the year 2510 his numerous and warlike people with great wealth of horses swept into Calenardhon, driving out or destroying the eastern invaders. Cirion the Steward gave them possession of Calenardhon, which was thenceforth called the Riddermark, or in Gondor Rochand (later Rohan). The Rohirrim at once began the settlement of this region, though during the reign of Eorl their eastern bounds along the Emyn Muil and Anduin were still under attack. But under Brego and Aldor the Dunlendings were rooted out again and driven away beyond the Isen, and the Fords of Isen were guarded. Thus the Rohirrim earned the hatred of the Dunlendings, which was not appeased until the return of the King, then far off in the future. Whenever the Rohirrim were weak or in trouble the Dunlendings renewed their attacks." ... "Alien, too, or only remotely akin, was the language of the Dunlendings. These were a remnant of the peoples that had dwelt in the vales of the White Mountains in ages past. The Dead Men of Dunharrow were of their kin. But in the Dark Years others had removed to the southern dales of the Misty Mountains; and thence some had passed into the empty lands as far north as the Barrow-downs. From them came the Men of Bree; but long before these had become subjects of the North Kingdom of Arnor and had taken up the Westron tongue. Only in Dunland did Men of this race hold to their old speech and manners: a secret folk, unfriendly to the Dunedain, hating the Rohirrim." In the end it's all part of long cycle, ancestors of the Men of the White Mountains persecuted the Druedain: "[Historians] in Gondor believed that the first Men to cross the Anduin were indeed the Drúedain. They came (it was believed) from lands south of Mordor, but before they reached the coasts of Harad they turned north into Ithilien, and eventually finding a way across the Anduin (probably near Cair Andros) settled in the vales of the White Mountains and the wooded lands at their northern feet. "They were a secretive people, suspicions of other kinds of Men [by] whom they had been harried and persecuted as long as they could remember, and they had wandered west seeking a land where the could be hidden and have peace." Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 1, The Drúedain: Further Notes on the Drúedain ... "did not cross the Isen nor take refuge in the great promontory between Isen and Lefnui that formed the north arm of the Bay of Belfalas, because of the "Púkel-men," who were a secret and fell people, tireless and silent hunters, using poisoned darts. They said that they had always been there, and had former lived also in the White Mountains. In ages past they had paid no heed to the Great Dark One (Morgoth), nor did they later ally themselves with Sauron; for they hated all invaders from the East. From the East, they said, had come the tall Men who drove them from the White Mountains, and they were wicked at heart. Maybe even in the days of the War of the Ring some of the Drû-folk lingered in the mountains of Andrast, the western outlier of the White Mountains, but only the remnant in tin woods of Anórien were known to the people of Gondor. Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 1, The Drúedain: Further Notes on the Drúedain
@@fantasywind3923 So the Rohirrim were like Rome's Foederati, granted land in a tenuously controlled border region by a distant emperor, and not 17th century colonists.
@@ingold1470 more or less, yeah, additionally one can find a parallel between them and the Varangian guard of the Byzantine turned into a 'realm' of their own (Tolkien once even stated that Minas Tirith is a Byzantine city, Rohirrim are also part of the Northmen of Rhovanion who are culturally pretty much like real world Norsemen/viking-like warriors :)). In any case initially Calenardhon had some Numenorean/Gondorian inhabitants as part of the province of the kingdom on the fringes of it, they received this land in a grant by Ruling Steward Cirion etc.
Another amazing video. I wish has more money so I could donate. The fact that you're so kind and positive clearly comes across in your videos. I have a lot going on in my personal life (don't we all right now) and these videos really do mean a lot and help me thru my week
Thanks for the love Elizabeth, it is returned right back to you! The fact that you watch is support enough, and any donations beyond are icing on the cake! Please hang in there, there is a hope beyond all dread and problems, my friend!
How everywhere feels when mega corporations slurp up everything worse than robber barons of a century ago. Not just the physical but the byproducts and data. You are a number to them and it has a currency sign on front of it.
... so the Dúnedain would represent the receding Roman Empire, the Dunlendings the unexpectedly left behind Romano-Britons and the Rohirrim the invading Germanic newcomers?
As always without ANY EXCEPTION great video! Your channel is number one on the legendary of Middle Earth! Not taking anything away from the other good ones I just love the way your videos are done and the narration that you put into it is what kicks it in the number one spot for me!! Also the fact that I can't think of anything I would do different. Thanks Yoyston!!!
You know the granting of Calenarthon to the Eotheods is described by a moving scene, oaths are taken at Elendil's grave and affectionate words are exchanged, but with this background info I gathered through this nice video - thank you for that 🙂 - casts a new light on it. Now it appears to be realpolitik in the sense of: "I formally but not actually own this fruitful piece of land that was depopulated by plague and now hosts hostile folk. I give you my blessing in conquering it for your people if you agree to a long-term war alliance. (You know, you probably already know that Gondor has more hostile neighbours and longer frontlines then the province I promised you yet I expect to be conquered by the blood of your people. Altough I honour our friendship, chances are Gondor will receive more often military aid from Rohan than the other way around)."
The Numenorians come out of the west: Wow, look at all these vast, fertile lands! These shall form the foundations of the new homes of our people and kingdoms! The Native Hillmen: But...this is our land, for our people. The Numenorians: *DID WE F**KING STUTTER???*
@@MenoftheWest I always wondered what Ar-Pharazon's massive ship would look like. It was described as being like a castle in the sea. I have not seen any drawings or paintings of it.
Numenoreans: We'll call that Arnor and that Gondor. Look at all the open land! Dunlanders: We call that the cold north and that place is where we live. Oh, and the Duredain live in those lands. Numenoreans: Open land and now it's all ours! Dunlanders: ....um. no. We liv... Numenoreans: hey barbarians, submit to our rule or face our blades! Dunlanders: And they wonder why we don't like visitors.
@@shadowofchaos8932 hehe this reminds me of Tal-Elmar story: "Base and unlovely thou namest us. Truly, maybe. Yet true is it also that thy folk are cruel, and lawless, and the friends of demons. Thieves are they. For our lands are ours from of old, which they would wrest from us with their bitter blades. White skins and bright eyes are no warrant for such deeds.' 'Are they not?' said she. 'Then neither are thick legs and wide shoulders. Or by what means did ye gain these lands that ye boast of? Are there not, as I hear men say, wild folk in the caves of the mountains, who once roamed here free, ere ye swart folk came hither and hunted them like wolves?"
Because the recent ice/snow storms gave me ample time to read, I had this little beauty of a video waiting for me. Thank you so much, it made me forget about my 12-hour shift, which ended a half hour ago.
Man another group of Middle Earth I need to lookup more in My Spare Time, that were in the Books but not the Movies... Another Video Uploaded Early, *It Must be my Birthday (No It isn't)* But I am glad this one is early because I have my Uni Orientation soon, in 2 Hours so Thanks, Mellon!!! Thanks for making me learn about things in Middle Earth I have never hear much of, *I am learning new things everyday!!! Thank You, Mellon!!!* Until those Dreaded 3 Kinslayings: 1st Age Edition...Marion Baggins Out...Preparing for UNI!!! P.s I Might have Accidently Deleted this comment instead of posting it... *Opps Bit Late*
I have a theory that some of the ancestors of Dunlendings could be people from the House of Beor. Specifically, the ones that left Estolad under Bereg leadership after the council that was held. "Bereg was the son of Baranor and a great-grandson of Bëor the Old. He led the unrest of Men at their camps at Estolad. In F.A. 369 he led a thousand Men of the House of Bëor away southwards out of Beleriand. His and his followers' fate is not known, but they reached Eriador." This was an interesting event as it was discussed in this council if Men are supposed to join in the war against Morgoth. Some, like Bereg, felt that they have been tricked and instead of fleeing the Shadow they came to her doorstep. They didn't want anything to do with the Noldor or help the Elves in their cause believing that Elves gave them lands merely to use them as a shield against Angband. There is also an interesting character called Amlach that was falsely accused of being the most vocal in the unrest. After the council, though, it was discovered that Amlach had not even been present, and the speaker had been an emissary of Morgoth that had taken on his form.
Great work! As always. I lost it the first time I read about Helm Hammerhand lol The literal meaning of the name, and this punch that came out of nowhere :) And then the sweat rumors of his cannibalism :)
That is a really great question, I pondered the same thing. I think they had more relation to them than the Men of Gondor did, but were still quite removed. The Drúedain were also related to the Men of Haleth I believe.
@@MenoftheWest The Woses and the Haladin *were* known to live at close quarters to each other, and got along fairly well. And I often wondered whether the Dunlendings were united in one cause as a people anyway, lacking any king that we know of, so having some on the "right" side is not unreasonable to me.
I think that more likely ancestors of the Dunlendings and Druedain drifted apart, Haladin were once close with the Drugs/Druedain, but in the mortal lands of Middle-earth after countless generations such friendships could wane and over time become forgotten, it seems the Gwathuirim (who we can say are true predecessors of the Dunlendings of Third Age) were rather fearful of the Druedain and the Druedain in turn wanted to hide being persecuted by other kinds of men for long: "The fellings had at first been along both banks of the Gwathló, and timber had been floated down to the haven (Lond Daer); but now the Númenóreans drove great tracks and roads into the forests northwards and southwards from the Gwathló, and the native folk that survived fled from Minhiriath into the dark woods of the great Cape of Eryn Vorn, south of the mouth of the Baranduin, which they dared not cross, even if they could, for fear of the Elvenfolk. From Enedwaith they took refuge in the eastern mountains where afterwards was Dunland; they did not cross the Isen nor take refuge in the great promontory between Isen and Lefnui that formed the north arm of the Bay of Belfalas [Ras Morthil or Andrast: see p. 224, note 6, because of the "Púkel-men".... [For the continuation of this passage see p. 400.]" Pukel-men is of course other term of the Druedain (also known as Woses or Drugs) so it seems the Gwathuirim feared the Woses of Druwaith Iaur: The "Púkel-men" occupied the White Mountains (on both sides) in the First Age. When the occupation of the coastlands by the Númenóreans began in the Second Age they survived in the mountains of the promontory [of Andrast], which was never occupied by the Númenóreans. Another remnant survived at the eastern end of the range [in Anórien]. At the end of the Third Age the latter, much reduced in numbers, were believed to be the only survivors; hence the other region was called "the Old Púkel-wilderness" (Drúwaith Iaur). It remained a "wilderness" and was not inhabited by Men of Gondor or of Rohan, and was seldom entered by any of them; but Men of the Anfalas believed that some of the old "Wild Men" still lived there secretly. Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 1, The Drúedain: Further Notes on the Drúedain ... [Historians] in Gondor believed that the first Men to cross the Anduin were indeed the Drúedain. They came (it was believed) from lands south of Mordor, but before they reached the coasts of Harad they turned north into Ithilien, and eventually finding a way across the Anduin (probably near Cair Andros) settled in the vales of the White Mountains and the wooded lands at their northern feet. "They were a secretive people, suspicions of other kinds of Men [by] whom they had been harried and persecuted as long as they could remember, and they had wandered west seeking a land where the could be hidden and have peace." Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 1, The Drúedain: Further Notes on the Drúedain ... "did not cross the Isen nor take refuge in the great promontory between Isen and Lefnui that formed the north arm of the Bay of Belfalas, because of the "Púkel-men," who were a secret and fell people, tireless and silent hunters, using poisoned darts. They said that they had always been there, and had former lived also in the White Mountains. In ages past they had paid no heed to the Great Dark One (Morgoth), nor did they later ally themselves with Sauron; for they hated all invaders from the East. From the East, they said, had come the tall Men who drove them from the White Mountains, and they were wicked at heart. Maybe even in the days of the War of the Ring some of the Drû-folk lingered in the mountains of Andrast, the western outlier of the White Mountains, but only the remnant in tin woods of Anórien were known to the people of Gondor. Unfinished Tales, Part 4, Ch 1, The Drúedain: Further Notes on the Drúedain
Great video, ive watched almost every single video on this channel, and I was waiting on this video. You Guys does a incredible job! Now some info nobody asked for the fact that in Australia there are 48 million Kangaroos and in Uruguay there are 3,457,380 inhabitants. So if the Kangaroos decide to invade Uruguay, each Uruguayan will have to fight 14 kangaroos.
I imagine these men are the "Easterlings" from the Silmariliion as they are more likely to have come following the Edain into Beleriand and it was mentioned that these "Easterlings" were kin to the House of Haleth, also the names of these "Easterlings" are more a kin to the names of the Dunlandings, like Ulfang and Brodda.
@@MenoftheWest Thank you for your video and your consideration. I have heard other Tolkien lore videos suggest this too, I also find it rather odd that the very exotic Easterlings of Rhun could have been able to travel so far in that time and still be of kin to the Haleth. I feel these Easterlings are more a kin to the men the Edain had fled from in the 1st Age, that had already been swayed by Morgoth. It should also be noted that some of the 1st Age "Easterlings" remained loyal to the Elves and Edain, which I don't think would have been possible from the men of Rhun.
I'm forced to disagree: I've always imagined the Easterlings of the First Age as being vaguely Asiatic. I'd put down the similarities in names to a lack of imagination, as Tolkien knew Asian cultures far less than European ones. I have thought that the Dunlendings could easily be related to the folk of Bereg, who chose not to get involved in the War of the Jewels and turned back across the mountains.
@@counterspellgoon6854 I recommend Civilization EX, his lore videos use labelled maps and little animated characters moving across the map to better explain the events.
I think if Saruman hadnt revealed himself to Ganfalf he would have had the ring when the company passed by Isenguard. I also think when a fully powered wizard he could have convinced the Dunlendings of anything he liked with his powerful voice.
I think that's accurate! From what I can tell, they were indeed Middle Men, the Men of Twilight, as the Dúnedain called such folk. They were more native to Middle-earth, and especially those lands of Eriador and Gondor than were the Dúnedain, for they had dwelt there even in the Second and First Ages.
True tho. Why are Dunlendings always looked upon as evil or at least second-class inhabitants of Arda? They are not evil, they just want to live in peace and no one respects them. Why?
I really like dunlendings, they are really intresting and have a really awesome lore (I mean everything in the legendarium is like that but anyway) and they are a more barbaric and vikingish than the other beings on middle earth wich I find intresting that they are like the past of men of middle of but still alive.
Snow is a foot deep here in the village of Bree, my friends! If you are in the area, stop by the Prancing Pony and take a cup or two of hot mulled wine to warm up those cold hands and feet. Or perhaps a glass of brandy- I’ve been told it’s the best this side of the Brandywine River! The beef stew and lamb pies are delicious as a warming meal for cold bones. Travel safe and I’ll see you in the meeting room!
The parallel to the Dunledings in our country would be the American Indians. Like the Dunledings they were forced out of their homelands and mistreated numerous times. Anger and savagery would result in the many wars in the 1800's. Of course, Tolkien never used American models in his stories. The European or British people who had a similar pattern of being conquered and marginalized are the Celtic people of Wales, Scotland or Ireland by the Anglo-Saxons, a model for the Rohan horsemen. Ethnic resistance and resentment are sadly a universal trait.
Think you could make a video about Wulfgar? I only know him from Battle For Middle Earth mod. He looks really great and he is cool in the game he remind me of Ragnar in Vikings.
@@MenoftheWest I like that in the 'Horse-Lords of Rohan' supplement for The One Ring RPG, Dunlendings were made an Heroic Culture allowing for Dunlending heroes.
Thing is that they hated the "bad numenoreans".in the beginning they visited middle earth and taught the native people there much and enriched them.but when Numenor fell into shadow they came back as conquerors.clearing out forests for wood and erecting forts.
I have a theory video for you that you might be able to make for your channel. This is coming from a game of lord of the rings risk that I played with family a few years ago. I was playing on the side of the orcs and I ended up winning the game by capturing the ring in Moria as I happened to have kept troops there from the start of the game. This made me wonder, if the fellowship lost and died in the battle with the balrog, what would the later events of the war of the ring turn out if the balrog took the ring for itself since it was a maiar like Sauron and the wizards. Hope you consider looking into this theory as it could make some interesting event changes for Sauron and the free peoples of middle earth.
I always thought the Rohirrims were a bit unfair to the Dunlendings. They kinda « stole » their lands after all, I understand why they would not be happy about it.
Hello Yoysten! I have a theory video suggestion idea/question for you. What if Utumno could be rebuilt? What if the Valar didn't destroy the fortress completely and it became the chief stronghold for Morgoth once again, during the war of the jewels and the war of wrath? I feel like for the greatest fortress of evil, it was sadly overlooked.
“The horsemen took your lands! They drove your people into the hills to scratch a living off rocks! Take back the lands they stole from you, burn every village!!” I knew there was a history to this rivalry between Rohan and Dunlendings, but didn’t realize it went waaaaay back lol Guess every great peoples, hero’s, or country needs a nemesis🤷🏻♂️. In a way I get their anger and hatred, they were clearly taken advantage of and beaten down. But if the easterlings and southrons can eventually make peace with Gondor I’d like to think they could do the same Rohan.
Indeed while I sympathize with them for having their lands taken they should not have acted on violence rather they should have talked to the leaders before reacting to violence. Perhaps in the fourth age Aragorn will return their lands to them as he did with the Easterlings and southorns.
I think so. Although Gondor "awarded" the Rohirrim that land to live in, apparently ignoring that there were already people living there. I would like to hope that after Sauron was defeated and Aragorn became king of Gondor, restorative efforts were made to the Dunlendings and other peoples that the Numenoreans had wronged, such as the Haradrim. Part of the reason Sauron was able to get the Easterlings and Haradrim on his side was by taking advantage of their history of resentment against the Numenoreans. (And Saruman did the same with the Dunlendings' resentment against Rohan.) I do not know if Tolkien intended it, but I feel there's a moral lesson here...
I feel like the dunlendings were how colonizers react to natives but in reverse and instead of trying to befriend the numenorians they hid and made it seem like their lands were uninhabited. I think if they had spoken to the numenorians long ago they might’ve had been great allies to them and perhaps less grievances with the people of the west. Great video yoystan can’t wait for the next one!
I'm not so sure. It depends on the timing. If we're talking about Numenor when they were more faithful-leaning and generous, be it as traders or colonizers, then I could see them getting on well with the Dunlandings. If we're talking the "King's Men" era, I imagine it would be like most instances of colonizers/conquerors dealing with natives in our own history going back to the bronze age. And if it was the Numenorians by the time of Sauron's imprisonment and later promotion, then interacting with them could mean being hunted and used for a human sacrifice. Honestly, while I normally wouldn't advise this, running and hiding was probably for the best in they're case, though I imagine they at least tried to fight back a few times.
Love your videos as always hope this video is good as all your other ones the men of dundland kinda of reminds me of people that in our one history we have chase out and then they want revenge for our wrong doings anyways I bid stand men of the west
Thank you for making this video! I think it's very interesting that Tolkien chose to write it this way - I mean actually the Dunlendings had lands in Middle-Earth, and then they're suddenly driven out aggressively of the Rohirrim. To me it seems to be quite evident that the Rohirrim here did a great evil, showing that this folk which one might think was "good" wasn't really good actually. Thus, in a way I also think that Helm is not solely honorable (even if Freca surely wasn't either), being very aggressive towards the Dunlendings even if it were the Rohirrim who stole their lands, and therefore I think it a bit strange that many years later, the horn of Helm Hammerhand is supposed to be something of great honor in the Battle of Helm's Deep. At the same time, of course the Dunlendings were not always the nicest of peoples, but anyway in the conflict between Dunlendings and Rohirrm to me it seems like the Rohirrim acted quite evilly. @Men of the West, would you believe Tolkien writes the story in this way to show that men usually aren't good or bad, and that conflicts, when seen completely with their background, often are more complex than what one might have thought first (I mean someone who's just read the Lord of the Rings probably wouldn't see the Rohirrim that critically, I suppose...)?
You are absolutely right in this. Even though the heroes of the LOTR are the high Men of the West, and brave Rohirrim, and Elves of grandeur, and so forth, none of these folk were above evil, and in fact, all such folk committed evil deeds in their histories. Even some Hobbits, such as Lotho Sackville-Baggins committed evil. As Elrond says, no one is evil in the beginning, and in my mind, nor were any good in the beginning. The Rohirrim and Gondorians committed a terrible act in taking away the lands of the Dunlendings, but the Dunlendings in turn, did evil to them. It is the choice of folk to turn away from evil and do good, or vise versa.
@@MenoftheWest Yes, that is indeed true, and you‘re also right that Elrond said that. However, I’m not sure if Tolkien maybe might have argued that everyone is good in the beginning... but I am not sure. It is however a very interesting topic!
I'm of the opinion that the Dunlandings are of partial decent of the surviving Hillmen of Rhudar (whom I believe were the descendents of the Swarthy Men of the First Age). Tho, that's just speculation, and admittedly fan-fiction, as there's no writings that I am aware of that could confirm this, but still... I find it to be an interesting link to try and make, like the surviving Hillmen married and interbred with the Middlemen of Dunland, with their own culture taking over, and they tried to do the same to Rohan during Wulf's Rebellion, food for thought...
Supposedly, those who go to the Undying Lands and Valinor from the Grey Havens never return. But some people have, right? Have you made a video yet about all those who returned to Middle Earth from the Undying Lands?
In my own head canon and with the aid of Middle Earth role-playing supplements I have come to treat the dunlendings and other men of enedwaith similar to the culture and heritage of the Scottish and Irish people of our own world
Too bad we see so little of them in the movies. I mean I like what we did get but I would have liked to have seen them fight in the battle of Helm’s Deep like they did in the book.
