@@samstruyven2299 Night gathers, and now my wait begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the reader in the darkness. I am the reader on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the RR, the shield that guards the realms of readers. I pledge my life and honor to the fandom, for this night and all the nights to come.
i got to the books partly because of job :D (and to the show because of... well, Long Wait, and regret a bit; best part of the show are short clips with Tyrion and Olenna) - was looking around in our village library for smth escapist-ish but not too infantile reading and found first book of A Song of Ice and Fire. and next thing got to edit and proofread book by Carolyne Larrington, Winter Is Coming, its translation into Estonian. what needed knowledge about the books, but enough about show from wikia and youtube and such. so, practically i was paid for reading long nice terrific books. this job has its moments, one must admit. :)
Mr. Fear haha. If the books were done it would be a good idea. This fat old man will never finish the books. Don’t waste time you could use in something more productive.
because of the show, the books are so popular, Martin made so much money thanks to massive popularity of show, before the show only book clubs community know it
What you say, in a mistery genre, is fucking great. In epic fantasy the endings are pretty standard (hero kills dragon/evil lord/dark magician) and predictable. What's important is the journey, the way how we get to that predictable ending. Most epic fantasy stories have this destiny setting, making it totally predictable
@@gassx7778 yeah, fuck that, i'm wondering why Jon would take the black again when the Nightward is fockin demolished and the meaning lost after the last chapter. Seeing him going full construction worker bricking the wall would be much more interesting. And Brann needing a council would be much like humanity needing a second head or a dick in the right knee
@@blake343 What closure do you want? Life keeps going, the young replace the old, they make it better or not, maybe they even make a Republic, another conceited asshole pops, maybe this generation, more probably the next generation who don't know shit about the NK, more wars, rinse and repeat. Like History itself. Or is it more about wanting to assign a sit to everyone? Give Tyrion his whorehouse and fully assorted bar, give Sansa the North, give Brann his own tree, let Arya finish her list, if there's still someone, give Bronn his castle, give Sam his house near his happy library with his nice wife and not his child. There, closure. The throne should be important as a tool to unite all those who survived the most chaotic moment of their lives and it should been occupied by someone shown to be a true leader in a moment of crisis, a true king, not a fockin prize for a bloody bet between a lot of salty bitches. And let me tell you, i haven't seen a fockin true king in all the series. Hell, we can even make the NK as something cyclic, something that pops every X years, because winter, a champion blessed by the Others god to wage war
If only we lived in an alternate timeline wherein George finished the books before GoT wrapped up we could have completed one of the best TV series of all time properly
I personally don't think the show's ability to properly end the GoT story depended on whether GRRM finished the books up before they got caught up... D&D fucked it up all on their own. If only we lived in an alternate timeline where the writers cared more about a proper ending than one that's "surprising" or "unexpected"... Shame.
@@JESchomb D&D have been fucking up George's story for ages, but when they hit the beats, they hit the beats; and that's really what made GoT so fantastic. It wasn't D&D's skills at writing, it was a fantastic pre-written story coupled with big screen cinematography, acting, and score. Without GRRM it would have crashed and burned Season 1.
I bet in 10 years, once GRRM has finished it, someone will try it again. Just like Lord of the Rings and Avatar the last air bender, which are both being remade.
Well, the self-multiplying Dothraki and that moment with Dany and Drogon behind her making it look like she has a dragon/demon wings, I guess that was the alien moment. I was like ok, we got it you want to make her look like she is super mega hyper cruel now. For that to be convincing you would have needed one or two seasons more not some sad foreshadowing which is not equal to character development so please stop. Gladly they did, Daenerys personage butchering ended quite quickly Drogon melted the throne and for the rest, some clips of youtube are more than enough.
This is actually perfect for him, as the show is so out of control that when he releases the books he is the guy who knows how to do it, how to finish his own story, so people will definitely buy those.
Crow Bear that’s definitely possible, the hype will be at an all time high and the demand for the books will skyrocket as many fans won’t have the show anymore, would be the best time to sell his books
This is the belief that ALL writers need to understand. If you plant a bunch of arrows pointing towards a common end, then suddenly throw it all away and do something else. That doesn't "subvert my expectations", that's just frustrating and destroys emotional investments for the overall story.
just to add. The biggest "Subversion" this show had was the red wedding right. There were how many goddamn signs that something bad was going to happen. Robb married Talisa, Robb stopped setting up battles and stayed in Riverrun, just fucking waiting. Karstark told him this, and later Robb beheads him. Then Robb decides to go back to the twins, the house he betrayed by marrying Talisa. The red wedding was so not out of nowhere, and thats goddamn important. It subverted expectations bc it didnt follow the logic of the genre, that the hero always lives, but it most certainly followed the logic of the story internally.
CrashBOREDOM correct on the first comment about subversion. Also it could be done but you have to be a master and genius writer for it to work. Otherwise you just destroyed something that was going well for you.
There's a way to do it right. There is a way to point towards something and then subvert expectations and have something else happen, and have it be good. It's hard, and it requires a lot of skill, and even then it's a hit or miss, but it can be done right. D&D are not skilled writers. We've seen that ever since they started to run out of books to adapt.
I readed about how GRRM fighted to put Lady Heartstone in the show and losing. Lady Heartstone is Katelynn Stark revived, turning into some kind of revenge zombie, for those who don't know
@@helekarsargarian6831 Pretty sure Lady Stoneheart will give her "unlife" to the recently killed (still dead in the books Jon Snow) after she finds the truth. Because on the Mellisandre is more of a charlatan that's lucky with magic being back so strong.
Well if anything, this disaster of a TV series would only benefit him money-wise...millions of TV fans are already disappointed with Season 8...so the catch? these same people who did not read the books would now have enough reason to purchase and read the book series, as they wanna know how GRRM would end this...it's a win-win situation for GRRM...
The first full metal alchemist is way better than brotherhood. So no I don’t want see an alternate ending. Hopefully the book delivers before GRRM dies.
After watching s08e05, I understand the value of words of GRRM. Yeah the writers just change everything in this 8th season, only to make fan theories wrong.
Not sure if being sarcastic, GRRM told the writers the endings from the beginning (who killed white walker, who turned mad, who died in what way) they never changed any of these, they are all where GRRM intended, just truncated version of development
@@EndTheEnding In this case the journey matters far more than the destination. Sure GRRM told them the destinations, like which chars bites the dust. But we don't even know if the writers are following everything he told them, I highly doubt it
@@Gekkou31 the journey is wrong, but that's not what I'm saying, I'm trying to argue "S8 changed everything just to surprise people" has absolutely no basis and D&D did everything but changing the ending. There is a million ways to criticize their writing, saying they changed the ending is the least truthful one.
@@EndTheEnding Well, I was also saying we don't even know if they did the ending GRRM told them about. Maybe they did, for the most part. We'll have to see when the books comes out.... if that ever happens. The writers themselves stated they made Arya kill the Night King to surprise people because "Jon would be expected, it didn't FEEL right". So they might have changed that too. The only thing we do know, is that GRRM TOLD them the ending, it doesn't mean they will follow it faithfully, they may have been surprising us
@@Gekkou31 if you really watched the full behind the scene, they clearly said "from the beginning, we knew Arya gonna kill the night king" it is clearly GRRM's intention. Of course if Jon killed Night King it wouldn't feel right, it wouldn't feel like game of thrones at all, because game of thrones is never about classic hero defeats evil story. They had to make Arya kill night king because that fits the overarching theme and previous foreshadowings better, just as GRRM has envisioned.
@@yogdrogxon687 1:07 "But what do you do then? Do you come up with something goofy and outlandish?", like teleport Arya through a sea of white walkers and undead generals, and then make her jump ten meters in the air and then kill death itself with a parlor trick move? Or do you have a raging undead giant suddenly become interested in studying the features of humans, so a half dead child can stick them right in the pupil? Or do you kill a dragon on the open sea with a weapon that defies plausibility so flagrantly even in a world where dragons exist, it feels like a total cheat? Or do you cripple your greenseer that has the power to see the past and the future in the dumbest, most unexplainable way possible, so you reduce him to a background item, to the point that anyone would ask why is he even alive? Or do you take one of the most witty characters ever written, aka Tyrion, and turn him into an idiot playing drinking games and inquiring about people's sex lives, like some horny and not too bright teenager overrun by hormones? Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. "Sure I could have, like, aliens come down and that would certainly surprise the hell out of everybody, nobody is predicting that, but.. IT WOULD RUIN THE SERIES." Damn, well said George, only D&D managed to screw it up even worse, aliens would have seemed a smart turn of events! XD And then the coup de grace XD XD XD : 1:31 "And I think some writers do that" XD XD XD Please applaud in front of your device, even one handed, mr. Martin will know! XD R.R. Martin might as well be a greenseer himself, heck, the daddy of all green seers! Btw, if it's still unclear, George is unknowingly (or maybe he's anticipating, who knows!) foreshadowing the epic blunderbuss of a failure by the most unfunny comedic pair of show runners, time wasters and incompetents in all drop caps, aka dan weiss and david benioff, aka pair of asshats that fit the description of "some writers do that" so well, it's uncanny!; a bunch of arrogant dweebs who in spite of George's tutelage and I'm pretty sure, availability for aid and guidance, still managed to make of these last few episodes of GOT a circus of absolute pointlessness and a letdown to so many fans of this series. Especially the fans that got the most invested in the show, that paid attention to the nature of the characters,to the manner in which action and repercussion used to work, a show with fourth walls so thick, a thousand ice dragons couldn't have made a dent, in spite of all the magic and crazy turns of events. But these last few episodes were a struggle to maintain the least amount of investment, the most basic tenets of verisimilitude got shafted so badly Sansa's history of rape seems like a romantic comedy in comparison. With characters acting, not only against their own traits, fastidiously and meticulously built over the last seven seasons, but so randomly and against their own interests in ways so foreign to themselves and leaving the least attention paying viewers mouth agape at their lack of plausibility, that it defies every expectation of bad writing. ... How do you explain paper thin characters that nobody ever got to care for manage to defeat dragons at the snap of one's fingers, but supernatural, mysterious, multifaceted, slowly built characters, deeply foreshadowed and engaging are relegated to be nothing but footnotes of incompetence on Arya's list of kills? You can only explain it with this: "some writers do that"! George was a damn prophet and the dude who put this video together a damn comedic genius! Hope this clarifies things for you, No name! XD
The show devolved even before they ran out of source material. There was still enough source material for at least season 5's Sansa, Stannis, and Dorne arcs, they just didn't use it and instead made up their own bullshit.
Tarvoc true but the overall quality was still okay in 5 (and then got better in 6) since they had some stuff from the books to pull from but nowadays it’s only their own stuff
@@GarbageGust "Got better in 6"? How? There was the botched Kingsmoot, the continuation of literally butchering Dorne, the retarded Arya arc, the retarded Jon-Sansa arc, and the King's Landing arc that was pretty meh throughout most of it and then literally blew up into complete retardation in the last episode. The _one_ arc that was great throughout all of season 6 was the Bran arc, which at least somewhat still drew on the books, and also ended half-way through. I think when people think of season 6, they primarily think of _that,_ and that's why they still praise it. For me, it was the exact other way around. I still had some goodwill for the show after season 5, but it was the Kingsmoot (and particularly Euron, I love book Euron but show Euron is shiiiit), Dorne, and the idiocies of the Arya plotline that finally disillusioned me for good.
@@MetalFire1998 hell I would have preferred that ginger wildling to Arya. Though, I won't go so far as to say, "it would be impossible for arya to kill the night king" like some people do.
I hated episode with all my heart. As for terrible ending, it didn't really needed to be Jon to strike final blow. The clues you play in background say he has a history with Night King, and he sure as hell deserved a fight. A fight he would lose, akin to Ned, losing to Arthur Dayne until stabbed by well but sneaky foreshadowed Arya (history rhymes). Make her first stab have no effect, or maybe make Jon land a cut before, or both, scaring audience he is immune to Valyrian steel. Maybe even make Jon pick up icy sword (because he is disarmed) and freeze his fingers severely (remember how he burned his hand first time he fought a wight?), strike anyway and don't harm the NK. Finally, only by extending her arm and stabbing chest ("remember where the heart is?") Arya would manage to uncreate Night King, making him slowly fall apart like WW killed by Sam, but silent.
@A.J Yeah, I didn't liked superhuman moments as well. In fact, I don't think he _should_ land that hit, I said it was one of possible ideas. About single combat ending in seconds - yes! Around 10-15 seconds. Short engagement ending in NK disarming Jon. As for his combat provess in fighting men and wights - I think it was alright how he fought in Crasters Keep, Battle of Castle Black, Battle of Bastards (he survived because of insane luck) and Hardhome, then less Beyond the Wall and Long Night. As for White Walker combat - In Hardhome his White Walker kill was entirely different thing. Icy boi acted cocky and was caught off guard. The Beyond the Wall one though, no. He knew the danger and I think it should've taken team effort to kill this one. Also, same - I hate the idea of kill one - you kill army. I secretly hoped Night King's death wouldn't affect White Walkers because they are their own form of life.
I immediately ordered the books after I watched ep5. Jaime Lannister saying "I never cared about the innocent" was the last straw. I took everything after that line as a joke, couldn't take the series serious anymore.
I bought the first three books after that dumpster fire of a finale just so I could get immersed in the *real* Westeros, so to speak. I stopped reading for quite a while but I’m almost through with AGOT. Highly recommended, those books are really good.
"You're going to do something outlandish that you haven't done the foreshadowing for just in order to surprise people?" George R.R. Martin is Rian Johnson's kryptonite
Oh you mean Rey's parents that where literally said to never be coming back in TFA: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zZtywahFwHs.html And JJ said weren't in TFA: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-paSJk793gWU.html Or perhaps it's Luke who Han said walked away from everything after an apprentice destroyed everything because he felt responsible: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LSr83bOSGV4.html Or perhaps it's Snoke's death. Which was set up by Han saying that Snoke was using Kylo: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-hh-zGP-LcQQ.html Which JJ said Kylo knows is true deep down: mummiesandlightsabers.tumblr.com/post/152513318484/jj-abrams-audio-commentary-for-the m.soundcloud.com/user-55769144/jj-abrams-commentary-to-star-wars-the-force-awakens And Kylo saying he would finish what Vader started: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VQuIwqaxfFk.html In case you forgot Anakin wanted to overthrow Palpatine and rule the galaxy with Padme. Along with him wanting Rey to join him: m.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FJTz-ahXyyI.html Which is pretty strange because Snoke just wanted her brought to him not turned to the dark side. It just seems to imply Kylo was always planning on getting rid of Snoke.
@@shakky1512 Oh yeah, that's what I want to do before watching a movie. Spent hours on the interview of the director to enjoy the movie. Stop being an apologist for the soy boy who thinks shocking the audience equals to good writing.
@@shakky1512 Look at you go, honey. Defending on the "good parts" of TLJ. I don't have a problem with Rey's parents being nobodies. Luke running away after what he did? Some people saw it as a stretch, but I can have a suspension of disbelief. But the other parts? Fuck that. Nowadays, Rian "Soy Boy" Johnson , would argue that Snoke's death is the same as Palpatine. Unclimactic. But do you know why people don't complain about Palpatine? Simple. Because of the time it was made. If they pulled that kind of twist nowadays (mind you, this is a 1980's film), George Lucas would probably get the same backlash. Comparing your work with the old ones of the same kind is a backward way of thinking. Yes, I'll still call him a soy boy, due to the fact that he calls himself a writer, yet he doesn't know the "Mary Sue" trope. And when people called him out, he called said trope as "sexist". How inept can you be, Rian? Also, very smart of you to defend the parts of the story that is "defendable". Are you not going to talk about the shitty sub-plots of said movie? Like the shitty side mission of Finn and the Asian chick? (Sorry, don't remembered her name. That's how forgettable that sub plot is) Or the "dragging-the-plot-so-we-can-hit-2-hours-mark" fight between Poe and Holdo? Or the subversions of Phasma over and over again? For fuck sake, they wasted Brienne of Tarth just for the sake of casting "strong women figure". I could go on, but then I'll become CinemaSins. Tl;dr Subversions for the sake of shocking audiences don't make good writing.
D & D: We hoped to kind of avoid the expected, and Jon and/or Dany have always been the candidates for the iron throne, it just didn't seem right for us for this moment, so we opted for HotPie to be the king instead. He seemed like the best candidate, provided we weren't thinking about him in that moment😂😂😂
At this point I think mole town whore #3 would've been a great candidate for Queen of Westeros. And who could forget the male legless begger #2 from Flea Bottom?
They are subverted for sure because the thing I expected the least was this awful ending after so many years. It's like D&D saying: "you didn't expect this bad writing, now did ya?". All the characters feel so stupid and one dimensional and it only works for Euron, but Dany, Cersei, Jon, Tyrion? Who are they anymore? It's getting worse than a generic fantasy story, because although predictable, they at least leave you with satisfaction. And not this disbelief that your favorite meal is suddenly tasting like cardboard. Expectations are subverted because legacy or continuity doesn't matter, impossible things are achieved with either deus ex machina or plot armor, not by outsmarting your enemy. Things are happening for the sake of happening with no layers, no cleverness or intricacy.
owbeer no, Studio Trigger is probably what you’re thinking of, it contains a lot of the staff previously in Gainax but it is a separate newly created studio, they didn’t take over Gainax
I don't want to be the one who is defending them. But as for jon he was resurrected to take back winterfell. Also it is worth mentioning that if it wasn't for jon arya wouldn't come back to winterfell therefore she would not have kill the night king.
This is why the current state of the GOT fanbase is annoying me. You can't be making casual statements such as "So jon snow was resurrected from death just to scream at a zombie dragon that died anyway?" Bro the show isn't over. They're probably still planning something big with Jon. Even shitty writers don't reveal R+L=J for no reason, something stunning is probably going to happen, whether it's regarding the throne or something else. Hold your judgements until the shows actually over, and if they totally screw that up, well then you at least know that that's all there is an you can actually make that judgement.
@@andrewma9682 who cares tho. Show is shit. It's been shit for a couple seasons. Also, the Others are supposed to be the overarching evil of the story. They die so abruptly, by the hand of, not the one/s that were kinda foreshadowed cause, KACHAA, SURPRISE! SHOCK FACTOR! And, the ultimate evil is defeated halfway through the season. What? All the politics and bullshit are supposed to be trivial in comparison to the Others, how the fuck do you kill them mid season? The show is terribly written, turned into a generic shock factor show. Rather keep waiting for them books
@@dustinsmith2021 same. Took me a little bit to get used to his writing amd flow, but once I got going I couldn't put the books down. One of my favourite writers hands down.
Rasheed Gonzales me too. When i first started a game of thrones i had no idea what i was reading because his language was so confusing, but now that i can understand im addicted
@@GizmoMaltese yes, but both events, while they seem sudden, are actually foreshadowed in the mood of the episodes that precede them. Are you really comparing the red wedding to Arya Sue killing the night king with one neat trick?
@@GizmoMaltese that was also something the show killed. in the books he marries his one night stand that gets pregnant because it is the noble thing to do. therefore, the freys kill him. he meets the same end as his dad because they're too noble, aka black and white and therefore terrible player in the game of thrones. in the show, the whole talisa thing is more of an ungrateful ego batshit thing, but it still applies that things won't turn out great for him.
Why captivating and killing her such a big deal for cersei after all she is just a translator for dany. Why would cercei even think that dany would negotiate the iron throne for missandei
@@TheDayne idk im pretty certain a winds of winter will be announced after the show ends, cuz a dance with dragons came out a month before the show started and this way they make the most money, he might even be done with a dream of spring rn
Maybe this was his master plan all along. Wait for the show to get everyone hooked then screw it up so that people will have to read the books to get a satisfying ending.
i think he knew that D&D will screw everything but at least the first 4 seasons would make the people buy the books and wanted to know more about the lore, and when they screw the story, people will rush to the books to had a satisfied end.
That is if the dude ever release the damn books before he die. He has been taking years, doing all sorts of other stuff in the meantime. D&D at least would have books to adopt if TWOW and ADOS came out before season 7.
@Jay See that's right lol. Btw the only logical place she cud've come from is from the weirwood tree but ehh no point thinking over a ruined show anyway
@DasItMane No different, just as dumb. Maybe episode 4 will show us a different perspective on the kill to explain it? 😮 GOT: Naaaah. “Bran you tell ‘em” Ohhhh shit how are Arya and Sansa going to react? 🤭 GOT: Naaaaaaaaaaaah. Oh and dragon down. Dead. Bolts to the necks and heart. Oh well. Suck it.
I like how your all complaining about where she came from. This is a fantasy world. This world has magic. This world has dragons. This isnt a realistic world and never has been. Arya learned how to be a faceless assassin from Jaqen H'ghar who literally killed a person a minute after arya asked him to. It was humanly impossible for him to get there as fast as he did and you all are complaining about where arya came from? lol
Matthew Newman are you stupid? so now it’s normal for Arya to suddenly be able to jump out of the sky randomly past a group of white walkers n their army????? make it make sense? oh you can’t can you?
Vince Gilligan once said, "Good endings need to be satisfying to the audience much more than they need to be surprising or shocking" What Arya did is indeed "subverting your expectations" but is it satisfying? Is it in line with 7 seasons and almost a decade of the rest of the series? NOPE.
He got revived anyway because he still has to unite the north. That was his role. Think of him as the messenger. Plus if he never got resurected then Dany would not have united with the north to help in the battle of Winterfell. Let me just add that I don't think Jon is just a messenger and wasn't just resurected to unite the North. He has another role.
I view season 8 as a blessing in disguise. Hopefully GRRM sees it, becomes infuriated, and blasts through his writer's block with a vengeance. Everything is going according to the plan folks lol
@@ThuggishDD Everyone will see him as their savior if he finishes the books... maybe this is exactly what he wanted... now he will be praised, not the showrunners....
I'd rather the show ended logically and predictably than it ending like it is now :/ Edit: by "logically AND predictably" I mean a logically sound plot in which what appears to be externally* unpredictable makes some sort of sense in an internal way. Not a plot line that subverts purely for the sake of subverting expectations - including even reasonable ones.
You know i have figured out what GRRM's ending was suppose to be unless hes changing it which does seem sort of likely but Dany and her dragons were always the other monsters the monster of fire that had to be destroyed.
@@ColonelBragg really? The books go on and on about the magic of dragons returning and like they were some ancient force... (not bad etc) and probably sort of essential against the walkers. Oh well... Well have to wait and see. It really can't be worse than the show it at any rate. Lol at this point, I'm just done with the show and the apathetic attitude of the writers.
@@sebee555 I'm just watching it with morbid fascination that dragon crashing and burning was a great metaphor for the show itself book Dan-Aerys going insane makes sense book Cersei will never be crowning herself queen of Westeros that was pure Dumb and Dumber fanboyism
@@ColonelBragg 😂 true. It was pretty much obvious when it was announced that this would be the last season... Which wasn't very realistic in the first place and then only six episodes? But didn't expect it too be THIS bad either. Too rushed, too haphazard and too forced especially since jon and dany met.
@@sebee555 I do think as far as the books go all these events are like the final whimper of magic in the world before its gone forever all of it has that end of an age vibe to it.
GRRM: "Do you do something goody and outlandish that you haven't done any foreshadowing for, that you haven't laid the foundations for?" D&D: Hey, let's have Arya kill the Night King!
I really want cersei to slip in the bathroom and die of head trauma from the toilet... Then the producers would be like : Seeeee poetic stuff and fate bitches!!!
@@joeyclemenza7339 where has anyonr said they would only do 8 seasons? Far as I can tell that was dnd wanting to keep it at 73 hours or whatever for no real reason
@@joeyclemenza7339 If you're going to make a claim like that then I need evidence. Sources of the cast saying they wouldn't work longer because i haven't heard anything of the sort and it doesn't seem like them
@@joeyclemenza7339 No man. Dumb and Dumber wanted to run off and do a Star Wars movie. HBO offered them a shit ton af money to stick around and finish it right. To at least do 2 full 10 episode seasons. They refused. They would have had to pass on Star Wars. So they ruined every character, ignored half of the plot lines that were developed like they never existed and created unbelievable plot lines. It doesnt matter anymore how it ends. The story was ruined. The path that got us here isnt believable. Its like every other shitty written TV show now. Oh and one more thing, You know the show sucks when you have to have another show after every episode to explain what happened to an audiance scratching thier head like, WTF?
@@eht03 You cannot connect dots into the future lol This argument keeps changing everyday. The deal with Disney is after the writing has been done not before. Disney changed plans a couple of months ago
@@lop90ful1 It doesn't matter if they hate it. Why would they go out of their way to make it WORSE? GRRM gave his permission for GOT, AND wrote a few episodes himself. So, clearly he approved of it. So, what are you talking about?
Dalton Lang you are, along with the rest of you he should have finished the book much faster. But it’s not HBO rushing them, this is a money well for them, the show runners don’t want to keep working on the show anymore they want to move to new projects, which is also understandable. GRR was pushing for 10 seasons but D&D refuses and only wanted 8
Alright, let's get one thing clear. If D&D wanted too, they could of gave us a more comprehensive show. There's so much more lore and subplots that they could of easily made 2-3 more seasons if they didn't diverge from the book. They gave up on the project and rushed the end. I am not looking forward to the new Star Wars movie and I shouldn't of expected anything from the co-writer of X-Men Origin.
And how is that? Because I don't see that at all. Seems pretty much everything pans out in a way that was build up and foreshadowed. Arya was training for a big kill since season 1, it was either going to be Cersei or the NK. Most people just expected Cersei. Jon was hinted at being the one to kill or fight the NK, which is why it does not seem fitting with Georges writing to actually have him do it, would be way too much of the typical hero then, which is definitely not George. Jons role as Azor Ahai, or the last Hero Reborn, is to unite the people and lead them in the fight against the Darkness, which is exactly what he did.
Bango Skank arya will kill the night king in the books too. everything around it leading to that point will probably feel more exciting and the kill more rewarding.
Torbi- nator feels rushed. There’s no detail. Arya kills the night king and 10 mins later danys flying off to fight Cersei. She gets no recognition. This season is honestly disappointing. The last 7 seasons were great imo but this last one feels rushed and not at all like game of thrones. Hate to see the show end on a bad not. 😕
@@ozzygilliam9194 so how do you wanted the show to be? Arya killing the night king has been foreshadowed by Melisandre's prophecy in much earlier season, and of course Dany is going to fight Cersei since she still sit on the iron throne, do you expect her to make peace with Cersei??
V TOOK MY V-CARD the arya thing was more ret-conned. What mellisandre told her had nothing to do with the night king. Same as “what do we say to the god of death”
Everything is so rushed and so forced feeling. A lot of what happened in the long night battle and the last battle at kings landing I don’t think are necessarily bad, but they way they unfolded and how they were introduced were terrible. Again, everything felt so forced.
@@Scoobay I would agree but isn't that how everyone dies in GoT? Look at neds death for example. Very few ppl in the show or the books get glorified deaths
There is a theory out there that D&D are not as smart and clever as everyone is making them out to be. They were just really good at copying and pasting the works of GRRM. Once the source material ran out, D&D thought they were so clever as to continue and keep the show as riveting and compelling as it was. Turns out they were wrong. It really does feel like a SPRINT to the finish. The battle of Winterfell should have been two episodes long. D&D are not as smart as people are giving them credit. It was all Martin, it has always been Martin.
That’s what I’m saying. Easily could have been two episodes. Shit we could have gotten two full 10 episodes seasons too. Cause this shit feels rushed yet there are so many pointless scenes that are there to fill time smh
Imagine how bored and useless Euron and his fleet would be. If they just didn't bother with traveling by sea. Since they have literally zero reasons to Cersei: Euron did you get them yet Euron: aaaargh nooo im waiting and waiting. Come on. Dont you guys want to take a voyage by sea?? Jon, Dany and the gang: No Euron: ohh come in thats not fair pleaaaaaaase. The gang: nope sorry too busy heading south to take Kings Landing we'll play later Euron: waah not fair. Remember what Ramsay said bout the ironborn?
Subverting expectations is amazing when done right. Its part of what made GOTs and A Song Of Ice And Fire so great. Unfortunately it is really hard to pull off and D&D don't have the writing skill for it. GRRM did
George R.R Martin is a beacon of hope in a sea of disappointing narrative. He is a master storyteller who is taking the time he needs to craft a satisfying conclusion to his work. More power to him.
GRRM is all about subverting the tropes as in ''dont take anything for granted'' to keep the audience interested on what happens next, but Dumb&Dumber subvert storytelling for a quick ''gotcha'' as the end of all things, regardless of how retarded it all turns out to be. Im glad this video exists to prove it.
This master storyteller fucked up his own story with the 5 year gap and not knowing how to write books 4-5 (he's famously talked about the Mereenese knot). He's such master that he got bogged down, doesn't know what to do, and will die without finishing. These books are some of my favorite of all time, but my eyes are still open.
Things D&D have set up with no payoff: -Nymeria's Wolf Pack -Jon killing the Night King -The Night King Hunting Bran/his motivation -The Entire Azor Ahai Prophecy -All of the Wolves (and dragons for that matter) -Jon Snow being brought back to life -War Elephants in the Golden Company battle -Arya and Sansa hating each other -Daenerys being pregnant with Jon's child -Tyrion "loving" Daenerys -Varys being hinted at as a Merman (though I'll admit this was more of a fan theory) -Littlefinger's master plan -The Mad King going mad due to Bran -Daenerys as the mad queen
Well we got one of those. But let’s also add -Arya killing Cersei -Jaime hating Cersei and being the one to end her -The iron fleet being a devastating force -The golden company having any impact on the story
The Golden Company in the show is COMPLETELY irrelevant to the story Everything would end up the fucking same if they didn't include them in the storyline
@@NicholasLionRider I think it would have been nice to see him killing her on episode 5 just to stop her suffering and avoiding her a horrible death... I could have worked that way as well...
literally doing the same LOL I always planned to SOME DAY read the books but only started this season when I realized how underwhelming the show ending would be
I once laid the foundation for a wonderful, elegant dwelling, but when my neighbor surmised what it would look like... I built a garage and now sleep in my car.
Hope the next time dumb and dumber go for a sip of their Starbucks frap they get a mouth full of warm piss instead as their assistant says "bet you didnt see that coming"
Imagine the meeting where D&D were told the ACTUAL ending for the books then their meeting right after George left... "That was bullshit, let's just do Aliens"
someone find me any writer though that could have done something good in so few seasons, sure the writing was not great but much of that is because they had no time to do anything else. Kill the night king, bam no more white walkers.. no need to spend time on them anymore.. pile of rubble, bam no more cersei and jamies... that was quick... etc. I don't think people really had problems with the ending itself, just how we got there - and those that think they did have problems might have not thought so if we had an extra season or 2. I mean there were problems with the ending, like how jon snow gets exiled only to have his exilers leave westeros immediately afterwards... but then again he was probably happy because he was probably "done with this shit"
"... the new solution would not be satisfactory, the clues would point in another way. It would be a cheat, in a sense. But what do you do then, do you change it and come up with something outlandish that you haven't done the foreshadowing for, that you haven't led the foundation for, just in order to surprise people?" George R R Martin on the concept of SUBVERSION
*On a Hollywood understanding of subversion concept. Previously series had a millions of subversions but no one was pissed because this subversions did make sense. Good subversion plays with audience's understanding of the genre and create outcome that viewers aren't expecting but that is completely logical in context (Ned's death, Red Wedding, Tyrion's trial, when Oberyn is fighting for him, etc) D&D is also want to surprise audience with such shocking subversion but the best twist they can come up with is the "Fuck all the characters' previous development! Now they are doing this absurd shit just because audience don't expect this." (and considering what they've done to Jayme and how they skipped Daeneris' development I won't be surprised if in final episode they do "AND NOW THE ALIENS ATTACK! DIDN'T EXPECT THIS???" )
Just think about how great it is that D&D and Rian Johnson are teaming up for the new Star Wars... so many expectations to subvert... SO. MANY. EXPECTATIONS.
I am glad Tolkien finished LOTR before it was filmed so we have have an epic ending as we see in The Return of the King rather than some corrupted crap in GOT
Peter Jackson was pretty invested in the book, ( and the way he and his crew shot the movies, you can see they loved what they were doing, real passion ) and he had Christopher Lee as well, the man who knew Tolkien and was particuraly meticulous with the book. In GOT D&D just wanted to write their own story and "own" the show.
While I did love LOTR movie and hated hobbit movies I'll say that if you find the die hard Tolkien fans, they are as critical of Peter Jackson as some are of D&D. There were some major changes and the Nazgul who do not have a lot of book description gave Peter a load of room to make them into horror film looking creatures (in the shadow world form) to increase the fact that they are "evil" the elves were not at helms deep among other changes. But it was spectacular looking overall with stellar acting. Once Hobbit movie came around it was completely changed, cgi consumed everything instead of real locations and costumes and prosthetics. They added a girl to implant a romance and Legolas was an all star suddenly. So PJ was guilty of taking liberties on ONE small book turned into 3 movies that was all fan fiction. I like PJ but movie/show makers are never the writers. Therefore it's never going to feel the same nor can it be labored over as a book can because you have a cast and crew of hundreds and budgets and time lines. Sponsors and corporate bullshit. Actor contracts and conflicts and aging cast members that are essential for the plot. Some stuff feels rushed but decisions must be made to save time because get 20 actors together who want to take other parts and can't and complain and you have to try and make as Many people happy including fans. I've tried more to go along for the ride since season 6 and take what I get and then go along for a different ride in books. Sure I'll yell at my screen at times ("pet ghost!!") but I'm still always looking forward to the next ep.
@@PhoenixRising357 hum in TLoR change lije elves is just to have better movie effect, it doesnt affect the movie that much. And i think tolkien would have love some change made and only made for the movie. Peter jackson was not part of the hobbit movie first and all 3 movie ( awful ) was forced i believe
@@jaehyuk4551 he directed the hobbit movies. I remember the releases they did on pre production with the cast and the inside look at the sets. Again I like PJ. I was just saying that he too (along with the writers) went in a fanfic route I do agree with you about LOTR that I believe all involved loved the original content of books. Of course they had the completed works. I believe D&D love the original content too but yes they have their own direction like the hobbit
@@PhoenixRising357 at first it was Tim Burton who was in charge of the movies but resine, Pete had to do it after if i remenber but i might be wrong ^^
@@ondrej1893 Yes, that would be great BUT what if the diet does not go too well and George passes the role to one of the current thinner writers. You know Ondrej at this stage all I can is just laugh at what these writers have done.
@@capedsaitama3375 S8E03 was kinda okey if you don't think about it as much, IMO it was ep4 that ruined the whole thing; all we got is a little funeral scene and thats it ,then everything is back on usual as "the great war" never happened
Alphabet Soup those people live in their moms basement lol. It is true that since season 7 everything went all Hollywood style and therefore, lost the essence of what GoT was.
Such a great show which began to collapse once it had no more books to use as material.......episode 1 dialogues were as if a 3rd grader had written them......
@@WhiskeyToro Maybe you need to try more women. You'll have plenty of opportunities using all the time you save *not* getting triggered on youtube comment sections.
Credit to the editing on this for making this careful selection of interviews feel like one long, coherent statement. The real tragic thing about this is D&D were real fans of the books when they initially started making the show. The only reason George famously let them even try was because he asked them a serious, deep lore question: "Who is Jon's real mother?" They answered correctly, and thus George allowed them to adapt his works to the screen. But it seems like the second they ran out of source material, they started relying more and more on set-pieces and expectation defying plot changes to carry the momentum of their drama as opposed to the actual story or characters. It went alright for awhile but by the end its like they had completely forgotten the values of the characters George had tested them on in the first place, getting lost themselves in the awe and grand scale of the talent they had amassed in the show's productions, now wanting to see more "bigger and beterer" battles and effects than ever before instead of character resolution.
I used to share your sentiments, but when the creator is making hollow promises about his work and continues to announce dates, just for the sake of making periodic announcements, GRRM should share some of the blame for the ending of Game of Thrones. I think it is clear D&D ran out of steam, and were eager to start their new adventure in a galaxy far, far away. What we don’t know are the conversations that took place between them and GRRM regarding his unfinished work. How much of his intentions with regard to the book series finale was he willing to share? Also, how certain was he of his conclusion. He admittedly rewrites numerous chapters during his book writing process and let’s the process guide his characters’ journeys. He may not have been completely clear on how he wanted things to end for many of his characters. Did he promise D&D they would receive enough information to deliver a satisfying ending? We mostly likely will never know. All three of those men should share the blame for the disastrous ending.
@@imranahmad-uh9fi I don't really no, but I gotta eat. I wouldn't complain if I somehow created a cash cow like GoT. The thought of financial independence sounds pretty sweet.
Banana Fanafoferry it’s not just disappointing it’s boring, obvious ,tedious,and the writing is so television,George of the cap ,writes films,... ,,,when he gets around to it :)
Fucking thank you!!! The show started to suck long before season 8. I still hate the way they killed Littlefinger, the man caused EVERYTHING to happen and they kill him bc the Starks had an offscreen convo... fucking lame way to take out arguably the most impactful character
@Riptor As much as I loved Stannis, his dead did actually serve a purpose. Without his defeat Jon would have never been revived by Melisandre. Ser Davos would have never became his advisor. Sansa and Theon would have never left Winterfell. I loved Stannis (though his faith is different in the books), but he had a Stannis-worthy death. Now with Littlefinger, that´s a different story- just as pathetic as Varys´s death.
Dude Stannis was bound to fail even in the books. The writing would still probably be better, but all these butthurt Stannis don't realize that GRRM told them the ending to his storyline, so they followed through with it.
And how is that? Because I don't see that at all. Seems pretty much everything pans out in a way that was build up and foreshadowed. Arya was training for a big kill since season 1, it was either going to be Cersei or the NK. Most people just expected Cersei. Jon was hinted at being the one to kill or fight the NK, which is why it does not seem fitting with Georges writing to actually have him do it, would be way too much of the typical hero then, which is definitely not George. Jons role as Azor Ahai, or the last Hero Reborn, is to unite the people and lead them in the fight against the Darkness, which is exactly what he did.
Of course he hate it now, during season 7 he was too busy watching "the Kingdom" instead of GoT7, would you do that with your baby? D&D were truly invested in the beginning but they had a target, the Red Wedding, down the road they changed the story a bit and then more and more, GRRM pointed out the changes in many occasion but he also pointed out he have no "video power" by contract, he trusted them but 8-9 years is a long commitment. Now the people who loved GoT because it was different from any other show pay the price, GoT s8ep3 is an abomination. They always say they can't make all the people happy, but that's just BS, most of the people would be happy with just some good writing, coherency with the spirit of the show, but this is people who love to write drama and soap opera and call it "politics", who cares about fantasy.
these interviews are 3-4 years ago... he quite since the books run out and D&D wanted to write there fanfiction. i think his intereset died with season 5, there fanfiction
@@oceanpacific3841 it have nothing to do with GoT beside running in a medieval period. I enjoyed it because I wasn't expecting anything special from it, you'll have to check it yourself, if you enjoy few episode then perhaps you can enjoy all the season, they are coherent and don't mess up the final season.
@@azzurriblue65 pretty hard to enjoy plot-holes, plot-armor and overall terrible storytelling. The show is not "too big to satisfy everyone" its bad writing and that's the end of it.
@@azzurriblue65 you have just seen a video with the creator of the world, talking about not doing exactly what D&D are doing with the new series, and then you call the people complaining faggots? If you want to lap all this fucking shit up, after years of hype and build up, for it all to end like this then so be it. Other people arent satisfied with such bullshit episodes. The 1st 4 seasons are golden with tight in universe logic. The recent seasons seem like they are written and directed by Michael fuckin Bay. And i also see that you think its fine to moan about season 5 as you didnt like it, but other people moaning about season 8 are faggots because you like it? lol you are a dumb ma'fucker, no wonder you are enjoying season 8
I love how everyone writes BaD, baD, BAD, shit, insult, George much better, shit , shit, bad,... for 3 seasons, but then they are every weak ready to discuss the newest episode and are never going to read the books because they are lazy fucks who only watch tv on their couch. Ofc now everyone will repsond here with "I have read the books, they are much better, bla bla" I quote the Hound for you guys "fuck off". Yes, it is rushed and this speed damages the story, still it is one of the best TV Shows ever made. George is much better in making these storys, but A "Feast for Crows" was 2005 and "A Dance with Dragons" 2011 he can´t come up with amazing stories in one to two years and than you have to shoot the series too. Everything comes with a price a Geroge level story would have been made in 2 or 3 more seasons. Season 8 in 2021, Season 9 in 2024 and S10 maybe in 2030. It was much easier when the story was still based on a already written book in 1996.
Star Wars really missed out on an opportunity to not show us Luke skywalker v darth Vader. They should have subverted the audience instead with Princess Leia fighting him.
Lew Dav ................ Its supposed to be sarcasm!!!!!!! Have a little think about it then read the post again without your "serious" hat on this time, you're not gonna see my face are you! And PLEASE don't pity me, it's just a TV show, THATS ALL FOLKS!
@@lewdav805 It doesn't matter how the show "ends". Honestly, I don't really care how sits on the Iron throne now. The show actually ended on Season 8 Episode 3, since that was what the show built up for since Season 1 Episode 1 (Pilot), the long night, the White Walkers, the Night King, etc. So, stop making excuses about shitty writing by D&D.
The problem is that they are not trying to adapt an unfinished saga written 200 years ago and they are trying to figure out the writer's intentions. They could still finish the show in a dignified manner, without giving away the original ending. It's not like they didn't skip characters from the books. It could be done...they are just tired of it, want to get to the end as soon as possible. Which is understandable, perhaps they want to move on to doing other projects, but as I see it this shouldn't be an excuse for bad writing. I mean: D&D live long and prosper, but can't this attitude potentially damage their careers? I am just asking, because I am really curious about this aspect.
Checkov's Gun - "The term ‘Chekhov’s Gun’ comes from something Chekhov allegedly said in the 1880s (it was noted down by Ilia Gurliand): ‘If in Act I you have a pistol hanging on the wall, then it must fire in the last act’. This has become an oft-repeated phrase in fiction and scriptwriting classes because it describes simply how a story needs to obey its own internal logic and honour its most powerful images."
The Man From Volantis ,.. then what happened to what George said when he claimed in an interview: “ you just don’t hang a giant Wolfpack on the wall unless you intend on using it”,.....
Dirt Fisher I'm not sure what you're getting at. But if that's what he said then he is making the same point as Chekov. It doesn't have to be a gun, it can be anything of significance or even something insignificant that the audience has their attention drawn toward.
The Man From Volantis , yes I’m agreeing with you,... just pointing out how D&D do exactly what George won’t do, ....they show Nymeria and her pack reunite with Arya ,.. then we never see them again,..
Ha yeah....i forgot about the Nymeria scene. All that just so she could say "That's not you"....a line only 30% of viewers "got". I had somebody tell me it wasn't Nymeria coz she said "That's not you". I had to go find them the clip of Arya and Ned from season 1
