The Fair Game/Lucky Charms Debacle | RWBY Volume 7 

Fun fact: Clover winking at Qrow wasnt in the episode script, that was added by one of the animators because she shipped them.

I remember watching THAT episode with my boyfriend, and him just seeing my face go from one of edged worry to disappointed rage lmaoooo

My only ONLY problem with Lucky Charms and Bumblebee is BAD WRITING and lack of understanding. As a Black women, I understand how representing is so important but not all representing is good representation. The only thing I want from CRWBY is more development of the LGBTQ+ and better writing

When I think about the dynamic of Ruby and Qrow I am reminded of a quote from Uncle Iroh "if you look for the light, you will often find it but if you look for the dark, it is all you will see".

"Lucky You. *winks*" Me: *Intense regret and internal big oof energy*

I love how Qrow and Clover just ignored that Tyrian, a crazed psychotic killer with a high body count who Clover was ordered to transport, was not only free but had his weapons and was attacking them. Like WTF, why were they fighting eachother instead of Tyrian? Why didn't either of them say "Hey let's finish this after the political assassin is back in custody"?

Never shipped these two, but I'm bisexual, and when I saw how the CRWBY posted about it and noticed the writing between them, I became understandably pissed off about their sudden oblivion to the message of representation they portrayed to fans.

This is by far the kindest and most constructive perspective on what happened that I have ever heard. Liked it in the season 7 review and liked it here. Well done and I hope videos and posts like this help CRWBY to avoid this in future.

Toxic masculinity can kick a brick. Caring about and helping your male friends and accepting help when you need it normal and healthy. I hate that our society looks down on men who are open with their feelings.

I loved Lucky Charms. Normally I would just eat the marshmallows, but the actual cereal was ok. Oh, and Qrow x Clover was a cool ship, too, ig.

I personally don't think that Qrow's alcohol recovery was quickly fixed, I just think it was a beginning of a start for him. But I do believe yang's PTSD arc was rushed. You don't have to have things in your face to represent it. But the few times she had shakey hands hindered her in no way. Yang's flashback was the only indication that it hindered her in some way. She never struggled at all after that really, internally or externally. To clarify, I don't mean she should grovel and crumble or anything but even those that tend to push past their trauma as a way of coping have a conflict, with themselves or those around them, in big ways and/or in small ways. Like with me for instance, I got stung by a wasp when I was really young and REALLY struggle with them and bees. I can still function even when passing one although I tense up a bit. I start to panic a bit when I hear buzzing, even when it just a fly and avoid going out in th e spring and honestly avoid flowers and thick patches of grass. These are things I struggle with but I move past, I conduct my life where I can coexist with it. Although I don't show these issues to people and sometimes do end up near flowers since they ARE EVEYWHERE IN MY TOWN, I still struggle. People wouldn't know I have issues with these things unless I told them. Yang can still have confidence and be happy and move past what happened while showing signs, especially when her's was still fresh and they wanted to portray that it had an impact. I don't think the issue is that the impact seemed small but that it was portrayed as if and SHE made it come across as if didn't matter at all. They were building it up, but really didn't cause it was never mentioned or thought about till they met him or when Blake and her held hands in the barn, and it ultimately ended with her treating it like just another fight that didn't matter and it felt like a bad joke. Again she doesnt have to grovel or cry but at least some emotion like hesitation, excess anger but then calming down remembering what her dad said, any emotion other than, I don't care about you dude cause we gotta take care of something bigger than this. Personal character struggles can be just as important or great, sometimes even more so than the actual plot. Just shaking a bit, a small amount of times does nothing and honestly came off as her just needing to get back to form, not as still struggling. And when she interacted with the reason for her trauma, with no build up to this, she didn't seem to care at all. It was built up more for Blake's meeting with him again. Her arm almost and potentially getting torn off again results in an I don't care state from her. And only when he states himself about their previous encounter does she actually seem like she cared and her hand shook a bit till blake held her hand. That's not how people generally respond to their trauma. You don't suddenly start reacting cause someone reminded you it happened when you are right there. It felt like an excuse for yang and Blake to hold hands and "further" their relationship. It didnt feel earned. I'm just baffled because although people do act differently, it was portrayed as something that you can just get over but as soon as the person who affected you reminds you that it happened then you suddenly remember and are actually afraid and then go back to not really caring. It felt half baked and like they didn't know how to deal with the subject Sorry this is long. Your video was really nice and I'm glad you were open and rational. I personally don't think yang and Blake is all that well written of a pairing and kinda think Blake and Weiss would have been a better written couple or her and sun. But I think Qrow and Clover would have been a cute couple but I had a FEELING clover was gonna die or something so I didn't get too attached to him. I feel like they are trying to represent different people and themes without ACTUALLY delving into them or exploring them. and for some of those it's a little too late to make it as believable as they could have been which is how I feel about bumblebee. There was potential but the waited too long to start fleshing it out. A few moments of them thinking of each other MIGHT have made it a bit more.....palatable but something, you know. Also yay WINX CLUB

As a gay man myself, I have a straight best friend. He's like a brother to me and I would die for him/if anything happened to him. We're just friends, nothing more. I saw LC as a parallel of our relationship. We both make slightly snarky comments at each other, make little flirty jokes sometimes, we have each other's backs, etc. I was basically Qrow to his Clover. He gave me advice when I felt down, stuck by me when I was being a straight up depressing and pessimistic prick, and lifted my spirits overall. And he was the first person I came out to, and he accepted me because it was a human thing. When I see people bashing CRWBY because they were "supposed to be a gay ship", it breaks my heart. I'm upset that people were angry at this because two dudes onscreen who have a healthy relationship = "they MUST fuck". As if the very concept of friendship between two men is dead. In highschool, people kept accusing us of being "fuck buddies" and boyfriends. A former (let me emphasize: FORMER) friend of ours drew fucking YAOI of us one time. We couldn't hang out together because people would gawk and spread rumors that we fucked. The more I see this trope in fandoms, the more it pisses me off. Yes, representation of mlm romance is needed, but so is friendships of men that break the boundaries of toxic masculinity that demand men not interact with each other in certain ways, lest they be branded as the dreaded homosexual. There's nothing wrong with two men being friends. It's the angry rabid shippers of the fandom that take it WAY too far and make it a toxic subject. Overall, I enjoyed it as a platonic friendship and saw it more like my personal relationship with my bff, than I did as a romantic one. It sucks that Clover died, but that's a story choice that the writers made for a reason. I don't believe they need "manuals" on how to write, because it's their story. I do believe that they should be able to write whatever they want without angry fans biting at their heels and demanding their obedience to the fandom. I love representation, but not when it's the product of harassment and toxicity directed at the writers. It should come naturally, without strings attached.

I think the problem was that we have a basis for bromance in the show already: Ren and Jaune, and Sun and Neptune. From the first interaction between them you can see its a bromance, and not a lot more in that time. Sun and Neptune know each other for a long time and make a lot of jokes (and their supposed romance interests in volume 2 do help define this is not exactly romantic), they are still kept as a close pair (mostly. Apart from that one time sun abandons them for blake for a whole volume or two). Jaune and Ren are the same as Sun and Neptune: can be seen having their moments, but have other romantic interests that point that this pairing isnt going to be explored at that time (if at all, in this case. Which I like because renora is adorable and I love them). Even Jaune and Nora can be said to be a bromance, with Nora being Jaune's wingwoman in volume 3 multiple times. It was clear they had different routes and this was a building block in their character. Another person to bounce off of for development of both of them. But here it wasnt that. They were given opposing semblences as a matching pair, had flirty remarks and had clover show off a few times with flips and winks that werent necessary for a bromance. Qrow was still vulnerable from trying to quit alcohol and developing as more then "drunkle does drink and then fights and is awesome" type thing (he is much more then that but you get me, I hope). Qrow was vulnerable and Clover was there for him, being nice and being a balancing act for his downs, like blake and yang do (whether they are romantic or not I aint getting into it this isnt the comment for that). Opposing colors (black and white) with a main color that they both have (red, one a shade brighter then the other one) catches your eye and makes you go "hey thats.. odd. They almost look like a married couple, bantering like that". And then you realise they do look like that and the unintended ship sails. The big problem is that their bromance was put on a full blast because of clover dying at the end of the season which made it look less like normal bromance but more like "tender adults being nice and honest and sharing emotions to the point of vulnerability, while being flirtatious, like a couple would". Their opposite ends fit nicely in a way that makes people doubt the nature of the relationship.

As a ethnic, sexual, and neurological minority I.... Kind of stopped caring about rep? Like, I do and I don’t? I have a complicated opinion on it (basically, I think it’s important for social progress, but it’s not why I watch shows and I look for things deeper than just surface level representation (emotional investment, interesting ideas, competent structure). I’m not saying this to diminish the feelings of those offended by fumbled and/or offensive representation, I’m just stating my stance to preface that my issues with Clover’s death don’t have to deal with representation since my recent brushes with death have showed my that the reaper doesn’t give a damn who you are, my issue has to do with the stupidity of the encounter. However, as a mixed race black bisexual man with Aspergers, I do think that this is still an important video to watch about representation for those who question why others hold it in high regard.

I personally saw them as a bromance, but I could see the romantic implications. As for Clover being resurrected, I don't think thats going to happen, what with the whole reason Salem became who she is by trying to cheat death, so I doubt the staff would bring anybody back. Also why did no one ever call the ship Qrover? It's a perfectly good pun right there but nobody ever took it.

Honestly, it could have been platonic or romantic to me., although I was rooting for the latter They did handle it poorly and i'm glad you articulated the problems people had with it. It isn't as simple as a ship people liked was cut off. I think they will learn from it and be more careful in the future, as I don't think anyone with half a brain genuinely believes Rooster Teeth is a homophobic company. Unfortunately, LGBT people in media have an inherent political aspect in their existence (which is stupid) to both the left and right, and need to be handled in certain ways. I hate that this is the case, I'm a gay guy and long for the days when I don't have to deal with people asking for proof of a gay characters sexuality early in the story, but then complaining when they do get it as pandering and call you an SJW if you point out the idiocy in this. Then there are those people who take any perceived slight out of proportion, which I am glad you did not do even if this did frustrate you, by screaming and abusing people, most of the time people who had no choice in the matter. I loved the LGBT representation so far because it didn't make a big deal out of it at all, any scene could have been done exactly the same with straight characters. It's ridiculous that our mere appearance in media is political, and I hope that one day none of these issues will exist. This problem was most likely caused by poor communication and handling, which does happen. I think the Oscar scene where he punched Neo was meant to be much more sudden, but due to the hallway design, it was animated as a little ridiculous, a good example of how sometimes the different areas of a company or group are not completely autonomous. Sometimes these things happen, the important thing is that CRWBY learn from it, and that people don't turn in morons and start abusing people for what was almost certainly an honest mistake. I also feel the need to say that this didn't bother me that much when it occurred, and while I do think it was a mistake on CRWBYs part, it doesn't make me that angry. However, I do entirely understand the frustrations people have with it

For what it's Worth, I don't think clover's death was done with his sexuality in mind - rather, I think it would've been done regardless of wether or not Lucky Charms is meant to be implied. Clover dying was fuel for Qrow's subplot. the whole point is to give Qrow hope that he can have a relationship where he doesn't fear for hurting them with his semblance - and then rip it away from him. I didn't read the interactions between Qrow and Clover as romantic - at least, not yet. I did see the romantic cues and hints the first time around (which i think is progress as a straight dude) but it felt more like romance is something that would've developed in another season or two. in volume 7, its a pure bromance. But, that's just my takeaway.

I'm aro ace and I was picking up on Lucky Charms. However being aware of Qrow's semblance and general story patterns and tropes knew whatever happened with Clover was going to end in tears and probable betrayal one way or another.

I will say part of that whole “lesbians are more acceptable because straight guys can fetishize it.” Thing also comes from how many people I see and in my friends group who are mostly straight or bi males, sees it. When Owl house and She Ra and steven Universe had lesbians it was trumpets time. Doesn’t matter if poison Ivy was cheating on Kite man cause Yes my queens are kissing sort of deal. But m/m pairings in kids and teen cartoons? Until I asked I didn’t know about Kipo and the wonder beats having one. The one in steven universe is drowned out by all the lesbian space rocks talk despite the aliens having no actual gender. And yeah they are just used as background characters for being some other side character’s fathers. Live action does have more I think but I never actually see those celebrated either. That sort of thing is why when stuff like Bumblebee is confirmed and becomes big trending news in the animation community some get soured cause the best guys got to see other guys that is explicitly gay with actual characters in many episodes is Shiro from Voltron.....now I feel like I gotta listen to “kurts turn” from glee for some reason

Honestly, bisexual transgirl here, and I think that the criticism that sapphic pairings are more readily accepted- *in media representation* -is entirely fair. I don't think it's healthy to come to conclusions like "gay women are worse off than gay men". Gay women and gay men deal with different forms of marginalization, just like trans men and trans women, and it trivializes the complex intersectional nature of homophobia to try to compare oppressions and conclude that one is "lesser". I love seeing lesbians in my cartoons, but I don't think we can reasonably deny that they are a lot more common than gay guy couples. We have, what, Kipo and the Age of Wonderbeasts? Mr. Ratburn in Arthur? Two side characters in She-Ra? For sapphic couples, I'm thinking of Owl House, LoK, Steven Universe, She-Ra, Batman TAS, My Little Pony... lots of high-profile lesbians or "as lesbian as the censors allow". Outside cartoons, Buffy the Vampire Slayer featured multiple lesbian characters, but the only gay guy is a minor character whose gayness is mostly a joke who dies in Season 3. Gay guys *do* clearly have more trouble getting represented. I'm glad lesbians get so much rep, but let's not pretend that the Male Gaze, and toxic masculine gay panic, haven't both played parts in that. (To be clear, I'm using "lesbian" as a synonym for "sapphic" here, not specifically to refer solely to exclusive lesbians. It's a spectrum and sometimes words are more adjective than noun.)

My issue with Bumblebee isn't at all that it exists it's that it seemingly from my perspective came out of nowhere. They had nearly 2 entire chapters where Blake and Sun seemed to be starting something even writing him to meet her parents and having him accepted by them and then suddenly next chapter essentially pretend none of the build up happened and now she's gay. Basically it just came across as sudden and confusing.

I do like the ship of Bumblebee (yes I know its not the topic of the video), but I feel like it was not an organic relationship from the start. When I first saw Yang helping out Blake in Volume 2, I viewed as them being friends looking out for each other and Yang playing up to be the older sister to the Team Rwby. Yang doesn't really show interest in Blake (in my opinion) and starts to dislike her from volume 4 to volume 6 due to the fact that she left her when she at her most vulnerable just like her mother did. Blake tries to redeem herself to Yang is actually really good since she wants to prove that she won't run away again in Volume 6. Then at the end of their fight with Adam, where they hug each other out was to more accept the fact that they both gotta over their traumas from Adam (Blake not running away and Yang getting over her PTSD or so) as friends. Also talking about Clover, I felt he was more of what Qrow used to be when he worked under Ozpin and that they can get along as friends since they know how it is to serve under someone.

I believe a big reason ppl didnt understand or like that ppl read romantic implications into Lucky Charms is because there is already SOOOOOO much shipping in the show. I've heard from many ppl that they're sick and tired of ppl immediately jumping to the conclusion that two characters r romantic towards each other. That happens a lot in RWBY. Ppl just see too many romantic pairings so they want a fresh platonic love relationship. Sometimes a sibling, parental, child, or friendly platonic relationship is more rewarding and enjoyable than a romantic one.

I keep thinking you mean MLM like as in Multi-level marketing Pyramid Schemes ;-;

But why show a struggle if we can't see a character go through it and it being resolved off screen

As a bisexual, my only gripe with this kinda stuff is when representation is done to fill a sort of "minority quota." Like, I wanna feel like my sexuality being represented does more than just result in a bunch of straight guys in a room clinking champagne glasses saying, "Congratulations gentlemen, we've fixed homophobia!" For example, I feel like Ilia was a good example of representation. Her being bi wasn't just her character, it was part of it. Jaun's sister on the other just felt like CRWBY going, "Hey guys! Look!! A gay!" Even if that may have not been their intent, that's certainly how it came across. Likewise, I'm not a huge fan of retroactively making a character LGBT for the sake representation. Feels a lot more pandering that way.

I've loved qrow ever since we met him, from volume 3 onward I thought I would never see him again. I love that we continued to grow, the relationship they made between qrow and clover (romance or not) was amazing and it shew a grow on a character just from when they interacted. Comparing it to how he interacted in volume 2 and 3 with people. Keeping to himself, finally opening up to someone, and just as they show in the final episode "the fear of growling close to someone" I think this also relates to qrows story as a whole, team STRQ as an example and then clover. Showing that he struggles to grow close to people because it always ends terribly. I am honestly most interested in how they will take his arc as I still love his character and will. I just hope crwby don't screw him over. Also 22:34 is a big mood

Honestly the moment I saw Clover I knew he was going to die either later in the show or in another volume but I never saw his relationship with Qrow romantic at all I saw it more as Clover is showing Qrow that he can lean onto people and find that even when bad things happen good things can still happen ( this is how I saw this relationship ) Clover was a really cool character and interesting as much as I’d love for him to be in at least one more volume I’m ok with it I see his death as something for Qrow to learn and grow

At this point, I not watching for the romance, it's not what I signed up for, I signed up for a badass girl with a sniper scythe and rose petal powers, when they introduced qrow and seeing his weapon I full I did get attached, and wanted good stuff to happen for him. But when they introduced clover I was kinda like either they become really good friends or maybe date. But like I said I didnt sign up for romance so it wasnt a priority. What I take from this, I'm upset to see a good character go. He could've have offered more to the show, I would have liked to see his and qrow's sembalance explained and used in more full. (Also thank fucking shits they gave us a qrow scythe fight but at what cost?)

I actually liked this paring, But it doesn’t matter cause Clovers fookin *d e a d*

I literally would have no gripes with Bumblebee if it was written like Blacksun in the Becon arc. The writers seem to have no problems with establishing romantic overtones for Blake and Sun, but when it's Yang and Blake we have to settle for "subtlety", a wink, and the end of a dance before being handed off to someone else. Like, I get it, there are hints and they have good chemistry, but come on, it wasn't until the beginning of volume seven where I felt like they had anything close to the romantic chemistry as Blake and Sun in volume one. Then again I watch the show pretty passively so any "hints" until then flew right over my head. But it can't be denied that the show knows how to do blatanly romantic scenes and didn't have to balls to go all out until six seasons in.

"Is representation really worth it even if the representation is tokenism?"

The only problem with representation is a problem that RWBY has avoided. That problem is identity swapping in lieu of making new characters. RWBY is nothing, but new characters. In other words, they are doing representation correctly because every group deserves original characters. Changing a pre existing character is condescending because its the creative table scraps. Original characters are a fresh course for any group that receives it.

"RWBY is a Magical Girl anime" is a statement so woke my third eye opened and now my room is filled with sparkles and aurora borealis

As a writer (I Native American, Lakota. I am also Bisexual and suffer from mental illness)... This is one reason why I hesitate to really talk or publish my material. I completely understand the desire from representation and cool characters doing great things. Etc. I fear, that I would make mistakes. Cause honestly. Characters die, and it's because of the world they have been born in And other characters are. Complex I don't want backlash, because I already get judgement for my race, gender, orientation and mental illness So I keep my project between myself, my siblings and my best friend

This time on Unicorn of war: It Keeps going.

I personally, as a bi woman, feel frustrated. I personally felt Bumblebee was rushed after all the time setting up Blacksun in seasons 4 and 5, Ilia was left in unrequited love territory, Jaune’s sister and wife were only unimportant side characters. Clover and Qrow to me felt like they could’ve been a well developed gay romance involving an important character, only for Clover to die. It just kinda reminds me of Adam and Shiro from Voltron. All build up, no pay off.

"Thomas: Who gave the Gremlin a megaphone? Weiss: You're under arrest." That's my fave part still. xD

This "ship" has always had red flags around it for me, on a personal level. On one hand, I feel like the LGBT community tends to be it's own worst enemies when it comes to representation a lot of times. I'm a gay, black guy that likes paintball, weightlifting, has a deep voice, etc. I can't tell you how many times, since I came out, that I'd get weird looks and told "that's not normal/ that's too masculine for a gay guy"..... by other gay guys. So the moment people started shipping Qrow and Clover together, I instantly knew that it'd backfire and get a lot of backlash, both from the LGBT community and straights. But MOSTLY from the LGBT community.....

My biggest revelation in this video was that Qrow doesnt wear his necklace with the new outfit. Sorry, but.. i loved it so much! How did I not notice?

Gonna be real here? While I do enjoy Clover? (He’s dead in body, not in spirit) only problem I had with the lucky charms/fair game was how it seemed Clover was being a little pushy. I get he’s trying to help and applaud that. But when you add flirting to that? Kinda does add misunderstandings. Especially if you are a person who needs time to open up

i don't think this video has positively impacted the discourse. this is the same problem i have with Bumblebee now. i don't think not believing a ship will/would/should be cannon makes me homophobic and from most people who support these two ships, that's what i get written off as. i'm not only painted with different intent i'm painted as maliciously just being against LGBTQ+ representation.

I saw Crow and Clover as a very important relationship, that could evolve to romantic or keep it platonic, but a very important relationship to Crow independent if evolved or not. So.... In my opinion, even if was CLEAR it was a platonic thing, the end still was traumatizing ;-; specially if you count with all the aro people who would appreciate a platonic representation...

I think that Qrow and Clover just didn't have enough time together to establish anything more than a friendly, somewhat vulnerable dynamic. They care about each other, that much is clear, but they haven't had enough dialogue, enough time together to really deepen or define their relationship further.

Hey, person who did the captions on this, if your seeing this I just want to say that while your comments are understandable please for the love of gods do not add them into the captions because there are people who need them and the comments take away from the video.

The waitress winks when she says "I went ahead and gave you top" then she said "lucky you." Clover said "my semblance is good fortune" then he winked when he said "lucky you." They both wink and say "lucky you," but it's what they say before "lucky you" and when they wink that makes the difference between the meaning behind their wink.

UOW- I have always and believe that I always will like your videos. They have always been well thought out, explained without be demeaning, and funny(at the right times). Please keep 'em coming!

This was beautiful and well done! Thank you for this!

I think some of the best shows I've seen recently that have really good representation are RWBY and The Dragon Prince. The Dragon Prince has several interracial couples, including the parents of 2 of the main characters. The other interracial couple is lesbian and they have a daughter. The third main character's adoptive parents are a gay couple, too. Plus the story is really good, highly recommend.

I just ask: why did you say with such confidence that gay men are more privileged than lesbians?

I really love your positive takes and the personality behind it while not being projective. This is great content and just pleasant.

Ever since Volume 1 there's been a stigma that two characters having a close-ish and or beneficial relationship automatically means shipping, and while I liked what came out of it, I wouldn't call "Lucky Charms" canon, nor would I have ever considered it to be them being gay. It was a very Gon-Killua situation, where it didn't feel right to just yeet the two into a couple just because they had antithetic Semblances and Clover had a positive influence on Qrow as a character. On a personal note, I don't feel like representation is a necessity, because I'm confident I could easily recognize a valid ship when I see one(I watch anime for christ's sake, gays and lesbians surprisingly abound in the medium), and from what I can see, it would be detrimental to BOTH characters to simply characterize their relationship as them being romantically interested in one another, because that inherently points out: - Clover was doing the things he was doing with either the goal or indirect motivation of romance, thus lessening his role as an ADULT Paragon(which I feel was slightly wasted since he and Ruby didn't get a lot of screen time together, but I digress). - Qrow wasn't actually changing due to influence, but rather because of romantic pressure. - That the only reason there was a meaningful connection between the two was because of the underlying romance. Which is a pretty bad theme for the show because it suggests that Lancaster might eventually be a thing(and those would be dark days). - It has an implication that CRWBY either doesn't understand, or doesn't WANT to understand the things I stated above about adult men needing to be in a space with other adult men. Qrow spent every last Volume up to 7 being the only real adult in the setting outside of Maria(who's just a child in an old lady body) and Lionheart. Clover being the first really decent man he's met in a while alleviates a lot of the pressure from him. Side note, anyone who says that two guys caring for one another is "gay" clearly has either never had a best friend before, or they grew up as a toxic and *legitimate* homophobe. What's often lost in more modern media is the positive relationships between men, not guys, not boys, but between two adult males; one of whom is in a not-so-good situation, and maybe just needed a positive influence to get him through that bad time. EDIT: I just want to clarify that I would have had no qualms with Qrow having a male partner, I just feel like there should have been more emphasis put on the peer-relationship rather than the romantic one. Double Edit: Unicorn pretty much said everything I said here in like the first 6 minutes, I just have a more negative affinity toward it ending up as a ship. Triple Edit: I think the negative stigma around Blake and Yang is that in Volume 5 they went and showed a weird prioritization thing where they only seemed to focus on each other, and were kinda- off from the rest of the group(which doesn't really make sense, but same/similar principle as still being lonely in a house full of people).

I LOVED the relationship between Qrow and Clover, romantic OR platonic. It was (in my opinion) very well written (up until the fever dream nightmare that was the last few episodes), and showed the healthy progression of someone getting over their alcohol abuse, self-esteem issues, and general pessimism enough to open up and actually Interact with people in a way that doesn't imply or outright conclude with their thinking of themselves as a horrible person. And, yes, Clover flirted with Qrow a lot in the first few episodes. But, quite frankly, to me? Those first attempts seem less like actual flirting, and more like Clover making an almost last-ditch effort to get Qrow to realize that, hey, people care about you, *I* care about you, and I want to be your friend, because you need it. Like how someone would jokingly (or possibly not jokingly) flirt with someone they want to make friends with? So yeah. I personally see Fair Game as romantic, but if it's platonic that's fine too!

"And by whiskey I mean pizza, soda, and all eight seasons of Winx Club" - that got me to LOL! Thanx!

I thankfully rang the bell so I was notified when this was uploaded but it’s not showing up in my subscriptions

good video, you adressed so many of the points ive seen made on this topic.

Honestly I never saw lucky charms as a full relationship. I hope it would be but in my mind it never got to be. This looked more like they were both unsure of what the relation ship was and were just chilling because their jobs were more important at the time. It just never got to progress. My biggest issue isn't even the bury the gays thing because I never saw it as that. My issue was Qrow deciding to embody his fairytale and fucking ditch his brain in that fight. That score to settle shit came ut of nowhere and just seemed like an excuse to have a death which is utter bullshit. I hated that fight on a narrative level because Qrow should've teamed with Cloverin that fight because obviously Tyrion was a higher priority target and Clover and Qrows fight should've come after they caught tyrion. Maybe Qrow could've killed him in a blind rage after unknowingly breaking his aura. Or hell maybe Tyrion just kills him in their fight with his aura breaking semblance. I just hated the team up becaue it was such an obvious trap.

16:32 (TL;DR at the end) I heard that argument too But to be applied to the series, dating between the main cast of characters can cause the creators to focus too much on the relationship of two people rather that’s the relationship of the team And I’m not saying that I can’t be done because it can It’s just that Roosterteeth hasn’t put given us a heart to heart moment and I know they can because of the endings of season 1 and 2 of Camp Camp (I have watched any other seasons if there are more) which I swear to god almost had me in tears because Max was a little shit head throughout the entire series but these two endings especially the second had me almost if not crying and not only that but with the character depth that we get from Season 2 finale everything clicks All of his swearing and bad attitude was all because of his parents I wanted to use that example because that is a very hard subject to handle... made in a series that supposed to be comedic Yet here with a series that’s supposed to be dark and menacing, the subjects are covered with no where near the same care (the scene with Ironwood’s PTSD is perfect and is in the safe zone) But everything else has been handled with no care It would’ve been great back in volume 4 or 5 to see Blake looking at a picture of the team with Yang crying over it or at least show something that she misses Yang but there is absolutely nothing And it’s really bad in 5, 6, and 7 TL;DR For a series that supposed to dark and series it takes care of its sensitive subject matter like it a joke. (Being a RU-vidr would make all of this writing worth it lol) (Also sorry for the rant and for it not making sense) I agree with a a good majority I would’ve just reworded some things though Last edit: I was genuinely pissed at how they have controlled their LGBT characters I honestly want leagues better not just from Roosterteeth but for the film industry as a whole

yare yare daze...here we go...

Lol, thanks very much for putting this together. I feel like so many people commenting on this video didn't actually watch the video in full--not just that they didn't enjoy it or agree with it, but that they straight-up (lol) stopped watching two minutes in, and that makes me sad both within myself and on your behalf. There's too much insight here to be missed, and I hope that some of these people come back and give it another go-around. This fandom needs more content creators like you.

I personally think that this an excellent video, even though I personally disagree with a lot of your opinions, this is a conversation that needed to be had about representation in RWBY and western media in general and I completely agree with you and Alex that RWBY really does take after magical girl shows more than shonen, as far as transformation senquences go... Monty just chose to do it with everyone's (named) weapons.

I myself am one of RWBY's WLW fans and I agree with most of the arguments made here. I personally read Qrow and Clover's interactions as platonic, but I can also 100% see why some fans (especially MLM ones) would think otherwise. I don't agree with Clover being brought back to live for the same reasons you mentioned. I'm a writer myself, so I know that resurrection has a very fine line in storytelling between being a good idea and a terrible one, as you said it many times can take away the stakes because it makes it feel as though if a character dies it doesn't matter since they can just be brought back again. In addition to that, I like the idea of Clover's arrogance backfiring since most of the volume he relied heavily on his semblance, seemingly believing that it would prevent ANYTHING bad from happening to him at all, so him dying due to this, from a fellow writer's perspective, was pretty good. I do agree though that before that episode CRWBY should have made an announcement that Lucky Charms would not become canon as anything more than a bromance.

Hey can you post your full review for Volume 7 broken up like this? I wanna know what you thought, but I can’t watch a two hour video no matter how hard I try.

My issue with representation in western anime is the fact that instead of doing it properly they think representation means make everyones gay/lesbian and thats the only thing they bring to the table. Blake is a perfect example. She is literally there just to pander to a ship at this point. Same with yang she is no longer yang anymore.

While I agree with sentiment that representation should be equal in media there is a caveat to that in the fact the author/creator of the work has the right to showcase what they want in their story. Forcing representation into media might only lead to it being superficial and not real. If the representation helps further the plot or world building then perfect if it doesn't serve either purpose it feels shoehorned in and just doesn't feel real or natural within the world that is being built by the author or creator. I feel of course for the underrepresented in media and absolutely feel that the representation should start happening more but if it doesn't feel real, it would just feel like placation rather than true representation. I wish nothing but the best for humanity no matter the skin color, ethnicity, sexual orientation, and gender get representation because at the end of the day, We are all human.

I have watched both this video and your Volume 7 review multiple times and I feel like this is the right time to throw my two cents into this discussion. Since I like to wait til all the episodes are out to binge watch the series in one whole, I get spoilers from all sides and, since I do not fear spoilers, I knew Qrow was gonna get a partner who was going to die by the end of the Volume going into this. As a rookie writer, I see why they decided to kill off Clover in favour of Qrow's character development. It can either make Qrow go back to his self-destructive ways, making him go down on a dark path that can create interesting dynamics with him, his nieces and family, specifically Tai and Raven, or use this as an opportunity to really take a good hard look at himself and the people around him who love and care about him. It can be, as coined by superhero stories, his 'Uncle Ben Moment', the moment where a character loses someone they care about and use that as their drive to make sure nothing like that never happens again to them and to people around them. And it gives him a great motivation to impale Tyrian on his sword more than ever before. All of that said, I still felt sad when they killed off Clover. I grew to love him despite my knowledge of what happens him and I never expected to ship him and Qrow as much as I do. Yes, still do. I acknowledge the canon of them as friends and fully approve of them being two guys with a close and quirky bromance but I feel like it could have been better for both Qrow and the show to make their relationship romantic but have a healthy bromance between Qrow and Ironwood. Not only could Qrow use more close people around his own age but it could have been a good way to explore more of James' character outside of his paranoia and make his fall into fear-filled madness even more gut-punching than it already was but also give him a way out of that mess via his bonds with Winter and Qrow. There would also be no need to kill off anyone to further Qrow's development since Ironwood's decent into madness can be viewed as a death of a character in it's own right and a more effective one at that. It could also give Qrow a good opportunity to actually learn about the Atlesian lifestyle, giving him a better understanding of Ironwood, Winter and, of course, Clover. Also, Qrow, Ironwood and Oscar bonding over stories about Ozpin over non-alcoholic drinks, giving the two older men a more human moment and giving Oscar an opportunity to express his feelings about the whole 'an ancient wizard is sharing my body and mind' situation but also gaining a different perspective on the man that isn't filled with suspicion and betrayal. In short: making Lucky Charms/Fair Game a romantic relationship and having that bromance with Ironwood saves Clover and kills multiple Nevermores with only a pebble. And before anyone says a bromance between Qrow and Ironwood isn't possible thanks to their interactions in Volume 3, are you blind? Did you see the hug in episode 2? And yes, this whole rant was inspired by that one scene because because I like seeing the birb man happy, dammit! Thank you and good night!

Miraculous Ladybug, a *kids* show, literally has better representation. Characters who are People of Color are treated like normal people and are equal to every other character. LGTBQ+ characters are given attention too, but they aren’t treated like plot devices.

I can't read people for shit so I just went off Qrow's blatant expression of his interest in women from previous seasons and it's still hard for me to piece together the vibe Lucky Charms shippers get off of their scenes together. Though this is coming from someone who'd have to be outright told someone's feelings for them so I'm a garbage judge.

Everything you said was right and Yang is bi because in volume 1 in response to ruby saying " I don't think dad would apove the boys" and yang said "I do" with a look a her face

Bullshit men are nice to each other my friend Kyle cares about me and he’s not gay he’s helped me and made me feel better about myself and WERE JUST BROS !! He helped me wanna get closer to god

UoW you’re a king ily 😭💞

Can someone tell me what RU-vidr Thomas was talking about?

If Qrow were to ever have a love interest. That love interest having a good luck semblance would've been #1 on things that love interest had. It feels too obvious. Sure they could've been just two bros, but really? How do you put a character with a good luck semblance and a character with a bad luck semblance, together in the same room and not ship them?

I’m sorry but I strongly disagree with you on the Yang’s PTSD. It didn’t hinder her at all during that battle with Adam. She was kicking his ass thoroughly through out that entire fight. She wasn’t strongly at all or desperately trying to overcome the “fear” she had towards Adam. Her fist shaking means absolutely nothing when it served no purpose.

I love all your content so much and since so much of it relates to Rwby, could you do a video abt what the series as a whole is abt? I rly want to know so I can enjoy more of your content. I absolutely love your wind club series too

I usually don't comment on videos but the quote "Because I hate alcohol but I need something unhealthy to cope with." Is such a mood that I can totally understand.

I don't like how clover dies however i don't think he should come back because it would destroy to much of the stakes also hell if he came back why not just have pyrah back too

Ever since rwby chibi, its always been tai qrow for me. Also because of the joke of Tai getting with all of team STRQ.

I love that you show a clip of Ruby and Sapphire

My mom quit smoking cold turkey like that. When I was 5 I discovered that smoking kills people so I had an absolute tantrum, ran to my mother in tears screaming about how I don’t want her to die and she just quit smoking this instant. The concept of death really freaked me out to begin with and seeing my mom use something that would make her die sooner. And she said seeing me so distraught at the thought of her dying gave her the motivation to quit. One of my favorite stories ☺️ lol

No views 2 likes RU-vid you're drunk go home

Spoken too much on this, so I’m just gonna copy/paste. Guys... if you saw them as platonic, that’s fine. Literally fine. Because like Ive told others before, the shipping aspect was only the *tip* of the iceberg. most critics and fndm can agree Clover was non-het, and liked him for that. Even the animator made him flirt with Qrow. some liked Qrow and Clover’s dynamic and wished to see it grow in future interactions with each other. some people liked that Qrow now had a support structure that could include *actual adults,* and not just children, or an immortal in a *child’s body.* some just felt like Clover acted as the fndm’s mouthpiece to finally tell their favorite character “on god we’re going to get you some self-love” and some people...just felt like seeing Qrow trying to abstain and lead a healthier life and mindset gave them courage to do the same. and these moments were usually brought out in interactions with Clover.(a family member of mine goes to AA, and an important thing that Clover did when Qrow stumbled over his alcoholic past was not judge, or even so much as reference it. That’s...That’s like so important. That scene was such a good one despite how short it was.) Hopefully what I’m getting across is, the criticism for killing off that character was Not just a ship thing, and to say so is inaccurate and kind of alienates people from banding with other critics in hopes of CRWBY listening to a larger number of voices.

It might just be my total and complete incompetence but I don't know what Tyrianns semblance is someone please tell me.

This is why I love your channel

I don't handwave the notion that Qrow and Clover were ever supposed to be a couple, my issue with this apply's to shipping in general regardless of gender. Too often people make the mistake of thinking a relationship should be all that defines a charachter so when two charachters are together and they have any kind of affection toward each other the response is to instantly think they'll be a couple. This is why in order for me to get behind a couple they must have clear solid reasoning that their going to get together. Yang and Blake for example I have no trouble believing that their going to be a couple. The build up has been much stronger than people think for it I noticed signs of it even back when they had that heart to heart in season 2 and as time has gone on it just became stronger. Representation does matter but just as it's important for same sex couples to be seen as normal. I think it's just as important for people to see that two people can still really care about each other and not be in a relationship. Steven Universe was my first real exposure to that and Garnet is now one of my favorite girl charachters same goes for Pearl. The relationship Ruby and sapphire have does'nt define them and Pearl's feelings toward Rose are'nt all there is to her charachter either. This is my point, no matter what I want charachters to be treated as three dimensional and not just objects that only exist to be a couple both by writers and the viewers.

Great video! I’m not mlm, but I am LGBTQ and I was upset about Fair Game and how it ended. This was a great explanation that respects the audience and analyzes the writer’s process well. It also comforts those who were hurt while still discouraging attacks on fans or other writers. Thank you!

Just wondering. @7:24 you use a phrase that I never heard before. What language is it and what does it mean?

So I don't know if I'm just dumb but what dose cys mean.

Im all for the lucky charms ship, to each their own. I am a straight male but i have guy friends i hug affectionately and even emotionally support them the same way i do a SO but this is an absolutely hetero action no sexual tension and you know what its perfectly fine.

And straight couples get turned down/ ridiculed for not representing gays so I'm tired of this. Like who you want but don't ridicule either side of the fence. Gays are great straight is great and in all honesty neither side had to represented in rwby, but they did.

So when you're doing these RWBY discussion videos, how do you script/create them? I ask because I want to do my own RWBY discussions you know not only discussing how characters and other aspects of the series could be expanded upon, fixed, or asking what-ifs to certain situations. Though I should warn you I'm looking for the best positive outcomes for these "What ifs" for a few reasons 1) everyone's already got enough depressing things in this fandom/community 2) Apathy and hatred are just wastes of time and resources in my opinion and 3) Everyone else in the community already does a better job of darkening the series than I ever could. I'm just concerned that people may not accept my ideas or videos, because they might just see me as another version of you, and that some people might think I'm being too optimistic. I never got to meet Monty (I still wish I could), I'm still not sure what he intended for his series [(some say he wanted the villains of RWBY to not be irredeemably evil(?), I'm not really sure about that (in a neutral approach)], but I still see him as a hero in his own way, he helped us to keep moving forward, to preserve life, and to be indomitable... I hope to use the gifts of knowledge and choice to preserve the beauty and good this series may have, not destroy and desecrate it like it's a plague. Instead of seeing RWBY as a failed experiment, I only see missed opportunities. Opportunities that could be expanded upon, repaired, rearranged, or capitalized upon if we actually take the time to study them. I'm not sure how much angst I can fit into my own version of RWBY which is yet another one of my concerns. Would my version of RWBY actually feel like RWBY? or would it be a different universe altogether? because there will always be people who say "life isn't like a fairy tale, there are no happy endings here" to which I say "I don't care" IDC if people think negatively of my optimist approach, because they may have problems of their own that I don't fault them for, and if it's not their cup of tea then it's not their cup of tea. Will I be covering somewhat controversial topics such as " Adam, Bumblby, Volume 5, and more"? most certainly. Because I only see missed opportunities and not failures (even though you may try to disprove me later on). Adam is one of my favorite villains simply because of his design and the sympathetic angle they were going for with the leader of a rebellion and a mentor figure to one of our main heroines (I think that was a really big MO for him to be an important character in not only Blake and Yang's character arcs, but to be an enemy to the entirety of team RWBY). I'm not very big on ships like most people (I'm completely fine with Blake and Yang becoming a couple, it's just how they're missing so many opportunities to flesh it out or rearrange it so that it fits into the story). So that's basically it, I don't mean to offend you or anyone within this fandom, I just wanted to come here and ask a question along with typing up some concerns of mine. I actually like you and Lord Draco Nick 67's approaches to RWBY in a sort of 60% civil, 30% fun, 15% lively, and 15% positive outlook style which I kind of want to go for myself. Anyway, I hope you keep moving forward, create great content and have a wonder full day/night P.S. It was you, Celtic Phoenix, and Draco who got me hooked onto rewriting RWBY, so thank you all for that. I also watch Vexed, Adel, and others just for some ideas that I can agree with

*the time has come*

Qrow is a awesome character and I love his growth in the series. Honestly the Branwen twins in general are great.

I'm not a huge fan of the Bumblebee ship...actually, that's an understatement. I straight up don't like it. Mostly because Blake has better chemistry and an overall better dynamic with characters like Sun and Ilia, whereas Yang has a good relationship/chemistry with....honestly, no one but her Dad. Yang's had nothing but lackluster relationships with everyone around her while Blake has had better built relationships with other characters. Having those two suddenly decide they're in love just feels like a downgrade for Blake and a contrived way of a giving Yang someone to have meaningful interactions with (because lord knows she hasn't been getting any of that from her uncle or her sister). That's Bumblebee in a nutshell. Contrived. Even worse than Korrasami (I still think she should have ended up with Bolin but that's a discussion for a different day). The fact that it seems to be the CRWBY's OTP makes the lack of effort in it even worse.

Me, seeing this video pop up in my feed: “Hoo boy we doing this?”

I am confused so were qrow and clover in relation or not

my problem is when representation is used as a character trait and is just a token lgbt character

Ok sooo without hate, I feel like they would’ve done Lucky Charm if it weren’t for their limits on episodes. They definitely were going for something deeper but could only have 12 episodes to get the plot through. It’s not that they need to value character moments over plot but they need to extend their episodes count. Yes more character moments are needed but we also need more plot to balance. Anyways if they had more time I feel like they would’ve given Clover a longer arc with Qrow definitely ending in a relationship and then Clover’s death. Now the death would play a harder part on Qrow and how he feels about the villains and life itself. With them trying to push a Volume every year I feel like they rush and cut out a lot of arcs and everything. I want them to take their time with volume 8 and make sure they get in everything they want to without rushing.

I can't find this video on my subscription feed or when I search it up, only on your channel, I think RU-vid did something

3:45 I disagree with your statement here. If anything, I'd say it was just like every other theme/social commentary/plot point/character arc/world building element that the writers tried to tackle: they never committed to it! Yang's PTSD is reduced to her shaking her hand from time to time, but it never hinders her daily life or combat skills like would in a case like this. Go search for any documentary about war veterans who lost their limbs and see how they detail their lives when they were brought back to the civil life. This is on the same level of Samus' PTSD in Other M - it shows up only during that infamous Ridley scene, but never prior or after that. Same with Qrow's alcoholism. It is not easy to let go of an addiction, and given Qrow's personality, past failures, loss of trust in the only person he believed blindly in, he should be struggling far more with that decision. His character should be dealing with withdrawal symptoms, temptation to return to the thing that eases the pain, and that in turn should have made the characters around him respond to that shift in his behavior. But neither of these concepts were properly addressed. In the end, RWBY is a show about cool concepts, but no commitment to any one of those ideas introduced in the show. They merely scratch the surface to make the audience think there's something deep and thought provoking there! Same thing with representation: the show has its share of lesbians and some gay hints sprinkled here and there, but they never commit to tell a story with those elements. They're just background noise! And yes, that includes Bumblebee!