Why Nora Should've Become the Winter Maiden | RWBY 

Gods, just imagining Nora screaming “this is for Phyria” fills me with sadness that we’ll never actually see that

The way things are going Jaune will be the summer maiden

Giving the maiden power to Penny to subvert expectations and prove she's just as human as any of the other characters: 10/10 Penny being turned into a flesh and blood human and immediately killed: 1/10

Personally, I don't mind the IDEA of Winter becoming the maiden, even via Penny's death, but you really hit the nail on the head with how the two just don't interact enough to sell it properly. Ignoring how I think Ironwood suddenly turning evil was dumb on it's own, I wish at least Winter had opted to not be on the effectively "bad guys" side for the whole volume, and instead was working with Penny and the others to allow that bond to be properly established. Your "Thor Ragnarock-Nora with Pink lightning" sounds rad as balls and I'm now mad it's not real XD

So here's something I realized: The reason they made Ruby fall so early is so they could justify Penny not giving the maiden powers to her, because Penny thought she was already dead. It's still bad, to be clear. But I think that was why they went with such a bizarre decision to KO Ruby only halfway through like that.

When you said Nora should have been the one to kill Penny, I instantly imagined Nora smashing Penny's head like a watermelon. Damn.........

I think the most frustrating thing is that you can see the writers going "Haha! You expected Nora to become the Winter Maiden simply because every writing rule would indicate that she would! But we made Winter the Maiden instead! Aren't we so clever and subversive?"

I'll be honest, I never interpreted that scene where they're in Schnee manor and Winter tells Penny she "wouldn't understand" as Winter revealing she doesn't see Penny as a real person, I just interpreted it as it was presented at surface level. Winter said "you wouldn't understand", and meant it as "this is a very personal matter, no one who didn't go through the same thing would understand, including you", but Penny, carrying doubts about her own real person status interprets it as "you're a machine, you wouldn't understand emotions". Winter picks up on this and clarifies her meaning to Penny by saying "this place holds a lot of memories for me specifically". I always got the impression that Winter saw Penny sort of like a child, still a real person, but in need of a lot of life lessons.

The writers are so fucking scared of giving Nora any identity beyond Ren. In volume 7, standing with Mantle put her in opposition to Ren. In early volume 8, her internal conflict was fuelled by her relationship with Ren. In later volume 8, Ren confesses, but she asks for time to figure herself out- so _no matter what,_ Ren is still her finish line. Right now, she's defined as 'not Ren's girlfriend _yet.'_ If she had gotten the powers, she would have been defined as a Maiden, giving her a clear direction to explore her identity, and as stated in the video, realize herself as a protector of the people. But instead of expanding on her volume 7 struggle to champion Mantle, her development is all about her strained relationship with Ren. And if Nora had become the Maiden, she would have become _much_ more important than Ren [and Jaune], so we can't have that now can we. The status quo _must_ be maintained. I wish Ren had told her that he doesn't love her the way she loves him. I wish they had subverted the hetero expectations of a boy and a girl inevitably falling in romantic love with each other. I wish Renora wasn't this destined thing at the end of their character development that MUST happen no matter what.

lesson of the day; why the side characters are getting the character archs that the main 4 should be getting

I thought making Winter the Winter Maiden was actually a great choice. What didn't make sense to me was making Penny the Winter Maiden only to kill her off shortly thereafter. To be honest I think my biggest gripe is what is the point of the Maidens if they are not going to be Team RWBY? Cause eventually I still see Team RWBY becoming the Maidens to defeat Salem. Cinder gives her power to Ruby, Winter to Weiss, Raven to Yang.

This idea though. You basically added Loki's frost powers into Nora, who is Thor. I like the idea of Nora being able to use ice powers. The motif of Thor and Loki combining into Nora is extremely satisfying. Especially when Nora conjures up Penny's swords on her back and Pyrrha's weapons in her hands for the first half of the fight against Cinder. Why is it that the fans of this show seemingly always have more interesting ideas than the writers of the show.

When penny died to Cinder, all that ran in my mind was: "Was this all a convoluted ploy to nerf penny so cinder can finally win????" -taking away her robot characteristics and whatnot. she was able to solo that fool and said fool had help I was so convinced Nora would have gotten the powers instead of Winter. Anyways, let me consume this amazing video 😩✋🏽 To me, the lack of restrictions and characteristics that a character needs to achieve or possess to obtain the maiden powers allows for such a random and unearned ping pong of the maiden powers. Fundamentally, I feel all of this just spiraled to disaster because of the lack of a clear vision for this unique aspect of the magic system - should I even call it a magic system? Since uhh "NO WAY MAGIC EXISTS?!"

I think the line of thinking during Penny's death was like: "Okay, this has to look deep and shit so... who's going to kill her?" "Oh, what about the person who killed her the first time?" "Pyrrha is dead, we can't use her" "Uh... what about that guy she had a crush on?" "Jaune?" "That's our guy 😎"

I agree 100 percent with this, but an extra thing I would've added is that when Ruby would kill Penny they have a similar shot with her eyes reflecting in gamble shroud but they'd light up from her emotional state and actually be seen in the blade. This would shock cinder a little giving Winter some time to run passed cinder to get to Weiss and help her get up. This way she's closer to the portal when Cinder blasts them so she can get through with Nora going in after and Ruby falling reaching for her.

Let's be honest, Jaune is literally just Miles self inserting himself into the series now, that's the only explanation for him randomly taking the plot hostage to be the main character and get scenes he doesn't deserve.

Remember back in V7 when we thought the last Winter Maiden was Nora's grandmother? good times. Back then I was split on who would get the powers because since V5 every current maiden was an enemy of the kingdom the powers originated from so Comrade Nora was a clear choice, but at the same time the maiden's are also kinda connected to the themes of their respective relics and Penny's a "creation". Despite the fact that two main characters are a heartbeat away from maidenhood I don't think any of the main characters will become maidens. RWBY's current meta is "take out the kids as quickly as possible so we don't have to animate their ridiculously complicated fighting styles and let the adults with simpler fight choreography handle things" and giving any of them maiden powers kinda runs counter to that. I really like the tie-in between Nora, Pyrrha, and their respective maiden journeys. However, that kind of implies that Nora and Jaune's gf were friends and teammates and there's nothing in the show to suggest that. (I did legit like it, I just can't stop throwing shade at the self-insert...and I just didn't it again, this is why I stopped watching)

CRWBY: Wow, what a great idea! Let's kill Winter off next season to give the power to Nora (or Weiss) instead! :D NO! Stop juggling Maiden power like a game of hot potato already! Do something interesting with both the power and its' user, instead of making them a very bland temporarily power up that mark the user for death in the next few episodes.

Honestly to me Nora’s character should’ve been handled differently than what we got for vol 7and 8. Just my opinion though. They could’ve done a bit better route than the whole relationship problem, identity and be strong and hit stuff cringe. I’m just saying. Yang being the spring maiden and Nora being the winter maiden sound great! I still wish we got a flashback to show how the schnee siblings broke in their own ways because of Jacques and in turn giving more meat to the reasons for why winter followed ironwood as she did. We need a video on ironwood and how his character got destroyed by the writers. This was a good video. Still wish Nora got a weapon upgrade on some stormbreaker level shit. That would be been awesome! 14:32 if there’s Norse mythology behind this tree it’s gonna be a lot of wasted potential for Nora. Hell even Neo since she could play a Loki like role for the next volume. Just an idea. Wouldn’t maiden Nora’s flame eyes match her eye color?

Okay, I lowkey love your rewrite of the finale in this video. It makes so much more sense. I was waiting for Nora to go full badass (other than absorbing so much electricity) in this volume and we didn't get that in cannon unfortunately

In terms of using the Maidens as narrative concepts, I at least think it made sense to introduce them to the audience in V3 through Pyrrha/Cinder first. It intrigued us in terms of what affect they’d have on the story, but by killing Pyrrha and benching Cinder for a volume, they were able to stretch out that intrigue. It was only in V5 that we would get a taste of the Maidens’ potential through Raven vs Cinder. Granted, all of that still could’ve been written better, but I think putting those powers in the hands of a side character and a villain prevented any premature power creep in the main cast. … With all of that said, I really don’t think it makes sense to still be passing the Maiden powers off to yet ANOTHER side character in Volume fucking 8. Penny and Nora have been with us since the first volume, so I still consider them “main cast” even if they aren’t part of the titular quartet. Letting them be Maidens is a good compromise because they’ve got enough familiarity to the main cast to have compelling conversations about the struggles of their new abilities. This helps to keep the Maiden dilemma relevant to the plot and central characters w/o having to make all of Team RWBY the Maidens themselves. Imo, Winter inheriting the powers just isolates the Maiden plot further from the core cast at a point in the story where we’re actually gonna NEED those powers lol. By keeping such plot-relevant abilities these side characters, I think just distracts the audience from Team RWBY even more. If the story wants to talk about the Spring Maiden, that’ll only be relevant to Yang and not the team. If we wanna talk about Winter, that’s only for Weiss; same for Fall and Ruby. I don’t think the main four can afford to have the spotlight taken off of them any more than it already has been… My only solace is that the writers had the foresight(?) to gender-lock these Maiden powers, or else the entire B-plot of this show would’ve been dedicated to getting these powers to Jaune lmao 🙄.

Rwby really is Whose Line Is It Anyway. Where everything's made up and the previous episodes don't matter.

If I recall correctly, the maiden powers ONLY transfer to the person in the final thoughts of the victim (otherwise it's randomized). I don't remember the exact phrasing, but the explanation in Volume 3 was that if a maiden were to be killed, the chances of the killer being the last person they remember is pretty high, since y'know, they killed them. But that's the thing. Killing a maiden doesn't GUARANTEE the powers, it's just way more likely. Now, if the victim was alone like with Amber, the killer being the last thought is expected. But Penny is surrounded by her friends, which are literally everyone else she would rather give the powers to than Cinder. Imagine this, Cinder kills Penny, she falls over and sees one of the girls before closing her eyes and dying. BOOM the powers go to them rather than Cinder. Alternatively, have Jaune rematch Cinder while Weiss talks to a dying Penny instead. Jaune can lose, but buys enough time and Penny's last conversation is with Weiss, hence she's the last person in her thoughts, and BOOM Weiss becomes the Winter maiden. How difficult is that? I honestly have a hard time believing Penny would think of Cinder as the last thought when her friends are fighting right beside her. She doesn't have to be killed by any of the protagonists for the powers to transfer, literally, you can still have Cinder kill Penny, that way we hate her more for all I care. We don't need needless melodrama when a better solution is right there. Am I being weird or is this a thing that should have happened?

Personally, it’s very hard to believe any of these characters are as good of friends with each other as the show tells me they are because the show doesn’t show me that they are. Even the siblings (Ruby and Yang only, the dynamic between Winter and Weiss waaaaaay better) can barely convince me that they are siblings with how often they forget about each other. Honestly, the show could use a fresh restart, like what Celtic Phoenix is doing. It’s really hard to get invested in any character arc the show proposes because the odds that the character who received the arc gets either forgotten or ruined in the next Volume is very high.

Something I noticed while watching the last few volumes 6 7 and 8 is that Nora Penny and Oscar all have a lot of different things in common or they parallel each other in many ways especially opinion Oscar and I wish they interacted as well especially considering they're struggling with their identities and taking on roles that have to do with magic and responsibility of taking care of the world and I think that would have been nice especially considering how Nora gets along and seems like she could be a sister figure to both of them

11/10! You worded it all so perfectly! Also, now I really wish Nora had at least have been the one to fall with the rest of team RWBY!

I thought that the writers were actually setting this up at the beginning of the volume, with how Nora and Penny were becoming closer friends and Nora was having an arc about becoming something more than just the one who’s strong and hits stuff. Seemed like a logical idea to make Nora the maiden, but instead they give the role to Winter, a side character. It’s become obvious at this point that the maidens may as well be the main characters, which makes me wish they’d actually give the powers to a main character, especially a member of team RWBY who seem to be falling by the way side right now.

love this idea but i still can't stand the fact that penny dies a SECOND time. not only that, but her whole story arc this season just felt like a self-sacrificial person getting what they wanted in the end, instead of learning that their life has value. i significantly prefer the way she-ra handled that kind of story in season 5, highly recommend if you haven't already seen it. anyways thanks for another great vid! always love hearing your perspective

It’s frustrating they keep giving Jaune all that unnecessary attention. Although I didn’t have a problem with winter becoming the winter maiden, Nora would have been a great successor as well

Thank you for this. Ren and Nora are the most overlooked people in the RWBY franchise. Nora as the Winter Maiden and Ren as her protector (hey, she does have to sleep and she's vulnerable then) are things VOLUMES could be written of.

I’d love Nora as a maiden, think of her fighting style plus maiden powers. It’d be awesome! Come someone write a fanfiction or a celticpheonix style rewrite? I need this!

"However, we're working with what's on screen, and what's on screen isn't enough." How dare you, maybe if you read Supplemental Lore Book #372 it would make sense.

Hoping to see Nora by episode 5 of Volume 9, probably to give a comedic or lighter mood from reuniting and since she’s usually absent for at most 4 episodes. Also after Ruby and Oscar, she has the most potential in Volume 9

The thing that bothers me about Winter becoming the Winter Maiden is that Penny was never trying to gatekeeper the powers. She was literally the only one who could get to Freya at the time being a machine as nether Winter nor Cinder could even touch the cold barrier Freya created. So it was ether Penny went to Freya who was waist deep in the grave at this point, or they ether risk Cinder somehow getting past the barrier and getting the power, or they loose the maiden powers entirely. And afterwards penny didn’t trust Ironwood with the powers. Not that she didn’t trust Winter, but the last time she sees her she’s in bad condition. In the end Penny could have ether given the powers to Ruby, who she offers them to her earlier. Weiss, who is the last one remaining who could get the powers and could use them to fight off Cinder. Or Nora who she knows is already past the portal and out of Cinders grasp. Even if somehow penny did think Winter was “ready,” how would she know? The only time Winter was mentioned to penny in Volume 8 was when the Ace Ops were trying to emotionally manipulate her. In the end it feels like Penny gave winter the powers because she was guilted into it because she was always “supposed,” to get them.

Anyone else think the Silver Eyes are pointless?

This show literally killed my favorite character twice. The only reason I still acknowledge its existence is to watch your content

Yang and Nora being the maidens of spring and winter would be so great, Nora getting the power so she can protect her friends while trying to prevent another Pyrrha and Yang getting the power after Raven was killed to find out her mother cared for her and protected and watched from a far while hiding from Ozpin and Salem. Yang seeing Raven's memories. Or instead of Yang or Raven being the maidens it's Vernal and she joins the crew and respecting their rule breaking and going against the adults so that they can win the war. Salem realizing that she needs to up her game because now they have 2 maidens, a Relic, and Oz back. Penny not being turned into a human by Ambrosios and him telling her after he bought her back "I am a creator but I can not make something human, I can not bring your friend back human. Being human does not being flesh and bones but the means of a soul, heart, and a mind"

Winter being Winter maiden It’s like Cinder falling down Penny life value is at little Ironwood having Iron heart Clover having lucky semblance Okay I’m thinking that they are people are basing there action on names -------------------- Besides puns: I thought that Penny would have given her power to Ruby. They are close together and as op it might be it be leading more force grand destiny and being her main protagonists. We learn about maiden capacity since it appear we finished with sliver eyes. But that just me

Listening to the rewrite of Nora getting the Maiden Powers made me realize something crucial about RWBY. The writing isn't the worst thing, but MAN does it drop the ball sometimes. It has a habit of setting itself up for the easiest layup, the most effortless dunk, only to throw the ball outta bounds. Nora had so much going for her in V8 with her struggling to find her own identity outside of Ren, speaking out against Ironwoord's actions, concern for the people of Mantle, risking her own life, and words of inspiration towards Penny. She had all the makings to be the next Maiden, but for some reason, she was shoved to the wayside. Now, I'm not saying that Winter being the Winter Maiden is terrible, but Nora as the Winter Maiden would've been a much better payoff, especially after all she went through.

Pietro sacrificing his life to Penny would be really bad tho since he is poc and disabled. Both minorities that deserve much better in media. Also this series already has such a big issue either killing off so many poc, vilifying them, or sidelining them. Like I’m actually worried the writers will eventually bring back Penny in this way. Also Penny shouldn’t have sacrificed herself period, considering she has so much suicidal ideation throughout V8. It’s honestly triggering and very icky they decided to have the things transpire the way they did. Her friends also spending the whole volume saying she deserves to be around, and fighting so much to keep her around. Only to have it not play out that way felt very cruel, and a very unsatisfying pay off to Penny’s arc. Self sacrifices can work just not in this context imo. Especially if it’s suppose to be finally giving a character agency that they’ve felt so deprived of, and a character that prior kept insisting to be killed. I’m not criticizing what you said considering you made it clear that you were gonna keep the things way went in that scene. I just brought this up because I feel nobody really has made a video to address how that aspect in the writing of Penny’s death is disgusting. That it should warrant more criticism.

Protags that I think are doing well this season: Oscar, Penny, Nora and Ren Every other protags: *sipping tea* and *don't fight the grimm when mauling oscar*

I hadn't considered this before, but this actually REALLY works. And if there was some sort of bond between the souls of the previous maidens, then there could be the opportunity to act on the fact that Fria looked remarkably similar to Nora by making her her actual grandmother and giving Nora some closure about her family she may never have had. And my rewrite ideas were just the low-hanging fruit of Jaune basically defibrillating Penny back to life.

You brought up a great point. It would’ve made more sense for Penny to pass the power to Nora being that she actually developed a bond with her versus with Winter. And the criteria for the maiden powers passing on just seems… I just don’t get the point of the maidens anymore. Like it’d be something if by gathering the powers of the maidens, something miraculous happens (like how gathering the princesses of heart in kingdom hearts one opens a door to Kingdom Hearts etc).

Watching this video made me realize that in RWBY the characters rarely talk about personal things that happened in previous volumes An example: Yang never talked to Blake about her leaving and Blake never tries to explain why she ran away in the first place You can argue that Weiss already explained what happened in that conversation they had But Blake doesn't even apologize for leaving or for what happened to her arm (Yeah, I know it wasn't her fault, but it fits her character) Are you going to try to sell me the idea that all it took was one conversation with Sun to stop her from blaming herself for things beyond her control? Okay, go ahead But how did that stop her from apologizing for leaving Yang at such a difficult time in her life? Even Ruby looked more sorry when Yang found her in vol 5 It just... doesn't feel natural to me

Like what erks me the most is that we have a repeat of "Ohhh the teachers of the schools are actually baddies." With Mistral's and now Atlas' headmasters. Though be it they have different routes of becoming e v i l, it's still a rinse and repeat. Now that we are in Vacuo, is the headmaster gonna be evil as well??? Was Vale the only GOOD school with goody two shoes faculty?? Ironwood was literally part of the Maiden Protection Squad, he should have been more involved with protecting the Maidens, maybe guiding them to protect themselves and would really be nice to see him as the father role he was meant to be for Winter and Penny (Also Nora who really had no parental figure.)

The shade on Cinder/Salem is always present And I love it ❤️ Honestly, every time I watch your RWBY videos, I keep waiting for the moment when you talk about them Cuz you're right every time

I dont mind winter getting the powers but everything they did with the winter power from volume 7-8 feels point less especially with penny art if they were just going to have winter be the winter ma maiden in the first place or even at the end they should just made winter the winter maiden I don't think they're going to make any of the girls on Ruby's team maidens at least I really hope they don't they already seem a bit Opie with some of their moves and stuff especially when you look back on earlier volumes especially volumes one through four with their fighting styles What I'm really hoping for is at some point without having to kill the mating somehow Oscar will get Oz's power back after they merge But I but I have to agree more than anything that Nora should have become the winter mating but what I'm really hoping for is that That volume before last cinder somehow gets killed off cuz let's be honest we don't need her being around in the last few volumes are in the last two volumes we should be focused on Salem and the gods of light and dark at the end of it especially since they're all going to be going back to beacon trying to get the last relic and only cinder can unlock the vault I think that Nora should end up becoming the fall maiden in Phyrra place

RWBY; A show that's so empowering for women that a powerful female character randomly decides that she wants to die and let a man she barely knows and talks to kill her so that all the attention could be all on him

Given who Jaunes VA is. It's just creepy and cringe of how much screentime they've been giving him. He absolutely has no reason to be with the girls in Volume 9. HE HAS HIS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. NORA WOULDVE BEEN PERFECT.

The Whole Jaune killing Penny thing kinda reminds me the Point that another RU-vid Creator, hbomberguy, pointed out. He was a self insert of one of the creators. He's also voiced by one of the creators. Neptune was suppose to be the other, but he got scrapped with how people raised all hell because of it. Actually I think you would enjoy watching his video because he puts into perspective so someone who tried it, but saw the flaws right away, and wished there were more. He does make the same points but he adds to it a bit more as to why it's a problem in a story telling standpoint and maybe it may give ideas to your own versions of Rewrites. (Your video about the Lost Fable and His video are ones that got me trying out a complete AU version of RWBY set in a future version of a world of my own Creation which actually just tears down the plot foundation and reworks it. Still figuring out how I want to handle the Artifacts Vs Maiden thing because Not sure which will work better in my set up. Artifacts or Maidens (though third option is have the Maidens IN the artifacts and the artifacts choose their wielder, but that seems a bit kitschy).

This was a fantastic video and I feel so cheated that it didn't happen. Would you ever consider doing a video on the state of Jaune? I truly believe that he is a very good boy, the goodest, but the way he's been written as a cringe self insert who is at the centre of everything is also hard to stomach. I really think there can be a balance of having him be the subversion of a main character cliché, but also a supporting character that does not upstage the others.

Nora makes so much more sense than Winter becoming the next maiden!!!

Literally got a RWBY tattoo. Haven’t been able to watch since like season 5. Videos like these are the only way I sorta know what the show is up to.

I genuinely thought they were building up to Nora getting the powers... I don't consistently keep up with RWBY anymore but Nora is probably my favorite character so I def felt a bit cheated

I feel like they could have done something interesting with Penny being turned human, but since she dies an episode after it happens it just ends up feeling like a way to kill her off for real since she's the only one besides confirmed immortal big bad who could come back from being killed

I was really hoping Nora would be it, but at some point Jaune took up some screen-time making me think they were gonna break the rules and make him...a maiden...or...if jaune wants to coin a male term for himself

Look, if Jaune was the one to get the Maiden powers from Penny, then I would excuse him killing her. But no. RT y'all are just experts in dropping the ball huh lmao But I really like this concept! Nora definitely deserves a more important role in the show.

I assume Winter was first friend of Penny but they underdeveloped that concept.

That require the writers to actually THINK.

I am not going to lie I have a feeling the reason Winter got them was actually because they intended for Weiss to get them in the end from Winter. They didn't know how to write that in logically after kinda writing themselves into a hole with the twist of Penny getting them since she and Roman both weren't initially intended to survive this long if I recall correctly. That's why we got the fake out with her and Weiss at the end. I'm not going to lie I honestly thougt she was going to get them from Penny then but I think the writers probably decided that was too OP for the team at this moment and not nearly as heart wrenching/ heartfelt as Weiss getting the powers from Winter even though this lined up to make more sense in the moment. I think it's that they hit a wierd indecisive spot with who to give the powers to and when to do so before all of team rwby probably ultimately gets them to face Salem with. Therefore it feels like we're just shoving them off on anyone ultimately expendable till we can kill them off so that each of the main team that gets powers have a reason to. I feel like Yang will get hers from Raven, Weiss from Winter, and Blake the summer maiden powers somehow. Then I think the remaining fall powers will go to someone important to Cinder or to Nora or Rwby depending on if they see Rwby getting them as well as her eyes as too op though I do agree I like the idea of Nora getting it her getting it makes a llot more sense

This would make too much sense, Nora becoming more like her Thor inspiration, inheriting the "protector of Mantle" from Penny, just being a powerhouse in general.

8.37 - you can't prove anything about my expenses. ANYTHING!

Ahhhhh this was wonderful! As always you have such a good grasp of satisfying character connections, and you really make the most of the arcs that the Show Itself builds up and then chronically forgets about every time. Even just THESE changes would have gone a long way towards fixing the end of this volume, though I can't wait to see your overall vision for the entire volume as a whole. Four for you, Unicorn of War! You go Unicorn of War!

I was so happy to see a new upload. Your V8 rewrite and a fantastic JNR V6 missing scene fanfic. Thanks for RWBY content that makes me feel fuzzy inside.

References to Twiin’s, Judgemental, Alison, a clear expression of your critiques, and presented in a very organized way. Subscribing now. I expect good things.

I'm so glad I'm not the only one that thought this and was floored by the writing 'subversion'/undoing all their own work

i think weiss would also be an interesting winter maiden bc pf her lack of trust in authority, as a maiden she’s be bound to the abstract authority of the greater hood and humanity as a whole, and it would be interesting to see her grapple with that (good to see is maybe a lil much)

I'm so glad you're finally back with your rwby content love it!

I really enjoyed this take on the ending of volume 8, you have some really compelling ideas and your outline works very well.😁 I agree that Winter shouldn't have become the Maiden, though for different reasons. I think that we should have gotten a short scene of her talking to Penny when they were coming up with the plan to take out Ironwood. Even if it was just over the phone. Winter should have shared that she has come to the realisation she only wanted the Maiden power to help Ironwood fulfil his goals and that she had no real desire for it herself. She craves the predictable stability and security of a command structure and being the Maiden would take her away from that. She should have had her moment to thank Penny for saving her from sacrificing her future to become Ironwoods puppet, instead of his trusted second in command, especially as she now sees that he is out of control and she has only just begun to go against his orders. What would she have willingly done to the people of Mantle and Atlas if she'd had the power all this time? It should horrify her. Then when Penny is injured and pleading with someone to help her end her life, she knows not to choose Winter. There is another thing I think is something of a missed oppertunity; Jaune's character moment. Everything would be the same as you outlined until the moment when they have to choose someone to go for help. How to stop that from being a problem? Easy; they aren't together on the same platform. They both join the fight. When Penny asks him to kill her, he refuses. She pleads and we get the moment of Jaune's reflection in his sword, his internal turmoil. And then he stows it away, picks up Penny and runs with her to the portal while Nora and Ruby help Weiss to distract Cinder and keep her busy. His archetype is a paladin; a defender who shields others from harm and heals the wounded. It would be a powerful moment for him to put away his sword and become the defender he is meant to be. To leave the fight with Cinder, not because he was forced to by Pyrrah, or because he was defeated, but by his own choice. To turn his back on his moment for revenge and focus on what is really important to him; saving the people he cares about. This will keep Penny as the Maiden, stop Jaune from falling and give Nora the chance to fall in his place. Ruby could even get a hit on Cinder with the blade of Gambol Shroud. This would help with Ruby's 'loss of innocence', or 'coming to terms with the reality of what she'll have to do to prevent the world ending threat', whichever is more to your taste, by having her spill the blood of her enemy for the first time. She freezes, looking at the bloody blade. Perhaps her silver eyes begin to painfully act up again. Cinder is enraged, and probably frightened by the flashing silver light, and attempts to blow her off the platform. Weiss steps in and takes the blast for Ruby... just as Winter enters from one of the portals. Cinder is surprised and annoyed to have gotten the wrong person, but Winter's impotent screams of rage and grief from so far away are amusing enough to soothe her ego, until a bright green blast nearly knocks her from the sky. She grins thinking its the Winter Maiden, only to notice that Penny is nowhere to be seen. She's escaped, and it was Winter who had attacked her, using Ironwoods super-gun-thing as she has no ranged attacks without her aura which was broken in the fight with Ironwood. Cinder decides to cut her losses and uses the staff. As for Nora, when they are all running for the portal, she notices Ruby falling behind and turns around, only Magnhild is caught in the disappearing portal just as it dematerialises and damaged. Nora and Ruby fall, while Magnhild malfunctions and automatically reconfigures itself back into a hammer and falls after them, as Mjolnir followed Thor to Earth. This will allow Nora to get some development along with team RWBY and Neo. In fact having Neo and Nora isolated together could really help the two of them shine as actual characters and not just the 'other half' of their respective duo's. Nora could later evolve her semblance with manefested lightning because her hammer has become just that, a plain hammer until it can be fixed. This way, when she becomes the Winter Maiden at a later date, she has already come to know herself and who she is. Her identity would then be complemented by the Maiden power, instead of being eclipsed by it.

Something inside Penny was swirling inside of her, and it wasn't the power of the Maiden. She didn't quite understand what it meant, but she knew it meant the end. "Will it hurt?" Penny asked her solemnly. Nora kneeled beside Penny and held her close, too pained to look her in the eyes. "I'll make sure it won't."

Once again you make a way better version of RWBY than the canon. We were completely robbed from Maiden Nora and I am very dissapointed as well. I have been thinking for so long that she was going to be the maiden, even before the finale came out :/

This was my hope the whole way through the season; every moment they were together and the connections between her and Penny paralleled one another so much. I've been watching this show for so long and since day 1 I felt like there was more to Nora; hell the most recent seasons show that. I waited with baited breath every episode with the hope that she'd get the maiden powers because the name of the first winter maiden we see is a nod to Norse Mythology. I had such high hopes and I can't imagine something more perfect than your rewrite. In my opinion Nora always had main character potential; but the events of each season blot her out. She and Phyrra were close, they relied on one another as a support, they gave advice to one another, they smiled and laughed with one another but we didn't see her openly greave her death only look bitter when she was brought up. For a long time she served as the muscle of the team; protecting her team mates (and team RWBY), be it emotionally or physically. She's been at the core of most of the main conflicts supporting everyone even to the point it could drain her mentally and we see that in this season. She begins questioning herself; everything she's done, how she feels like she's just a wall of meat that takes beating after beating for all the people around her while most of the time she doesn't get it back. She doesn't fully understand why she's fighting and what she's fighting for. Even Weiss can't fully understand the emotions she's experiencing and tells her to try and separate herself from Ren to try figure it out. Nora and Penny's relationship however in this season gave her that; it gave her more of that sense of self she needed, being someone who feels the emotions of others so much compared to Penny who as we know is a machine; something that normally couldn't understand the concept of emotions despite that then further pushing the narrative that Penny is human. Nora needed someone to help her understand her emotions; something which most her team and the main team don't seem to get either. Aside from Nora I'd say Penny is one of the most human and feeling characters in the show and I feel they needed to lean on one another to get to the point they did. Nora knowing that she's more than muscle, more than a wall of meat, more than Ren and Penny knowing that she's more than a robot, she's more than a virus. They're both thinking, feeling and emotional characters who want to protect their friends and the people of Mantle and understanding that leads them to being able to clearly fight for what they believe in. Nora and Penny instilled a sense of self in one another. This was an incredible video and I really loved it! Thank you so so so much for it. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your content; sorry for such a long post!!! 🥰😚

tbh I'm fine with winter being the winter maiden. and Nora would have been a better maiden. but I had a feeling back in Vol 3 when they first revealed the maidens that winter was the winter maiden at the time or would have become eventually. it just kinda made sense with the names of the maidens following which maiden season they were especially when they said the vernal was the spring maiden before the revel that it was Raven instead. I feel like if RT did a better job of setting up winter's character into becoming the winter maiden it wouldn't feel cheap. but the problem boils down to how much time they gave the writes which I don't think was enough

What you said about Winter replacing Jacque with IronWood was awesome. However, I refuse to believe that the writers for this show thought about that😂😂

If Nora became the winter maiden we would've had Infinity War Thor on the team

Every fanfic that I've written that sees through to Frya dying, I change who get's the power of the winter maiden. Penny dosn't need to be given magic powers to prove that she has a soul or is real or some other such thing. Even if she had no aura, her AI is advanced enough to recognize that she is "alive." Winter getting the power was stupid, and plot derived because they killed Penny, the only reason Penny didn't give it to Ruby was because they KO'd Ruby early so Penny probably thought she was dead. Even if she's been preparing herself for years to become the winter maiden, didn't Watts just give Cinder a speach about how it's not enough to strugle for power, and one has to acctually be worthy of it? Winter has only just turned her life around from being groomed by Ironwood most of her life, and is nowhere near ready for that kind of self governance. Of the people that it could have gone to, Weiss, because it would be such a fucking moment, if one of the main characters got the power, and on top of that it drags Winter's betrayal of Ironwood the the forefront of the story, because we've got a high ranking military officer betraying her supiriors for her family. Nora can work, but my take on Nora is that she's already more powerful than most people realize through an evolution of her semblance, that allows her to not only absorb electricity, but also *generate it.* (This one requires plot changes to V3, IE...) If Pyrrha survived Beacon, and held a rivalry gruge against Cinder, not only would we see a bunch of awsome back and forth banter from the two as they scale each other in fights, but by giving said rivals equal amounts of magic we can get those crazy Haven vault fights more often.

"Cinder is piss--" ...well, yes. "Cider is pissed" That too.

for some reason, i feel like the plan was originally to give nora the maiden powers, but the writers fell into the plot twist² hole: people were starting to theorize that nora would be the winter maiden even before penny got the powers, only for penny to become the maiden. then they build up penny and noras bond, making it almost obvious that if penny were to die, nora would get the power (because we cant make ruby a maiden, that would just make her more of a mary sue) but when penny dies they decided to loop back and give winter the powers to outplay the expected plot twist. its "game of thrones" levels of reach-around plot twists.

Another thing I’d add to your list of why Nora should have been the maiden narratively speaking would be because of Cinder’s backstory. Now obviously they wanted to focus on the elite vs poor idea and how she justifies it yadi yadi ya, basically explain that one line at the end of volume 7, but one thing I focused on was her neck scar. Clearly the point of Cinder’s origin was just to finally explain her origin for whatever reason and because of that all they needed to do was show it and why she acts this way. HOWEVER, they went out of their way to emphasize her neck scar that she hides and this make the concept of scars something we should take note of because of how unnecessary it was to the origin and who else is shown to have scars in this volume, Nora.

As member of the Nora fan club since day one this video had my love at the title.

Ice and lightning powers? Really rockin that Norse background in this re write, huh?

17:16 weird coincidence, but a thunderstorm just appeared outta nowhere once I reached this part of the video lol.

I think it's pretty sound in its simplicity, her last name is Valkyrie and the Maiden powers develop wing like looks on the eyes similar to a Valkyries wing's. A Valkyrie is also referred to as a Warrior Maiden. They hinted at a Nora backstory in Atlas. This is the type of stuff that should be asked at a panel but at the same time is pointless cause we know crwby will respond with 1. Time restrictions and 2. We went a different route. Nice video UOW

Never in my life will I watch this show but I will certainly watch your videos about it!

11:03 I appreciate the sentiment that penny carried Nora because she cared, but lets be real. They replaced the strong character (yang) with the other strong character (Nora) and then knocked her out. The only character physically strong enough to charry a whole person is Penny, the robot who could probably lift a truck if she wanted.

Consider this (my personal theory): at the end of the series, all four members of team RWBY will be the maidens. Winter will die and pass winter to Weiss, Raven will die and pass spring to Yang, when Cinder dies, she'll inadvertently pass fall to Ruby, and something will happen that will make Blake summer. If Nora becomes a maiden, it'll literally be a death sentence.

When you get right down to it, someone told me that Nora becoming the Winter Maiden would've bridged the gap between "Making one of the main characters a Maiden" and "Making one of the main characters too powerful due to being a Maiden" quite well, since Nora's not one of the main team. Personally, I always considered Team JNPR as secondary main characters. I also would've been interested in seeing Winter hit rock bottom after all that's happened and not getting the powers and I would've liked to see how her character develops from it. Also, I don't mind Penny becoming human, even if it was a little out of left field. Human Penny has a lot of potential as well as Winter Maiden Nora. RT wasted two perfect opportunities. It would be awesome if Penny developed her own Semblance that involved communicating and/or controlling machines. Finally, if Pietro does revive Penny, I don't want him to die right away. Let's say he'll now have only a few days to live that way he can spend his last days with Penny before his final hour. It could also teach Penny to not be so self-sacrificial as her father gave his life to revive her because he can't live without her and she should already know that. It's what a father would do. He can't keep reviving her without shortening his lifespan. She can't keep dying knowing she'll be rebuilt while slowly killing her father. Even if she died as a human, Pietro will probably revive her because she's everything to him and to everybody. Thus she'll learn to not keep throwing away her life so recklessly. Plus, Maidens die when they transfer the power anyway because they're bound to them. So the quick death was pointless.

bro I havent watched this show in so long now, and now that im finally trying to get back into it I realize they killed my favorite character, penny, like damn, the only reason I was trying to watch it again is because I heard they had brought her back

Nora with the Winter Maiden powers is like Fimblewinter, the Super-Winter (not the character) that preludes Ragnarok.

I didn't even consider Nora becoming the Winter Maiden as a possibility until watching this video and now I'm upset it didn't happen. Seriously though, you have a point. Isn't Ruby supposed to be the protagonist? What the heck did she even do these last two volumes? At this point, I'm just accepting the fact that there is no true protagonist. Teams RWBY and JNPR (minus the P, rest in peace Pyrrha) are the main characters.

I hope your new-found energy for all these RWBY videos never runs out!

So Nora should have gotten bestowed an identity... Rather than having to figure one out for herself? Also what was the buildup for her having any relevance to the winter maiden at all outside of having a similar hairstyles as Fria?

Two redheads killed by Gambold Shroud, that's savage.

THIS is why I'm going to do everything in my capabilities to create a spin off series about Nora and Ren BEFORE volume 1. What were their lives like? How did they survive? Where did Ren learn all those moves and skills? WHO IS NORA'S GRANDMOTHER!??

I think there's just way to much over thinking this for a lot of people. Winter has been prepared for the responsibility of being a Maiden for Years. She is significantly superior to any of the cast in experience, skill, power, intelligence, and maturity. If I had to pass an important role or job to someone else to replace me. I would choose who is more qualified, not my friend who can screw things up potentially, or "still in training".

I dropped the show after Monty died but just got back into in the last few months and the main problem is that Monty knew the plot and didn't write it out fully and now its being written by people changing the plot. Monty plan was for Winter being the maiden not the writers.

Seriously…..RT had it. They FLIPPING had it! This was so easy to do. The whole Volume clearly had Nora interact Penny with her the most, and all of the meaningful scene both had were with each other. But no…they had to have Jaune steal the show again. They literally had a chance to do something really cool with Nora while still having the chance to do the whole emotional Penny death, but they literally chose not to do it for….honestly, with how much potential Nora as a maiden had, and how much emotionally impactful they could have made this finale, there was no upside to the finale we got over this asides from that shot of Jaune with his sword over Penny as well as Miles’ acting. Why is Volume 8’s finale such a shitshow? Why could we have her thunder goddess be a Maiden? Nora- no, everyone deserved better than the Volume 8 finale. >_>

i liked the finale but i also liked your story, its like having two finales one canon and one headcanon which means more rwby content and theories for me :)) again loved the video

I really wish they did do it like this. It sounds so good and makes way more sense. I kinda wish the writer thought more about this, but I feel like it is 100% their fault it ended up like this.

I love your rewrites!